What are you watching? (television thread)

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
It's the only episode of that series I've seen, since I'd been told it was among the best it had to offer. Didn't really bother with the rest of it after that.
I'm trolling you. :iva:

I was gonna say, that'd be a tragic story... in TV viewing terms, anyway.:ganishka: like someone recommending the Adon filler episodes from the '97 Berserk anime.


Anyway, to answer the question, I'm not for or against the fly episode because I barely remember it (I think my takeaway was just what it revealed about Walter's feelings for Jesse, but there's a lot of episodes that contribute to that). It was just another episode to me, a bottle episode, and one that's very much reliant on your familiarity and relationship to the characters for it to make any sort of thematic sense. By that token, I almost can't think of a more unrepresentative episode of the show.:shrug:Anyway, I don't even think it's worth debating the merits of more than any other random episode of a serialized story, yet I still see people talking about it to this day, trying to connect elements from BCS (is it a ghost of a past lab inhabitant! =).
 
I agree, and yeah it's called a bottle episode basically they had planned out the entire season and the episode count was already set, and they realised they were over budget so they tried to created an episode with low production costs, to save money they set in primarily in the lab. And they only used Jesse and Walter, Vince talks about it in the commentary and their podcast. It's personally one of my favourites because it gives the characters time to breathe and no crazy plot stuff is happening, I just enjoy watching Jesse and Walter. if you like the dynamic between Jesse and Walter, if you love those characters you will definitely enjoy the episode. it harkens back to the early seasons with Walt and Jesse, which are some of my favourite moments in the series. But I will say yes it definitely does seem like filler because it doesn't progress the plot and when you feel like their relationship is changing it kinda goes back to how they were in the previous episode when Walt tells Jesse he knows he might be stealing the Meth at the end . You can go deep into the episode which I'm not going to do but the episode really shows Walters mental state at the time his obsessive nature due to his current circumstances and there are only a handful of times we see Walt truly say out loud what he's feeling, he often speaks the truth when medicated it seems, like the time with the second cell phone so I fully expected him to talk about what truly happened with Jane but I'm so glad he didn't because it would have completely changed the show at that point. And yeah Griffith I believe I saw a video of someone making the connection between the detective talking on the phone in Better call Saul, he's talking about a possum it's most likely an Easter egg about the possum Jesse's mentions in his story, so the detective was talking to Jesse's aunt

I'm trolling you. :iva:
I love how you still haven't seen the show yet and I'm guessing you haven't read Vagabond either? It was a running gag in the early podcasts haha. Also no posting spoiler clips @Lawliet there is still a chance Aazealh might watch it!
 
I've actually started the sopranos, I've seen on the forum people talking about it and I've seen online it being compared to breaking bad and that it's one of the best shows of all time. I've known about it for years but heard the ending was really bad so it turned me off. I'm on episode 5 of season 1 and it's okay I guess but it's not really grabbing me, I actually fell asleep during episode 4 and I had to rewatch it. I know you have to warm up to the characters and whatnot but I'm not sure I'll continue it, maybe I'll see after season one. I understand the show was known for having the first anti hero protagonist on TV or something but the main guy just seems like a douche, and some of the other characters are just plain annoying to me
 
I love how you still haven't seen the show yet and I'm guessing you haven't read Vagabond either? It was a running gag in the early podcasts haha. Also no posting spoiler clips @Lawliet there is still a chance Aazealh might watch it!

Yeah, my bad. Sorry Aaz!

By the way, I think Aaz didn't read Berserk either. All that stuff he posts about it is by another user, also called @Aazealh. Don't believe the lies!
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
I love how you still haven't seen the show yet and I'm guessing you haven't read Vagabond either? It was a running gag in the early podcasts haha.

That's right. I gotta watch The Wire first, like I promised Walter. I'll start with season 2 since I heard it's the best one and then I'll see if I watch the rest. :troll:

I did read something like 7 volumes of Vagabond, by the way, but it didn't really hook me. :shrug:

Also no posting spoiler clips @Lawliet there is still a chance Aazealh might watch it!

Don't tell me that he dies at the end!! :isidro:
 
Aaz, please I can't laugh that much my kid's sleeping! :ganishka:
Anyway, what are you guys gonna watch now that BCS has ended? I don't really know where to go from here. It's monday soon and I ain't got nothing to watch anymore. :sad:
 

Walter

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Staff member
Aaz, please I can't laugh that much my kid's sleeping! :ganishka:
Anyway, what are you guys gonna watch now that BCS has ended? I don't really know where to go from here. It's monday soon and I ain't got nothing to watch anymore. :sad:
I’m rewatching The Wire. Finished We Own This City. Ehh… Preachy.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I've actually started the sopranos, I've seen on the forum people talking about it and I've seen online it being compared to breaking bad and that it's one of the best shows of all time. I've known about it for years but heard the ending was really bad so it turned me off.

It's funny hearing a different generation talking about The Sopranos like, "this old, supposedly good show" when it was ubiquitous when I was growing up and all you ever heard was it was the best show ever. I actually do think it's better than Breaking Bad, The Wire, etc, just the best thematic writing and characterization of them all, and I didn't always until I went back and rewatched it all a few years ago. Even the much maligned ending has enjoyed some revisionist love.

I'm not sure I'll continue it, maybe I'll see after season one. I understand the show was known for having the first anti hero protagonist on TV or something but the main guy just seems like a douche, and some of the other characters are just plain annoying to me

"The main guy." :ganishka: Tony fuckin' Soprano! I would definitely recommend you at least give it a try through season 1 and if you're on the fence see if season 2 grabs you.

That's right. I gotta watch The Wire first, like I promised Walter. I'll start with season 2 since I heard it's the best one and then I'll see if I watch the rest. :troll:

Really, I thought season 1 of The Wire was the best and the later seasons, while having deeper themes, were all kind of flawed. But I guess no more than all these shows. My issue with the The Wire is it gets credit for being more realistic while containing just as many theatrical, over- the-top cartoon or comicbook characters and moments as any of these, but the extra layer of authentic detail otherwise makes it clash even more to me. Like, I get that the Breaking Bad world is a complete fantasy, whereas I feel like The Wire and David Simon purport to be more.

I did read something like 7 volumes of Vagabond, by the way, but it didn't really hook me. :shrug:

Ironically, I feel like the series really starts to transcend with the conclusion of the Inshun arc, which I think takes place prominently in volume 7.:ganishka:

Actually, it's really after volume 10 that Musashi, and therefore the book, goes up another level. His musha shugyō before the Kojiro arc, that arc, and the return to Kyoto through its culmination are all fantastic.

Don't tell me that he dies at the end!! :isidro:


Anyway, what are you guys gonna watch now that BCS has ended? I don't really know where to go from here. It's monday soon and I ain't got nothing to watch anymore. :sad:

I've already got people trying to talk to me about House of the Dragon. *sigh*

I've heard The Bear is supposed to be good and had it recommended, but again, everything is supposed to be good.:shrug:

I’m rewatching The Wire. Finished We Own This City. Ehh… Preachy.

That's it! That's the uncomfortable feeling I get from David Simon that I couldn't quite nail down earlier in this post. To put a now on everything and paraphrase Vagabond, his writing is like "swordsmanship that purports to be proper swordsmanship."
 

Aazealh

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Staff member
Ironically, I feel like the series really starts to transcend with the conclusion of the Inshun arc, which I think takes place prominently in volume 7.:ganishka:

Actually, it's really after volume 10 that Musashi, and therefore the book, goes up another level. His musha shugyō before the Kojiro arc, that arc, and the return to Ky

I'll buy the rest and get through it, I'm just waiting for Inoue to finish it first so I can read it in one go. :griffnotevil:
 

Walter

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Staff member
My issue with the The Wire is it gets credit for being more realistic while containing just as many theatrical, over- the-top cartoon or comicbook characters and moments as any of these, but the extra layer of authentic detail otherwise makes it clash even more to me. Like, I get that the Breaking Bad world is a complete fantasy, whereas I feel like The Wire and David Simon purport to be more.

The Wire is a story told through theatrics that facilitate drama. But I don't think anything is so bombastic as to be unbelievable. Because the basis for everything is grounded in real life. Most of the key characters have real-life counterparts (Omar, Stringer Bell, Avon, Bunk, and a few others are all based on real people. Like Carcetti, for whom Martin O'Malley was the basis). But beyond all of that, it reflects our world in a way that most other shows don't bother with. The real story is the city. And that's bigger and more interesting than the plot in each season because it's about real institutions. And their flaws are accurately (if exaggeratedly) conveyed through the drama.

I think everyone can watch it and learn something. And sure, maybe that approach gets in the way of storytelling when placed alongside a more pure drama, but that's fine with me.


That's it! That's the uncomfortable feeling I get from David Simon that I couldn't quite nail down earlier in this post. To put a now on everything and paraphrase Vagabond, his writing is like "swordsmanship that purports to be proper swordsmanship."

In my personal experience, that brand of offputting preachiness is limited to We Own This City. There's a very clear right and wrong that's being messaged in that show by characters who are more or less flawless in their moral platform, whereas in The Wire, there's no morality to be grasped for. Everyone is equally mired and subjugated by bureaucracy. They're very different shows, despite the setting and the teams involved.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
JimI'll buy the rest and get through it, I'm just waiting for Inoue to finish it first so I can read it in one go. :griffnotevil:

Nice. Though, technically, he is finished now.:carcus:

But I don't think anything is so bombastic as to be unbelievable. Because the basis for everything is grounded in real life.

Well, that's the Catch 22, the more grounded foundation makes the more fantastical occurances jump out, or I'm looking for them, more than even on a lesser show. I'm admittedly holding it to a higher standard (like, IS THIS the best show?), but it's also sold on the brand of its realism, which I definitely think is true, but more in the setup than the payoffs. Basically, I think it takes as many dramatic liberties as any show, and the notion it's actually above all that and everything is TRUE TO LIFE is partly a sell. But to its credit, unlike most other shows that's just the tip of the iceberg to the depth under the surface.

Maybe if Simon really showed the extent of precisely how corrupt these systems are as factually as possible, basically like a documentary, it could actually be twice as bad, but half as interesting, and certainly less accessible and entertaining, so yeah, you still get the prestige TV drama equivalent since that's what it is.

That notion reminds me of something that happened with Winning Time, the 80s Lakers HBO show, where Jerry West sued because the show inaccurately portrayed him as a basketball maniac by having him yell, freak out, break stuff and even drink on the job, all of which he apparently didn't do. But he WAS a basketball maniac, he couldn't even watch the games he'd get so worked up, and after the recruitment and negotiations to bring Shaq to the Lakers in the 90s he had to check into a hospital for three days for exhaustion. He was apparently like this all the time and a workaholic. The show didn't accurately portray his behavior, but it DID accurately portray his complete basketball mania in a way conducive to television. Basically, using lies to tell the truth about something; theatrics and drama as you said initially. The lawyers for HBO should point out there's another scene where a coach is such an offensive genius he's portrayed as levitating at his desk while drawing up Xs and Os that fly off the pages and orbit around him; this didn't literally happen either but gets the point across. =)

I think everyone can watch it and learn something. And sure, maybe that approach gets in the way of storytelling when placed alongside a more pure drama, but that's fine with me.

I definitely agree with the first part, it's more detailed and informational than any of its peers, but again, I also think it engaged in plenty of pure dramatic license. My skepticism with the show is more perception-wise, with it being touted sort of like transcending television rather than being "merely" transcendent television. The latter isn't up for debate, I just think it's sillier at times than we like to admit in the same way all these great shows can be.

In my personal experience, that brand of offputting preachiness is limited to We Own This City. There's a very clear right and wrong that's being messaged in that show by characters who are more or less flawless in their moral platform, whereas in The Wire, there's no morality to be grasped for. Everyone is equally mired and subjugated by bureaucracy. They're very different shows, despite the setting and the teams involved.

I certainly felt the sort of objective amorality in the first season where you're seeing the good and the bad effects of the "good" guys as well as the bad, and that continues for the shows entire run, but, if not already in season 2 with some of the explicit class stuff, once we're touring Hamsterdam, the school system and integrity in crime journalism, it's hard not to feel like the show was telling me how to feel about all this. Then again, it might have just been showing me objectively horrible things fairly and not glossing over it, or over-appreciating the cleverness of, say, hiding bodies in project walls (I haven't watched it in years).

Anyway, I'm writing a lot of words just to say I think it may very well be the best show, but its superior, and somewhat false, "realer than the other shows" reputation causes me to withhold my outright love. I'd rather give it to the undisputed best anti-hero in TV history... Walter Soprano! =)

Actually the first season was my favorite lol

I often find I like the first season of dramas the best because, even if they're a bit clunky, awkward or not rounded into shape yet, they're also usually the most structurally sound, grounded and realistic because they're still doing the work to establish everything believably, which will later be capitalized on for doing the most outlandish things dramatically possible. This holds true for me with The Sopranos, Breaking Bad (1+2, a writers strike cut 1 short), and The Wire. Granted, all the best YouTube clips are from the later seasons!

For comedy, seasons 2-3 is where they usually hit their stride and I firmly believe it's important to put out as much material as possible while in that groove. Comedy or drama, you're not going to be doing your best work after season 6 no matter how much effort you put into it, and it'll be a lot of effort just to keep it interesting at that point.
 
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On the subject of the Wire, didn't the real life Omar actually jumped from a balcony a floor higher than the one portrayed in the show? to me that's just bonkers, one time when I was younger, I jumped from a single story house to an old bed and that still hurt like mad the next day... Parakour is not for me! To me, the series was not that realistic per se (at least in street events, like shootings and so are too fantastical), but one thing I really liked is how most things felt to be going in a clear direction... like it was all determined to happen... (of course it was, given it was a show, lol, but sometimes, it deceived me to believe it was all based on a true story) I wonder if that was Simon's intentions... procedural aspects of real life seemed on point, though, I'm not American, but seeing Cutty going all places to start his business is probably relatable to any single jurisdiction all over the world (at least to me!)

I'll buy the rest and get through it, I'm just waiting for Inoue to finish it first so I can read it in one go. :griffnotevil:
Suspicious... :azan:
 
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Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
On the subject of the Wire, didn't the real life Omar actually jumped from a balcony a floor higher than the one portrayed in the show? to me that's just bonkers

You've just tapped into my fear that everything I think is an example of the show taking dramatic license, like this or Brother Mouzone, is actually real or toned down because otherwise "nobody would believe it!" :ganishka:

but one thing I really liked is how most things felt to be going in a clear direction... like it was all determined to happen... (of course it was, given it was a show, lol, but sometimes, it deceived me to believe it was all based on a true story) I wonder if that was Simon's intentions...

That's something I've also always especially liked about Berserk and to a lesser degree Vince Gilligan's shows; everything is usually very intentionally and methodically laid out so despite it going in surprising directions it always makes sense after the fact. This would be a time to use the phrase "feels earned" but I hate that.

procedural aspects of real life seemed on point, though

More than that, where I really feel like the show stands alone is in the factual groundwork and detail laid into the foundation for everything that happens, whether it's based on something real or is drama for the show. This is where it literally is the most realistic show ever made, and I can only currently compare it to BCS, but that's sort of an "as needed", like they decide whatever they want to do and research the hell out of it for that episode or scene, whereas on The Wire you get the sense they're cutting more information they're sitting on than you'll otherwise learn outside of the show (i.e. they've forgotten more than we'll ever know).
 
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I've actually started the sopranos, I've seen on the forum people talking about it and I've seen online it being compared to breaking bad and that it's one of the best shows of all time. I've known about it for years but heard the ending was really bad so it turned me off. I'm on episode 5 of season 1 and it's okay I guess but it's not really grabbing me, I actually fell asleep during episode 4 and I had to rewatch it. I know you have to warm up to the characters and whatnot but I'm not sure I'll continue it, maybe I'll see after season one. I understand the show was known for having the first anti hero protagonist on TV or something but the main guy just seems like a douche, and some of the other characters are just plain annoying to me

The sopranos is the best TV show ever in my opinion. Extremely rewatchable, so many little nuisances and details. The exploration of Tony Soprano's character is amazingly done. I suppose I just love stories that explore the inner psyche of characters. If all you think is "douche" when you see Tony, I don't think you understand the show and its just probably not for you.
 

Walter

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If all you think is "douche" when you see Tony, I don't think you understand the show and its just probably not for you.
He is a pretty terrible person, though. Multi-faceted? Sure. A Suburban-driving suburban monster? Absolutely. I've noticed that some younger viewers tend to squeak that little detail out of their fascination with The Sopranos. A guy who worked for me once listed both Tony and Don Draper (Mad Men) as "inspirational" to him.
 
Absolutely. I've noticed that some younger viewers tend to squeak that little detail out of their fascination with The Sopranos. A guy who worked for me once listed both Tony and Don Draper (Mad Men) as "inspirational" to him.
I hear the same things about Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall Street).
 
Tony IS a douche, though. Another great character a là Griffith, but one I will never not despise as the show progressed, if I had a bad opinion of him since the start, I would've probably dropped the show. Fortunately, the show is not exactly a mob drama only, it's focused on a lot of things, which is great. But no, Tony is still an asshole to me as a Capo and as the pilot Boss too, it's just greatly sugar coated? given he's depressed.
 
Never watched the Sopranos really all that much, but I watched a YouTube upload called “all the kills in Sopranos” recently and it was a 45 minute highlight video. :serpico:
 

guuuuuuuuts

Excited for the next chapter!
I recently finished Better Call Saul and absolutely loved it. As a spin of Breaking Bad, not my favorite show, I wasn't sure... but I love how Vince Gilligan stages scenes. His montages are so fantastic, basically story driven music videos.
It is unbelievable how much solid content could be put together from the ashes of another TV show, which basically had a complete ending already.
Only caveat is taking over a full season to establish characters and build momentum. I can see the X-Files influence. At first you see a lot of everyday moments where a character is dealing with a parking ticket or similar. Almost a Seinfeld-like Sitcom. These moments become covers and lies within an ever growing criminal conspiracy to expand New Mexico's drug trade. Gripping and fully recommended if you want excellent writing, deep characters and top notch camera work.
 
I don’t know if someone mentioned this already but Netflix is bringing the 97’ Berserk anime to the platform along with many other great series.

https://otakuusamagazine.com/netflix-cuts-nippon-tv-deal-to-add-1997-berserk-monster-and-more-anime/
Wow this could give Berserk a lot more attention which is great, and it will give people a chance to see the original series. Personally I have the Blu-ray's so it doesn't really matter to me. Hajime no ippo and Monster too? They are both really great series that deserve recognition especially Monster, that anime is notoriously hard to find, I can definitely say I didn't watch it legally, but to compensate I bought the entire manga collection shortly after I finished it.
 
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