Would Casca be able to handle the branded life?

[Okin]

Look, Casca's mind snapped from what happened. It's a coping mechanism of the human body. It clearly means Casca couldn't make the decisions she would have to make after what happened to her. She didn't lose her mind from the rape, but from the mental trauma and the stress of accepting what was happened.

For Casca to remain mentally stable after that she would have to have a completely different personality all together. I would expect revenge or passive acceptance of reality from someone who has had a less traumatic life and cries less.

Basically, if she comes to, she can't be her bitchy old self, because it was that personality that is broken, dribbling idiot right now. She has to change dramatically to first accept the experience in the eclipse, let alone, join Guts in fighting apostles. I'm suprised Casca doesn't run just at the sight of monsters now. Guess she doesn't relate them to sex in her current state, so that's how she survives.

 

[SimplyEd]

Look, Casca's mind snapped from what happened. It's a coping mechanism of the human body. It clearly means Casca couldn't make the decisions she would have to make after what happened to her. She didn't lose her mind from the rape, but from the mental trauma and the stress of accepting what was happened.

Ah yes, causality. Really though, it would be very bothersome to see a person being completely unaffected by what has happened during the eclipse. Guts seems to have dealt with it much better than Casca but that's really just superficial. He's really deeply scarred on the inside..and the outside, mind you.
Right now, his sanity basically hangs on a very thin line of having to protect his remaining friends and killing all those vile monsters, with Neo-Griff being the most prominent one. It just means that he's capable to live on just like that while Casca was completely overwhelmed, which is completely understandable imho.
This trauma is basically a culmination of all those negative events, with the rape having a pretty deep impact after all.

For Casca to remain mentally stable after that she would have to have a completely different personality all together. I would expect revenge or passive acceptance of reality from someone who has had a less traumatic life and cries less.

Well, for all intents and purposes, she was as tough as on could get. Silent acceptance? No sorry, i don't even think that anybody could do so when faced with such horrible circumstances. As i said, those that managed to even do so much as survive an eclipse are usually deeply affected or even borderline insane.
When you take Guts as reference material then yes, revenge and a protective streak in your actions would be the fuel to keep on living. At some point, those people will have to cope with what has happened but they will never truly leave anything of it behind.

Basically, if she comes to, she can't be her bitchy old self, because it was that personality that is broken, dribbling idiot right now. She has to change dramatically to first accept the experience in the eclipse, let alone, join Guts in fighting apostles. I'm suprised Casca doesn't run just at the sight of monsters now. Guess she doesn't relate them to sex in her current state, so that's how she survives.

Personally, i don't even perceive her as "bitchy" that much. She's a tough woman in an even tougher world surrounded by..difficult men and unfortunate women.^^
Apart from that, i would like to think that once she regains her former personality she'd not loose herself again as soon as she remembers all those things from the past. So, she really has very few options. She would either join Guts' quest for revenge or probably stay behind to contemplate her situation. I don't even want to think up a scenario where she would join up with Neo-Griff..but that's just me.
Anyway, i already posted what i'd like to see happening for Casca. Getting rid of Neo-Griff would really be a big step into drawing a closing line to her sad past.

 

[Lithrael]

I'm suprised Casca doesn't run just at the sight of monsters now. Guess she doesn't relate them to sex in her current state, so that's how she survives.

I basically agree with the gist of what you said, except that part. She just doesn't really connect with anything at all most of the time. However, we're blatantly shown her flashing back to the eclipse several times when she's being surrounded by enemies, and her reaction seems to be that she freezes up, caught in that memory. If something else shows up to defend her, like mutantmoonbaby, she gets distracted - but if the attack actually goes ahead and she's in a position to do something about it - don't forget the one time she slaughtered those bandits.

 

[Griffith]

Tying this back to the previous point and the importance of Griffith to her; I don't think it was the monsters that blew her mind, I think it was Griffith raping her. It's been commented on before that her insane state doesn't seem to totally protect her from memories of the Eclipse, but what's one memory we've never seen her have or deal with? Something that's inexplicably missing or, shall we say... blocked out? =)

And Miura's not just avoiding the scene, because that's EXACTLY what Guts recalls most. Interesting.

 

[Manji]

I personally don't know what to think of Casca's [potential] return to sanity. Dealing with the brand etcetera seem kind of twenty twenty hindsight. What use will she be? None, sans her attachment to the group/Guts. She was a fairly good female warrior under the hawks, and even with the sacrifices of Judeau and Pippin, she wasn't much more than "food" to the apostles. So as to how she can just snap back to as she once was and just tag along with the group, thats something I'm waiting to see what Miura has in store because I don't see any viable option other than a drastic change. She has to, because Guts himself, for both better and worse, has made quite a few drastic changes since the Eclipse, and obviously Casca is going to have to find her own way as well to "deal".

I don't know, maybe join/form a different mercenary band and fight alongside/against the new Hawks. I seriously have no idea.

 

[Griffith]

I personally don't know what to think of Casca's[potential] return to sanity.

Agreed, so why did your post keep going? =)


Also, speaking of the sharpness of hindsight, Casca's fighting prowess sure is getting shat on. She wasn't just a "fairly good female warrior under the hawks", she was described as second only to Griffith in terms of fighting ability, and showed it a time or two if anyone cares to remember. And no more than 10 volumes ago, she killed three armed rapists, twice her size, that had her cornered, pinned, naked, and unarmed, while out of her mind to boot.

She was the the only one besides Guts to actually slay an Apostle at the Eclipse, I think she could handle spooky ghosts if she had to. Now I'm not saying she definitely will, but so far her dismissal by people has been baseless and ignorant.

 

[Manji]

Agreed, so why did your post keep going? =)

Difference between not knowing what will actually happen and speculation, let alone you missing quite a few key points in what I said.

Also, speaking of the sharpness of hindsight, Casca's fighting prowess sure is getting shat on. She wasn't just a "fairly good female warrior under the hawks", she was described as second only to Griffith in terms of fighting ability, and showed it a time or two if anyone cares to remember. And no more than 10 volumes ago, she killed three armed rapists, twice her size, that had her cornered, pinned, naked, and unarmed, while out of her mind to boot.

She did slay an apostle during the Eclipse. Yes, back in her "younger" days when Guts was still fresh blood, she was "second best" to Griffith, something she didn't stay as forever. Also, imo, Casca never got much better than where she was at that point, one plus apostle killing or not, you're still not being much countering to the fact she can't simply go back to "being the old Casca" without some type of adaptation or new method of dealing with apostles much in the nature of Serpico and the like. Guts is relying on the Berserk armor, and I suggested she simply can't come back as "Casca" and be of any battle use to the party. But of course Griffith, we all know all she needs is her own Dragon Slayer, and Guts can retire!

 

[Griffith]

Difference between not knowing what will actually happen and speculation, let alone you missing quite a few key points in what I said.

Well, I wasn't just responding to you, I was making a general point to those under the impression that Casca can somehow only be useless if/when she regains her sanity, and I don't count not being able to fight Zodd, Grunbeld, or Griffith as disqualifiers, as some have suggested. Your post was simply the last to touch on it and made a good segue, aside from that, there was nothing else you said I cared to respond to.

Anyway, let alone what will happen, you still haven't addressed what HAS happened, which you continue to ignore or rationalize as it's convenient; so, forgive me for not taking your speculation too seriously when you're basically pushing an unsubstantiated opinion. Getting defensive about it won't change that, either.

She did slay an apostle during the Eclipse.

Thanks for acknowledging that at least. She's also the only regular human besides Guts to do so.

Yes, back in her "younger" days when Guts was still fresh blood, she was "second best" to Griffith, something she didn't stay as forever.

Yeah, then she was third, behind Guts; quite a downgrade being only the next best fighter after him. =)

Also, imo, Casca never got much better than where she was at that point

A baseless and unsubstantiated opinion. Not a logical conclusion either considering she spent years afterward maturing physically and becoming more experienced in battles. She was certainly more capable when she fought Silat, who's defeated everyone else we've seen him fight, besides Guts, almost instantly.

one plus apostle killing or not, you're still not being much countering to the fact she can't simply go back to "being the old Casca" without some type of adaptation or new method of dealing with apostles much in the nature of Serpico and the like.

I never said she would, I'm simply saying that there's no reason to assume with any certainty that she'd be useless otherwise. I'm not saying it can't be, but theres' nothing to suggest that should be anyone's best guess, or our assumption looking forward, and certainly no reason to rule out the alternative; on the contrary, her latent ability has already been foreshadowed a couple of times during her madness. Furthermore, one Apostle is one more slain by her than any other normal person in the series we've seen, again, besides Guts. It's just kind of ironic, when questioning her ability to deal with Apostles, to compare her to others who haven't successfully fought or killed any themselves, magic or no magic. The gang hasn't been that USEFUL against Apostles to begin with, and they fight as a unit anyway (where Guts does that sort of heavy lifting), so if she's still got some of her old stuff as has been hinted at, there's no reason to assume she'd be any more useless than some of the others already fighting in the group (and since she's theoretically getting cured on an island full of magic users if anywhere, she'd likely have access to enchanted items at that time). In any case, whatever the future holds for her, she's not even getting due credit for her original ability here.

You guys are almost as bad as Adon; she did NOT sleep her way up the ranks!

Guts is relying on the Berserk armor, and I suggested she simply can't come back as "Casca" and be of any battle use to the party. But of course Griffith, we all know all she needs is her own Dragon Slayer, and Guts can retire!

And I just suggested why you shouldn't assume she can't. But of course Manji, we all know all she needs to do is join/form a different mercenary group, and Guts can retire, perhaps to form a new tailor's shop in honor of Gaston! =)

 

[SimplyEd]

Hmmm, pretty hot in here, no? The heat of passion, no doubt!

In any case, yes, Casca is definately not useless in her current predicament. Never thought so to begin with.
Still though, as it stands, i'm rather positive that she will be cured in the future, which will eventually support her outstanding skills much better. She hasn't lost any of her sharpness, as was mentioned already. So i guess that many people just want to see the old Casca again, for whatever reason that may be so.
I'm content with the present situation anyway.

 

[Griffith]

Hmmm, pretty hot in here, no? The heat of passion, no doubt!

I think it's just our usual hot air blowing.

 

[Manji]

GNM spoketh about something

Saving space but indicating a reply towards you, again, perhaps my wording, you're taking things in a very wrong way.
I'm not saying Casca is "useless" in the sense of should she come back to "sanity" and generally not knowing at what point from there she can go (Which you inflated into the hot air balloon which shows your undying passion! BUT FOR WHO!?). You seem to take everything I said about Casca as a personal insult to her or being the casting couch for the Hawks. My point was that in general, she didn't progress along any of the lines like Guts did, and has had no room to "grow" post Eclipse (the statement, "she never got better after that point", I'm taking you assumed you meant during the hawks, my mistake)

Maybe her "prowess" is recessive and forever instinctual as the "killing three rapists" implies, none the less, with an unknown amount of time having passed since, I just don't see Casca being INSTANTLY transformed into an even better warrior than what she was in the Hawks. Maybe you can and if so I guess I see your point, or something. Mine was she has no means to "Deal" with the Brand without a massive drastic change. I don't see "regular Casca" coming back without some new adaptation for her "current" situation. If you're in agreement or acknowledgment of that I don't really see what your problem was with my post other than misunderstandings, but if you think I'm wrong more or less well, I don't think Black Swordswoman has an incredibly bad wring to it. Ok it does, maybe Twilight Valkyrie or something?

I see mini series potential!

 

[Griffith]

Saving space but indicating a reply towards you, again, perhaps my wording, you're taking things in a very wrong way.
I'm not saying Casca is "useless" in the sense of should she come back to "sanity" and generally not knowing at what point from there she can go (Which you inflated into the hot air balloon which shows your undying passion! BUT FOR WHO!?). You seem to take everything I said about Casca as a personal insult to her or being the casting couch for the Hawks. My point was that in general, she didn't progress along any of the lines like Guts did, and has had no room to "grow" post Eclipse (the statement, "she never got better after that point", I'm taking you assumed you meant during the hawks, my mistake)

I wasn't bothered by perceived slights to Casca, just casual speculation that seemed rigid or sloppy in places, perhaps because of confusing language as you say. For example, the "different mercenary group" idea could sure use some explaining as to how the logistics of doing something like that, if even possible, isn't contradictory to her effectively adjusting to the branded life.

Maybe her "prowess" is recessive and forever instinctual as the "killing three rapists" implies, none the less, with an unknown amount of time having passed since, I just don't see Casca being INSTANTLY transformed into an even better warrior than what she was in the Hawks. Maybe you can and if so I guess I see your point, or something.

Yes, but you're taking my point to an unreasonable extreme. I didn't say she'd be better than she was in the Hawks, or that she has to be, just that, based on the simple axiom that if she can be in the group as is now she can be in the group cured, her skill set would make her a helpful addition (which I'd think would go without saying if not for posts in this thread to the contrary). I've already written a ton explaining my position and how it works in detail above, and tried not to use extreme language like will or can't. It's not an unreasonable or even very strong stance to take, just like your point that she'll have to adjust.

Mine was she has no means to "Deal" with the Brand without a massive drastic change. I don't see "regular Casca" coming back without some new adaptation for her "current" situation. If you're in agreement or acknowledgment of that I don't really see what your problem was with my post other than misunderstandings, but if you think I'm wrong more or less well, I don't think Black Swordswoman has an incredibly bad wring to it. Ok it does, maybe Twilight Valkyrie or something?

I see mini series potential!

Well, the "change" or "adjustment" topic is the one I didn't care to respond to because I feel it goes without saying; that's why I didn't quote it. Aside from the harmless "then why'd the post continue?" joke, I was making a general point that only touched on an aspect of your post; Casca's prognosis for return to form and her ability in general, using a line from you as the springboard (which probably confused and engaged you). But you quoted that general statement and seemingly responded to it specifically, so I guess that's where the mutual confusion started if you really only meant to clarify the previous point you thought I was misconstruing, whereas I thought you were arguing mine.

 

[Manji]

For example, the "different mercenary group" idea could sure use some explaining as to how the logistics of doing something like that, if even possible, isn't contradictory to her effectively adjusting to the branded life.

Like Twilight Valkryie, a joke, and not an intended plot theory. As for the rest, yes it was just a general misunderstanding in regards to what was being applied on. Again, I'm definitely a "supporter" of Casca's prowess, but all the same the only thing I stated in particular (which if I understand, you had no issue with) was that what she "was" is going to have to get a major adaptation. The only point I think we differ on is just a general sense of Casca's place post-Eclipse.

My main point, if anything to contrast yours [at best], is basically just the "gap" of how we measure the Casca of the Hawks and what suffices as the "norm" now. "Nosferatu Zodd" was considered a wartime legend/myth, and now at which point we've reached a massive escalation since the days of yore, not to undermine of course. While Casca had her share with Wyald/eclipse, I still think she has "a lot of catching up to do" other than just bringing her Hawk talents over. Generally, Guts' "transformation" into the "Black Swordsman" was simply not enough to suffice with the brand (given all things considered in his "solo" act).

It's not a saying that Casca would be worthless (Again, Serpico, Isidro and Farnese...somewhat..) really didn't need the latter "enhancements" to prove valuable at key moments, let alone someone like Roderick proving his worth in different ways. Its just I feel as stated already she needs more than just her sanity back to "handle" the brand.

 

[DetriusXii]

But of course Griffith, we all know all she needs is her own Dragon Slayer, and Guts can retire!

Guts can her train her so she could reach her living-in-the-interstice athletic potential. And she can always make use of the silver dagger that Farnese possesses. It's not like Farnese will make use of it in the foreseeable future.

 

[Griffith]

Like Twilight Valkryie, a joke, and not an intended plot theory.

Whew, don't blame me though, after years of this, I can't take anything for granted. =)

As for the rest, yes it was just a general misunderstanding in regards to what was being applied on. Again, I'm definitely a "supporter" of Casca's prowess, but all the same the only thing I stated in particular (which if I understand, you had no issue with) was that what she "was" is going to have to get a major adaptation. The only point I think we differ on is just a general sense of Casca's place post-Eclipse.

I'm not even sure we differ so much there, I guess it depends on what you mean by her place post-Eclipse (as in, until she's cured and, theoretically, a new phase begins, or until the end of the series). I hope her role since the Eclipse doesn't reflect Miura really having little further use for her, and like to think she's going to reclaim her place as an important character (be reborn like Griffith in a sense). I have to believe the latter because of how riveting the possibilities are poised to be.

My main point, if anything to contrast yours [at best], is basically just the "gap" of how we measure the Casca of the Hawks and what suffices as the "norm" now. "Nosferatu Zodd" was considered a wartime legend/myth, and now at which point we've reached a massive escalation since the days of yore, not to undermine of course. While Casca had her share with Wyald/eclipse, I still think she has "a lot of catching up to do" other than just bringing her Hawk talents over. Generally, Guts' "transformation" into the "Black Swordsman" was simply not enough to suffice with the brand (given all things considered in his "solo" act).

It's not a saying that Casca would be worthless (Again, Serpico, Isidro and Farnese...somewhat..) really didn't need the latter "enhancements" to prove valuable at key moments, let alone someone like Roderick proving his worth in different ways. Its just I feel as stated already she needs more than just her sanity back to "handle" the brand.

I guess where I'd disagree there is that she'll likely be going through quite a different adjustment because while Guts went at it alone, she has the protection and guidance of the group to insulate her if she wants/needs it. It's a choice and support system like Guts never had. But in that and every regard, I still think her biggest hurdle, and what I'm most interested in seeing, is mental. How she copes with the reality of what drove her mad, rather than dealing with it, in the first place. If, she does in fact remember it after; would sure suck for Guts if the last thing she remembers is pre-Eclipse or she's like a new person.

Man, now I can't wait!

 

[Okin]

FINE! Griffith and Manjii love to agree! And your quotes didn't help me read through that hell!

My point was just that whatever Casca we see when/if she gets her mind back, it will be a different, changed person. Casca's physcially ability hasn't diminshed seriosuly at least. Remember that time she jumped off a cliff (with a little help from Isidro), or that time with the 3 soldiers. Maybe she will dislike violence when she gets her mind back though?

What if Casca chooses to remain as she is? What if its the only way she can live with what happened?

 

[KazigluBey]

Well seeing as Casca has repressed those experiences, in order to want to remain as she is she would have to be aware of what happened to her, and thus we have quite a conundrum. If someone repressed these experiences/memories it wouldn't make sense that they could know what they were at the same time, it's a bit of a contradiction no? Basically she'd have to start having flashbacks and start to regain her memory on her own, which would defeat the purpose of the trip to Elfhelm, at least in part. So I guess she could be given a glimpse of what happened and then decide whether or not she wanted to know the rest or just block it all out. This of course is in the hands of the elves, and whatever their powers allow them to accomplish.

And then we have Skullknight's saying of what Guts and Casca want might not be one in the same. Maybe the ball is in Gut's court when it comes to whether Casca regains her memories or whether she remains the same. If Guts wants her memories restored then she will (but to what extent we don't know) experience some trauma. Then again if he lets her stay how she is he'll never know the woman he loved the way he once did. I'd hate to be in his shoes.

 

[Scorpio]

Guts can her train her so she could reach her living-in-the-interstice athletic potential. And she can always make use of the silver dagger that Farnese possesses. It's not like Farnese will make use of it in the foreseeable future.

Actually, this touches on one of the things I'm most curious about (well, besides this huge Casca debate). Farnese is already making huge strides in the use of magic, so I'm pretty excited to see how she plays out her new role as a supporting spellcaster of sorts once she is free from taking care of Casca. And if Casca does join in the fray, those will be two influential forces assisting Guts in his endeavors.

 

[Tennyo_night_elf]

I would hate to be Guts shoes too if I were in that kind of situation. Though I do believe that Casca, imo, wants to be normal, deep within herself. No one would want to be that way forever I think. The way she got to be this way I think was because of the sudden trauma of the event (plus all the shiz that happened before that; leading the fugitive band, being without Guts and Griff, saving Griff, being with Guts, choosing between the two, etc.) and that once the elves do their thing, she'll be able to remember the event and deal with it.

I'm not sure what Skully said about what she wants might not be what he (Guts) wants. Could mean her mind, could mean their kid, could mean Griff, could mean their relationship, or how to make a peanut better sandwich....imo, anyway.

But I do believe that Casca is strong enough that if she becomes normal and had all of her memories, I think she could handle branded life, maybe not well at first, though over time she would kick butt and be a great asset to Guts. I think it would be cool if became like a red mage, knowing how to fight and know a little magic on the side would be pretty interesting to see. Though would Farnese fit that role?

 

[Smith]

If that is what is going to happen, i think we should really celebrate. I mean its already almost 20 voume since we last saw caska talking! (in proper language)


Damn, can't imgaine for caska to be back again! That's just too great

 

[Tanma]

I think Casca will regain her sanity when she sees Griffith again, and it is possible to happen only in the last EPISODES.

 

[Walter]

I think Casca will regain her sanity when she sees Griffith again, and it is possible to happen only in the last EPISODES.

Huh? Why? She's seen him since the Eclipse, you know. Twice even, in Volumes 21-22. Maybe you could elaborate on your reasoning here, because you lost me.

 

[Tanma]

Huh? Why? She's seen him since the Eclipse, you know. Twice even, in Volumes 21-22. Maybe you could elaborate on your reasoning here, because you lost me.

You're right, she saw him directly in the cemetery of swords. And not only that, she touched him.

 

[KazigluBey]

Hill of swords.