Zodd = Gaeseric ?

[Mizar]

and maybe because some reason, he change to be two different thing~~~~ maybe zoddo was first apostle~~~ ::)

Or maybe Zodd was King Gaiseric's beast. ::)

 

[Adamh411]

After googling Gaiseric, he was a barbarian invader of Rome that established an empire. If Miura meant for Gaeseric's name to have any connotative significance in the world of Berserk, I'd say a marauding leader of barbarians is closer to what Zodd is than what Skullknight is.

 

[UrashimaSenpai]

Gaiseric beat his opponents both in politics and military.

Zodd is more of a one man army that wishes to kill everyone he sees.

Gaiseric is a dude that wants to erect an empire, you don't erect an empire without first having an army. Zodd would never be able to erect an empire because he would have killed all of them before they enrolled under his service. Why do you think SK didn't attack Gatsu, and rather, took him in for his potential to become an important ally in his fight against the God Hands?

 

[bastard_swordsman]

On a quick note, something buzzed into my head whilst reading this - the connections between Gaiseric and Zodd can further complicate the reasons for the 'rivalry' between the two. Then suddenly, I thought "hey, apostles have to sacrifice something dear to them - is it possible that skully was Zodd's "something dear"?' After all, this could explain the way they possess an almost friendly (or at least, not hateful) rivalry.

 

[Dirty Dog]

the architecture of Gaiseric's time resembled that of the classical roman/greek empires, so it is likely that Gaiseric would be wearing roman armor.
And, looking at Gaiseric's helmet, it looks as if his "hair" is actually a plume (common on roman helmets, search for "roman helmet" on google image search and you'll see), and not his actual hair. (and the skull would appear to be a faceguard that could be lifted)
(compare http://www.spirithalloween.com/images/spirit/products/processed/00175935.zoom.a.jpg to http://www.skullknight.net/spec/sk32.jpg )

the helmet does look quite a bit like Zodd's apostle form, but I think that it's just supposed to be a lion (a symbol of kingship?), mainly because there are lions drawn on his armor (look at the breastplate on the link i posted).

as for Zodd and Skully's rivalry, Zodd is refered to by SK as "undead one"; perhaps Zodd was Gaiseric's rival on the battlefield whom he finally managed to kill, and was somehow raised as an apostle?

 

[gh-zodd]

yes I think the mask is just for decoration, there is also a lion on his chest plate.

but who knows for certain ehehe. I edit my avatar lol

 

[Walter]

Bastard Swordsman, sorry but your theory doesn't work.

While Skully and Zodd get along like Rocky and Apollo Creed in Rocky 1, if one had sacrificed the other, don't you think Zodd would be more than a little pissed off at the guy, and not willing to end their skirmish in a "tie"?

Also, they don't HAVE to be from the same age just because they're familiar with each other. There's no evidence of Zodd being older than 300 years (check his monologue in volume 17).

the architecture of Gaiseric's time resembled that of the classical roman/greek empires, so it is likely that Gaiseric would be wearing roman armor.

It's likely he's wearing roman armor? We know what kind of armor he's wearing - we've seen it. And there's absolutely no point in calling it Roman armor. The real world doesn't have to (and only in extremely few cases does) correspond directly with Berserk's.

as for Zodd and Skully's rivalry, Zodd is refered to by SK as "undead one"; perhaps Zodd was Gaiseric's rival on the battlefield whom he finally managed to kill, and was somehow raised as an apostle?

Or just a simple reference to Zodd's nickname - Nosferatu Zodd.

 

[bastard_swordsman]

I guess not. But then again, suggesting they aren't even from the same century blows this whole thread out of the water more or less! But that's what's so fun about speculation.
On a quick note, Zodd isn't stated as 300 years old, that's simply how long records of his battles go back. Maybe before then he was just more careful to leave no survivors to tell stories about it!
Or, I could just start some wild speculation about Skully being a manifestation of Zodd's Od, post eclipse, or visa-versa. That sound just as likely as my old idea

 

[Aazealh]

is it possible that skully was Zodd's "something dear"?' After all, this could explain the way they possess an almost friendly (or at least, not hateful) rivalry.

If Zodd had sacrificed SK then I don't think their rivalry would be friendly at all. Furthermore, knowing SK's skills and determination, I don't think Zodd would still be around. It's basically unlikely on a lot of levels.

the architecture of Gaiseric's time resembled that of the classical roman/greek empires, so it is likely that Gaiseric would be wearing roman armor.

What's the point of this observation though? What's the relation to the topic at hand?

Zodd is refered to by SK as "undead one"

Actually he's referred to as "immortal one." Like Walter said, it's in relation to his nickname.

perhaps Zodd was Gaiseric's rival on the battlefield whom he finally managed to kill, and was somehow raised as an apostle?

If he had really killed him he couldn't have become an apostle. Besides, assuming this also means Zodd would be older than all the current members of the God Hand. It doesn't seem too likely.

I guess not. But then again, suggesting they aren't even from the same century blows this whole thread out of the water more or less!

This whole thread (which is over 3 years old) doesn't really offer a valid hypothesis anyway, despite its interesting premise. We're refraining from claiming it's certain SK is Gaiseric for the principle of being wary till definite proof shows up, but there's no real doubt about it.

On a quick note, Zodd isn't stated as 300 years old, that's simply how long records of his battles go back.

Read Walter's post more carefully. In volume 17, Zodd states that he has been wandering for 300 hundred years.

Or, I could just start some wild speculation about Skully being a manifestation of Zodd's Od, post eclipse, or visa-versa. That sound just as likely as my old idea

That doesn't make any sense though. Od in Berserk doesn't work like that... One of my old theories is that Zodd was the previous "Guts" to SK. He found him and helped him, maybe even trained him, but eventually something went wrong and instead of joining SK's cause, Zodd became an apostle. Maybe it's because his goals were different, or the context, who knows. That could explain a lot of things, including his knowledge of the Berserk's Armor, and even the reason SK seems to only get involved in Guts' life when absolutely necessary.

 

[Dirty Dog]

What's the point of this observation though? What's the relation to the topic at hand?

look at the paragraph below it. It was leading into the plume thing. Although Walter is right, similar architecture doesn't necissarily mean similar armory.

Actually he's referred to as "immortal one." Like Walter said, it's in relation to his nickname.

If he had really killed him he couldn't have become an apostle. Besides, assuming this also means Zodd would be older than all the current members of the God Hand. It doesn't seem too likely.

You're right, doesn't seem to likely. Still, it's not totally impossible (skeletons in a nearby battlefield were raised by Guts' presence in one of the first two volumes. If the presence of the brand can do that... I would imagine that the one who gave the brand would be more powerful, as would his peers [the God Hand]).

 

[Aazealh]

look at the paragraph below it. It was leading into the plume thing. Although Walter is right, similar architecture doesn't necissarily mean similar armory.

Yeah, but the plume comment was included in my question. Or are you replying to the original post by Aho411 and not bastard_swordsman's? If so, I don't think such details even need to be considered given the context. Long black hair isn't exactly a rare occurrence in the Berserk world. What if Wyald was Gaiseric?!

You're right, doesn't seem to likely. Still, it's not totally impossible (skeletons in a nearby battlefield were raised by Guts' presence in one of the first two volumes. If the presence of the brand can do that... I would imagine that the one who gave the brand would be more powerful, as would his peers [the God Hand]).

Skeletons were raised because specters possessed them, it's not the "power" of the Brand in itself. They do that with a lot of stuff, and that's not proof of anything here. I do think it's totally impossible for someone already dead to become an apostle, because their spirit/soul would have already left their body. How would their emotions activate the beherit then?

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yeah, but the plume comment was included in my question. Or are you replying to the original post by Aho411 and not bastard_swordsman's? If so, I don't think such details even need to be considered given the context. Long black hair isn't exactly a rare occurrence in the Berserk world. What if Wyald was Gaiseric?!

If Wyald was Gaiseric, then that would definitely explain why his true self was so dang old. Besides, now that you mention it, look at Gaiseric's eyes...
As for the plume, I was saying that it looks more like it is a plume and not his hair, and although that wouldn't do anything to disprove that Gaiseric is Zodd, it only means that it can't be used as evidence to support that speculation.

Skeletons were raised because specters possessed them, it's not the "power" of the Brand in itself. They do that with a lot of stuff, and that's not proof of anything here. I do think it's totally impossible for someone already dead to become an apostle, because their spirit/soul would have already left their body. How would their emotions activate the beherit then?

You're right about specters possessing the skeletons, but aren't the specters just the souls of the wretched, and still capable of feeling desire and such?
Besides, I don't recall anyone in the series ever saying that the only way to become an apostle is to use a beherit... and Zodd doesn't seem like he'd have had anything to give up anyway, at least IMO, so perhaps he did become an Apostle another way.

 

[Aazealh]

As for the plume, I was saying that it looks more like it is a plume and not his hair, and although that wouldn't do anything to disprove that Gaiseric is Zodd, it only means that it can't be used as evidence to support that speculation.

That doesn't allow us to completely dismiss the possibility that it's his hair though, and the hair itself was never conclusive in the first place. All in all, it doesn't matter much at this point since the chances of Zodd being Gaiseric are extremely slim.

You're right about specters possessing the skeletons, but aren't the specters just the souls of the wretched, and still capable of feeling desire and such?

Yeah, but it's not possible for them to become apostles. I don't think you should try to argue about this.

Besides, I don't recall anyone in the series ever saying that the only way to become an apostle is to use a beherit...

Well that's the only way, everything in the series goes in that direction. It's not like there's anything that might even hint at another way to become one, nor any interest in pursuing that far-fetched idea. You become an apostle by sacrificing someone that is very dear to you in presence of the God Hand, and it's only possible to be brought to their plane of existence with that sacrifice by using a beherit. I could list more reasons and explain how the world of Berserk works but what matters is that regardless of what you say there's nothing supporting your hypothesis in the manga.

Zodd doesn't seem like he'd have had anything to give up anyway, at least IMO, so perhaps he did become an Apostle another way.

Wait a minute, is your lack of imagination a good reason to doubt established facts in the series? What he seems like to you doesn't matter, that's not a valid justification for such a theory. SK doesn't call him "undead one" so why are we still talking about this anyway?

 

[bastard_swordsman]

That doesn't make any sense though. Od in Berserk doesn't work like that... One of my old theories is that Zodd was the previous "Guts" to SK. He found him and helped him, maybe even trained him, but eventually something went wrong and instead of joining SK's cause, Zodd became an apostle. Maybe it's because his goals were different, or the context, who knows. That could explain a lot of things, including his knowledge of the Berserk's Armor, and even the reason SK seems to only get involved in Guts' life when absolutely necessary.

Yeah, I wasn't making a serious comment. It was a passing remark at how abstract my suggestion (and others in this thread) have become when linking the two characters in any way possible.
Also, I read your thing about SK being the 'Previous Guts', I thought that was exactly what Miura was establishing... so it's not really much of a speculation.

 

[gatsu97]

On a quick note, something buzzed into my head whilst reading this - the connections between Gaiseric and Zodd can further complicate the reasons for the 'rivalry' between the two. Then suddenly, I thought "hey, apostles have to sacrifice something dear to them - is it possible that skully was Zodd's "something dear"?' After all, this could explain the way they possess an almost friendly (or at least, not hateful) rivalry.

There is a small story explained in episode 139 that is close to your theory; Mozgus is talking about a wise man who had been imprisoned in the tower of rebirth (I think that's the name) by Gaiseric the conqueror and the man prayed hard so some angels appeared to answer his prayers. Well, he doesn't say much but this story deserves some thinking. It could be the moment Gaiseric became a struggler but I'm not gonna suppose the wise man was Zodd because he is clearly telling he has been wandering the earth for 300 years and Gaiseric legacy is 1000 years old.

 

[Dirty Dog]

There is a small story explained in episode 139 that is close to your theory; Mozgus is talking about a wise man who had been imprisoned in the tower of rebirth (I think that's the name) by Gaiseric the conqueror and the man prayed hard so some angels appeared to answer his prayers. Well, he doesn't say much but this story deserves some thinking. It could be the moment Gaiseric became a struggler but I'm not gonna suppose the wise man was Zodd because he is clearly telling he has been wandering the earth for 300 years and Gaiseric legacy is 1000 years old.

Or maybe the wiseman was Void, and the 1000 years was an approximation (it was actually 784 years).

 

[Walter]

Or maybe the wiseman was Void, and the 1000 years was an approximation (it was actually 784 years).

That doesn't really work, as the title of the current arc is MILLENNIUM FALCON, not PRETTY-MUCH-1000-YEAR FALCON

 

[Aazealh]

a wise man who had been imprisoned in the tower of rebirth (I think that's the name)

No, the tower of rebirth is the one Griffith was imprisoned in.

 

[Dirty Dog]

That doesn't really work, as the title of the current arc is MILLENNIUM FALCON, not PRETTY-MUCH-1000-YEAR FALCON   

and who said that Gaiseric had anything to do with the reincarnated God Hand from 1000 years ago?

 

[Walter]

and who said that Gaiseric had anything to do with the reincarnated God Hand from 1000 years ago?

Well, not me... And not you either. What's your point? I'm kinda lost here now.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Well, not me... And not you either. What's your point? I'm kinda lost here now.

I said that the 1000 years was an approximation, and was actually 784 - when Void became a God Hand.
You then said that it couldn't be, because the title of the current arc is "millenium falcon".
I figured that was because the God Hand are only reincarnated every 1000 years.

 

[Walter]

I said that the 1000 years was an approximation, and was actually 784 - when Void became a God Hand.
You then said that it couldn't be, because the title of the current arc is "millenium falcon".
I figured that was because the God Hand are only reincarnated every 1000 years.

GET TO THE POINT

 

[Dirty Dog]

GET TO THE POINT 

damn it, now you've got me confused!