What If...? (Guts/Griffith)

I touched on this topic with Aaz, and now I'd appreciate your opinions.

If we overlook the IoE's machinations...

What would have happened to Griffith if he had escaped the palace grounds after his night with Charlotte? Do you think Griffith would have got his head straight after that or would he continue his reckless behaviour without Guts? It would be interesting to see how he would cope without Guts to perform his dirty work.

And what of Guts? He left in search of his own purpose, but would he find one? He didn't sound entirely confident when he left, but anything's possible. Perhaps he would opt for a simple life, where he would succeed Godot and settle down with Erica?

Interesting topic.

Doc said:

I touched on this topic with Aaz, and now I'd appreciate your opinions.

If we overlook the IoE's machinations...

What would have happened to Griffith if he had escaped the palace grounds after his night with Charlotte? Do you think Griffith would have got his head straight after that or would he continue his reckless behaviour without Guts? It would be interesting to see how he would cope without Guts to perform his dirty work.

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Griffith and the other Hawks would still have been ambushed, so it's possible Griffith might've been killed right then. If he hadn't his dream to become King just became a lot harder now that all his hard work rising through the ranks would have been dashed. He'd either have to relocate to another region in the world and start over or attempt to conquer Midland, most likely... either way I'm sure he would have probably continued to act recklessly... and without an ace in the hole like Guts to help out, I don't know if it would've ever worked out, especially since folks like Wyald and the Bakiraka could've potentially been deployed after him.

He'd probably still blame Guts for all of this happening as well.

And what of Guts? He left in search of his own purpose, but would he find one? He didn't sound entirely confident when he left, but anything's possible. Perhaps he would opt for a simple life, where he would succeed Godot and settle down with Erica?

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're intending by "settle down with Erica"... I suppose anything's possible!

Well if we're thinking along the same timeline that Griffith was never captured in, he probably would've still returned to the Hawks eventually and try to help them out until Griffith was okay again (if Griffith would let him). Perhaps after that he would still sweep up Casca and go traveling with her.

Basically yeah, I think he would've eventually found his own purpose and ultimately live a happy life.

I think the only thing Guts isn't capable of is settling down. Too used to conflict, he'd need some kind of adrenaline boost, and somehow the humble farmer like doesn't seem like it would provide that. He would probably have drifted around the continent looking for new challenges and the like.
Hell, he'd probably still have fought an apostle or two.

As for Griffith, I'm not so sure.
Declining mental condition and things of that nature probably would have led him to screw up like what he done with Charlotte. Somehow, I think he would have still messed up.
What with causality (excuse if I spelt that wrong) and all, something would have to have triggered the eclipse.

Which, to me, just means all this would still have happened, just at a later date. Granted the events leading up to the eclipse would be different, though.

Also, first post on a great forum. Hurrah to that.

If you're wondering about a "non-eclipse" timeline, that would indeed be interesting (in a far less interesting way compared to what really happened, mind you)...

Call me crazy, but I think *something* would have brought Guts and Griffith back together. I'm not sure what, but it's obvious that Guts' urge to become something great was brought on by Griffith's speech to Charlotte. In other words, I could see Guts wanting to show up with his own fulfilled dream and say, "Hey Griffith look what I got!"

Then again, the roles might be reversed in that case. If Griffith and his band escaped persecution somehow, they would still need to start from square one and who knows if an already beaten down Griffith would have enough ambition to take his own country without his manservant / friend Guts there to help him.

Sometimes I thought too about this chance of Griffith free to go on after the night with Charlotte, but it's impossible to not consider the work of Idea of Evil; just think of Zodd helping Guts against Boscone..

Ok someone could argue that Zodd just wanted to save someone he respected, but then he mentions the forthcoming eclipse (as to say that only Guts was the key to grant the occultation ceremony); Or we have the example of the Beherit apostle, that forced Nina to be arrested by leading Joachim toward her and so on.

So it's not clear if the IoE's pattern could be modified with the same result, but I cannot view things without the IoE's machinations.

Moreover the event that allowed Guts to meet the hawks again is their condition as fugitives, so everything pivots on the occultation ceremony.

Doc said:

And what of Guts? He left in search of his own purpose, but would he find one? He didn't sound entirely confident when he left, but anything's possible. Perhaps he would opt for a simple life, where he would succeed Godot and settle down with Erica?

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But anyway I think that Guts before the eclipse would have had no reason to lead a simple life. In fact his dangerous training was due to his desire to defeat enemies like Zodd and so on. So it's just Guts' drive to be the strongest among inhuman beings too.

About Griffith I don't really know if his catatonic mood would have come even without the arrest or if he'd manage somehow without Guts.

Marik said:

Sometimes I thought too about this chance of Griffith free to go on after the night with Charlotte, but it's impossible to not consider the work of Idea of Evil; just think of Zodd helping Guts against Boscone..

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Indeed, if it weren't for the Idea of evil none of the events in the manga would have taken place the way they did. Hell, Griffith probably would have never been born if that was the case.