Prometheus

Walter said:
It seems to me that the black goo is more like a weaponized evolutionary compound. It turns things into violent creatures, the function of which I presume is to wipe out a race. It's certainly not as simple as "granting desire," because there's obviously a common physiology that links all of the creatures. We saw earthworms turned into proto-facehuggers, for example. Shaw's "pregnancy" also wasn't terribly different from the incubation period that xenomorphs undergo during their gestational phase.
That is my belief as well. As to why the Engineer did what he did at the end, here's my take -
originally the Engineer's were Earth-bound to actually deliver the payload and to destroy life on Earth. Unfortunately for them, shit went wrong and they could not achieve that (Hologram's evidence of it and also, when they recover the decapitated head Shaw indicates there were signs of change on a cellular level plus the black goo runs out of it's pores when they try to tweak it - so the Engineer's running away were scared of being infected by the goo. The ones infected were piled together with things busted outta them). Now, fast-forward - David and the humans go to wake the sleeping Engineer. He's surprised to see the things he was originally sent off to terminate have found their way here and he freaks out.

There's already a lot of talk about a sequel called Paradise. Obviously it doesn't sound like there will be a paradise at all.

About the goo, it's not that hard to figure out that -
the urns begin to 'sweat' as David said because they were somehow activated when they entered that room, probably heat induced. When ingested by the worms, they turned into acid blooded aggressive bigger worms/ snakes that face-hug in their own characteristic way. When Fifield's face gets exposed to the goo, he turns into an aggressive dude and he's all crawled up outside, reminds me of how the Xeno's shown sitting in Alien/ Aliens. Holloway's infection was changing him as well.

This is a fun read - http://screenrave.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=24770:prometheus-secrets-behind-the-surgery-scene&catid=65:tidbits&Itemid=167

I would've preferred the real gore for that scene from the original script.
 

Grail

Feel the funk blast
IncantatioN said:
About the goo, it's not that hard to figure out that -
the urns begin to 'sweat' as David said because they were somehow activated when they entered that room, probably heat induced. When ingested by the worms, they turned into acid blooded aggressive bigger worms/ snakes that face-hug in their own characteristic way. When Fifield's face gets exposed to the goo, he turns into an aggressive dude and he's all crawled up outside, reminds me of how the Xeno's shown sitting in Alien/ Aliens. Holloway's infection was changing him as well.

I think that makes a lot of sense, Canty. However, the main confusion about
the black goo seems to be that it produces a drastically different reaction when ingested by the Engineers. Since their DNA is a perfect match to the human sample, why does it make them disintegrate when they ingest it?

I don't know if I'm just missing something, but that's what's bugging me.
 
Grail said:
I think that makes a lot of sense, Canty. However, the main confusion about
the black goo seems to be that it produces a drastically different reaction when ingested by the Engineers. Since their DNA is a perfect match to the human sample, why does it make them disintegrate when they ingest it?

I don't know if I'm just missing something, but that's what's bugging me.

Could be a few things like
the black goo at the beginning was different or the amount ingested perhaps? The Engineer at the beginning drinks the whole cup versus a drop ingested by Holloway or a facial exposure/ exposure to some extent on an injured Fifield. RC said in an interview (http://www.tywigs.org/gadgets-reviews/ridley-scott-talks-prometheus-with-slashgear-candid-uncut) "the guy at the beginning is simply donating himself ... It’s no more than that, he’s into a form of donation, except his DNA is so powerful, each molecule is like a timebomb.". That also answers a question raised about what planet is shown in the opening sequence - Earth because the Engineer's DNA is a perfect match to ours - as confirmed by Shaw analyzing the DNA from the Engineer's decapitated head they find. Here's another interview by Lindelof where he talks about RC's idea "Yeah, one of the things we kept coming back to was how do we take the idea of the creation myth that in Judeo-Christian culture it’s Garden of Eden, God creates Adam and Eve but Ridley was more interested in Greco-Roman or Aztec creation myths where there are many Gods and they make Man out of themselves. The idea that they sacrifice a piece of themselves to create Man in their own image I find very interesting and the question was can we do it on a sci-fi level and so the opening of the movie is that exact idea and that theme carries through to our future which, in this case, is embodied by our creations – David who we make in our own image though we don’t know why." - http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/2012/06/07/prometheus-writer-damon-lindelof-talks-engineers-alien-family-tree-the-sequels-opening-scene/

RC's talked about Eric Von Daniken in his interview earlier. One of the many probable influences on ideas perhaps.

There's also an official Prometheus art book out there that has some cool images from what could be on the extended cut.
 

MrWeatherby

What's up, ketchup?
I had just assumed that the goo affected different species in different ways. So with human DNA it would break the body down or explode it, and with the worms it turned them into something more advanced. That said, I assumed Zombie Fifield was the result of worms inhabiting his body like some sort of parasite. I'm probably just misremembering things, though I am glad that they don't overtly explain the goo and how it operates.

edit:

wait, guys, do you think the goo is the same as the stuff in World of Goo!? Oh my god, I think I blew this case wide open. Get Ridley Scott on the horn to confirm!
 
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hellrasinbrasin

Guest
If you looked at the Giger Mural on the door leading into another Chamber
(hint hint wink wink) you would have seen Prometheus's interpretation design of Giger's Mural spanning the Xenomorph Life Cycle.

Ib9zs.jpg

"Reinterpretation of H. R. Giger's Work"

20287.jpg

"The Original"
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
That xenomorph mural is pretty hard to miss in the movie, since they show it a few times. But it just further confuses things to me.

It implies the engineers had prior knowledge of the xenomoprhs. To me, that mural shows the xenomorphs, being at the center and all, are probably the ultimate evolution of the various creatures spawned by the goo. However, the movie shows the xenomorphs as the final product in the unique and overly complicated breeding that happens between the phases of Holloway->Shaw->Squid Monster->Engineer's stomach->Xenomorph.

So, how could they have known that specific process would happen, and graft it onto a wall? Or am I just overthinking things, like the RedLetterMedia video warned about...
 
Here's a clearer picture of the mural that's floating around the interwebs -

georgeft.jpg


Agree with your explanation Walter.
Bottom left and right - you see the face-hugger in action. Right on top you see a sort of womb and a small egg above the Xeno itself. The Xeno could either be the depiction of the Queen perhaps or of the Xeno simply to show that it's the 'perfect being' - as Ash mentions in Alien. Maybe it's a big warning to Engineers of what could happen, showing them the process of it.

I can see how this movie will not bode well with devout Catholics. It's actually a big FU to em with the idea that
man was created by other Human~like beings and not a supernatural being - God.
 
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hellrasinbrasin

Guest
I think that most here can agree that its been a long time since any scifi film has generated this much debate.
 
Walter said:
To me, that mural shows the xenomorphs, being at the center and all, are probably the ultimate evolution of the various creatures spawned by the goo.

IncantatioN said:
the Xeno simply to show that it's the 'perfect being' - as Ash mentions in Alien.

That'd definitely explain why the xenomorph is in Jesus' crucifix "pose."

Edit to add: Or maybe it suggests the xenomorph is the result of whatever happened two thousand years ago? /baseless speculation
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
hellrasinbrasin said:
I think that most here can agree that its been a long time since any scifi film has generated this much debate.
Pfffff, yeah for it being confusing and open-ended? Bravo. How about that LOST ending, guys?
 
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hellrasinbrasin

Guest
Walter said:
How about that LOST ending, guys?

LOST's ending wasn't confusing it just confirmed that you were watching dead people for 6 Series.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
hellrasinbrasin said:
LOST's ending wasn't confusing it just confirmed that you were watching dead people for 6 Series.
My point: LOST generated a lot of debate and discussion as well for its vagueness and hints at a depth that never actually surfaced. That doesn't make it a good experience.
 
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hellrasinbrasin

Guest
Walter said:
My point: LOST generated a lot of debate and discussion as well for its vagueness and hints at a depth that never actually surfaced. That doesn't make it a good experience.

I never said that LOST was bad it was actually quite good and the series finale certainly added to the overall debate about the show.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
hellrasinbrasin said:
I never said that LOST was bad it was actually quite good and the series finale certainly added to the overall debate about the show.
Okay. Glad we cleared up where you, a Prometheus advocate, stand on that particular show. :void:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Alright, so I saw the movie and it's pretty weak. I can't really be bothered to read the thread right now so I'll just assume that all the reasons were given already. It's too bad because it had potential.

hellrasinbrasin said:
I never said that LOST was bad it was actually quite good and the series finale certainly added to the overall debate about the show.

Hahaha, there goes your credibility. Don't tell me you're defending this movie's glaring plot holes as well? That would be rather sad.
 
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hellrasinbrasin

Guest
Aazealh said:
Hahaha, there goes your credibility. Don't tell me you're defending this movie's glaring plot holes as well? That would be rather sad.

I never said it was a perfect film Aazealh as their is no such thing. Does Prometheus have issues "Yup" are they enough to ignore the ideas posed in the film "No". Does the film invalidate the countless theories being pitched in the Prometheus / Alien community "No". The bottom line is the film is what it is you're either going to take something from it or you're not -- you're either going to like or you're not.
 

NightCrawler

Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
I just didn't care about the holes in this movie enough to prevent my enjoyment from it.
There's no way in hell they could tell this story, with the same characters in just a little under 2h without plot holes. Just no way. Let's hope there's enough material left on the floor to make this a better movie. From what i've been reading from the leaked draft, things do make more sense.
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
I REALLY liked it, but I had some of the same complaints that have been mentioned so far.
Mostly the movie felt like the script needed a few more drafts before production, which is most likely why there is so much awkward dialog between characters: "Father" and "I can't have babies" being the worst offenders for me (the bit about the ship being a bomber/the place being a weapons depot didn't bother me for whatever reason). The second problem is that the Scott needed to move away from Aliens.

As far as a sequal goes: what can they do? I know they are talking sequel already, but I just don't see where to move from that ending: "David release the evolution-bombs on top of the engineer home planet!" A sequel just isn't realistic, considering they'll kill Shaw on sight.

Also, I highly recommend NOT seeing this in 3D, not worth the money. (Thankfully I didn't pay for 3D tickets.)
 

MrWeatherby

What's up, ketchup?
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
As far as a sequal goes: what can they do? I know they are talking sequel already, but I just don't see where to move from that ending: "David release the evolution-bombs on top of the engineer home planet!" A sequel just isn't realistic, considering they'll kill Shaw on sight.

Her devotion is outweighing reason. She could just putz off on back to Earth like David suggests, but like David she's driven by a curiosity to find out more. She even states that the Engineers "changed their minds" about making the human race extinct, and she wants to know why. Besides, she's spent her life trying researching this crap and a lot of people died because of it, so why go halfway?

Also them killing her on sight (or things just plain going wrong, which Ridley Scott has said would be the point) is reason enough to make another movie. It's conflict. What would you rather have happen? She goes there and they bake a cake and a chest burster pops out of it and she's like "oh you guuuuys~"
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
hellrasinbrasin said:
I never said it was a perfect film Aazealh as their is no such thing.

And I didn't say you said so.

hellrasinbrasin said:
Does Prometheus have issues "Yup" are they enough to ignore the ideas posed in the film "No".

That hardly makes sense. It's a movie, not a manifesto. The "ideas" it "poses" are nothing to write home about.

hellrasinbrasin said:
Does the film invalidate the countless theories being pitched in the Prometheus / Alien community "No".

No relevance.

hellrasinbrasin said:
The bottom line is the film is what it is you're either going to take something from it or you're not -- you're either going to like or you're not.

That's some deep stuff man.

NightCrawler said:
I just didn't care about the holes in this movie enough to prevent my enjoyment from it.

Me neither. I enjoyed it for what it is. It just isn't much.

NightCrawler said:
There's no way in hell they could tell this story, with the same characters in just a little under 2h without plot holes.

That's a rather debatable claim, and I think the movie would have been better with less people in it anyway.

NightCrawler said:
Let's hope there's enough material left on the floor to make this a better movie. From what i've been reading from the leaked draft, things do make more sense.

I'm not hopeful.
 

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
MrWeatherby said:
Also them killing her on sight (or things just plain going wrong, which Ridley Scott has said would be the point) is reason enough to make another movie. It's conflict. What would you rather have happen? She goes there and they bake a cake and a chest burster pops out of it and she's like "oh you guuuuys~"

What I'm specifically talking about is lack of an interesting conflict.
The Engineers have already tried to kill Shaw once before (granted that specific engineer may have had a psychopathic episode, we'll never know because he is dead) and the Engineer species intended to orbital bombard Earth with bio-weapons. There really isn't a lot to do with a sequel that doesn't involve Shaw running away 99% of the film realizing how dumb her idea is, which if that is the sequel I'm sure you're going to love it.
 
Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
There really isn't a lot to do with a sequel that doesn't involve Shaw running away 99% of the film realizing how dumb her idea is, which if that is the sequel I'm sure you're going to love it.

Welcome to... the franchise???
 
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hellrasinbrasin

Guest
Well now that
The Engineer's God has been reborn at the end of Prometheus
I'm interested in seeing what Paradise has to offer. Paradise is the temp title for Prometheus 2 so my question is what do people want covered in the follow up to
The Adventures of Shaw and David
.
 
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