Guts as a "real" monster

B

Begemot

STOP UNDRESSING ME WITH YOUR EYES!
When the spirits take the form of the Beast in Volume 16, they taunt Guts by saying if he continues on his path then he'll turn into a monster in human flesh, or that he might become a real monster like his friend.

This naturally points towards the Behelit, but I have a little speculation of my own here. During the usual occultation, the Apostle or Godhand to be forsakes their humanity, and is given a new form, which seems to be a reflection of their soul. They get great power right then, their spirit manifesting in the physical realm.

Now let's look at Guts. He already walks between the astral and material plain, and his force of spirit (an astral concept) affects the material realm. If he forsook his humanity altogether, would he turn into an actual monster without a ceremony?
 
S

Smith

Gutz is already seen by human as monster, even the apostle call him that! :eek:

Yes, u r right, I doubt it is necessary to hav a ceremony to turn him into a monster :)
 
M

Mitsu_dunDee

Sparkles + will-o-the-wisp = BOUM
Gutz said:
Gutz is already seen by human as monster, even the apostle call him that! :eek:

Yes, u r right, I doubt it is necessary to hav a ceremony to turn him into a monster :)
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Since he is already a monster by that he is a berserker, rather rare skill in human race.
 
N

namayias

isn't a berserker a soldier who when losing their temper becomes possessed by a war demon? Or am i completely wrong about this?
 
T

temporary

Guest
namayias said:
isn't a berserker a soldier who when losing their temper becomes possessed by a war demon? Or am i completely wrong about this?
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Pretty much. A Warmongering beast. I'm not sure about it being a skill tho.
 
Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Vampire_Hunter_Bob

Cats are great
namayias said:
isn't a berserker a soldier who when losing their temper becomes possessed by a war demon? Or am i completely wrong about this?
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Wrong series.

"berserker

Berserk \Ber"serk\, Berserker \Ber"serk*er\, n. [Icel. berserkr.] 1. (Scand. Myth.) One of a class of legendary heroes, who fought frenzied by intoxicating liquors, and naked, regardless of wounds. --Longfellow.

2. One who fights as if frenzied, like a Berserker."

thats a berserk.

- bob
 
M

Mitsu_dunDee

Sparkles + will-o-the-wisp = BOUM
First time I heard about was in Record of Lodoss War
which was based on AD&D RPG.

Berserker are supposed to be possessed by Furie (some kind of entity in in that odd world)
which provide them Super-Extra-Full strengh.
They cannot completely control their mind when switching to "berserk mode"' and they need
time to recover from a "berserk session".

I supposed AD&D rules shall provide more help with this,though we (I?) don't know where Miura picked up this idea for Guts.
 
P

psymont

Guest
UrashimaSenpai said:
Perhaps its another form of Drunken Boxing^^
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"legend of the drunken master - starring Jackie Chan" was probably the best martial arts movie i have ever seen .... definitely recommended
 
Walter

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
real_monsters.gif
 
T

temporary

Guest
Drunken Boxing is classic, just kinda' scary when he drank all that fire liquor or fuel wutever :p
 
Griffith

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
kimchan said:
Wow, I'd forgotten about that show. But I never was a big fan anyway. :-X
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Indeed, one of the lessor Nicktoons, I sat through a number of episodes though during my Lego days. :)

-Griffith
 
T

temporary

Guest
This naturally points towards the Behelit, but I have a little speculation of my own here. During the usual occultation, the Apostle or Godhand to be forsakes their humanity, and is given a new form, which seems to be a reflection of their soul. They get great power right then, their spirit manifesting in the physical realm.
 
S

SoulCrasher

Guest
I think that perhaps the Dragon Slayer is corrupting Guts, making him into the Beast slowly. Since "it seems like the Dragon Slayer has the power of the shadow spirits.", and "Scherkie starts to remember the words of Flora. And how spells may end up consuming the spell caster themself. And the most dangerous is the Shadow." So if Dragon Slayer uses shadow elementals, and if using a magic weapon like Dragon Slayer was somehow like casting a spell or something, maybe that's how the Beast is consuming Guts. I remember in Volume 24 when Guts rejects Scherkie's magic axe, she sees the sword and it seems as if she recognizes it. We'll find out the whole truth eventually.
 
B

Boonki

Christopher Lowell's Rainbow Six
SoulCrasher said:
I think that perhaps the Dragon Slayer is corrupting Guts, making him into the Beast slowly. Since "it seems like the Dragon Slayer has the power of the shadow spirits.", and "Scherkie starts to remember the words of Flora. And how spells may end up consuming the spell caster themself. And the most dangerous is the Shadow." So if Dragon Slayer uses shadow elementals, and if using a magic weapon like Dragon Slayer was somehow like casting a spell or something, maybe that's how the Beast is consuming Guts. I remember in Volume 24 when Guts rejects Scherkie's magic axe, she sees the sword and it seems as if she recognizes it. We'll find out the whole truth eventually.
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Very very cool! I think you're right on track with that.
 
Walter

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Newbies take notice, SoulCrasher has just made an IDEAL first post. Please model yourselves after his example. I commend you dude, welcome.
 
D

daniel3

SoulCrasher said:
I think that perhaps the Dragon Slayer is corrupting Guts, making him into the Beast slowly. Since "it seems like the Dragon Slayer has the power of the shadow spirits.", and "Scherkie starts to remember the words of Flora. And how spells may end up consuming the spell caster themself. And the most dangerous is the Shadow." So if Dragon Slayer uses shadow elementals, and if using a magic weapon like Dragon Slayer was somehow like casting a spell or something, maybe that's how the Beast is consuming Guts. I remember in Volume 24 when Guts rejects Scherkie's magic axe, she sees the sword and it seems as if she recognizes it. We'll find out the whole truth eventually.
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Heya, I'm new :). I see with your points on the dragon slayer being magical (never thought of it being a form of shadow magic though) and it possibly having an adverse effect on guts itself, but the beast inside him started to grow quite a bit before he received the sword. If you remember, it first reared its evil head during the eclipse when guts saw femto violating caska and then just before he received the sword when he fought his very first apostle.

My belief is that the beast has always been a part of guts and is the side of him that for the most part fuels his incredible abilities. The shape and form of the beast is without a doubt affected entirely by guts himself and the current incarnation is borne of guts immense hatred which exploded at the dawn of the eclipse. The more guts fights with hatred in his heart, the more twisted the beast becomes and the more he runs the chance of becoming the beast himself entirely (minus form of course).

The thing is though is that I believe guts needs the beast if he even hopes to pose any real threat to the apostles. It’s that hatred that allows him to fight with such fury and what allows him to fight almost on equal terms with many or most of the apostles he comes up against. The DS serves as an extension of the fact rather than a cause of the beast itself imho. Guts is ebil I say, EBIL!!!
 
S

SoulCrasher

Guest

Heya, I'm new :). I see with your points on the dragon slayer being magical (never thought of it being a form of shadow magic though) and it possibly having an adverse effect on guts itself, but the beast inside him started to grow quite a bit before he received the sword. If you remember, it first reared its evil head during the eclipse when guts saw femto violating caska and then just before he received the sword when he fought his very first apostle.

My belief is that the beast has always been a part of guts and is the side of him that for the most part fuels his incredible abilities. The shape and form of the beast is without a doubt affected entirely by guts himself and the current incarnation is borne of guts immense hatred which exploded at the dawn of the eclipse. The more guts fights with hatred in his heart, the more twisted the beast becomes and the more he runs the chance of becoming the beast himself entirely (minus form of course).

The thing is though is that I believe guts needs the beast if he even hopes to pose any real threat to the apostles. It’s that hatred that allows him to fight with such fury and what allows him to fight almost on equal terms with many or most of the apostles he comes up against. The DS serves as an extension of the fact rather than a cause of the beast itself imho. Guts is ebil I say, EBIL!!!

Those are good points. My theory would have removed Guts from having any real responsibility over his actions. I don't have the manual for the Sword of the Berserk game on me, but a friend was telling me that the manual says that Guts' berserk mode is caused by the sword. Maybe I'm overanalyzing some of the things like the title of the game, but I know there's some relation to the sword and the beast.
 
M

Majin_Tenshi

The can opener went bye-bye...
SoulCrasher said:
the manual says that Guts' berserk mode is caused by the sword.
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Guts went berserk in the eclipse. So the sword can't have a thing to do with it. I don't remember any real taka no dan berserking, so maybe its the brand... and they're trying to seal it now too... :(
 
Walter

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Majin Tenshi said:
Guts went berserk in the eclipse. So the sword can't have a thing to do with it. I don't remember any real taka no dan berserking,
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Escaping from Griffith's cell?

so maybe its the brand... and they're trying to seal it now too... :(
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You people are forgetting what the brand symbolizes, Guts seperation from the real world and his existence in the Interstice. To me, that's 1/2 of the reason for the manifestation of the Beast.
 
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