Author Topic: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?  (Read 9448 times)

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Offline Menosgade

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2018, 05:07:25 PM »
Most interesting so far, and extremely dangerous. Yet, I hope the bazooka shot killed it.


Offline Aazealh

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2018, 11:09:29 PM »
I hope the bazooka shot killed it.

It definitely did not.

Offline Fancypantaloons

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2018, 04:57:45 PM »
Zodd, but in his """normal""" form.

Offline NCHaskew

Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2018, 03:12:14 AM »
Hmmm, like most people, saying a definitive favorite is incredibly difficult. But I do really like the Cthulhu design of the Rotting Root Lord that Schierke summons to seal Qliphoth. Especially since we get the great Nietzsche quote about the abyss.

As for least favorite, I gotta say Wyald. I don't hate anything in Berserk, but I'm close on him. He kind of just felt like a hat on a hat. The '97 anime and film trilogy both cut him and I'd say it really adds to the impact of the Eclipse. In my humble opinion.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2018, 06:15:47 AM »
As for least favorite, I gotta say Wyald. I don't hate anything in Berserk, but I'm close on him. He kind of just felt like a hat on a hat. The '97 anime and film trilogy both cut him and I'd say it really adds to the impact of the Eclipse. In my humble opinion.

Your opinion fucking sucks.

Offline Archer1215

Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2018, 02:43:33 PM »
As for least favorite, I gotta say Wyald. I don't hate anything in Berserk, but I'm close on him. He kind of just felt like a hat on a hat. The '97 anime and film trilogy both cut him and I'd say it really adds to the impact of the Eclipse. In my humble opinion.

The Wyald sequence is great for several reasons.

For one thing, it’s the first time Guts manages to defeat an Apostle, which is a significant accomplishment. The sequence contrasts quite a bit with his first encounter with Zodd, where he was shaking in fear and hardly able to do anything against him. We see his training and progress throughout the series as he achieves victory by becoming the 100-Man Slayer and killing Boscone, but Wyald was his final test before the Eclipse. The initial Zodd encounter was about pointing out how “weak” Guts was and served as his motivation to become stronger, while the Wyald encounter was all about showing the fruits of Guts’ labor as he finally stands up to and defeats an inhuman monster. This paved the way for his future as the Black Swordsman.

We also get quite a few really good character moments during the Wyald sequence. Griffith reaching for his sword to fight alongside his soldiers, but being unable to grip it as it falls to the ground. Casca tearfully yelling at Judeau about how Guts always has to stay and fight, and that it’s okay for him to retreat when the odds are so heavily stacked against him. Griffith gritting his teeth hard enough to draw blood as his friend is brutalized by Wyald. The wholesome scene in the wagon where Guts helps Griffith put on his armor and tells him it’s okay for him to take off his mask when it’s just the two of them.

I would also argue that the Wyald sequence doesn’t detract from the Eclipse, it reinforces the gravity of the situation. Only recently one Apostle gave them so much trouble, and now they are surrounded by dozens of them (if not more than a hundred). It makes their situation seem all the more bleak and hopeless.

Offline Walter

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2018, 02:53:06 PM »
I would also argue that the Wyald sequence doesn’t detract from the Eclipse, it reinforces the gravity of the situation. Only recently one Apostle gave them so much trouble, and now they are surrounded by dozens of them (if not more than a hundred). It makes their situation seem all the more bleak and hopeless.

Agreed. A common reading of the Wyald sequence is that it undermines the Eclipse by essentially having a "mini-feast." But instead, it's establishing the stakes for the Eclipse, so that when we realize all those figures on the horizon are each apostles, we know we aren't in for a big fight and escape sequence for most of our heroes, but an inescapable death. That's an absolute tonal shift that neither of the anime adaptations succeeds at pulling off.

Wyald's encounter with Zodd also provided a pretty important nuance to Zodd's motivations, established the apostle credo "do as you will," and served as the first time Guts sees the Vortex of Souls — all of which are appropriate stage-setting elements for what's to come.

It's also the final hurrah for the Falcons — the last time we get to see them fighting as a group, and each member has their moment to shine.
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Offline NCHaskew

Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2018, 04:15:07 PM »
Your opinion fucking sucks.

That hurt my feelings. Now we're both in the wrong.

Agreed. A common reading of the Wyald sequence is that it undermines the Eclipse by essentially having a "mini-feast." But instead, it's establishing the stakes for the Eclipse, so that when we realize all those figures on the horizon are each apostles, we know we aren't in for a big fight and escape sequence for most of our heroes, but an inescapable death. That's an absolute tonal shift that neither of the anime adaptations succeeds at pulling off.

I definitely see the argument, I just think that Guts' first encounter with Zodd serves a similar purpose. On top of the "mini-feast," I also think his continual rape of every woman he sees also detracts from the Eclipse. His almost-rape of Casca is just... I don't know, it feels less story significant and more shock-value.

The Wyald sequence is great for several reasons.

For one thing, it’s the first time Guts manages to defeat an Apostle, which is a significant accomplishment. The sequence contrasts quite a bit with his first encounter with Zodd, where he was shaking in fear and hardly able to do anything against him.

That's a really good point. I suppose I originally thought that Guts plowing through apostles in the Eclipse was enough, but him vs. Wyald is a cool contrast to him vs. Zodd.

Offline saaken

Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2018, 06:58:09 AM »
hi,

i think irvine is a very interesting character , we don't know much about his past and he make me very curious to know more about him.
His design is really cool.


Offline asic

Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2018, 08:30:12 AM »
Never understood the criticism of the Wyald character/encounter and it has come up before. As others have already pointed out it adds to the story in multiple ways. In some aspects it is one of my favorite pre-eclipse battles/Apostles.

I definitely see the argument, I just think that Guts' first encounter with Zodd serves a similar purpose. On top of the "mini-feast," I also think his continual rape of every woman he sees also detracts from the Eclipse. His almost-rape of Casca is just... I don't know, it feels less story significant and more shock-value.

If you see the argument you should realize it is more than just shock-value. People have already pointed that out. Obviously it also adds to push Griffith closer to the edge. There is actual legit character developments in the encounter. I am baffled everytime this comes up..


Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2018, 12:08:11 PM »
Has to be Grunbeld for me, by far. I've always had a fascination with Giants and Dragons. I would love more story about him.



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Offline MrFlibble

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2018, 12:28:59 PM »
Man, I gotta be careful on what I wish for.
Bwha ha ha ha.

Offline Giovanna

Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2018, 12:43:25 PM »
Agreed. A common reading of the Wyald sequence is that it undermines the Eclipse by essentially having a "mini-feast." But instead, it's establishing the stakes for the Eclipse, so that when we realize all those figures on the horizon are each apostles, we know we aren't in for a big fight and escape sequence for most of our heroes, but an inescapable death. That's an absolute tonal shift that neither of the anime adaptations succeeds at pulling off.

Doesn’t it also serves to show Guts (and everyone there) that those monsters are originally also humans? The end of that sequence is quite awesome, when Wyald’s body turns back into an old man and everybody sees it happening. Without this moment, Guts could very well not know that the apostles were humans before, no? And also that they are naturally evil, not just during eclipse ceremonies. I don’t think seeing what Griffith did would be enough to know this because his is a ‘special’ case, so Miura introduces this information to Guts with Wyald.

Offline Walter

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2018, 12:46:20 PM »
Man, I gotta be careful on what I wish for.

 :ganishka: To be fair, we did get some cool new illustrations from Miura in the light novel. The primary objection I have to this whole thing isn't that we're getting Grunbeld's backstory outside of the manga (which I also have qualms with), it's that Miura isn't the one telling the story. He outsourced it to a hack writer. And that sets a scary precedent for the future.

Doesn’t it also serves to show Guts (and everyone there) that those monsters are originally also humans? The end of that sequence is quite awesome, when Wyald’s body turns back into an old man and everybody sees it happening. Without this moment, Guts could very well not know that the apostles were humans before, no? And also that they are naturally evil, not just during eclipse ceremonies. I don’t think seeing what Griffith did would be enough to know this because his is a ‘special’ case, so Miura introduces this information to Guts with Wyald.

Certainly, but I didn't mean to go point-by-point about the significance of that volume. I could go on and on about Wyald. Another thing I didn't mention is that pairing him with Zodd in those final pages is a good glimpse at the disparity between apostles and their attitudes about how they use their power. Wyald is basically just a depraved, thrill-seeking old man, whereas Zodd appears to live by a kind of code of warriors. It's an important step as Miura introduces more apostles, building to the divide between apostles like Grunbeld/Irvine/Locus and the hordes of nameless apostles who just crave human meat.
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Offline Faded

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Re: What Apostle/Creature did you like the best?
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2018, 06:43:00 PM »
The Apostle I thought was coolest, gotta be Rosine. She could fly at super sonic speeds, had a freakin' venomous lance-whip thing attached to her head and could spawn an army of underlings that were pretty powerful in their own right. She posed quite a unique and difficult challenge. I mean unless you're a professional bug exterminator like Guts, that is. Haha.

Locus has gotta be a close second for me. I always loved his little moment with Ganishka. When Locus' eyes crackle with energy as he begins to transform, and says "Don't flatter yourself" I'm not gonna lie it was a pretty hype moment for me. His Apostle form is pretty wicked too, his lance is almost fluid like. It transforms like the T1000's arm from Terminator, taking what ever form Locus's current combat stance favors. It's been used as both a straight up double sided lance to a helicopter-like double edged sword. 


Honorable mentions to Zodd & Grunbeld, they are cool too but I felt like choosing them might be too cliche'.


Which non-apostle creature I like the best, though? Hmmmm. Gotta be Puck. He's a creature, right? :puck: The dude get's a lot of hate nowadays (some of it rightfully so) but he was one of my favorites during the immediate post eclipse portion of the story. It melted my heart when Rickert gave him his due for keeping Guts somewhat sane during his Black Swordsman days. I think there's a possibility he gets some more development soon and steals the hearts of some fans again.
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