Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 15856 times)

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Offline Salem

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #100 on: December 15, 2017, 06:14:46 PM »
Something I find interesting is the user score through RT.  Critically, weíre at 93%.  USER score however is sitting at 58% and dropping.  This, along with the comments Iím reading, has my expectations quite low now. 


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Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2017, 10:47:52 PM »
I enjoyed the movie for what it was. It had some glaring problems Could the dreadnaught chasing the cruiser be any fucking slower? Jesus Christ, come on.

The good:

- The atmosphere was awesome. I felt like they had the same tone as Empire, which is always a plus.
- The visuals were impressive, especially when Holdo hit the deadnaught at light-speed. The whole audience was like "Oh my God". It was awesome.
- Luke standing in front of Kylo and the First Order. Super powerful moment. I only wish they would have had Luke crush one of the AT-ATs with the force like he did in Dark Empire.
- Leia was awesome the entire movie. I think this is the first time I've actually enjoyed her character, actually.
- Kylo killed it. I loved him in this movie. I loved seeing the good in him when he took his thumb off the firing trigger. He still loves his mom. The dude is just the most confused villain in the history of villains. I can't wait for his redemption in Episode 55.
- Hux was cool, even though I hate him. Domnhal Gleason is my man crush, so that's why he's in the good list.
- I felt it ended on a high note. I was afraid they would go full Empire with it and it be a cliffhanger. Glad they decided against it.


The bad:

- The story. The most glaring problem was when Holdo just didn't tell them the plan in the first place. It could have saved Finn and Rose a trip as well as keeping the escape ships safe since DJ never would have said anything.
- The lessons. When Rey immediately goes to the dark side and Luke tells her, it's never revisited. I'm not even sure what the lesson was.
- Did Luke even train Rey, outside of telling her to feel the force?
- Luke's character. I felt like he was all over the place in terms of characterization. He was either serious, funny, or brooding. I still loved him for being on the screen, but old, broken Luke just isn't for me.
- Poe. I have come to the conclusion that I just do not like Poe. At all. All he had was his black X-wing, and now he doesn't even have that.
- Finn. I don't feel like he developed at all from TFA.
- Rey. I think Daisy Ridley is just as confused playing the character as we all are watching her. She's like Luke when he was younger, but just way more naive and dumb.
- Snoke. I don't think he's actually dead. If he is, then I feel like his character was WAY underused and not very menacing.


Aside from the bad, it's still a good movie. I will be seeing it again in theaters for sure=)

Offline Salem

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #102 on: December 16, 2017, 12:06:37 AM »
Want.....to.....press.......spoilers.... :magni:

But really, the fact no one on here is freaking out tells a story.  Sometimes we over react with joy and sometimes we know right away we donít like something.  This just has one big ďeh, itís okĒ written all over it.  Much like the games Iíve played in the last few months (not you, odyssey!) Luke warm is not gonna sit well with my stomach.


Believing in a higher power is just as illusionary as believing life has no ultimate purpose and pretending it does.

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #103 on: December 16, 2017, 12:43:24 AM »
Want.....to.....press.......spoilers.... :magni:

But really, the fact no one on here is freaking out tells a story.  Sometimes we over react with joy and sometimes we know right away we donít like something.  This just has one big ďeh, itís okĒ written all over it.  Much like the games Iíve played in the last few months (not you, odyssey!) Luke warm is not gonna sit well with my stomach.

I think over time, TLJ will be looked upon kindly. Hell, when Empire came out it didnít have a quarter of the praise it has today.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #104 on: December 16, 2017, 01:23:52 AM »
I think over time, TLJ will be looked upon kindly.

I could see that, but I could also see it sharing a fate more akin to the other Jedi and its more mixed reputation, or worse... The Prequels! :magni: Time will tell, though.

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Hell, when Empire came out it didnít have a quarter of the praise it has today.

Yeah, but that's because Empire is one of the best sequels ever and that good. As your own observations note TLJ is not and has little in common with Empire to warrant a comparison besides relative sequential order. I'd also quibble with the idea TLJ has any more of an ending than Empire, which has one of the most memorable climaxes and resolutions in film history despite people focusing on it not ending with a literal explosion like its predecessor and most of its successors (that's part if what makes it better). By contrast, TLJ doesn't go anywhere but where it should have started and a goofy feel good non-sequitor that ties into the least essential part of the movie for better or worse (more reason for that part to exist I guess). Give me the weathered mains staring resolutely out a window any day. Miura should end Berserk that way. =)

Offline JMP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #105 on: December 16, 2017, 01:49:29 AM »
I felt like I watched about 3 movies in one. And not in a good way. There was WAY too much shit going on for my liking. Sometimes less is more and this felt like it was just too cluttered. That being said, there were definitely moments I enjoyed along with some eye-rollers. I think I need to watch it again to see Adam Driver with his shirt offÖ..er I mean view things afresh after I let everything that happened sink in a bit. Not that I can even remember everything that happened. :ganishka: I was a bit tired today, so that may have affected my experience also. I'll give it a second try!
A good sword, even if it rusts and dulls, has good steel that never rusts left over in the wick. That steel's the ultimate steel. Even if it cracks, if you return it to the fire, it's sure to be reborn. - Godot

Offline Proj2501

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #106 on: December 16, 2017, 05:44:56 AM »
Hated it. So, so many lingering questions remain.

Offline Skeleton

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Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #108 on: December 16, 2017, 02:32:17 PM »
Hated it. So, so many lingering questions remain.

I didn't even think that many questions were raised, more like questionable stuff resulting in questions like, "what's up with the force?" (That's not how the force works =) Anyway, I was sort of counting on this one to get a new story arc into motion, but it kind of reset us to starting positions yet again.

So, confirmed that Rey is Luke Force Person, Poe is Lea Leader, Finn is lovable Han Scoundrel, and Kylo is Emperor Vader... but we already assumed some combination of this from the beginning, and TFA was the setup to establish these characters and premises. We didn't need a whole other movie that's plot amounted to a simplistic slow speed chase to set it all up again for... the end, or the beginning (it will be interesting to see if and how Abrams incorporates the literal ending of this film into the next)? Snoke and Luke are already gone and they were nothingburgers, so it's really just going to be Rey overcoming Ren on the character arc front, that's the end game here, but we already saw that in TFA (and nobody cares about the First Order and they dropped Resistance for Rebels halfway through this movie). My point is this is a saga without a story. There's no powerful narrative force propelling it along, it's just sort of existing and reassserting its existence.

There are some interesting meta-themes that developed concerning Rey and the Skywalkers though, and no wonder Johnson is doing a non-Skywalker trilogy since he's clearly an anti-Skywalker Star Wars agnostic, but I'm not a fan of where they're going unless Abrams reverses course, "Not so fast."

Offline Johnstantine

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #109 on: December 16, 2017, 05:36:35 PM »

There's no powerful narrative force propelling it along, it's just sort of existing and reassserting its existence.

I've been trying to put my thumb on it, but that about sums up how I feel. Although I'm not entirely disillusioned, I just wish we had more.

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but I'm not a fan of where they're going unless Abrams reverses course, "Not so fast."


Spoiler alert: he won't.

Hopefully we get an animated series that centers around Luke post-RotJ, pre-TFA. Clone Wars and Rebels actually feel like Star Wars. I'd love to see a Luke-centric series, but for whatever the hell reason the franchise continually shits all over using him outside of the movies or books. As opposed to the movies, I have a lot of faith in an ongoing series.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #110 on: December 16, 2017, 08:02:22 PM »
I've been trying to put my thumb on it, but that about sums up how I feel. Although I'm not entirely disillusioned, I just wish we had more.

Yeah, it's like they're admitting you can't really come home again, just create inspiring allusions to that effect. If that was intentional I can almost talk myself into it. =)

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Spoiler alert: he won't.

Yeah, the dye is cast, now the force is for all the fans out there that believe in themselves *rainbows* and the only Skywalker left is the villain that must be destroyed! *vomit* This is the equivelant of Time Magazine's person of the year being "YOU!" The anti-Skywalkers win, Star Wars is now about random aliens, spaceships, force gibberish and minutia. Not my cup of Star Wars (because it's not).

Quote
Hopefully we get an animated series that centers around Luke post-RotJ, pre-TFA. Clone Wars and Rebels actually feel like Star Wars. I'd love to see a Luke-centric series, but for whatever the hell reason the franchise continually shits all over using him outside of the movies or books. As opposed to the movies, I have a lot of faith in an ongoing series.

Well, they didn't even really use him in the movies anyway beyond that taunting glimpse of what could have been. Why not just have him really show up like that? I guess we're burning the past,
but very weird choice. All these guys cited Luke as their big inspiration or attraction to the project and then they conpletely punted on the chance (I guess Johnson actually ran a fake touchdown play only to kick a field goal that missed... Yeah, still weird. =)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:39:17 AM by Griffith »

Offline Sareth

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #111 on: December 16, 2017, 08:19:01 PM »
I read some spoilers on Reddit that I thought at first were jokes... good thing I didn't have any hope that this trilogy would get better  :schierke:

Offline JMP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #112 on: December 16, 2017, 09:45:21 PM »
Yeah, it's like they're admitting you can't really come home again, just create inspiring allusions to that effect.
That's for sure. For me so far, this new set of films just can't even touch the original trilogy for connection with and believability of characters, the sense of spontaneity and naturalness in the humor, interactions, and plot, and just plain good story telling. For all the money they're throwing at this it just hasn't got the heart and soul those first films possessed. I felt like The Force Awakens set it up with some good potential, but The Last Jedi just didn't do it for me. I really wanted to love it, but a lot of it felt fakey, forced, and therefore flat. There was a lot of junk thrown in there, but little of satisfying substance. I hope Abrams can salvage something decent out of the 3rd installment. I think the acting talent and capacity is there if they would just write a story that would use it effectively. Cut out the junk food overload and get to the meat and taters! :ganishka:

This needs to be Episode 9 so the new trilogy can end on a high note.
Now that's funny! :ganishka:
A good sword, even if it rusts and dulls, has good steel that never rusts left over in the wick. That steel's the ultimate steel. Even if it cracks, if you return it to the fire, it's sure to be reborn. - Godot

Offline ThePiedPiper

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #113 on: December 17, 2017, 01:26:17 AM »
Should I go in with any expectation with Luke? I only care about him, Ben (Kylo Ren), and Leia. Nothing about 'VII' makes me excited to watch another Star Wars movie, and I'm pretty sad about that as a long time fan

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #114 on: December 17, 2017, 05:06:27 AM »
I read some spoilers on Reddit that I thought at first were jokes...

Oh man, some of that stuff would sound so much worse in print.  :ganishka:

I felt like The Force Awakens set it up with some good potential, but The Last Jedi just didn't do it for me. I really wanted to love it, but a lot of it felt fakey, forced, and therefore flat. There was a lot of junk thrown in there, but little of satisfying substance. I hope Abrams can salvage something decent out of the 3rd installment. I think the acting talent and capacity is there if they would just write a story that would use it effectively.

What's funny is I ultimately came away with the same feeling: maybe JJ can salvage this, he gets it! That's pretty funny since Rian Johnson was that last hope before he wasn't. =) I don't think it's meant to be, or TFA is the closest thing to it; that was a pretty impressively jam packed yet fast paced action adventure movie with likable characters, Star Wars or not (also co-written by Kasdan and Michael Arndt). If TLJ wasn't Star Wars on the other hand, I'd find little of it independently compellingly (I sure didn't while watching). Though, it might even be more about Star Wars than TFA was, to the point the nuts and bolts of the plot seem secondary and pointless. I'm trying to decide if it was Rian's intention to make some meta Star Wars deconstruction, a lens which makes the movie sort of work, but the rest is so straightforward that's giving him a lot of credit.

Should I go in with any expectation with Luke?

Nope, and that was the main attraction for me too. Like I said, the fanfic everyone had in their head, including the screenwriters, of him showing up to save the day in the third act of TFA would have been a much more fitting return (but I actually think what they did was better, TLJ just doesn't pay it off properly). Still, it's Luke Skywalker! And they do some interesting things with him regardless, just not what I (or anyone?) hoped. It's like they want him to be bigger than life but then don't know how to reintergrate him into the regular action of Star Wars; like every scene with Luke has to be about "Luke!" and to treat him otherwise is some sort of blasphemy (but he ends up being worse as a result). I think they talked about this making TFA and why they kept pushing his reveal back from the first act to the third to ultimately right out of the movie basically. They would have been better off just ripping off the Band-Aid and sticking him in there so they could move forward with him as a regular character again quicker.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 06:10:56 AM by Griffith »

Offline Salem

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #115 on: December 18, 2017, 12:09:49 AM »
Thatís it?  Really the only response I have.  Struggling with the ideas presented that honestly just felt inconsequential and not meaningful.  Iíll give it time, but honestly Iím not wanting to analyze it more with a second viewing like most previous entries.  That resonates sadness as a long time fan watching the ot on a loop as a young child.


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Offline Walter

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #116 on: December 18, 2017, 01:05:57 AM »
You guys are really killin the mood for the date night I have planned  :judo:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #117 on: December 18, 2017, 02:29:57 AM »
You guys are really killin the mood for the date night I have planned  :judo:

Cancel the hotel room and send the babysitter home early! :ganishka:

Offline Grail

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #118 on: December 18, 2017, 02:57:03 AM »
Dang, guys! I went to the see this with a few friends today, and the party was split about the experience. I see that Twitter is very much the same case, but I'm getting the feeling that the opinions in this thread are leaning more towards the negative. :slan:

I'm going to go ahead and say that I liked this movie more than the Force Awakens. I liked that it was too damn long, and that it made Luke sad and bitter, and that Yoda is a wrinkly little puppet again. I loved that Snoke got offed so unexpectedly and unceremoniously, and that Rey is not the daughter, granddaugher or niece of anybody notable. I did even enjoy the casino plot, Rose, the goofy comedy, the storyline juggling, and the damn porgs.

I think what pleased me the very most about this movie is that it's begun deconstructing and steering away from the ever-looming Skywalker legacy. Back before TFA was announced, one thing that turned me off about the extended universe was its obsessive need to legitimize itself by connecting back to Anakin or Luke, in some sort of space-faring variation of 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon. Now that the Skywalkers are dying off (Griff, as you pointed out, the lone inheritor of the Skywalker bloodline is the bad guy now), the Reys, the Finns, the Roses are the new heroes of Star Wars. I thought that the sentiment was put beautifully by Kylo Ren as he said to Rey, "You're nothing - but not to me." To me, I feel like Johnson is saying: the Skywalkers have played their part, but Star Wars cannot be the story of the Skywalkers alone. Star Wars is a story about nobodies saving the galaxy, and to have TLJ double down on that idea was deeply satisfying to me.


I do understand that a lot of people are responding to this movie as life-long Star Wars fans. I came into the franchise later in life, and I'm not partial to picking out little niggling details, nor am I disappointed by it not "feeling(?)" like a Star Wars film so I think that may have played a part in my enjoyment of it. It's hard to explain. It just felt good coming out of this movie.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #119 on: December 18, 2017, 03:49:20 AM »
It's nice to see someone objectively singing its praises actually, because it's not like it's awful or I even felt that bad coming out either. I was just ultimately disappointed for specific reasons that don't apply to you and think they could have been handled differently, and better, without invalidating what you took away from the movie.

Star Wars cannot be the story of the Skywalkers alone. Star Wars is a story about nobodies saving the galaxy

The first part is true, but the second part most certainly is debatable considering that every movie until recently WAS about the Skywalkers. My quibble is that while they don't have to keep forcing Skywalkers into the main role forever until you're stuck watching Luke's father's brother's sister's cousin's former roomate blowing up Death Star 7, when you've got got Mark fucking Hamill on set reprising the role of Luke Skywalker, the original galaxy saving hero of Star Wars, after 35 years, you might want to DO SOMETHING WITH HIM!!1! :mozgus:

Plenty of time to figure out Star Wars without him later. :griffnotevil: They spent three movies largely doing so alteady, but it's a bit like doing Indiana Jones without Harrison Ford to me. What's the point? Would you rather watch Shia LaBeouf?


Also, gotta disagree on how the rest of the time was spent, because doing Luke and the new kids justice didn't have to be mutually exclusive, much like with Han, where the experience for both was enhanced by their interactions. I felt like not only did Luke get short shrift save for the most base of fan service, but Rey, Finn et al were surprisingly flat as well (and Rose's backstory was a cheap prop trick seen in a million bad movies). And revealing Snoke was a waste of time and keeping Ren a wiener afterward didn't help (and that lightsaber battle was like a Power Rangers fight right down to the sets and costumes, no? =) *ZZZRTT* Ah, my shock therapy kicked back in, I'm ok now. I guess it's fine but other than being "Star Wars" was this that great a movie? It's kind of the quandary, trying to do something new and good but so beholden to old Star Wars references ("durrr, may the force be with you, everybody!"), which may be the yoke from which Rian is freeing the series, but prematurely IMO. Just seems like a bit of a letdown to me that nobody could do this justice before moving on completely, and what we're moving onto is setup to be nothing special either. Basically, they're trying to make a nostalgia act young and hip but with the same gravitas, and as an old Star Wars head I'm not convinced, and wonder if the young, hip people are either.


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It's hard to explain. It just felt good coming out of this movie.

It had an emotionally manipulative ending to give the audience a cheap release of dopamine. The next movie will just have pictures of puppies and babies holding Yoda plushies during the credits. Nu-Star Wars is for everybody and the whole family! =)
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 04:07:41 AM by Griffith »

Offline ThePiedPiper

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #120 on: December 18, 2017, 10:56:30 AM »
Nope, and that was the main attraction for me too. Like I said, the fanfic everyone had in their head, including the screenwriters, of him showing up to save the day in the third act of TFA would have been a much more fitting return (but I actually think what they did was better, TLJ just doesn't pay it off properly).

I do remember hearing people 2 years ago wishing Luke did 'save the day', or at least come in right after that one death. I don't think I wanted anything to happen in particular besides having all of the old characters involved.

I'll never forget the moment I saw the opening crawl, and the words "LUKE SKYWALKER", because it was hard to believe that the movie was really happening. That I was watching a new movie with Luke in it taking place after the events of VI. The rush did nothing to convince me I was not dreaming :rickert:

I think they talked about this making TFA and why they kept pushing his reveal back from the first act to the third to ultimately right out of the movie basically. They would have been better off just ripping off the Band-Aid and sticking him in there so they could move forward with him as a regular character again quicker.

Agreed. If this was a different film series, I wouldn't care. In fact, I'd even say the movie was decent. But I hold every bit of SW content to a high standard. It doesn't always have to be legendary in quality, but it needs to use the old characters responsibly.

I was expecting (or rather, wanted) a simple setup for the plot, perhaps even run-of-the-mill --so long as there was some substance in every part of the formula. No matter what the details were, or what form the quest or conflict took, I wanted the movie to be of a pace that not only rewarded with its climax, but with every step of the way. And that is what many arguments for VII fail to address.

Needless to say, Episode 7 wasn't a predictable film. I certainly wasn't expecting a Death Star III --which was what, Death Star multiplied by the power of Death Star?! If I would have copied anything from previous movies, it would not have been that... :schierke: and the Luke jokes that arose after Episode 7 really spoke to how much they squandered having Mark Hamill on deck (Missing: Grandpa, Last Seen: Walking his pet rock) seriously, none of the jokes were even funny...

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #121 on: December 18, 2017, 03:43:31 PM »
I feel mixed feelings towards this one, though I like it for being a lot more original than TFA, I have to admit some of it left a bad taste in my mouth. There were several characters who were ruined in this film. namely Luke and Yoda, Luke going from his journey in the OT to being a cranky jaded old man just seemed wrong to me, it would be as if in the far future there was a Berserk sequel where Guts was a cowardly old man, and the wise sage like Yoda who once berated Luke for his impatience, never read the Jedi texts?, not buying it

TLJ, for a film that was being marketed as dark and foreboding, had way too much humour Gone are the days where the audience were disturbed by a sith lord so ruthless he killed his own subordinates for their incompetence. Now they get to bust a gut as giant angry holo Snoke literally wipes the floor with General Hux

By in large the films characters made a lot of really poor decisions, Poe's bravado costs the resistance all of their bomber class ships (which incidentally are far more cumbersome and large than the bomber class fighters they piloted 30 years ago) , all so he can destroy one dreadnought, presumably of many. The first order impotently shoots at resistance freighters without ever considering cutting of their escape route by surrounding them, or destroying the rebel base of Krait using their remaining star destroyers, rather than using a ground force assault, Finns love interest, in an act of self sacrifice, prevents Finn from destroying a battering ram cannon, vital to the First Order's plans. Finn and co, on a mission to recruit a code breaker, instead choose to recruit a shady guy whom they never met, who ends up betraying them in the end anyway.
 

Offline Salem

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #122 on: December 18, 2017, 04:00:15 PM »
After sleeping on this Iím quite a bit more negative.  J.J. brought up interesting ideas and Rian has no love for them.  I think this is the problem at its core.  Where both trilogies originally were Lucas, both good and bad, we have no real direction worth talking about.  Itís happening for the sake of happening.  Two visions colliding in the middle of the story. 


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Offline Griffith

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #123 on: December 18, 2017, 04:52:40 PM »
There were several characters who were ruined in this film. namely Luke and Yoda

Yeah, those are some important ones! Though Yoda was pretty well ruined already, to the point this was almost a welcome 180 even though it was a bit too irreverent even for his pre-reveal Dagobah self.

TLJ, for a film that was being marketed as dark and foreboding, had way too much humour Gone are the days where the audience were disturbed by a sith lord so ruthless he killed his own subordinates for their incompetence. Now they get to bust a gut as giant angry holo Snoke literally wipes the floor with General Hux

I didn't mind the humor, but yeah, there's no scary villain in this movie, and they had the potential for at least two or three here. The best moment was the glimpse of "Dark Luke", so if you're going to piss on tradition, go ALL THE WAY and turn Luke to the dark side, not as a cheesy Emperor wannabe, but truly a new Vader, a good man that's seen too much shit and gone bad trying to restore order to the galaxy, and now he's doing it by any means necessary (there's your fuck you to the Jedi tradition, not this weak, aspirational feel good shit =). We know for a fact Mark Hamill is up to it. There we're a lot of potentially great ways to pull this off too. Oh well, we got one last glimpse of Jedi-vision or whatever at least lol

By in large the films characters made a lot of really poor decisions, Poe's bravado costs the resistance all of their bomber class ships (which incidentally are far more cumbersome and large than the bomber class fighters they piloted 30 years ago) , all so he can destroy one dreadnought, presumably of many. The first order impotently shoots at resistance freighters without ever considering cutting of their escape route by surrounding them, or destroying the rebel base of Krait using their remaining star destroyers, rather than using a ground force assault, Finns love interest, in an act of self sacrifice, prevents Finn from destroying a battering ram cannon, vital to the First Order's plans. Finn and co, on a mission to recruit a code breaker, instead choose to recruit a shady guy whom they never met, who ends up betraying them in the end anyway.

And many more, on a practical level the movie made absolutely no sense. Why do mutineers always get put in charge after their mutinies are thwarted in movies? They're usually imprisoned or executed, but certainly removed from the chain of command! It'd be like if you cheated on your spouse and after being found out they let your side piece move in and you're now considered a DOUBLY great partner, only less realistic.

After sleeping on this Iím quite a bit more negative.  J.J. brought up interesting ideas and Rian has no love for them.  I think this is the problem at its core.  Where both trilogies originally were Lucas, both good and bad, we have no real direction worth talking about.  Itís happening for the sake of happening.  Two visions colliding in the middle of the story. 

It's interesting because it really is two competing visions of how to do a modern Star Wars revival, with Abram's representing traditionalism and Johnson a not-quite radical break into freer territory. Frankly, the only way this movie makes sense to me is as an allegory for this argument and a deconstruction of the modern state of Star Wars itself, and a case for the "necessary" rejection of traditionalism. You can see that theme through almost every subplot of the film, old Star Wars tropes and traditions being subverted in favor of a new way that may not be altogether satisfying to old fans at the moment but is arguably inevitable (the alternative being floating along on fumes as long as you can until you run out of fuel =). Now, considering reports that this was all done independently by each film's respective writers and directors, it's interesting that JJ now has the pen back in his hands and COULD reverse course if he sees fit. Rian Johnson acknowledges as much, but considering how strongly he laid the groundwork for his way... man, what reversal that would be now, and it'll be a traditionalist ultimately making the call, albeit with a gun to his head (I agree with Johnstantine, by JJ's nature he ain't rocking the boat unless he's truly pissed Johnson flushed his and the remnants of George's vision completely down the toilet). Part of me hopes Darth Lucas calls JJ on his personal line, "You KNOW what you have to do, my apprentice!" :daiba: :ganishka:
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 05:55:41 PM by Griffith »

Offline Salem

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #124 on: December 18, 2017, 05:22:58 PM »
Hahaha, strange as it sounds I wouldnít put it past him.  Thatís the most trying part of enjoying this ride.  Knowing J.J. is back in episode IX.  What was the point in switching writers only to throw him back in?  I feel the story is already damaged and perhaps going in the original direction, going backwards were something in his mind, will prove a little cheap.  Surprise, super Snoke is Dr Manhattan! 

If Rian had been given a blank slate, something to retool the series, I only wish that scenario been done from the beginning.  Or perhaps J.J. had nothing in mind, only good starting points.  Looking at you Lost.


Believing in a higher power is just as illusionary as believing life has no ultimate purpose and pretending it does.