Author Topic: So i have this theory  (Read 3747 times)

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Offline PraiseTheEclipseBro

So i have this theory
« on: September 25, 2017, 07:59:01 PM »
Does anyone think it is plausible that Casca will use the Beherit?  But in a turn of event she sacrifices herself for guts.

Online Walter

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 08:19:10 PM »
But in a turn of event she sacrifices herself for guts.

Would they then have two brands? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89mVQhJ_rrk
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Sareth

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 09:51:14 PM »
Pretty sure the God Hand would just laugh if she tried.

Offline shinpeiro

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2017, 08:42:52 PM »
Hello everyone,
New to the forums. Been following Berserk since 1999-2000 when I was living in Japan and to the core, a HUGE Hokuto no Ken/Fist of the North Star fan. I own the Dreamcast/PS2 and PS4 games just because I want to support Miura's work. Been reading some info on Skullknight.net off and on for 10 years, but first time I actually registered and I am enjoying the podcasts.

I have a very similar theory with Casca using the Beherit, but a different sacrifice. Although not to be a tease and not explain my theory, but I'm of the mind to let the author do the storytelling and let the fans appreciate his work/art. I'll explain when the series comes to an end. I don't want to jinx anything  :-X  :zodd:
"Struggle, contend, wriggle!"

Offline Aazealh

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2017, 10:56:26 AM »
I have a very similar theory with Casca using the Beherit, but a different sacrifice. Although not to be a tease and not explain my theory, but I'm of the mind to let the author do the storytelling and let the fans appreciate his work/art. I'll explain when the series comes to an end. I don't want to jinx anything  :-X  :zodd:

:schierke:

No one will remember this post ever existed by the time the series come to an end. Sounds like your theory, if it exists, simply can't withstand public scrutiny.

Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2017, 02:40:45 AM »
Does anyone think it is plausible that Casca will use the Beherit?

Doubt it.

Offline shinpeiro

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2017, 12:14:50 AM »
:schierke:

No one will remember this post ever existed by the time the series come to an end. Sounds like your theory, if it exists, simply can't withstand public scrutiny.

It's ok, just commenting on the original thread topic. It doesn't need to be remembered. Lol!
Just glad to be part of the group.
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Offline Lithrael

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2017, 02:26:24 PM »
The trouble with all the edgiest sacrifice ideas in Berserk is that the closest relationships are between people where one or both have already been sacrificed and so are apparently ineligible.  And the runner-up relationships aren't close enough to have the narrative punch to make it interesting storytelling.  I mean, picture Isidro doing it.  My reaction would be 'huh' rather than 'shock!!'  and that's not what Miura wants at all.  We'd have to build up to something with Rickert or even Sonia or Mule to get a sacrifice worth writing. 

My current favorite prospect for sleeper mystery is what is really wrong with Azan.  But since nothing in Elfhelm is freaked out about him it's not likely to be anything that crazy. 

Online Walter

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2017, 05:29:26 PM »
The trouble with all the edgiest sacrifice ideas in Berserk is that the closest relationships are between people where one or both have already been sacrificed and so are apparently ineligible.

Indeed, for a variety of reasons I don't expect the beherit to be used in a traditional manner. It's been around for too long to end up creating "yet another" apostle for Guts to kill. I think it will be used in an alternate way, possibly involving Puck.

Quote
And the runner-up relationships aren't close enough to have the narrative punch to make it interesting storytelling.  I mean, picture Isidro doing it.  My reaction would be 'huh' rather than 'shock!!'  and that's not what Miura wants at all.  We'd have to build up to something with Rickert or even Sonia or Mule to get a sacrifice worth writing. 

Well I'd add Serpico to that list, with a caveat. His future is certainly up in the air right now. But I'm not sure him sacrificing Farnese (and Guts immediately destroying him) would make much sense, or lead to a more interesting story scenario.

Quote
My current favorite prospect for sleeper mystery is what is really wrong with Azan.  But since nothing in Elfhelm is freaked out about him it's not likely to be anything that crazy.

If anything were wrong with him in that regard, it'd have to have been something that could slip past Schierke all this time as well. I think we pretty much know Azan's situation, it just hasn't been explicitly laid out in the story yet.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2017, 09:44:50 PM »
I think all the, relatively, recent emphasis on it's properties as a "key" is a not so subtle indication where things are going, but how we're going to get there and in what state is the interesting part (we can't even be sure how it works anymore in a post-Fantasia world). But like Aaz says, nobody is going to remember our half-baked theories by the time it comes to fruition, so we might as well go nuts: Casca uses it to separate Griffith and the child... somehow? :ganishka: :???:

Or, the more chalk answer, Guts uses it to fast access/confront/kill God Hand(s).

"Who do you wish to sacrifice, struggler? ..." :void:

 :guts: "... YOU, MOTHERFUCKER!" *CLANG* :badbone: <(Surprise! And that's my name for him!)

Offline Menosgade

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 10:00:40 AM »
But like Aaz says, nobody is going to remember our half-baked theories by the time it comes to fruition, so we might as well go nuts: Casca uses it to separate Griffith and the child... somehow? :ganishka: :???:

That just gave me an insight! I could almost forgive you now, Griffith.  :beast:

Morda.

She has a cunning, deceitful look. We've seen that Morda doesn't give much of a f*ck to following restrictions, and if she is not aware of what the Beherit really is and how it works (what seems plausible even for young mages), it might lead to a situation where she has this choice. Maybe it'd happen for a just cause like the one you made up, but possibly with catastrophic results...

I can't see anyone of the group using the Beherit. At least not in the traditional way of ambition -> sacrifice for power -> evil monster.  It definitively would happen in a very specific situation, making a creative use out of it.

How powerful would a sorceress apostle be? What would she sacrifice? How would this affect the island?

If Femto (therefore, IoE) wants to get rid of the mages, what better way to do this than tearing them from inside? I'm pretty sure they can hold their own in a direct fight, if it ever happened.

*inserts huge cliffhanger with a background eclipse*
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 10:21:44 AM by Menosgade »

Offline buttonmasher

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 10:24:36 AM »
I like the idea that Puck is slowly transforming the beherit into something new or some sort of anti-Beherit.  If we're getting crazy here then maybe one day the Beherit starts returning Puck's affection or even starts "talking" to him and giving him inside info.  Maybe Puck has influenced the Beherit enough for it to become the missing component for SK's weaponized collection to work effectively. 
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 10:51:57 AM by buttonmasher »

Offline Masacrator SR

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2017, 07:47:20 AM »
definitely that wont happen. doesnt make any sense for the plot casca being an apostle.
one of many mysteries of berserk.....what will happen with that Beherit.....

1.- A Dwarven blacksmith working on the DS (repairing it) , Dannan comes in and uses the Beherit like a scramble egg over the DS giving it a new property / effect / function , pucks crying and missing his becchi  (So Shounen...oh well...) :puck:

2.- is used to reach closer to the abyss and set the final battle vs Femto, the remaining GH member. Will be cool fighting him in the very abyss with the IoE as background, but the vortex will suck guts right away , lol, unless......reaching there "unbranded" somehow....

Well...my points doesnt make much sense either , so are acording with the thread at least, forgive me Aaz and Walter  =(

Offline Voldo

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 12:13:40 AM »
I'm pretty sure branded people can't use Beherits, so we won't see Casca or Guts using it. Out of everyone in Guts' party I would say Serpico or Farnese would be the most likely to use it. Serpico will do anything to protect Farnese and he could end up using desperate measures somehow.

Also, Schierke warned Farnese about not getting cut by those thorns, and then she does get cut by them. That could have an affect on her mind somehow in the long run? Like some demon disease affecting her?

I also think it could be used by someone outside the party, like Sonia.

Online Walter

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2018, 04:46:52 PM »
I'm pretty sure branded people can't use Beherits,

This has come up a few times, so here's my previous response:

I don't think the series has ruled out a sacrifice using a Beherit. It's just unlikely to happen in the story, and wouldn't make a terrible amount of sense. For years I thought it strictly wasn't possible, because of Conrad's words in Vol 3. But then I noticed something about when God Hand talk are talking about Beherits and "being ordained by causality."

I think what Conrad said had less to do with Guts being a sacrifice, and more to do with his relationship with the Beherit. Conrad said Guts wasn't "ordained" to be among them as an apostle during the Count's ceremony. But shortly afterwards, Guts ends up with a Beherit, which he's carried around ever since. Now, let's recall Ubik's words to Griffith in Volume 12: "From the moment you took possession of that crimson Beherit, you had the qualities to become a demon ... No, perhaps I should say that because you had those qualities, it fell into your hands."

Though these two dialogues are separated by almost 10 volumes worth of material, the thrust of this argument is reinforced by the repeated urgings from Slan (Vol 3, 26) and the specters (Vol 16), for Guts to use it. That could all be merely dramatic tension or a true threat. But if he ever took the offer, it would be a dead-end in terms of the story.


Let's apply that potential outcome to the two most obvious scenarios:

Guts takes the deal, however unlikely that sounds. This effectively ends the series. Guts is no longer a human, and the God Hand have influence over him, just like what happened when Ganishka faced Griffith in Vritannis. Thus, the conflict at the heart of the series would come to a swift and unsatisfying end.

Casca takes the deal. There'd be no saving her from that. Whether he can bring himself to kill her or not, Guts would be demoralized, and his consistent savior to relinquish the Beast's hold on him would be gone.

So... yeah, it's not something I like spending too much time debating. I'm a pragmatic guy, and hypotheticals aren't really my thing. Instead, as we've said here for years, I can't help but think that Miura has bigger plans for it than merely another apostle ceremony.
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Offline Faded

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 05:31:06 PM »
My half-baked (or fully baked, haha) theory is that they somehow figure out a way to imbue Guts's Beherit into the Dragon Slayer, allowing Guts to physically wound the God Hand. It wouldn't shock anyone but it would definitely fit better into the story than some of these various dark sacrifice theories.

Think about how cool a Femto-Guts battle would be if Guts could cleave open portals and attack Femto from all these various angles, with Miura's art only getting better and better that kind of epic fight would be a spectacle to behold.
 
Biggest hole I can poke in my own theory is that having 2 Beherit swords in the same story would be seen by some as redundant, why not just have Skull Knights Beherit sword end up in Guts hands somehow? Still think it would be cool to see Guts have access to teleportation.




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"Man wields the sword so that he may die smiling in some far-off time beyond perception."

Offline Aazealh

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 07:32:31 PM »
My half-baked (or fully baked, haha) theory is that they somehow figure out a way to imbue Guts's Beherit into the Dragon Slayer, allowing Guts to physically wound the God Hand. It wouldn't shock anyone but it would definitely fit better into the story than some of these various dark sacrifice theories.

Aside from Femto, who has been incarnated, the members of the God Hand did not possess physical bodies the last time we saw them. And even if they did, what Guts would need is to be able to harm them on a spiritual level. Which he already can, to a small extent.

Think about how cool a Femto-Guts battle would be if Guts could cleave open portals and attack Femto from all these various angles

Yeah, because Skull Knight's beherit sword technique worked really well against Femto the last time he tried it. :ganishka:

Biggest hole I can poke in my own theory is that having 2 Beherit swords in the same story would be seen by some as redundant

May I also suggest the fact the Skull Knight has swallowed a non-negligeable number of beherits and melted them in his armor, then has to plunge his sword into it to create that technique. You are suggesting that a single beherit be used to replicate that technique on the Dragon Slayer, a vastly larger sword... By a human who couldn't possibly use the same method.

why not just have Skull Knights Beherit sword end up in Guts hands somehow? Still think it would be cool to see Guts have access to teleportation.

Because this technique involves the Skull Knight himself, as I stated above. Also, Guts being able to teleport during fights isn't really how I'd like his character to develop.

Offline Faded

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 07:41:30 PM »
Solid points raised, Aaz. I figured it wouldn't really fly which is why I called it half (or fully) baked.

Everybody needs to have an idea shot down eventually and I'm glad I could get my first out of the way :-)

Yeah, because Skull Knight's beherit sword technique worked really well against Femto the last time he tried it. :ganishka:

I already concede my theory is bogus in general, but this point by you could technically be argued. Femto somehow knew that Skull Knight was going to show up (Sonia is feeding Femto prophecies perhaps?) If somehow Guts was able to wield the Beherit sword that *might* surprise Femto enough that he wouldn't be able to grasp the astral rip caused by Guts swinging it. Maybe.

It still doesn't matter though because like you say there is no evidence Guts will ever be able to use the full power of the Beherit sword. That could change but seems highly unlikely.
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Offline MrFlibble

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 09:12:03 PM »
I think the only plausible candidate for using the Beherit is Serpico. Casca can't use the Beherit when Guts has already been sacrificed, and Griffith is a God Hand member. I doubt the God Hand would trade one of their own for a commom type of demon.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2018, 07:59:43 AM »
I already concede my theory is bogus in general, but this point by you could technically be argued. Femto somehow knew that Skull Knight was going to show up (Sonia is feeding Femto prophecies perhaps?) If somehow Guts was able to wield the Beherit sword that *might* surprise Femto enough that he wouldn't be able to grasp the astral rip caused by Guts swinging it. Maybe.

Beherits are tied to the Idea of Evil. That's where they come from and that's who their master is. There is no guarantee they can effectively be used against their creator or its agents. It is certainly worth trying, as the Skull Knight did, but so far it hasn't borne results.

I think the only plausible candidate for using the Beherit is Serpico. Casca can't use the Beherit when Guts has already been sacrificed, and Griffith is a God Hand member. I doubt the God Hand would trade one of their own for a commom type of demon.

I really don't think anyone in Guts' group will be using that beherit.

Offline Faded

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2018, 05:06:02 PM »

I really don't think anyone in Guts' group will be using that beherit.

It's all fun and games until Sonia joins Guts group.  :ubik:   *adjusts tinfoil hat*

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Offline Archer1215

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2018, 11:55:06 PM »
It's all fun and games until Sonia joins Guts group.  :ubik:   *adjusts tinfoil hat*

I know you’re joking, but I don’t think Sonia will ever leave Griffith’s side.

Offline Faded

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2018, 03:14:44 AM »
I know you’re joking, but I don’t think Sonia will ever leave Griffith’s side.


If you had just discovered Berserk last week and you had only read up until volume 5 or 6, would you say the same about Casca?

I think Sonia is an incredibly interesting character and a total wild card. Its quite the stretch to say she will ever "join" Guts group (which is why I added the tinfoil hat gimmick to my sarcastic comment) but to say she will be unrelentingly loyal to Griffith forever would be assuming too much. At least in my humble opinion. There's more to her story than being part of Griffiths harem, and that I'm certain of.

 Jealousy is a fickle thing.  :griffnotevil:
"Man takes up the sword in order to shield the small wound in his heart sustained during a far-off time beyond remembrance."

"Man wields the sword so that he may die smiling in some far-off time beyond perception."

Offline Archer1215

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2018, 05:48:24 AM »

If you had just discovered Berserk last week and you had only read up until volume 5 or 6, would you say the same about Casca?

I think Sonia is an incredibly interesting character and a total wild card. Its quite the stretch to say she will ever "join" Guts group (which is why I added the tinfoil hat gimmick to my sarcastic comment) but to say she will be unrelentingly loyal to Griffith forever would be assuming too much. At least in my humble opinion. There's more to her story than being part of Griffiths harem, and that I'm certain of.

 Jealousy is a fickle thing.  :griffnotevil:

I don't think she necessarily has to become disillusioned with Griffith in order for her story to become more "interesting" (I agree that Sonia can be a bit of an underappreciated character at times). Her relationship with Schierke will be something interesting to explore in the future. They became friends in Vrittanis and connected due to their shared abnormality, and Sonia confirms that they are destined to meet again in the future. How will their relationship evolve when they find themselves on opposite sides of the battlefield, supporting radically opposing ideals?

Sonia's own relationship with Griffith is also something I would like to have explored a bit more in the future. During Sonia's story that she tells to Schierke in Episode 246, she describes herself as a kite who was the only one who "could fly in the same sky and feel the same wind as the Falcon." Even Griffith himself seems to show a bit of fondness towards her and values her abilities. Their special relationship is not dissimilar to Guts' own relationship with Schierke. I wouldn't be surprised if she knew more about Griffith's true agenda than anyone else in Falconia (even the Apostles).

I don't want to make any broad assumptions, but I think it would be much more interesting if there were a lot of good characters who fought for Griffith's side until the bitter end. Not just Sonia, but Mule, Owen, Foss, and Charlotte, as well as the countless unnamed soldiers and civilians residing behind Falconia's walls. I feel it would be more poetic this way, as well as lead to a more complicated situation when Guts and his allies inevitably turn up at Falconia's walls to oppose Griffith.

Offline Faded

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2018, 03:18:01 PM »
Archer, how interesting would it be if Sonia did have a change of heart?

She helped encourage the humans to fight with the apostles, sure. And she kind of is weirdly comfortable being in the presence of demons. But during those moments she's thinking (I'm assuming a bit here) that this whole war Griffith is waging is for the good of humanity.  :femto:

I don't think we exactly know what the God Hands end game is though we can assume from what we know it doesn't involve the human race living happily ever and all the demons finding day jobs.  :ganishka:

We're entering "throwing stuff against a wall" territory but how about this:

What if one day Sonia has a vision of what the God hand (or specifically Femto's) end game is? What if she sees her poor little owl buddy Schierke impaled on a pike, mountains of corpses surrounding her in this vision? Do you think her school girl infatuation with Griffith will hold sway over someone she can actually relate too like Schierke?

How interesting would it be if Sonia became Guts ace in the hole? What better advantage to have against a being with god-like powers than knowing his next move? You could go all sorts of directions with that kind of theme.

Now I don't think it will go down exactly as I described because that seems a little too simple for me, but there will definitely be some shenanigans involving Sonia & Guts group and I am betting it will work out to the latters advantage.
"Man takes up the sword in order to shield the small wound in his heart sustained during a far-off time beyond remembrance."

"Man wields the sword so that he may die smiling in some far-off time beyond perception."