Author Topic: So i have this theory  (Read 4725 times)

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2018, 08:23:48 PM »
It's all fun and games until Sonia joins Guts group.  :ubik:   *adjusts tinfoil hat*

I don't see your point. You believe Sonia will join Guts' group, then use the beherit to become an apostle? That sounds preposterous.

Offline Archer1215

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2018, 12:19:12 AM »
I don't think we exactly know what the God Hands end game is though we can assume from what we know it doesn't involve the human race living happily ever and all the demons finding day jobs.  :ganishka:

Well, we do know that the whatever their plan is, we do know that the prophesied Age of Darkness isn't something that will last forever.

"I suppose that's what people will call it afterwards. The Age of Darkness." -- Void Slan, Episode 88

This line implies that not only will the Age of Darkness come and go, but that humans will will still be around by the time it ends. I think that's where we are now with the birth of Fantasia.

I have my own ideas for what the Griffith and the other God Hand's agenda is all about, as well as the inevitable conflict between Guts and Falconia (although admittedly none of this is very original):

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The idea behind the creation of Falconia and Fantasia is that they are a fulfillment of mankind’s collective desire. Griffith is called “the desired one” when he is incarnated into the Physical World. He is preying off of the evils created by himself and the other God Hand in order to save people’s lives, offer them salvation, and unite them under his wing so he can steer the course of humanity's destiny. He is creating a new world where the established order is overthrown and replaced with that of the God Hand.

He is saving people, improving their standard of living, and fostering in them a dependence on his power. A power which they don’t understand at all, yet still choose to put all of their hope and faith in. They have everything they need right in front of them to be skeptical of Griffith and his actions. They know he has supernatural powers, that he commands an army of evil demons (he literally tells them to “unleash evil” during the final battle with Ganishka), that everything has worked out flawlessly for him in his war against Ganishka, and that a mysterious Utopian capital city conveniently appeared out of nowhere just he defeated Ganishka and the world became infested with evil monsters. They choose to either ignore all of this or neglect any skepticism they might have because Griffith gives them safety, prosperity, and hope that they would never find on their own. They are blind sheep because they choose to ignore what’s right in front of them and willingly serve evil because it’s convenient for them.

And this is what will make the situation with Guts opposing Griffith more complicated. Because while Femto himself and his actions are evil, there are going to be a lot of people who benefit from those actions in the long run. Griffith will have a lot of good people fighting for his cause to the bitter end, refusing to acknowledge that they are serving evil in doing so. And Guts will be the "villain" for Falconia because he is coming to destroy this safety and prosperity.

I like Sonia as a character, just as I like Mule and Charlotte. But I just don't think this is the type of story where these people wake up, face reality, and relinquish the evil in their hearts. Particularly Sonia, who appears to have a deeper connection with Griffith than anyone else in his ranks. And honestly, I just don't think that would be a very interesting turn of events. The contrary just makes for a far more engaging conflict in my opinion.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 01:35:30 AM by Archer1215 »

Offline Walter

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2018, 12:46:57 AM »
Well, we do know that the whatever their plan is, we do know that the prophesied Age of Darkness isn't something that will last forever.

"I suppose that's what people will call it afterwards. The Age of Darkness." -- Void, Episode 88

That shouldn't be attributed to Void.

Quote
This line implies that not only will the Age of Darkness come and go, but that humans will will still be around by the time it ends. I think that's where we are now with the birth of Fantasia.

That's not actually what the line implies. You're extrapolating too much from how Dark Horse chose to localize the line. Here's what it implies: Dark times are ahead.

Quote
I like Sonia as a character, just as I like Mule and Charlotte. But I just don't think this is the type of story where these people wake up, face reality, and relinquish the evil in their hearts. Particularly Sonia, who appears to have a deeper connection with Griffith than anyone else in his ranks. And honestly, I just don't think that would be a very interesting turn of events. The contrary just makes for a far more engaging conflict in my opinion.

I really don't understand your take here. I guess sure, she could remain on the same linear path that she's been on since her introduction through the duration of the series. But that sounds terribly boring given all the other avenues there are to explore.

Yes, Sonia is infatuated with Griffith, and she has a unique place near the center of the union between humans and apostles. But both of those contexts provides a pathway for rebellion, because of everyone in Griffith's camp, she's in the greatest position to learn just enough to push her over the edge of accepting the facade that Griffith has cast over humanity. Add to that, the connection she made with Schierke, and her understanding that witches aren't all evil beings worthy of being purged, and the continued urgings from Miura that she and Mule are characters readers can sympathize with, none of these things to me add up to someone who will ultimately remain a dyed-in-the-wool supporter of Griffith.

Offline Archer1215

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2018, 01:18:09 AM »
That shouldn't be attributed to Void.

Oops. It should be Slan. My mistake.

That's not actually what the line implies. You're extrapolating too much from how Dark Horse chose to localize the line. Here's what it implies: Dark times are ahead.

What exactly does the original Japanese text say? I thought about that myself, but I can only really use Dark Horse as a reference.

I really don't understand your take here. I guess sure, she could remain on the same linear path that she's been on since her introduction through the duration of the series. But that sounds terribly boring given all the other avenues there are to explore.

Yes, Sonia is infatuated with Griffith, and she has a unique place near the center of the union between humans and apostles. But both of those contexts provides a pathway for rebellion, because of everyone in Griffith's camp, she's in the greatest position to learn just enough to push her over the edge of accepting the facade that Griffith has cast over humanity. Add to that, the connection she made with Schierke, and her understanding that witches aren't all evil beings worthy of being purged, and the continued urgings from Miura that she and Mule are characters readers can sympathize with, none of these things to me add up to someone who will ultimately remain a dyed-in-the-wool supporter of Griffith.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of static characters, and I definitely think there are a lot interesting avenues to explore with Sonia's character. Especially as you said with her friendship with Schierke and the potential of her being distraught if (when) Griffith ever makes a move to kill more magic users. I think there is a lot of potential for conflict with Sonia, as well as with Mule, Charlotte, and Laban.

My main issue is with the idea that these characters have to turn heel on Griffith in the end in order to be complex or sympathetic characters (I know you aren't saying that, but I get the impression this is what a lot of people feel). I think it would be a much more interesting way for these characters to develop if they have these conflicts and reservations about Griffith while still continuing to be devoted to his cause, because they still genuinely believe in it. It just makes for more dramatic and engaging storytelling IMO.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 04:12:38 AM by Archer1215 »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2018, 05:39:39 AM »
What exactly does the original Japanese text say? I thought about that myself, but I can only really use Dark Horse as a reference.

People will call it the Age of Darkness. The idea that "it must end first for people to then call it that" is a step too far. If you asked Raban, he'd probably call it that right now.

I have my own ideas for what the Griffith and the other God Hand's agenda is all about, as well as the inevitable conflict between Guts and Falconia (although admittedly none of this is very original)

I mostly agree with your take (or rather, yours mostly agrees with mine from a decade ago :flora:), but I think you understate the fact people don't have a choice. They either live in Falconia or die outside. And the last time we saw someone try to leave, Rakshas was going after them.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2018, 12:34:02 PM »

I mostly agree with your take (or rather, yours mostly agrees with mine from a decade ago :flora:), but I think you understate the fact people don't have a choice. They either live in Falconia or die outside. And the last time we saw someone try to leave, Rakshas was going after them.

Rickert is kinda a special case though since he knows stuff people don't about Griffith. What I Wonder though is : can a human leave Falconia on his own without being persued? Now I know they would probably not last long outside the protection of Falconia, which comes back to your point that they don't really have a choice. But would they be allowed to leave?

Offline Archer1215

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2018, 12:56:56 PM »
Rickert is kinda a special case though since he knows stuff people don't about Griffith. What I Wonder though is : can a human leave Falconia on his own without being persued? Now I know they would probably not last long outside the protection of Falconia, which comes back to your point that they don't really have a choice. But would they be allowed to leave?

I don’t see why they wouldn’t be allowed to leave. Why should Griffith care about the odd person or few people that want to leave the city? I think it’s just a case of people being free to go as they please but Falconia being the only truly safe place to be. And why would anyone want to leave Falconia in the first place? There is enough food for everyone, the standard of living is better than it was before the Blast, and all of the people seem to have a shared, unifying purpose.

Rickert was definitely a special case. Whether an attempt was made on his life because he assaulted and denied Griffith or because Rakshas decided to attack him of his own volition. I don’t think Griffith or Locus are ordering hits on anyone that voices their dissent (not that there would be that many).

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2018, 01:09:39 PM »
Well, as it was pointed already they don't really have a choice anyway. But if for an unkown reason, some people start to put the pičces together and figure out it would be wiser to leave, would they be stopped or not? That was more the question. And I ask that because that's kinda the plan, to get a shitload of people in the only "safe" city.

Offline Archer1215

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2018, 04:46:26 PM »
And I ask that because that's kinda the plan, to get a shitload of people in the only "safe" city.

I'm not convinced that is the plan if I'm being honest, although it is definitely an important step. I don't believe Femto merged the worlds together simply for the purpose of herding people together into the only safe city in the world and bringing the other God Hand to the Physical World. And from the latest episode, we know that his interests do still lie beyond Falconia for some reason. I wouldn't be surprised if he plans to retake Midland territory before ascending to the throne, and beyond that, who knows? Maybe he will extend his influence to other nations as well. After all, why settle for a city state when you can have a Millennium Empire? Falconia seems more like the launching pad for a greater plan than the actual endgame.

And like I said, I really do believe the Rickert situation was a special case, although I doubt anyone is in a hurry to leave the safety Falconia offers. If there was a faction trying to leave the city? Well, thinking on it a bit more, I don't think they would be allowed to leave, but it would probably be dressed up in a way that makes it seem like it is being done for their own safety. I doubt Griffith wants chaos behind his walls, and he would probably try to find a non-violent way to resolve the issue. Besides, that's a pretty big hypothetical. It really isn't the wisest option to leave the city right now, and I don't think there has been any indication that Griffith has any malicious intentions for his future subjects. I don't think that's the direction the story is heading in with regards to Falconia.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2018, 04:57:10 PM »
If there was a faction trying to leave the city? Well, thinking on it a bit more, I don't think they would be allowed to leave, but it would probably be dressed up in a way that makes it seem like it is being done for their own safety.

Well there you go, you just answered in your words my question. It was more of a "what do you think" question.

Like you said and like it has been said multiple times on the board, I do not think either that it's the only plan they have of course. But the main part of their unknown plan is that for the moment. Get people in Falconia and have yourself a better control over humanity.

But hey it's still feasable to live outside of Falconia anyway and with the good knowledge (that say, Guts group and the magic users) people would be able to better live outside the walls and have at least a choice where they want to live. I don't know if I express myself clear enough but Aaz did touch what I'm trying to convey in another thread. Being told :" Sure you can leave whenever you want" knowing that you won't last long outside is still being some kind of "no choice anyway" when we know it's not true because there are ways to make it alive outside Falconia.

Remove the knowledge or prevent it from getting to the people they sure won't try to find another option.

but thx for sharing your opinion on the subject.

Ps: I'm pretty sure griffith has something not that nice in mind somehow. He is a demon after all and was explicitely shown that they are after all, evil.  :femto:

Offline Faded

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2018, 05:33:43 PM »
I don't see your point. You believe Sonia will join Guts' group, then use the beherit to become an apostle? That sounds preposterous.

I'm terrible at sarcasm it seems.  :sad:
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Offline Archer1215

Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2018, 06:47:15 PM »
Ps: I'm pretty sure griffith has something not that nice in mind somehow. He is a demon after all and was explicitely shown that they are after all, evil.  :femto:

Of course. He has already done quite a few evil things, and he will more than likely do many more in the future. I just don't think his plans necessarily end with any dire consequences for the people of Falconia (aside from perhaps a trip to the Vortex for unwittingly serving evil, but we aren't sure how that works yet). For example, I don't think he is going to become a tyrant and rule oppressively, nor do I think his people are going to end up as Apostle chow. I believe things are going to be a lot more complicated than that, and that the minority of humans who end up surviving the dangers of Fantasia may even end up benefiting from his actions in the long run.

I just don't think that because the God Hand are "Evil with a capital E" that their plan necessarily has to end with everyone in Falconia dying and/or suffering. That doesn't sound very interesting to me, and if that was indeed their endgame, then Griffith would have no reason to continue playing the savior. To me it seems (like you said) that their aims are more to influence them for some purpose. Maybe creating a world where what's left of humanity prospers yet the forces of evil control everything sounds contradictory, but I think it could be an interesting avenue to explore. Especially when you factor in everything that will have been destroyed and sacrificed for them to get to that point.

What if humanity learns the truth about Griffith and that all of these evils that are tormenting them were the doing of his faction, yet still cling to him because they see him as their only hope? Him being a religious figure associated with the Holy See, what if they take these evils as being tests from God that he helped them overcome, or that they were chosen specifically by their God to receive these benefits? There are so many interesting possibilities to explore with Falconia and Griffith's kingship.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: So i have this theory
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2018, 06:55:46 PM »
Sure sure. I think we pretty have the same kind of thought about the subject. I was just curious about if they would be allowed to leave (lets say some hear about another safe haven) or not. As in, if they leave, Griffith will have less people Under control. Now don't get me wrong, I know there is a shit load of people in Falconia and it would need to be a semi big outgoing to make him react but I dunno. Maybe an apostle would take it in his own hand to decide that one cannot go.

Very interesting to talk about it though. It was fun!  :guts: