Author Topic: Episode 353  (Read 8132 times)

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Offline DANGERDOOOOM

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2018, 11:18:58 PM »
Oh. My. GOD. THAT ENDING THOUGH

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2018, 12:52:47 AM »
I'm surprised the Dragon Slayer was brought along with the armor, I really thought that it would be a separate escalation to the scene once they seem to be out of everything. It looks like that's Flora instead, and how great and unexpected is that. Good call on the hat Aaz, Miura really did go out of his way to point out the sentiment Schierke has with it. Mozgus really is getting a lot of action in this arc.  :mozgus:

Really creative fighting with the dog and Falcon. The cannon out the mouth is perfect dream imagery. And once again, Miura called back on old Apostle designs, keeping things very consistent throughout.

The demon child is an interesting touch. We'll see if it's just a token like the others or if we'll get something different. It certainly does add a lot of emphasis on the importance of the child, which seems conisistent with the idea that it will factor in heavily in the series endgame.

Thanks Aaz and Puella on the quick translation!


Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2018, 04:02:34 AM »
Thank you so much for the summary, Aaz and Puella!

This was such a great episode. It really kept me on the edge of my seat. I was happy with the Dream Guts vs Dream Femto fight. I was a bit worried with how that would play out, but I was very happy that it fit in with the strange, dreamlike atmosphere. I should have expected no less.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2018, 06:09:31 AM »
I was happy with the Dream Guts vs Dream Femto fight. I was a bit worried with how that would play out, but I was very happy that it fit in with the strange, dreamlike atmosphere. I should have expected no less.

Yeah, same thing here, was happy with how it turned out. Although I do wonder whether it's really over or not. I feel like there's a window for a continuation after the memory if Miura wants to. Would give the scene some urgency/tension, allow the the girls to reflect on the symbols, plus provide an opportunity for Casca herself to make the decision to end it, to wipe it all away. Also that exposed eye is kind of asking to get gouged. :iva:

Offline Menosgade

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2018, 11:58:37 AM »
I'm surprised the Dragon Slayer was brought along with the armor, I really thought that it would be a separate escalation to the scene once they seem to be out of everything.

I was surprised by it being the dog's tail, and by the cannon. I had imagined being held in the mouth, what would echo with Gut x Count fight. And also pleasy my Dark Souls enthusiasm (Sif). However, the cannon would probably end in a questionable spot...  :???:

Offline DarkAdin

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2018, 03:08:50 PM »
Whose .... Schierke's?
The look in Flora's eyes, it's simply so well done. So calm yet so expressive. The art in Berserk is becoming so extraordinarily good, it hurts.

And it's a good turn that the child is going to be the last piece. The challenge for Casca now is to put that piece into her life, to find a place for it in her conscious life, and make conscious decisions about it and face the consequences, which are going to be truly decissive in the future. Perhaps in the future the mother will be able to add more insight on this matter. I feel that only his parents alone will have the power to use the key their child represents: a human pathway to Femto's weakness
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 04:18:59 PM by DarkAdin »
Time fades even legend

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2018, 03:40:41 PM »
The challenge for Casca now is to put that piece into her life, to find a place for it in her concious life, and make concious decisions about it and face the consequences, which are going to be truly decissive in the future. Perhaps in the future the mother will be able to add more insight on this matter. I feel that only his parents alone will have the power to use the key their child represents: a human pathway to Femto's weakness

Great point here on the symbolism of it being a part she needs to embrace to become complete.

Offline Delta Phi

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2018, 06:25:10 PM »
I've been relatively absent over the last month so there were a lot of unexpected things that happened in this episode: Dragon-Slayer-tail, Femto's eye, Flora and Danan, the Demon Child...all of it gave me chills (and maybe just a subtle sting in my eyes :slan:)

Thanks for the summary Aaz and Puella! I'm really enjoying this dream sequence progression, even if internally I just keep screaming to see a restored Casca. The journey has certainly been entertaining, and each episode keeps me at the edge of my seat!

Offline m

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2018, 08:32:38 PM »

Wow! Simply amazing.  :ubik:

Not only does Miura not disappoint, hes continually exceeding my expectations. Its been said many times before but, the fact that he continues to deliver after almost thirty years of working on Berserk, is immensely impressive.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2018, 09:04:25 PM »
And it's a good turn that the child is going to be the last piece. The challenge for Casca now is to put that piece into her life, to find a place for it in her conscious life

Not to nitpick, but the child as we see him here is "only" the symbol that will trigger the memories. I would be very surprised if the actual scenes contained within were only focused on him, without featuring what led to his creation: Casca's rape by Femto. I'm repeating myself but the rape is the event that actually broke her mind and that informs everything that's been going on in this dream.

Offline DuskSprite

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2018, 04:13:40 PM »
Oh my god what an incredible episode. For some reason all I can think of when I see Mozgus is this sound. I laughed like an idiot at Dog Guts' mouth cannon (of course it'd be in his mouth!) and seeing Flora again literally brought tears to my eyes. :judo:

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2018, 12:29:26 AM »
Not to nitpick, but the child as we see him here is "only" the symbol that will trigger the memories. I would be very surprised if the actual scenes contained within were only focused on him, without featuring what led to his creation: Casca's rape by Femto. I'm repeating myself but the rape is the event that actually broke her mind and that informs everything that's been going on in this dream.

Do you believe we could be getting any post-Eclipse memories with this last fragment? There are some things that I believe would be a waste for Farnese and Schierke to not become privy to, most notably Guts' sexual assault on Casca before he began traveling with the party (something that not even Puck has knowledge of). I also believe things such as the Demon Child's birth, it's rescue of Casca that began the Incarnation Ceremony, and her reaching out to Griffith when she sensed her child had merged with his new body would also be worth showing. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Offline Death May Die

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2018, 01:49:28 AM »
This dream arc has been absolutely amazing. I'm so excited to see this all play out! I been waiting nearly half of my life for this! The dog as been awesome for sure! The Dog Berserker Armor concept, Dragonslayer, and hand cannon tactics (which proves to still surprise me even today) have been visually stunning.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2018, 12:53:46 PM »
Do you believe we could be getting any post-Eclipse memories with this last fragment?

I think it's possible, see what I've said in previous posts so far. It's not necessarily how I would want it to go, though. Like I've been saying, the big question would be how to reconcile the events of the Eclipse, which are a LOT to get through, with post-Eclipse (and therefore post-insanity) stuff.

You say you want Schierke and Farnese to see Guts' assault on Casca from volume 23, plus various interactions Casca has had with her son over the story... And my answer is sure, but isn't that too many things at once? Wouldn't bundling all of these events together lower their individual impact and meaningfulness? So far the memories have been pretty focused and straightforward. And this is all about what drove Casca insane in the first place, which is why it would odd if we were to see stuff that happened after she lost her mind.

Besides, it's not like these things can't be addressed at a later time. Guts' abuse towards Casca could be discussed directly by the two of them. I'm not sure there's much to be gained by making it a group thing. The same goes for the huge revelation that Femto has usurped the body of Guts and Casca's son, resulting in the Moonlight Boy's existence. It's huge and could easily be its own completely separate event.

Now to change topics a bit, I've been thinking about the nature of Casca's trauma and specifically why those traumatic memories would be best represented by the Demon Child. Earlier in the thread I replied to Mage who was saying he hoped Casca's love for her son would be revealed to transcend her instinct as a mother and be something she felt even "through" her broken mind. One of the easiest guesses is that the corruption of her child (more than the rape itself and the associated humiliation) was the cause for her madness. She couldn't bear it. In that case the culmination of the memory could be her feeling something inside, knowing somehow that the corruption took place.

Now another possibility that occurred to me is that maybe she lost her mind precisely because she couldn't love her son, knowing what he was. Much like Guts himself struggled to accept him (euphemism of the year). Maybe she could love him only because she was broken, and maybe in a way that's the purpose her broken mind served. Maybe that's why it happened. That would also (conveniently) provide an easy way for her to return, if the girls can communicate to her that things have changed or something.

Just food for thought.

Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2018, 01:36:08 PM »
Now another possibility that occurred to me is that maybe she lost her mind precisely because she couldn't love her son, knowing what he was. Much like Guts himself struggled to accept him (euphemism of the year). Maybe she could love him only because she was broken, and maybe in a way that's the purpose her broken mind served. Maybe that's why it happened. That would also (conveniently) provide an easy way for her to return, if the girls can communicate to her that things have changed or something.

Just food for thought.

Now that is an interesting thought. Especially since we all pretty much assume that Casca will be the one who will want something to be done about her child. I think it would be fantastic if Casca's feelings towards her child were just as complicated as Guts' were, but in her own way.

As for your other points, I understand and agree with what you're saying to a point. I do think that rushing through all of these things at once would be a bit problematic and lessen the narrative weight they should have on their own. I think I'm just letting my own opinions and view of the story color what I expect to actually happen. When I first learned that Farnese and Schierke (two people who love and admire Guts) would be going on a dream quest into Casca's subconscious, then it just seemed obvious to me they would be seeing these things. "Of course they're going to see Guts' assault. why wouldn't they?" It was the perfect scenario, the perfect two characters to see it happen firsthand so it could color their perception of Guts. To me it just makes sense to show it now.

But as I've thought about it over the past year or so, I've come to realize this sequence isn't really about that. It isn't about Farnese and Schierke gaining some form of knowledge that makes them rethink the sort of person Guts is. Nor is the point of this sequence really to drop a big bombshell about the Demon Child. This sequence is about Casca, her trauma, and her coping with that trauma. This is her healing process and anything that gets revealed should be focused on howshe feels about those things.

All that being said, I do still think we could have these reveals during this sequence without detracting from their individual impact. It all depends on the execution and the pacing. If this sequence lasts a few more episodes to properly explore Casca's feelings on these topics, then yeah I could see them working. But as for cramming all of this stuff into a single episode or two, no, I don't believe that will happen, nor do I think it would give any of these moments the impact they each deserve.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2018, 03:12:21 PM »
Something that's kind of obvious but I haven't mentioned so far: Casca might have felt the corruption of her son through her Brand. Imagine how awful that would be... That could have happened during the rape or at some point afterwards e.g. while unconscious, before she first woke up in the cave).

Now that is an interesting thought. Especially since we all pretty much assume that Casca will be the one who will want something to be done about her child. I think it would be fantastic if Casca's feelings towards her child were just as complicated as Guts' were, but in her own way.

Yeah, I mean I still think Casca will be extremely focused on her son and wanting what's best for him, but it doesn't have to be an "all black or all white" deal.

As for your other points, I understand and agree with what you're saying to a point. I do think that rushing through all of these things at once would be a bit problematic and lessen the narrative weight they should have on their own. [...] But as for cramming all of this stuff into a single episode or two, no, I don't believe that will happen, nor do I think it would give any of these moments the impact they each deserve.

I really don't see the memories lasting three or four episodes, which is why I brought that up. I think we have two or three episodes left for the dream sequence as a whole.

When I first learned that Farnese and Schierke (two people who love and admire Guts) would be going on a dream quest into Casca's subconscious, then it just seemed obvious to me they would be seeing these things. "Of course they're going to see Guts' assault. why wouldn't they?"

Wow, really? No offense but that's a strange way to approach it... I mean like you say you've since realized, this whole venture isn't about that at all, it's about Casca, her trauma and trying to bring her back. And the secondary aspect, which is not to be overlooked, is giving Farnese and Schierke a window into who Casca really was, her relationship with Guts and Griffith, and what broke her. That will allow them to relate to her and become her friends after she's back. It also further puts an end to Farnese's little crush on Guts (which I think will effectively end at some point not long after Casca wakes up), which is another step in her personal development.


Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2018, 05:55:26 PM »
Something that's kind of obvious but I haven't mentioned so far: Casca might have felt the corruption of her son through her Brand. Imagine how awful that would be... That could have happened during the rape or at some point afterwards e.g. while unconscious, before she first woke up in the cave).

Wow, really? No offense but that's a strange way to approach it... I mean like you say you've since realized, this whole venture isn't about that at all, it's about Casca, her trauma and trying to bring her back. And the secondary aspect, which is not to be overlooked, is giving Farnese and Schierke a window into who Casca really was, her relationship with Guts and Griffith, and what broke her. That will allow them to relate to her and become her friends after she's back. It also further puts an end to Farnese's little crush on Guts (which I think will effectively end at some point not long after Casca wakes up), which is another step in her personal development.

Yeah, haha. To defend myself a bit, I think my thought process at the time wasn't too divorced from logic. Farnese and Schierke (the two people who are arguably the closets to Guts and admire him the most) were going on a journey into Casca's subconscious to help her deal with her trauma. The event in question was something of a turning point for Guts' character where here realized that he couldn't defend Casca alone from both the spirits the chased them and himself, so he decided to begin traveling with companions again. But that moment itself is kind of special in that literally no one else has any knowledge of it. Not even Puck, who has seen Guts do all sorts of bad things when they were traveling together alone. And in my head, I never really saw the moment of Farnese and Schierke learning of this fact as the primary conflict of the dream sequence, but as a sideshow which they would put in the back of their minds until they could confront Guts about it in person. I thought it would be a great way for Guts to finally be forced to tell everyone about the Beast of Darkness and lead to something where everyone wants to help him deal with that.

But after thinking about it a bit, I think it would be more fitting if only Casca herself was the one to talk with Guts about it. It still brings about the same result, but frees up this dream sequence to continue focusing on Casca, her trauma, and her healing process. I agree that there really isn't any reason to focus on all this stuff at once when there is plenty of time for them to talk about it later.

Offline Mangetsu

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2018, 08:30:01 PM »
One thing i wonder about is if Miura may begin the dream sequence with Episode 71, where Casca kinda realized that she is pregnant. But at the same time the last fragment is  the main trigger for her current state and it was obviously caused by the rape, so im not sure if it would be the most logical thing to do.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2018, 09:15:33 PM »
Farnese and Schierke (the two people who are arguably the closets to Guts and admire him the most)

How exactly do you measure Schierke or Farnese's admiration for Guts compared to Isidro's? Seems like a specious assertion.

I thought it would be a great way for Guts to finally be forced to tell everyone about the Beast of Darkness and lead to something where everyone wants to help him deal with that.

You assume Guts has a clear understanding of what the Beast of Darkness is, which isn't really the case. He mostly ends up confused whenever they interact. The Beast of Darkness is a characterization of his dark pulsions (resulting from his trauma) that exists for the benefit of the reader. If you asked Guts himself I think he'd just say he has a problem dealing with certain thoughts/urges, which is true. Furthermore I don't think it's something his friends could actively help him with, it's mostly an introspective work on his psyche... The one person that could help? Casca.

One thing i wonder about is if Miura may begin the dream sequence with Episode 71, where Casca kinda realized that she is pregnant.

There is absolutely no evidence Casca "kinda realized" she was pregnant in episode 71. In fact it is basically impossible, given how recent the conception was at the time.
Rather I think she holds her chest because she's very distraught by what just happened with Griffith in the wagon.

Offline Mangetsu

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2018, 02:55:23 AM »
Miuras comment


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2018, 07:14:51 AM »
Miura's comment:
The dog rampages as the year of the dog begins. The manga IS in luck! ヽ(▽`)/

Offline Mangetsu

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2018, 02:40:45 PM »
Miura's comment:
The dog rampages as the year of the dog begins. The manga IS in luck!

That's awsome. His comment goes along with this years post card that he had drawn  :daiba:


Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2018, 02:47:36 PM »
That's awsome. His comment goes along with this years post card that he had drawn  :daiba:

This is nothing special, his new year postcards have been themed after the Chinese New Year for at least a decade.

Offline RaffoBaffo

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Re: Episode 353
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2018, 04:26:38 PM »
This is nothing special, his new year postcards have been themed after the Chinese New Year for at least a decade.
And now I have to find the rest of those cards.
May those who accept their fate be granted happiness.
May those who defy their fate be granted glory.

Offline Johnny Apples

Re: Episode 353
« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2018, 05:30:52 PM »
This is nothing special, his new year postcards have been themed after the Chinese New Year for at least a decade.

Still, it would be awesome if the Berserker Armor-clad Dog Guts appeared on the cover of volume 40   :beast:  :daiba: