Author Topic: Will Casca return to Griffith?  (Read 2843 times)

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Offline Foreverjung

Will Casca return to Griffith?
« on: February 13, 2018, 05:25:34 PM »
I was just wonderring about what Skullnight  once said to Guts, about what wanted may not be what Casca wants. So what do you guy's think. Will she return to Griffith's side once her memory is restored? Will the fact that Griffith's body is her son's sway her mind? Discuss!

Offline Walter

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2018, 05:38:29 PM »
I was just wonderring about what Skullnight  once said to Guts, about what wanted may not be what Casca wants. So what do you guy's think. Will she return to Griffith's side once her memory is restored? Will the fact that Griffith's body is her son's sway her mind? Discuss!

Femto raped Casca and turned her son into an inhuman. What mental gymnastics are you pulling in your head for her to want to "return to Griffith?"

When Skull Knight mentions the dilemma (what you want may not be what she wants), it was brought up within the context of restoring her mind, which could imply that she does not want to be restored.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Joe Chip

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2018, 05:48:00 PM »
The dilemma that Skull Knight proposes is within the context of restoring her mind, implying that she may not want to be restored.
Could it also mean that she may not want the revenge that Guts wants. I honestly always perceived it like that.

Offline Walter

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2018, 05:49:35 PM »
Could it also mean that she may not want the revenge that Guts wants. I honestly always perceived it like that.

Well, I wasn't stating it in absolute terms, just noting that the line had context, which could inform us about SK's cryptic prophecy.
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Offline Archer1215

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2018, 08:56:37 PM »
Will the fact that Griffith's body is her son's sway her mind? Discuss!

I think it will definitely play a role in whatever her reason to fight turns out to be. But she isn't going to join Griffith. The only emotions she should be having for Griffith at this point are betrayal and revulsion. She isn't like Rickert, who was not present for the Eclipse and found something new to protect in Erica to help him grow past the loss of the Falcons. She was there to experience the horrors of the Occultation Ceremony herself, and she has been in a regressive state for the past few years and so hasn't been able to work through her trauma yet. We're going to be getting the latter after this mission in the Road of Dreams is over; this won't be the end of Casca's mental and emotional turmoil. But once she does finally work through it, I can all but guarantee she won't be fighting at Griffith's side.

However, while I do think she will be fighting with Guts and the party, I don't know if she will accept revenge as her motivation. She will almost definitely hate Griffith, but her forming a vendetta will do nothing but feed Guts' own desire for vengeance that he has been putting on hold until Casca was safe in Elfhelm. I think Casca will find her own reason to fight that goes beyond her former loyalty to Griffith or taking revenge with Guts, perhaps something involving her child. Not only would this create tension between her and Guts on what their next objective would be (it pushes Guts even further away from going after revenge), it also creates a major conflict for both Guts and Casca, as killing Griffith would most likely also kill their child. But I nevertheless see them opposing Griffith together, even if they aren't completely on the same page at first.

Side note, but I would also love to see Casca take her proper position as the Unit Commander of the Band of the Falcon. While I see Guts remaining as the de facto leader and beacon of inspiration for the party, I could see Casca taking up a co-leadership position with him, and bringing more authority and discipline to the way the group fights and operates. And when they eventually reconvene with Rickert, I could also see them coming together and waving the banner of the original Band of the Falcon to oppose Griffith's Neo-Band of the Falcon. This is actually something I think is a very strong possibility for the future of the story, and I couldn't be more excited for it. But Casca will probably have to deal with things such as depression and PTSD, as well as regain her confidence as a leader and warrior. Her slowly finding her way back to the confident warrior she used to be and eventually retaking her role as the commander of the Falcons would be an amazing character arc for her that could last the rest of the series.

I'm also expecting a lot of time to be spent with her building relationships with the rest of Guts' Band. I'm particularly looking forward to her interactions with Isidro. I could see her becoming a sort of "big sister" to him that tries to instill discipline in him and talk with him more about what it really means to be a soldier/swordsman.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:26:45 PM by Archer1215 »

Offline DERA

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 05:55:09 PM »
It probably won't be the case, but ever since I read the chapter where Skull Knight uttered those words, I've wondered whether there might be a twist to this. What if it's Guts that ends up having doubts? He's been stricken with guilt for abandoning Casca and has tried his hardest to make things right. If Casca returns to normal, leaving all the crap behind and starting a new life with her at his side might start to sound tempting. Conversely, we don't know how fresh the Eclipse is in Casca's mind. Does she remember the time that's passed, or will it be like waking a day after? She might feel even more hatred that Guts for what happened.

As I said, it probably won't be the case, but I always thought this might be an interesting idea to explore.

Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 06:19:58 AM »
I truly hope that casca won't resent Guts in any way. He has been through too much as it is.
/center]

Offline Lord Leith

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 10:08:11 PM »
I'm pretty sure that Casca has no direct affection or love for Griffith himself, so her joining his side is extremely unlikely. After all that she's been through, Im sure that she'll at least feel resentment and at most feel hatred but I do think its fair to say that due to Griffith using her child as a vessel for his rebirth that subconsciously she may have an indirect soft spot towards Griffith, but again, this is less so affection for Griffith than it is her own child. How she'll come into grips with this internal conflict, I have no idea but it is something I look forward to potentially discovering now that Casca has awakened out of her broken mind state.

Offline Voldo

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 11:58:31 PM »
I never understood were people got this idea from. She clearly hates Griffith now...

What SK was referring to was something along the lines of her not wanting to be healed, perhaps not even wanting to be alive.

Offline SleepersWake

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2018, 08:44:01 PM »
[...] What if it's Guts that ends up having doubts? He's been stricken with guilt for abandoning Casca and has tried his hardest to make things right. If Casca returns to normal, leaving all the crap behind and starting a new life with her at his side might start to sound tempting. Conversely, we don't know how fresh the Eclipse is in Casca's mind. Does she remember the time that's passed, or will it be like waking a day after? She might feel even more hatred that Guts for what happened.[...]
[emphasis added]

I think if there's one thing the past episode has made pretty clear, it's that there will be no "return to normal" - and I think that's in large part what SK's warning is about. Guts wants to get back the Casca he knew in the Golden age, but SK warns him that that's not how people work. Even without deep, psychological trauma, you cannot unlive your experiences, any more than you can un-ring a bell. To quote  the late great Sir Terry Pratchett, "anything that happens stays happened". This, to me, is the biggest reason to discredit theories about Casca "going back", be it to Griffith or Guts, or to being the commander of the Hawks. Her character is going to move forward, not back. It's much more exciting that way, too. After all this time, she deserves the chance to grow, rather than to regress.

(incidentally I don't mean to be overly nitpicky about your wording, I just drew attention to it to help make a point :) )

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 11:03:40 AM »
I think there is a strong case for Griffith kidnapping Casca in the future. However I doubt Casca would ever willingly choose Griffith over Guts,  he ruined her life, drove her insane and left her for dead, there's not  much to gain from hanging out with your rapists.

Offline Walter

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 04:15:57 PM »
To quote  the late great Sir Terry Pratchett, "anything that happens stays happened". This, to me, is the biggest reason to discredit theories about Casca "going back", be it to Griffith or Guts, or to being the commander of the Hawks. Her character is going to move forward, not back. It's much more exciting that way, too. After all this time, she deserves the chance to grow, rather than to regress.

I don't think anyone expects Casca will be 1:1 who she was back in the Falcons. That's just nonsense —  not worth engaging with. However, this is not going to be an entirely new character, either. I do think her qualities from that time will eventually emerge. Just as the Guts we know now is an evolution of who he was in the Falcons, this IS still Casca, and we do know that character, and she will certainly have her share of nuances and personality changes as a result of the Eclipse.

I think there is a strong case for Griffith kidnapping Casca in the future.

I'm curious what you think makes that a strong case. I can't say I've ever considered the idea, but it doesn't seem to me any more or less likely than other scenarios, and it sounds like a cliché setup for the final confrontation (not to mention disempowering Casca from an active role). That is to say, it doesn't sound like Miura.
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Offline Griffith

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Offline Fancypantaloons

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2018, 01:49:41 AM »
She isn't like Rickert, who was not present for the Eclipse and found something new to protect in Erica to help him grow past the loss of the Falcons.

And he slapped that bastard  :rickert:

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2018, 09:08:19 PM »
Quote from: Walter link=topic=15449.msg250908#msg250908

I'm curious what you think makes that a strong case. I can't say I've ever considered the idea, but it doesn't seem to me any more or less likely than other scenarios, and it sounds like a cliché setup for the final confrontation (not to mention disempowering Casca from an active role). That is to say, it doesn't sound like Miura.

I agree, it sounds cliche for a series like Berserk and it's not what I or I hope Miura would choose. I think it's likely because Griffith eliminates the possibility of Guts exploiting his weakness. Namely the demon baby taking control of his body. If he has Casca locked up in a room in Pandemonium, it may prevent the Moonlight boy from visitng Guts and company.

If assuming Griffith can't harm Casca directly, his only option to protect his secret is to capture her, it may also be that he is the only demonic being powerful enough to enter Elfhelm, but now I'm getting ahead of myself.

It also gives Guts an incentive to leave the safety of Elfhelm and go after Griffith. Now he is entirely morally justified in pursuing him.




Offline Walter

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2018, 01:55:37 AM »
I agree, it sounds cliche for a series like Berserk and it's not what I or I hope Miura would choose.

Then why are you here arguing the merits of this ill-advised scenario?

Quote
I think it's likely because Griffith eliminates the possibility of Guts exploiting his weakness.

He doesn't seem too concerned about that at the moment.

Quote
If assuming Griffith can't harm Casca directly, his only option to protect his secret is to capture her

That seems rather limiting, given that we're talking about a being with near-godlike powers.

Quote
It also gives Guts an incentive to leave the safety of Elfhelm and go after Griffith. Now he is entirely morally justified in pursuing him.

Sure but there are so many other reasons Miura can cook up to suffice that without resorting to a cliche "save the princess" plot. While I think it might be interesting for Casca to in some way come face-to-face with Griffith and/or the child (or for her to see one of them turn into the other) and see that scene play out, a kidnapping scenario where Casca is kept like a bird in a cage for Guts to rescue sounds extraordinarily cheesy and off-brand to me.
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Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2018, 12:23:13 PM »
Sure but there are so many other reasons Miura can cook up to suffice that without resorting to a cliche "save the princess" plot. While I think it might be interesting for Casca to in some way come face-to-face with Griffith and/or the child (or for her to see one of them turn into the other) and see that scene play out, a kidnapping scenario where Casca is kept like a bird in a cage for Guts to rescue sounds extraordinarily cheesy and off-brand to me.

Not to mentionned that we already had two kind of scenarios like that in the story : Princess Charlotte being rescued from Ganishka and Casca "kidnapped" by Mozgus crew to burn her (so it's not exactly the same but still is close to).

And then there was the trolls too.

Like you mention Walter, I'd like it more if Casca was to see her son transform (or whatever how it works) into Griffith or something like than her being kidnapped by Griffith.

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2018, 02:21:03 PM »
It's one of the current Unanswered Questions, exactly what is going on with the Boy and/slash Femto.  It's a complete cipher at this point because we haven't been shown any hint of Femto being concerned or distressed over the kid's solo forays.  We haven't even been shown whether he knows, though I can only assume he does.  All we've got so far is him appearing to suss out that he's got some of the kid's feelings (sort of literally inside him/not actually his as such) at the Hill of Swords.  And we know Zodd is interested in keeping tabs on the situation. 

If Casca could be useful as some kind of bargaining chip for Femto to use against the Boy, he already would have nabbed her/kept the option of easily nabbing her (intervening before they left on The Boat).  So Femto either doesn't think having control over Casca is useful to him, or, if she would be useful to him, he hasn't realised it yet.  OR he's just so confident in being able to get her if needed, he hasn't made any moves yet.  (OR he's being really prescient and wants the main crew to accomplish some Tasks before he intervenes.)

I wonder if it's more like, Femto has figured that the Boy cares about Casca and Guts, but figures that trying to get one or both under his thumb would rock the boat rather than reinforce his position. 

I think we've been shown clearly that Femto himself couldn't care less about either of them - on par with how he considers Rickert, they'd be welcome as friends or ignored as enemies proportional to how much of a threat they represented.  Femto isn't really capable anymore of being invested in whether people like him or hate him, beyond how it affects his plans.  So his treatment of Casca and Guts will depend completely on how the Boy would react and what exactly the Boy's status means to him.

One of the interesting questions, to me, is whether Femto can accurately predict the Boy's reactions - does he have an explicit understanding of the Boy, or could he make mistakes in trying to control him?  Does he even want to, or is the Boy the last/only bit of excitement in this new life where he's practically an all powerful god? 

I mean, now that he's got his Incarnation and his Empire and stuff, unless/until some unexpected and powerful opposition shows up, he's turned off Survival Mode and is playing in Build Mode, the challenge is essentially gone - will he get bored with just being able to waltz through all the content?  Is bored a thing he can get anymore?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2018, 02:33:14 PM by Lithrael »

Offline Tekkeman

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2018, 08:12:53 AM »
I was just wonderring about what Skullnight  once said to Guts, about what wanted may not be what Casca wants. So what do you guy's think. Will she return to Griffith's side once her memory is restored? Will the fact that Griffith's body is her son's sway her mind? Discuss!

Hey yeah, I remember thinking something similar as well that maybe what Skull knight was getting at was that Casca might not want to kill Griffith or that she might still have some attachment in helping Griffith achieve his dream. A possible motivation for her could be that she does not want everyone’s death during the eclipse to be meaningless so helping Griffith is her misguided way of giving their deaths meaning or something?
I vaguely recall a scene where guts is remember seeing Griffith for the first time after the eclipse and I think he says something like "I forgot it had to kill him" or “I lost the urge to kill" and Rickert during his rant when he slaps Griffith says "I couldn’t get angry, I couldn’t shoulder that burden" so I don't think hating Griffith is something that come easily to them but I could be misremembering that.
I know it's not the most popular opinion and from what I’ve read, a lot of people feel like it would ruin the character of Casca, but I hope something like that turns out to be the case I think it would make for some heartbreaking story telling between her and Guts. and I think it would be kind boring if she just flat out hates Griffith.

Offline Vixen Comics

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2018, 05:03:20 PM »
Good God tekkman that would be the shittiest thing ever if casca still wanted to help Griffith achieve his selfish dream and wanted to validate the Hawks deaths by helping him out. What do you think that the brutal savage way he murdered the Hawks will have no bearing on Casca? That she thought so little of them as people she would try to salvage their miserable death by the very man that betrayed by trying to help said man with his dreams. If you honestly think this than you are grossly misjudging casca as a character. Casca cared for the Hawks very deeply, she may not have consciously thought of them this way but she cared for them like surrogate family. I would honestly be very shocked if casca was not vengeful toward     Griffith for what he did to them for his own benefit after all they did to stand by him. And also...Griffith fucking raped her? Casca needs to hate Griffith for everything he has done to her. It certainly wouldn't be boring if she did.
/center]

Offline Tekkeman

Re: Will Casca return to Griffith?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2018, 10:34:28 AM »
Well, im sorry you feel that way Vixen :( i guess we will just have to disagree. i can't tell if you genuinely want me to answer those questions like why would Casca want to help someone who has murdered her friends/raped her and i feel like if i try you are going to be rude but i'd love hear what your ideal scenario is for when Casca and Griffith meet up or what you think should happen between her and Guts.