Berserk > Speculation Nation

Casca & The Idea of Evil

(1/5) > >>

Lord Leith:
So with Episode 354 out, I'm sure plenty of you have noticed the similarity between Casca's heart covered in thorns and The Idea of Evil from the lost chapter, what connection (if any) do you suppose the two have? I recall Miura saying that the reason said chapter was redacted is because it revealed too much too soon, I would say the average assumption is that it revealed too much about Griffith and causality but what if there's actually a relation to Casca?

I doubt the connection was initially planned by Miura at the time of the lost chapter's release but it could certainly be possible that Miura is retroactively adding another layer to The Idea of Evil's scheme and that this added layer concerns Casca and/or her child with Guts. It seems really ominous to me, almost as if The Idea of Evil will have a creeping influence on her but a part of me does figure it could simply be a case of reused/similar designs much like the thorns around Skull Knight's sword or those early illustrations of a cracked skull with a Beherit inside and a rose.

A heart covered in thorns isn't that uncommon of a design so maybe Im overthinking it? It could after all simply be a symbol of her trauma but something tells me Miura wouldn't let the passing similarity in design be just a coincidence.

Walter:
Hey man, welcome to the forum!

You've got quite a speculative title here. I don't think there's going to be any connection between these two things. Miura has used valve/heart like imagery in the past (The most notable being the sea god and the artificial beherit chamber; extra points for Rochine's apostle form), and it's only signified that he finds it to be a striking visual. The only added layer this time is the inclusion of the double helix as the method for the heart to absorb the scene of the Eclipse. And it is indeed a cool, evocative visual, but I don't see anything here that suggests an actual connection to the Idea of Evil.

Furthermore, I think it's a mistake to limit our perception of the Idea of Evil to the heart. For one, that depiction was striken from the canon. Another, the Idea of Evil describes that region as only a part of its being (its "core"). So if Miura wanted to allude to a higher being at work here, he'd have to go the extra mile of re-establishing that kind of imagery again, which he hasn't done.


--- Quote from: Lord Leith on February 21, 2018, 11:59:34 PM ---So with Episode 354 out, I'm sure plenty of you have noticed the similarity between Casca's heart covered in thorns and The Idea of Evil from the lost chapter
--- End quote ---

The individual releases are actually called episodes. Chapters are larger sections of the story (Chapter of Lost Children), and arcs are the largest (Conviction Arc, Millennium Falcon Arc, etc.). The full list for the series can be viewed here: http://www.skullknight.net/manga


--- Quote ---I recall Miura saying that the reason said chapter was redacted is because it revealed too much too soon, I would say the average assumption is that it revealed too much about Griffith and causality but what if there's actually a relation to Casca?
--- End quote ---

That would be part of the interview that he granted our community back in 2009. You can check that out here: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=9513.msg166308#msg166308

And it doesn't relate to spoilers, but scoping the Berserk universe. What he says is: "I wanted Berserk's world to be revealed just that far, not any more than that. The appearance of god in the manga conclusively determines its range. I thought that might limit the freedom of the story development."


--- Quote ---but a part of me does figure it could simply be a case of reused/similar designs much like the thorns around Skull Knight's sword or those early illustrations of a cracked skull with a Beherit inside and a rose.
--- End quote ---

Yep, he's definitely used thorns in the past (remember the Serpent of Thorns weapon Farnese has used?). But this time it actually had me immediately thinking of this: but I don't have a theory for what the connection is at all. For Casca, this episode makes it pretty easy for us to unravel the symbology: The thorns represent a defense that Casca erected around that painful memory, and it's a crucial enough part of her experience that it represents the heart of her entire being. Whereas SK is a complete mystery, so it's hard to posit any kind of connection.

Lord Leith:
Hey Walter, completely unrelated but before I reply to the actual substance of your reply I just want to say good work of you, Aazealh, Griffith and the others on the podcast, when I first signed up here you had just started it and since then the quality has only improved, yall are my go to Berserk content besides the manga, 90s anime and music.   :ubik:

You're right to bring up the Sea God, in all honesty my memory of latter Berserk chapters is a lil faulty due to a break I took over the slow releases, just started rereading and I'm making an effort to pick up on the subtleties, as of now though Im probably gonna make some mistakes. On that note, Im actually aware that the immediate releases are episodes, I've just always heard of the episode in question referred to as "the lost chapter" so I assumed thats what it was commonly known as, it is inconsistent so I should've guessed that its a mistake; when I say my memory of later chapters are faulty Im specifically referring to post Millennium Falcon arc around the time the ship got involved.

I had no idea though that the visual design of The Idea of Evil was no longer canon, so the concept itself is canon but nothing visually of the episode is? Sorry if its a redundant question, I'm just genuinely confused now as to what is and isn't canon regarding the lost episode. Ultimately you're probably right, Im just overthinking it. Still, I wonder if Miura knows how evocative this design of Casca's heart is to most fans considering the similarities between it and whats commonly interpreted as The Idea of Evil, even if there is no relation I feel like the lost episode is notable enough that he'd surely remember it and know the speculative reaction he'd get out of it.

I realize that speculation goes quite far over what is ultimately a minor detail in the scope of things so it is most likely just overthinking, at the very least there's still something unsettling about it.

Walter:

--- Quote from: Lord Leith on February 22, 2018, 03:06:56 AM ---I had no idea though that the visual design of The Idea of Evil was no longer canon, so the concept itself is canon but nothing visually of the episode is? Sorry if its a redundant question, I'm just genuinely confused now as to what is and isn't canon regarding the lost episode.
--- End quote ---

The part of the IoE that we can see in Episode 82 indeed appears heart-like, but it is shrouded in darkness. It certainly has organic valves, but I can tell you that before Ep 83 became widely distributed (around 2001), no one was calling it a giant heart. It didn't even have a name (other than God of the Abyss). Episode 83 shows us that being in full view, and it dispels any doubt about what it is shaped like :idea: a form that's ingrained in our brains, even though that's the depiction that isn't canon. So we shouldn't be limiting our perception of the IoE to that very distinct heart like shape any more.


--- Quote ---even if there is no relation I feel like the lost episode is notable enough that he'd surely remember it and know the speculative reaction he'd get out of it.
--- End quote ---

That doesn't really sound like a technique Miura is known for pulling. And again, it wouldn't be a reference that would make any sense at all for Berserk's less avid readers, and I'm sure that Miura is cognizant of that. Finally, what would it signify in this scene? I don't know what the connection would establish here, and I think it would make things quite convoluted to explain if this already quite complicated scenario is further layered by direct intervention by the Idea of Evil.

Lord Leith:
So in canon, the design of the Idea of Evil is more or less ambiguous (Ep 82) and the lost episode's depiction should be viewed with a grain of salt since its not canon, what is espoused by The God of the Abyss is still more or less canon despite the non canon design though right? I figured that while the episode was removed for revealing too much, what was revealed still held standing in universe. I'll keep in mind that The Idea of Evil can ultimately look like anything or nothing at all, sorta Lovecraftian in the sense that its beyond human understanding, not just a god resembling a heart.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version