Author Topic: Episode 356  (Read 17551 times)

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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2018, 01:14:36 AM »
As for how astral beings are created, we don't know. I've speculated a bit about it in this thread on the previous page, if you're interested, but the short version is we don't know. The only place where we've seen astral creatures being spawned so far is the Qliphoth, and that was under very special circumstances.

Indeed we don't, but I don't anticipate a complicated explanation about their origins. Given what we know, it could very well be that such creatures have just as much a stake in this world as humans do, and always have. It's just that for 1,000 years (or more) they were shunted into another dimension that humans couldn't access. The world tree has brought everyone together again, as "nature" intended. And now after a millennia of preparation, the God Hand have established a means by which to have humanity dominate the planet (killing anything nonhuman). And as for what happens when these creatures die, perhaps they die, and that's it. But at that point, I'm layering on doubt with doubt, since the afterlife is yet another vaguely defined part of the Berserk world.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2018, 05:52:53 AM »
Indeed we don't, but I don't anticipate a complicated explanation about their origins. Given what we know, it could very well be that such creatures have just as much a stake in this world as humans do, and always have. It's just that for 1,000 years (or more) they were shunted into another dimension that humans couldn't access. The world tree has brought everyone together again, as "nature" intended.

Sure. Maybe we'll learn some more about their origins, maybe not. What's sure is that their existence and their current presence in the same world as humans don't need any explanation.

Anyway, for all the wild speculation in the thread, I feel like we haven't really talked about what that thing in the bushes might be. There's quite a large variety of beings to choose from, so what could it be? And is it allied with the Jötunn, is it coercing them, or is it just lying in wait for some reason?

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2018, 07:45:49 AM »
we haven't really talked about what that thing in the bushes might be. There's quite a large variety of beings to choose from, so what could it be?



 :ubik:

Probably something smaller and more specific to the giants, but this was my heart's first desire when you mentioned something ominous hiding in the bushes... Other than maybe Skull Knight. :ganishka: :SK: "Next time, Femto! NEEEEXT TIIIIME!!"

It would be interesting if the Dragons in Berserk were as intelligent and powerful as in other sources or if they're more like beasts or too small in numbers to matter. Otherwise, they could serve as serious opposition to Griffith and perhaps some are even aligned, or at least civil, with Elves. Imagine Guts riding a dragon into battle! :guts:

Fun to think about, and another way to interpret this segment: the opposition to Griffith isn't just Guts and some inhabitants of a far away island, and seemingly the only way to counter his overwhelmingly powerful forces would be with equally powerful opposition. At least I hope so because I prefer all out fantastical warfare to exploiting an Achilles' heel, and why not both? :carcus:
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 07:57:02 AM by Griffith »

Offline saaken

Re: Episode 356
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2018, 09:13:47 AM »

Probably something smaller and more specific to the giants, but this was my heart's first desire when you mentioned something ominous hiding in the bushes... Other than maybe Skull Knight. :ganishka: :SK: "Next time, Femto! NEEEEXT TIIIIME!!"

It would be interesting if the Dragons in Berserk were as intelligent and powerful as in other sources or if they're more like beasts or too small in numbers to matter. Otherwise, they could serve as serious opposition to Griffith and perhaps some are even aligned, or at least civil, with Elves. Imagine Guts riding a dragon into battle! :guts:

Fun to think about, and another way to interpret this segment: the opposition to Griffith isn't just Guts and some inhabitants of a far away island, and seemingly the only way to counter his overwhelmingly powerful forces would be with equally powerful opposition. At least I hope so because I prefer all out fantastical warfare to exploiting an Achilles' heel, and why not both? :carcus:

Achilles's heel could be the demon's child spirit still residing in griffith maybe?

dragons are fascinating creatures, it can be interesting to see how they can be exploited in berserk universe.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2018, 11:00:40 AM »
Probably something smaller and more specific to the giants, but this was my heart's first desire when you mentioned something ominous hiding in the bushes...

Haha, that would be cool, especially if Grunbeld decides to go head to head with it! :zodd: But given that the giants' top dog is wearing an armor made out of dragon bones, I don't know...

Fun to think about, and another way to interpret this segment: the opposition to Griffith isn't just Guts and some inhabitants of a far away island, and seemingly the only way to counter his overwhelmingly powerful forces would be with equally powerful opposition. At least I hope so because I prefer all out fantastical warfare to exploiting an Achilles' heel, and why not both? :carcus:

Why not both indeed. I don't think we can do without the Achilles' heel to be honest (and one that Guts alone will be able to exploit), but I also don't believe Miura would deprive us of a last, enormous battle by the time the series ends.

Achilles's heel could be the demon's child spirit still residing in griffith maybe?

Yes, that's the idea.

Offline Faded

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2018, 04:38:28 PM »
I mean its been quite awhile since we have had a Skull Knight sighting. And the presence he emits can be quite ominous at the best of times.

Maybe SK's waiting for Griffith to run ahead alone and strike at the leadership like he always does in these battles, before intervening and trying to get a piece of him while out of Femto form and tied up in another battle?

I wonder what Mule and Sonia's reaction would be to SK and Griffith squaring off haha.  :carcus: Sonia might be able to pick up on some of SK's thoughts by being in his presence and maybe get a better idea about who her glorious leader really is... :femto:




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Offline Faded

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2018, 05:38:46 PM »
I doubt it. He usually only interferes during the Temporal Junction Points. And if he were to interfere again at this point in the story, he would pretty much have to fail again by necessity. Which would be a bit redundant at this point, given it wasn’t that long ago that he failed so miserably against Femto before. I think he’s going back to the drawing board for the time being until he can come up with a better plan of action and interfere at the next Temporal Junction Point.

Yeah I highly doubt Skull Knight will dash out of the bushes and strike down Griffith right there, hahaha. But what if the tussle gets serious enough that Griffith has to transform into Femto form in front of all his human subordinates? What if Skull Knight was all like "Curse you Femto, the damned Wings of Darkness!!"  And Sonia & company were all like wait a minute...who?!

And like I said, when was the last time we even saw SK? He's been at the drawing board for awhile and maybe his plan is to create a bit of disillusionment in Griffiths troops, specifically Sonia because of her special powers.

I'm totally off on a tangent here but hopefully I'm making some sort of sense haha.



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Offline Faded

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2018, 05:59:28 PM »
Seems like a strange way for Femto to be revealed to his army. I think the odds are pretty slim to none honestly. I think this next sequence of episodes will be more about reinforcing Falconia’s belief in Griffith than undermining it. At least on the macro-level. I expect we will definitely be given more glimpses of Femto’s true nature relatively soon, and I also think this would be a good time to begin planting seeds of doubt in the minds of some of his more prominent followers.

Long story short, it just doesn’t feel like the right time for Falconia to learn the truth about Griffith. If they ever do at all (which they probably will). And what if they learned the truth about Griffith yet still chose to follow him? I think that could be an interesting avenue to explore.

There is a lot to unpack in your post but don't you kind of contradict yourself here?  :???:
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Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2018, 11:08:29 PM »
Astral creatures are created by the mass subconsciousness of humanity, it's explained in 24-26. I assume, from what we've seen of the ogres and trolls, and told directly by Slan, that astral beings are formed of dead spirits, it's not a stretch considering spiritual beings such as apostles and the God Hand are literaly formed from the vortex. We even see the spirits of hell forming Femto's body in the IOE episode. Perhaps there is a domain similar to the abyss and nexus where light sided magical creatures are formed of positive spirits.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2018, 11:45:14 PM »
Astral creatures are created by the mass subconsciousness of humanity, it's explained in 24-26.


I don't think the manga has explicitly answered the question of astral creatures' origins. The basic argument over the years has been whether human dreams and imaginations are (were?) the authors of these creatures, or merely a window to the world they inhabit. I'm in the latter camp, and if you'll bear with me I can explain why.

All this talk boils down to basically three scenes, and I'll review each. In Vol 24, over dinner at Flora's, there is quite a bit of talk about how humans can perceive astral creatures, but nothing about their origins. Schierke talks a lot about how our perception of them is thanks to a tether in our collective subconscious minds to their existence (the kind of tether that can't simply be undone by an individual's "disbelief."). Over the years, people have recognized that such creatures existed, and legends were told that have reinforced their existence in our common subconsciousness. In vol 25 when they were approaching Qliphoth, Schierke wasn't saying that dreams and imagination are the creation engine for those creatures, instead dreams are a window for us to perceive them (this is literally how it's shown -- a sleeping child peering through a window and seeing nightmare creatures). It's possible this is because the dreaming mind can override the corporeal limitations. They're "inhabitants of human dreams" because that's where they can be perceived as having form, but that doesn't mean dreams created them. Finally, in vol 34 when Fantasia hits, we get a little bit of text about how these creatures who heretofore "only existed in people's imaginations," are now walking around. Lots of talk about perception, but none about creation.

I find a number of problems with the proposition that the astral world is merely the receptacle of the human imagination. Ged has already said: "We're going back to the Chaos of the ancient times where this world was mixed with the astral world..." So what we have now is the natural state of the world, not a new dynamic that has been littered by human dreams run amok. But also, I don't think painting it all with one brush is going to work. The astral world as we know it so far is a dense stew swimming with a wide variety of beings, not all of which jive with the concept that human whims created them. There are specters for example, which are very clearly not created by the human mind. And of course, elves are tied to the elements, just like the individual elementals, down to the 4 Kings which govern the elements.

Meanwhile, the God Hand and their ilk are completely related to humans, and that's portrayed negatively. So I don't anticipate a human-centric creation story on the horizon. It seems more like a human-centric worldview is what created the problem, and during this interim period the God Hand have tipped the balance of power in favor of humans artificially, in a world that would otherwise have creatures on even footing.

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it's not a stretch considering spiritual beings such as apostles and the God Hand are literaly formed from the vortex

Apostles are not "spiritual beings." They are humans whose souls have been tainted by the evil power in the Vortex of souls.

Quote
Perhaps there is a domain similar to the abyss and nexus where light sided magical creatures are formed of positive spirits.

Astral creatures are fundamentally different from the apostles and the God Hand, and the nexus isn't a real thing, just a convenient term we came up with.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 02:39:07 AM by Walter »

Offline Squiddot

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #110 on: April 29, 2018, 12:20:52 PM »
Anyway, for all the wild speculation in the thread, I feel like we haven't really talked about what that thing in the bushes might be. There's quite a large variety of beings to choose from, so what could it be? And is it allied with the Jötunn, is it coercing them, or is it just lying in wait for some reason?

I personally, had been holding off because I was nervous about diving too deep into speculation based on one tentative translation. With such little info to work with currently, every word used to describe the mystery-thing counts. Would an 'ominous od' imply something fundamentally evil like an apostle? Because Sonia has definitely encountered enough of them to recognise that when she sees it. I'd have to go back and check if trolls and ogres and such were also noted by Schierke as having an evil od. I tend to quickly fall into the assumption that "natural" fantasy creatures were kind of neutral, like wild animals. The way it's described as just being "in the bushes" is also fairly flat, human language that doesn't really evoke too much majesty or mystery.

My spur of the moment theory: Due to Eflhelm's time dilation, more than a few nights have passed since Rickert escaped and Rakshas has either been exiled for his actions, sent on long range reconnaissance or simply refused to show his face around out of shame. But now he has a reason to make his presence known to Griffith again.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2018, 03:50:35 PM »
I personally, had been holding off because I was nervous about diving too deep into speculation based on one tentative translation. With such little info to work with currently, every word used to describe the mystery-thing counts. Would an 'ominous od' imply something fundamentally evil like an apostle?

I haven't seen the original Japanese text, however the Korean translation doesn't mention Od. Sonia simply talks about a "large and ominous shadow", like I said several days ago.

Episode title is "Jötunn (1)", with the kanji meaning "giants" and the furigana indicating the name. It's a Norse mythology reference.

There's not much text in the episode, but Sonia chastizes Mule for not being careful enough, then she speaks to Griffith through telepathy. She tells him where the Giant King is (east of the battlefield), that there's a clear path to him, and more importantly to be careful because she senses a large and ominous shadow that is hidden in the bushes behind the soldiers.

Offline batistuta

Re: Episode 356
« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2018, 08:10:53 AM »
hey guys, 357 will be released in may? or a hiatus is going to happen?
thanks

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #113 on: April 30, 2018, 08:42:58 AM »
hey guys, 357 will be released in may? or a hiatus is going to happen?
thanks

In the absence of any specific indication, I am hopeful that episode 357 will be released in May.

Offline Scorpio

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #114 on: May 01, 2018, 04:32:07 AM »
Like many, I was a little bummed by the shift in focus- I really wanted to see the immediate aftermath of Casca's scream. When we eventually come back to Guts' I'm sure it'll be after that moment, but hopefully we'll still get to see it in a small flashback or similar. I'm not too worried though, there will be a lot of time for that sort of drama going forward.

This episode was a treat visually, with lots of creative ideas and designs. I'm not sure what fantastical thing is lying in wait behind the leader, but it would have to have quite the hefty magical punch to actually give Griffith pause. Is this an actual challenge for Griffith? To inform us more about the world? Character development for Mule? I'm excited to see where this goes and in the meantime we at least have an interesting spectacle.

I also wonder if we'll be seeing Rickert while we're on this side of the pond. I'm curious as to what he's up to as well as taking a peek at the Bakiraka homeland, though there's also a big part of me that wants a 'Rickert the Man' moment after a long gap (Infinite Space reference). We'll have to wait and see!

Offline Faded

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #115 on: May 01, 2018, 07:47:18 PM »


I also wonder if we'll be seeing Rickert while we're on this side of the pond. I'm curious as to what he's up to as well as taking a peek at the Bakiraka homeland, though there's also a big part of me that wants a 'Rickert the Man' moment after a long gap (Infinite Space reference). We'll have to wait and see!

I am also wondering about Rickert. I wonder how much time will have elapsed before we check in with him again? It would be so cool to see a fully adult Rickert, and what kind of amazing inventions he's come up with since we last checked in. I speculated on a bad ass steam-punk style mechanical suite that would allow him to 1 v 1 apostles but that's perhaps a little over the top... anyone else have any ideas what the boy genius has created next? Maybe infused magic into some of his gadgets with aid from Daiba? So many possibilities!

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Offline Archer1215

Re: Episode 356
« Reply #116 on: May 01, 2018, 08:45:48 PM »
I speculated on a bad ass steam-punk style mechanical suite that would allow him to 1 v 1 apostles but that's perhaps a little over the top...

Just a bit lol.

I actually don’t know if we’ll see Rickert until after the timeskip. I would like for Rickert to have his own journey with his own party of companions (Erika, Silat, Daiba, etc.) going forward, parallel to Griffith/Falconia and Guts/Casca. Either we see him immediately after or during this next sequence of episodes, or it will be after Guts and the party leave Skellig, when a timeskip has already taken place. I think it could work either way.

Maybe we switch back to Rickert just long enough to establish the setting of the Bakiraka village where he will have a safe place to live for a few years, or maybe we follow his journey through Fantasia to get to the villlage, with him serving as another set of eyes for the state of the world after the blast. But I could also see Rickert’s story being put on ice for a while until the events in Elfhelm are wrapped up.

Offline Khalamir

Re: Episode 356
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2018, 10:07:05 PM »
On the topic of Rickert, I think there's a good chance we'll jump to him for a couple of episodes after we're done with Griffith. Just to show Silat's reaction to Rickert's story, the Bakiraka village itself and how Rickert is getting along there. Then we'll go back to Elfhelm.

It would be so cool to see a fully adult Rickert, and what kind of amazing inventions he's come up with since we last checked in. I speculated on a bad ass steam-punk style mechanical suite that would allow him to 1 v 1 apostles but that's perhaps a little over the top... anyone else have any ideas what the boy genius has created next? Maybe infused magic into some of his gadgets with aid from Daiba? So many possibilities!


steam-powered stuff is going too far I think, but then again after the rocket launcher I don't really know what to expect out of him. I'm sure we'll get a bunch of more cool inventions from him. Guns are one possibility (although I think if guns were to ever be introduced, it would be by Falconia, and if anything Rickert would only improve on the design.)
I wonder what Erica will do, too. She's friendly with Daiba, so that opens the possibility for her to learn magic from him, but she also once said she wanted to become a Blacksmith herself. Maybe she'll learn from Daiba and try to apply some of what she learned to Smithing.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #118 on: May 02, 2018, 12:20:34 AM »
... anyone else have any ideas what the boy genius has created next? Maybe infused magic into some of his gadgets with aid from Daiba? So many possibilities!

:daiba: + :rickert: = A fission bomb using magical components  :magni:

Rickert has always seemed like a behind-the-scenes guy at heart, so I can continue seeing that role for him with the Bakiraka, outfitting them with unique weaponry, making them into a force even more deadly and unique. The fun will come in trying to convince them to use unconventional equipment, given that their martial arts seems quite entrenched in their culture.  There is such cool potential with the Bakiraka in the arrangement that Miura has created for them, they're definitely one of the highlights for me when I consider the future.

Either we see him immediately after or during this next sequence of episodes, or it will be after Guts and the party leave Skellig, when a timeskip has already taken place. I think it could work either way.

There are many possibilities. I don't think there's much to gain by trying to pigeonhole it. This recent POV switch made that abundantly clear.

On the topic of Rickert, I think there's a good chance we'll jump to him for a couple of episodes after we're done with Griffith. Just to show Silat's reaction to Rickert's story, the Bakiraka village itself and how Rickert is getting along there. Then we'll go back to Elfhelm.

Not sure I understand the logic. Just because there's plenty of story left to tell with Rickert and co. doesn't mean that now is the time for it. And just like we cut mid-sequence with Guts and Casca, Miura can always do that again in the future if he feels like it's the time to share Rickert's story.

Quote
I wonder what Erica will do, too. She's friendly with Daiba, so that opens the possibility for her to learn magic from him, but she also once said she wanted to become a Blacksmith herself. Maybe she'll learn from Daiba and try to apply some of what she learned to Smithing.

Daiba's certainly a knowledgeable guy, but his skills aren't limited to magic. Remember, he's the guy who spent his life making the "artificial beherit" for Ganishka. It will be interesting to see what he's able to do with that knowledge. I can't imagine that particular knowledge base will just be used for exposition purposes.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 01:22:09 AM by Walter »

Offline Faded

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #119 on: May 03, 2018, 03:12:34 PM »
:daiba: + :rickert: = A fission bomb using magical components  :magni:



Only one issue, they don't have radio technology for a remote detonation...

...Guts goes fully berserk, runs the bomb like a NFL wide receiver right into the heart of Falconia before spiking a touchdown and sacrificing himself 'Bruce Willis Armageddon' style, destroying the world tree while taking Griffith & all the bad guys with him thus saving humanity.


That would make for one heck of a light novel, anyways.  :troll:





 
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #120 on: May 03, 2018, 04:27:12 PM »
Only one issue, they don't have radio technology for a remote detonation...

True but that's probably not the only issue though  :ganishka:

Offline Faded

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #121 on: May 03, 2018, 05:35:46 PM »
Back on the topic of the actual episode (and apologies if someone has already asked this question) but is it possible that the giants have some sort of connection to Slan? I ask this because they seem to have an affinity for the trolls which were definitely the children of Slan. Ogres were also of her creation, perhaps she's also let loose these giants as well? Interesting that at least certain specific astral creatures are actual creations of the God Hand.

I know it would be ground breaking for us to discover that there is in-fighting between the God Hand members but then again we don't know their actual end game so we can't rule it out either. I mean I could see Griffith attempting to transcend the other members of the god hand and establish himself as the true lord of the universe. That would hypothetically involve him taking out the other God Hands astral minions IMO.

That's a lot to digest and I have strong doubts the story moves in that direction but it's interesting to think about at the very least. I'm just stumped as to what we're going to get out of this whole astral conquest by Griffith (other than another, inevitable confrontation with Guts). Like you guys said in the podcast eventually something has to happen because Griffith simply mowing down enemies is going to get pretty dull after awhile.



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"Man wields the sword so that he may die smiling in some far-off time beyond perception."

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #122 on: May 03, 2018, 05:58:03 PM »
trolls which were definitely the children of Slan. Ogres were also of her creation,

No, I think you might have missed something about that scene. Those were simply creatures of the Qliphoth, which is of course where dark creatures of similar od gravitate. Slan appeared there because she sensed Guts, and she could manifest those creatures because of her power as a member of the God Hand. That doesn't mean that Slan is the creator of all trolls and ogres or that she has a particular affinity with the Qliphoth other than of course her own evil power.


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I know it would be ground breaking for us to discover that there is in-fighting between the God Hand members but then again we don't know their actual end game so we can't rule it out either.

Because the God Hand are the executors of the Idea of Evil, it nearly assures that such things won't happen. Even if it might be interesting to see.

Offline Faded

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #123 on: May 03, 2018, 11:06:59 PM »
No, I think you might have missed something about that scene. Those were simply creatures of the Qliphoth, which is of course where dark creatures of similar od gravitate. Slan appeared there because she sensed Guts, and she could manifest those creatures because of her power as a member of the God Hand. That doesn't mean that Slan is the creator of all trolls and ogres or that she has a particular affinity with the Qliphoth other than of course her own evil power.


Hold on let me grab my volume. I'm not trying to correct you here but this is the reasoning behind my thinking:

From Darkhorse volume 26:

Slan: "I've missed you, boy. Its been so long. No...I've sensed you at times. In the cave...at the tower...throughout countless nights. I felt all your passions. And as the path unfolded, I knew you'd come to my domain, Qliphoth." /cut to Schierke

So, not only does she refer to Qliphoth as her domain (Darkhorse translation alert), she says she knew Guts would somehow end up there.

Skull knight then shows up, and some more interesting dialogue between Slan and SK:

SK: "Whore princess of the Uterine sea. So you were the only one summoned?

Slan: "Summoned, you say? I came here on my own. I wished to see this boy. You do realize, don't you? This is what the emergence of the 5th means. The worlds are already starting to overlap. I have no idea about the others, they likely melted into their preferred sephira(?), and are floating, formless."


The last bit here by Slan really strikes me as the God hand all taking up residence in their own "environments". Conrad was already shown hanging out with plague-ridden rats as another example. If anything Slan does at least hint that the God hand members are taking the first steps towards transitioning out of the astral plane and into the real world.

Here's a few more interesting quotes from Qliphoth:

Slan says this after Skull Knight decides enough talking and pulls out his sword: "This place may as well be my womb, rage and fury, bastard fetuses of darkness!!"

*Suddenly a billion Orgres and Trolls show up seemingly at Slans command*

Slan, right before Guts gives her the cannon point blank: "This is the uterus of darkness, the vicinity of the netherworld where abominable spirits take ethereal form. It can spew forth any number of these children, like worms."

This one is really interesting to me, as it kind of gives you a hint towards how certain nasty astral creatures are formed. Areas "within the vicinity of the netherworld" Also, to me this signals that again Qliphoth is related to Slan because it is the uterus of darkness and she is the princess of the uterine sea...sticking with the reproductive theme at least and she does refer to them as "children" in a quote above.

Now, Darkhorse may have butchered the translations and I have the totally wrong idea in that case I concede. But I am genuinely curious on your thoughts about these quotes.

*edit*

Sorry, this is turning into a massive post but I feel like I need to get this all out before it slips my mind.

Upon further reflection and reading Qliphoth episodes again I think you're correct that she hasn't created all of the trolls and ogres and maybe they aren't actually her minions under direct control. But she definitely has a connection to what Qliphoth represents, if that makes sense.

Qliphoth represents rage and fear etc. Those are the kinds of things Slan likes, and according to her own words the other God Hand members melted into their "preferred" sephira, meaning she definitely came to Qliphoth because its her kinda place (and because she wants Guts bad).

I know during one of your guys podcasts (really old, perhaps the first or second one even) you and Aaz speculated on what the God Hand will do when they all reach the real world and someone suggested they all have their own little kingdoms or what ever. Qliphoth perhaps gives us a peek into what Slans "kingdom" might look like as well as the kinds of residents within? So awkwardly transitioning that to present day we could hypothetically be seeing Griffith encroaching on the edges of what might be another bigger, badder Qliphoth.

I guess you can say I'm incredibly stoked for the next episode, whether its Griffith related or not. I need to know what happens next so I can put this kind of bonkers speculation to rest!



« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 11:46:25 PM by Faded »
"Man takes up the sword in order to shield the small wound in his heart sustained during a far-off time beyond remembrance."

"Man wields the sword so that he may die smiling in some far-off time beyond perception."

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 356
« Reply #124 on: May 03, 2018, 11:51:32 PM »
From Darkhorse volume 26:

Slan: "I've missed you, boy. Its been so long. No...I've sensed you at times. In the cave...at the tower...throughout countless nights. I felt all your passions. And as the path unfolded, I knew you'd come to my domain, Qliphoth." /cut to Schierke

That is a straight-up bad translation. This came up recently, and two of our Japanese speaking users went back and forth on it before both concluded that Dark Horse is yet again full of shit.

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=1770.msg249569#msg249569

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she says she knew Guts would somehow end up there.

Well yeah, because she can sense him. If anything all you've done is show that the Qliphoth isn't unique in that lineup (she refers to other times and places she sensed him).

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Here's a few more interesting quotes from Qliphoth:

Yeah man, I know all about this scene. We were here talking about this episode when it came out in 2003  :ganishka:

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Slan says this after Skull Knight decides enough talking and pulls out his sword: "This place may as well be my womb, rage and fury, bastard fetuses of darkness!!"

*Suddenly a billion Orgres and Trolls show up seemingly at Slans command*

Her ability to summon creatures here, in this particular place, which she describes as having a concentration of dark creatures, does not mean that she is the owner of this place. It means that she, as a powerful being who can wield evil power, can exploit its nature and amp its production at will. By appearing in (and ultimately exiting) the Qliphoth, she also sealed its fate to collapse, as SK tells us later. Not really the behavior of a proper landlord.

Besides, we've already seen what "Slan's domain" looks like twice. We see what looks like a glimpse of it when Joachim hallucinates in vol 18 (writhing bodies begin to meld), and we see it again in Vol 34, in the 2 page spread with Slan alongside pages where the other God Hand members are in domains with their affinity. Hers is a place with writhing naked bodies engaged in sex. So, look around the Qliphoth again, and squint your eyes at the DH translation. What is it about the Qliphoth in particular that makes you scream "definitely Slan's place" ?

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Also, to me this signals that again Qliphoth is related to Slan because it is the uterus of darkness and she is the princess of the uterine sea...sticking with the reproductive theme at least and she does refer to them as "children" in a quote above.

That's clever but you should know the full meaning of what SK is saying. The phrase is 胎海の娼姫 / Harawada no Shouki. It's a dense play on words and it's of course in Japanese. I'm not a native speaker myself, but I'll try and break down the meanings in it:

Intestines

The translation "Whore Princess of the Uterine Sea" overlooks the play on words Miura's doing. "Harawada" is a word Miura coined himself by combining harawata (intestines/organs) with wada (ancient word for the sea). So here, SK is making fun of the form she took -- gross intestines, despite her high stature on the bad guy food chain.

Princess/Courtesan

SK pairs the words "Whore" and "Princess" 娼姫, likely referring to her lusty appetite/personality while also mocking her stature as a God Hand, in the same way that Slan pokes fun at SK by calling him "your highness/king."

Amniotic Sea

This could be referring to a number of things. It could be SK poking fun at Slan's actual vagina being as big as the ocean (my preference), or the origin of the God Hand beginning at the Abyss (which by its nature has an ocean connotation), or Slan's ability to manifest creatures of darkness from her womb (which she refers to later on).

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Qliphoth represents rage and fear etc.

The Qliphoth is, as Schierke tells us, the astral world's domain of darkness. That's it. You're reading too much into what Slan says as she's torturing Guts, saying that his dark feelings are fitting for a dark place.

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Qliphoth represents rage and fear etc. Those are the kinds of things Slan likes

Actually, lust seems to be her forté, whether sex or otherwise — the kind of lust that embodies your whole being, the kind that drives you mad. It's likely what attracts her to Guts.

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Qliphoth perhaps gives us a peek into what Slans "kingdom" might look like as well as the kinds of residents within? So awkwardly transitioning that to present day we could hypothetically be seeing Griffith encroaching on the edges of what might be another bigger, badder Qliphoth.

Again, Qliphoth really doesn't resemble Slan at all, and we've seen what is probably her domain, so I simply don't agree. But to indulge this idea, it'd be amusing if the presence that Sonia sensed turned out to be the outskirts of another God Hand member's domain, and Griffith just tells them to steer clear of it without explanation.  :ubik: But really, I think people are reading too much into that one panel. It could be absolutely anything.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 12:51:52 AM by Walter »