Godo's mine, Skullknight and Rickert.

After the eclipse Skullknight brought Rickert, Guts and Caska to Godo's mine.
That mine was inhabided by the elves and protected Guts and Caska from their damnation. But why Skullknight brought them there and not to Flora?
Could it only be because of Godo being without apprentice while Flora allready had one or is there something more about it?
And is this why he saved Rickert (to master the smithing skills)?
Also, do you believe there is a chance the Berserker armour could have been made at that place? Elves and dwarves are near by nature and maybe word of mouth mixed it a bit. Also the beast was at it's full potential inside there, remember?
And what ultimatelly destroyed the cave now, could have dispelled it's inhabitants 1000 years ago (Karma speaking). Thus Skullknight could have been knowing about the place for 1000 years, been there 1000 years ago to fight with the Godhand avatar of that time.

Well all this is theory but I believe this mystery is kinda interesting so try to deploy your thoughts.

Maybe SK didn't bring them to Flora because he thought Gutts and Flora being in the same place would attract evil to both of them much quicker than if they were alone. Or because he may have not thought that Gutts was ready to meet Flora (perhaps he did not want to risk letting Gutts see the Berserker armor).

I don't understand why you think the Berserker armor was made at Godo's place though. SK used a Berserker armor before, so Godo couldn't have possibly been the one who made that armor (unless you are implying something else). My guess is that either the Hanafubuku King had a part in its creation or Flora did alone. The Beast may have been at its full potential because Gutts wasn't having to focus on fighting/staying alive at the moment; the only person that was there was Caska, and the Beast told him to rape her.

Hmmm, SK fighting an ancient battle with an apostle army 1000 years ago (but if that happened, then the story would have to reveal a pre-griffith griffith and that would be too weird). Sounds possible, but maybe it was somewhere else.

When it comes to the reasons for why the elves/dwarves moved out of Godo's mine, it could be that there was some gruesome battle there which caused the surviving elves to live in Elfheim, they could have all been sacrificed in an eclipse (wild guess), or maybe they just migrated to a spot farther from evil, since Godo's mine is closer to Midland (isn't it?) and somehow they predicted that Griffith/Ganishka would bring evil to Midland.

nir085 said:

I don't understand why you think the Berserker armor was made at Godo's place though. SK used a Berserker armor before, so Godo couldn't have possibly been the one who made that armor (unless you are implying something else

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The armour was made by dwarves. I said that the elves that stayed at that mine could eventually be those dwarves or at least co habitants with them. Dwarves and elves are similar by nature (spirits) so if you had one there you could also have the other. Furthermore we are talking about a mine, a place necessary for the making of metalic armours. We don't know of another place like this so there is a chance it could be the place of the berserker armour been made. Plus Skullknight knew about that place and about it's properties while also being the one that wore the berserker armour 1000 years ago.

Good point. (I can't believe I forgot about the dwarves either)

But in response to SK bringing Rickert to Godo's mine to master the smithing skills, I don't think that was why he saved Rickert. I'm sure he just saved Rickert...because Rickert was in danger. That's all. Just like SK saved Luca. SK didn't even know about Godo anyways, as I recall. Besides, Rickert becoming a blacksmith, no matter how good of a blacksmith he could become, would be of no use to SK at all.

Now that you mention the mine as a necessity for making armor, I can see why they could have chose to build the armor there, but they could have also gathered the raw materials from there and finished the work at Flora's place or Elfheim (unless an Idea of Good produced the first Berserker armor :) ).

nir085 said:

But in response to SK bringing Rickert to Godo's mine to master the smithing skills, I don't think that was why he saved Rickert. I'm sure he just saved Rickert...because Rickert was in danger. That's all. Just like SK saved Luca.

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Yes, but he only saved him, not the others. And if you remember after he saved Luca and let her go he made a strange expression like if her destiny(and the fact that he saved her) held an important part in the Karma of events.

nir085 said:

SK didn't even know about Godo anyways, as I recall. Besides, Rickert becoming a blacksmith, no matter how good of a blacksmith he could become, would be of no use to SK at all.

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But maybe to Guts'?

nir085 said:

Now that you mention the mine as a necessity for making armor, I can see why they could have chose to build the armor there, but they could have also gathered the raw materials from there and finished the work at Flora's place or Elfheim (unless an Idea of Good produced the first Berserker armor :) ).

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Yeah, but dwarves weren't at Flora's ;)
Elves (and maybe dwarves) were at the mine. We know that they lived there for a fact.

xechnao said:

Yes, but he only saved him, not the others

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There were no one alive... only him

Smith said:

There were no one alive... only him

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Was it just because of the cavalry being late?

xechnao said:

Was it just because of the cavalry being late?

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SK wasn't late, he was there for a long time..

The others have been killed while SK was fighting with Zodd, SK saved Guts(and Caska) after cutting Zodd's arm (and calling a draw), then when they escaped, Rickert was there, Rickert was there to help Guts and Caska to survive after SK brought them to Godo's mine, he was usefull for that. Why would SK leave Rickert there ? He's a friend of Guts and Caska !

I want Rickert to be important to the plot because i liked that character, but we have to see what Miura give us, there's so much to speculate about him and not enough clues to point to his importance...

I believe the answer lies directly with what he said. Skull knight said that he brought them to the mine because it was the closest spot where they could be safe. He took rickert there because caska and gutts had just been royally messed up in the eclipse and he wanted to ensure that he wasn't just ditching them there to die. remember that he also said that it was pure coincidence that godo was there, which adds credibility to the fact that he needed rickert to take care of them. besides the obvious "rickert was in danger from either zodd or another apostle/demon"

kkempter said:

I believe the answer lies directly with what he said. Skull knight said that he brought them to the mine because it was the closest spot where they could be safe. He took rickert there because caska and gutts had just been royally messed up in the eclipse and he wanted to ensure that he wasn't just ditching them there to die. remember that he also said that it was pure coincidence that godo was there, which adds credibility to the fact that he needed rickert to take care of them. besides the obvious "rickert was in danger from either zodd or another apostle/demon"

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So he saved Rickert before saving Guts and Caksa for him to help them.
This is a direct explanation but it brings another interesting question:
That Skullknight was planning to save Guts and Caska beforehand.
Do you believe this is true?

I think so. Because out of all the Hawks, Gutts was the only one who was warned about the Eclipse. I don't think he was planning on saving Caska though, he just saved her because she was the only other Hawk who was still alive.

nir085 said:

I think so. Because out of all the Hawks, Gutts was the only one who was warned about the Eclipse. I don't think he was planning on saving Caska though, he just saved her because she was the only other Hawk who was still alive.

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Good point that about the warning. About Caska I ain't sure though he was 100% happy to save her (I am talking about the baby here) but on the other hand she was necessary to save Guts in the present as we are seeing now from the beast.

Anyway, the 64 million dollar question is why Skullknight wanted and planned to save Guts.

Griffith pretty much has had his body from letting them go away alive. And we know this also happened because of Caska (the child wouldn't be lying stunned at Albion if not for Caska being there most propably).

What plans does Skullknight have for Guts? He could have killed Caska first place to ruin causality plans but instead he saved her with Guts. Guts and Caska were that important. Maybe the way to fight GH is not ruining it's plans but showing humans the alternative one, the idea of peace, love and collaboration and the idea to forgive and not hate.
I know I am sounding like a damn hippy but do you believe this might be the case?

I think its probably because godo's mine was the closest thing he found. Usless this post is, talking about stuff that doesnt really matter....

DemonX said:

I think its probably because godo's mine was the closest thing he found. Usless this post is, talking about stuff that doesnt really matter....

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What does matter is a thing of preference.
It does matter to me to find out about skullknight in the story and understand it.


P.S. Can I ask you a question? Could you stop flaming, pleaseee ? :)

xechnao said:

P.S. Can I ask you a question? Could you stop flaming, pleaseee ? :)

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No, I love to flame .

xechnao said:

He could have killed Caska first place to ruin causality plans but instead he saved her with Guts.

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Not only did he save her, SK also wanted Caska to be cure... otherwise he wouldnt direct Guts to Elfhelm and seek for the King


But then if SK decide to end Caska life in vol13, Griffith wouldnt be even reborn at all... Why then he save her then? Is he planning to do something after Griffith was reborn? Or he just didnt forsee? ::)

xechnao said:

Anyway, the 64 million dollar question is why Skullknight wanted and planned to save Guts.

Griffith pretty much has had his body from letting them go away alive. And we know this also happened because of Caska (the child wouldn't be lying stunned at Albion if not for Caska being there most propably).

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Why did Skully save Guts? Look at the powerhouse he's become now, after ~4 years. Skully probably saw the potential for Guts early on. Other than that, there is the ever-present pontential that Skully's "divinations" alone were the cause for protecting and "training" Guts, so to speak.

Speaking of which... In answer to your second paragraph, the divinations that Skully [probably] relies on can't be too specific. So no, as far as Skully likely knew, Griffith didn't "pretty much have his new body" as you put it. Our Knight in Skull armor is pretty trig, but he's not thattrig.

Maybe the way to fight GH is not ruining it's plans but showing humans the alternative one, the idea of peace, love and collaboration and the idea to forgive and not hate.
I know I am sounding like a damn hippy but do you believe this might be the case?

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So smashing through the sun and attempting to cave in the head of someone is the way of love? Does love peace and happiness also coorelate to calling a female the "mother of all prostitutes" and vehemently slicing the heads of poor, defenseless Ogres open? 8) This is war, not a peace conference.

Walter said:

Why did Skully save Guts? Look at the powerhouse he's become now, after ~4 years. Skully probably saw the potential for Guts early on. Other than that, there is the ever-present pontential that Skully's "divinations" alone were the cause for protecting and "training" Guts, so to speak.

Speaking of which... In answer to your second paragraph, the divinations that Skully [probably] relies on can't be too specific. So no, as far as Skully likely knew, Griffith didn't "pretty much have his new body" as you put it. Our Knight in Skull armor is pretty trig, but he's not thattrig.

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Yes, this is the most plausible theory but I am not sure I agree.
Listen, Skullknight has given some strange advice all the time to Guts that if you examimine it all together it may seem that he is that trig and he is trying to create something out of Guts over here.
And he knew that the baby was Guts' son remember?
I believe he allready knew about the baby as he allready knew that Griffith was the fifth GH when he visited Guts in the mountains. He didn't see the egg like Zoddo and yet he knew.

Walter said:

So smashing through the sun and attempting to cave in the head of someone is the way of love? Does love peace and happiness also coorelate to calling a female the "mother of all prostitutes" and vehemently slicing the heads of poor, defenseless Ogres open? 8) This is war, not a peace conference.

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Haha. Lol!
Yes, Skullknight is not Ghandi but what I was trying to say is that maybe he has a plan that in a certain place, a certain moment Guts will have been mastering his hate as a necessary condition for something big to happen.
Timing is important in any plan.
Guts will have to arrive there (most propably in some periods using his hate as it could be his only resource) but on the crucial moment he will have to peace down.
Take for example Griffith and GH's plan for him in various stages that causality brought. He was powerfull to become weak.

As such I also said that maybe Skullknight could not mess up with GH's plan because causality wouldn't let him thus instead of opposing GH's plan it helped it. Remember his words in chapter 237 about the "tales" to take a hint:

Skully - It is like in a tale where the people would challenge those who bind them

Skully - to challenge and to touch the Hawk

Skully - You too must be one who resides outside of the tale

Scherkei - And that's why they attacked my mentor...!?


I have post about this as a response in ideas' thread. See you also there.

xechnao said:

And he knew that the baby was Guts' son remember?
I believe he allready knew about the baby as he allready knew that Griffith was the fifth GH when he visited Guts in the mountains. He didn't see the egg like Zoddo and yet he knew.

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Sure, he realized that the child was of Guts/Casca+Femto and that's pretty impressive. But that does not spell out REBORN GOD HAND. Give the poor Skeleton some slack.

Guts will have been mastering his hate as a necessary condition for something big to happen.
Timing is important in any plan.
Guts will have to arrive there (most propably in some periods using his hate as it could be his only resource) but on the crucial moment he will have to peace down.

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I suppose it's out of the question for Guts to "master his hate" for his own ends, with no universal implications? Somehow, I think you believe that the machinations of the God Hand will fall thanks to Guts' conquering of the Beast.

I doubt this. And why shouldn't I? The conceptual 'conquering of the Beast' has more important plot and character implications without being wrapped up in some sort of saving-the-world-from-hate nonsense.

Walter said:

Sure, he realized that the child was of Guts/Casca+Femto and that's pretty impressive. But that does not spell out REBORN GOD HAND. Give the poor Skeleton some slack.I suppose it's out of the question for Guts to "master his hate" for his own ends, with no universal implications? Somehow, I think you believe that the machinations of the God Hand will fall thanks to Guts' conquering of the Beast.

I doubt this. And why shouldn't I? The conceptual 'conquering of the Beast' has more important plot and character implications without being wrapped up in some sort of saving-the-world-from-hate nonsense.

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Well, I didn't say that what I said was out of doubt. It is just a theory.
Anyway, I will tell two things.
1) Miura has said that there will be some sort of happy end.
2) It has been said throughout the manga that Guts salvation is based on Caska and mastering his hate. This is not nonsense. It's the manga. Guts is a damned one, a sacrifice. If it is said that his only hope is finding peace with Caska and mastering the beast with such an emphasis it is only but hinted that it will also have to do with the whole plot of the story, GH sacrification-damnation included.
So according to this what you are saying Walter here:
"I suppose it's out of the question for Guts to "master his hate" for his own ends, with no universal implications?"
will have to conect with what you said next:
" Somehow, I think you believe that the machinations of the God Hand will fall thanks to Guts' conquering of the Beast. "

And ,of course, yes, this is what I believe. While I am not saying it is the only force necessary, I am saying it must be a link in the chain of conditions that will do the trick.

So smashing through the sun and attempting to cave in the head of someone is the way of love? Does love peace and happiness also coorelate to calling a female the "mother of all prostitutes" and vehemently slicing the heads of poor, defenseless Ogres open? 8) This is war, not a peace conference.

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Well, yeah, comparatively, I'd say it does correlate. Duh, Sk is fighting for peace (yeah, that's like fucking for virginity, but that's the Berserk world for you...)

Frankly, I've had some of the very same thoughts myself-- that in the end, since Griffith is too powerful to beat, the only real way to beat him will be for people like Caska to help him rediscover his own humanity-- for Griffith to sort of beat himself and the God Hand. Now THAT seems somehow plausible.... that Griffith would be powerful enough, along with SK and Guts, to accomplish that. Anyways, just a thought.

But just so Xech knows-- yes, there are others out there who enjoy reading/viewing redemptive stories. And what other real purpose will Caska have, once she returns to herself? It seems rather obvious to me that Miura is setting up a situation where she is going to try and bring Griffith back to himself, so to speak-- what with their mother/child relationship. Why set that up, if not to use it as the one honest route in Griffith?

And when they met, frankly, I honestly thought that Griffith wasn't as devoid of old feelings as he thought he was. He says he is... but the way he acted, protecting her from the boulders.... that did not agree.

I'm not saying Caska will necessarily be successful at it, if it were to happen.... but just that it seems like a Miura-esque twist-- pitting Caska's purpose against Guts' purpose.

So yeah, Walter, I think there is some room in the Berserk narrative for the importance of "peace, love, and happiness" (to really hit the ol' hippy groove there). :)

Well, I am not sure Griffith will make it. IMHO there will be some "collateral" loss in the conclusion and I believe Griffith is too beautiful to remain. ;D

I hope Griffith won't make it. He and Guts need to have an epic battle. Wether or not Guts survives doesn't matter to me. As long as the ending brings closure to the whole story.

dwarfkicker said:

I hope Griffith won't make it. He and Guts need to have an epic battle. Wether or not Guts survives doesn't matter to me. As long as the ending brings closure to the whole story.

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How unique.

dwarfkicker said:

I hope Griffith won't make it. He and Guts need to have an epic battle. Wether or not Guts survives doesn't matter to me. As long as the ending brings closure to the whole story.

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What do you mean by "Griffith won't make it"? That is very vague to me.... Not become more human again? Not ...what?