Author Topic: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?  (Read 32680 times)

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Offline tonberrykid02

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Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« on: February 24, 2005, 08:50:22 AM »
i say no. another person says yes.

i say that she was about to be, and then they stopped to witness Femto's birth.

the other person says she was raped the entire time between when we saw her being stripped, to when guts saw her being held up by the apostles.

personally, i feel that miura would never leave something that big as an implication. maybe he wouldnt show it, but we'd all know for certain one way or another.

thoughts?

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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2005, 09:36:56 AM »
Since we don't see what happens at that time, anything is possible, and it's left to the reader's interpretation.

I would say no however, because the way the scene is built makes you fear for the apostles to tear her apart, and as the tension gets to the max, the apostles stop and Femto appears. It's perfect timing, and them having had fun before that would ruin it in my opinion.

There's also the fact that Femto, the fifth angel, taking his "turn" after a bunch of random scum would seem rather odd to me. And finally, if they had all ganged up on her, I'm not sure there would have been anything left but dispatched body parts.

Offline C

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2005, 07:45:33 PM »
What an interesting question, one I have never really thought of. At the same time, honestly I never had a reason to think of it. Following what Aazealh said, it just wouldn't make any sense to happen that way. Interesting thought though, the more people the more ideas you get, right?  ;D

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Offline Tell Me Why

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2005, 05:45:57 PM »
I don't think Casca was every truly raped until Femto got to her. Which kinda makes all the previous rape attempts build up to what Femto had in store for her.

Offline KuraiDragoon

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2005, 08:37:59 PM »
And finally, if they had all ganged up on her, I'm not sure there would have been anything left but dispatched body parts.
I agree. If she had been raped by a gigantic apostle penis, she'd be dead. Lucky for her Femto had a pretty much human physique, so it wasn't enough to rip her in half.
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Offline Khorne

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2005, 06:45:07 PM »
Femto appeared a second before an apostle was going to "penetrate" her.
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Offline Tristram

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2005, 03:13:05 AM »
Femto appeared a second before an apostle was going to "penetrate" her.

yeah I remember that, it was like a parking cone with a giant bee-stinger.

in the anime when I saw that I was like "noooooooooooooooooooooooooo"  because I remember seeing this horrible sack of crap anime, Urotsukidouji, where this guy put his weiner in this girl then she swelled up like a soda can and exploded, then his penis started absorbing people souls and was as big as a train (I am not kidding).  Me and my friend Deannie like to joke about this.

I may have to start up a thread in the miscelanous section, for speculation on why japanese artists are so obsessed with huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge tenticle penises (penii?)

So yeah, I dont think she'd been touched just yet, then Batman came and saved the day, sort of.  Griffith is a jerk but at least he didn't tell idea "I wanna be a giant penis."

Griffith raped her, none of the other demons got to it yet, they were probably savoring the moment or some such crap.

Offline Sparnage

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2005, 04:30:56 AM »
Hmm, I guess I'm the only one that thinks she was violated prior to Femto.

For starters getting gang raped by a bunch of monsters is something not even Miura would be likely to show, so it would make sense for them to jump to another scene for that alone.

Secondly, even when she was penetrated by that claw/trunk thingy right before Femto came into the picture, she was bleeding from several deep scratch marks all over her naked body including a very noticeable amount of blood around her vagina area, that definitely implies very much one particular outcome. Also she was passed out when Guts finds her, severe trauma from a bad experience is definitely a plausible outcome as I couldn't think of why else she would have.

Third is they make out a reasonable of time had past since the story left her and jumped to Guts going wild before they meet up, and they left her with a bunch of Apostles ripping off her armour and having their hands in numerous private areas... now I don't know about you guys but that implies something to me. What else would happen between the gap from when Apostles are all acting horny towards Casca, then after who knows how much time had gone by before she is passed out with the physical appearance of a women who was violently raped?

Offline Tristram

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2005, 04:44:00 AM »
Hmm, I guess I'm the only one that thinks she was violated prior to Femto.

For starters getting gang raped by a bunch of monsters is something not even Miura would be likely to show, so it would make sense for them to jump to another scene for that alone.

Secondly, even when she was penetrated by that claw/trunk thingy right before Femto came into the picture, she was bleeding from several deep scratch marks all over her naked body including a very noticeable amount of blood around her vagina area, that definitely implies very much one particular outcome. Also she was passed out when Guts finds her, severe trauma from a bad experience is definitely a plausible outcome as I couldn't think of why else she would have.

Third is they make out a reasonable of time had past since the story left her and jumped to Guts going wild before they meet up, and they left her with a bunch of Apostles ripping off her armour and having their hands in numerous private areas... now I don't know about you guys but that implies something to me. What else would happen between the gap from when Apostles are all acting horny towards Casca, then after who knows how much time had gone by before she is passed out with the physical appearance of a women who was violently raped?


But seriously... look at the *SIZE* of those things.  She wouldn't just be bleeding "down there", she'd have a ruptured abdomen.

Offline Sparnage

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2005, 04:53:38 AM »
But seriously... look at the *SIZE* of those things.  She wouldn't just be bleeding "down there", she'd have a ruptured abdomen.

Yeah, so what? When Guts was raped when he was a kid it didn't seem like he was bleeding, and was able to move around alot more able than what would be expected after a child was violated by someone THAT big. On that note even supporting characters that aren't Guts can take a substantial beating and be ok soon afterwards.
Here's a thought, Why don't you go and give a deep cut to a friend of yours with a sword to the arm? I mean in a Manga it's only a scratch in a non lethal area to anyone else, so he should be fine!

Regardless of that point, what else would cause the bleeding?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2005, 04:55:13 AM by Sparnage »

Offline Miyu

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2005, 08:15:35 PM »
Regardless of that point, what else would cause the bleeding?

Personally, I hate to see Casca get raped at all, but it's not my story so I don't get any say in the situation.  But I thought that the bleeding was due to claw marks from the various apostles ripping her clothes, armor, any form of fabric or material blocking them from her naked skin.  It would make sense that she has claw marks there since that's one of the first places that they want to get to.  Though I don't think she was actually penetrated by any of the apostles until Femto, the horrific experience of having these monsters kill off all of your friends and comrades then turn around to start ripping your clothes off is a pretty traumatic experience enough that they did their damage to her without having to physically rape her.  Femto probably did the ultimate and final deed whereas the apostles just had the precursory event.  Either way, the damage was done and Casca's worse for wear then before. 
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Offline Smith

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2005, 08:40:10 AM »
I do agree Tristram that Casca was *nearly* violated... Femto came just in time to save her from getting rape...




Otherwise there is a possibility that the demon child is not femto one  :P
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Hokuto_Master

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2005, 01:11:30 PM »
Same interpretation for me. Casca was about to be raped by the apostles when Femto came and took her. The apostles had to give her up to their general.

Those monsters are full of teeth and claws... so of course she is bleeding. She has many scratches everywhere, including between her two legs in her pubic area.

Then again Griffith wanted to be the one destroying Guts psychologically. I don"t think he would have done this after the Apostles turns either.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 09:19:34 AM by Hokuto_Master »

Offline Void Swordsman

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2005, 08:57:20 PM »
I think that Casca was raped in the manga, not the anime.

I think so because of everything Sparnage said, the bleeding, and the gap of time. And if Miura showed that... well... that would be pretty disturbing. It was implied.

But, I don't think she was raped in the anime for two reasons: First, she was not bleeding in the vagina area. Secondly, in the manga, getting raped by the apostles would better justify why she is so crazy. And they would not need that in the anime because they don't show post-eclipse Casca.

Offline BiQ--

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2005, 10:12:47 PM »

Third is they make out a reasonable of time had past since the story left her and jumped to Guts going wild before they meet up, and they left her with a bunch of Apostles ripping off her armour and having their hands in numerous private areas... now I don't know about you guys but that implies something to me. What else would happen between the gap from when Apostles are all acting horny towards Casca, then after who knows how much time had gone by before she is passed out with the physical appearance of a women who was violently raped?


Reading volumes 12 and 13 again, I don't think that the story pacing necessarily dictates there to be all that much time between the moment of Apostles ripping off Casca's armour and Guts seeing her unconsciously hanging from tentacles... quite the contrary, in fact.

In volume 12, story focus leaves Guts when he has just been told by Ubik that 'this is what he [Griffith] wants' and charges head-on against the apostles with a broken stump of a sword/knife as his only weapon. Volume 12 ends, 13 starts. Now story focus shifts to Casca&others, who are in "ground level" as opposed to Guts, who's on the palm of that giant hand right now. The moment of time is about the same at the end of Guts focus and start of Casca focus, let's call that moment A. Now, focus is on Casca who is defended from apostles' attacks for quite a while by Pippin & Judeau, although not forever, as we know.  :'( The Casca focus ends at the moment Apostles start tearing her clothes&armour off. Let's call this moment in story time moment B. Now story focus goes back to Guts and story time goes back to moment A. We know this since Guts is still without any other weapon than that broken knife, and we just now see him break that tusk from an apostle to use it as a improvised weapon. Now we get to see fighting Guts for a while, him dropping to ground level, seeing Pippin&Gaston mock-ups played by random apostles... and then we see Casca hanging naked and bleeding on those tentacles, and Guts going all-out berserk.

I personally believe that this moment is somewhat close to moment B we got to earlier, but I do agree that she certainly looks like the apostles did something more than just tease her at this point... and it's not really outside the scope of logic to assume even apostles being able to hold it down a little bit to "make sure that rare goods can be passed around a bit"... argh. Considering what we're talking about here, I can hardly believe I just wrote something like that... we need a 'puke' emoticon on these boards. :-X

However, what Aazealh said about Member of God Hand not taking turn after some random scum and the obvious build-up to the moment of Femto's birth holds water too... so I'm still hanging on this issue.

Another thing though, how much can we trust her flashback to be accurate? In volume 23, when those random travelling thugs tried to rape her, the flashback leaves very little space for any speculation imho. Since this is speculation nation, we can as well go ahead and throw another theory about how her psyche distorts things to save her/itself from the fact that Griffith (she did identify him as Griffith, after all) raped her...

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2005, 09:25:22 AM »
Absolutely. I completely agree with your timeline theory. It's not because many things happen between Casca is caught and Guts seeing her, that it does correspond to the actual timeline. I too think we are told the events at the same time from two points of view. Casca/Pippin/Judeau live the events from A to B. Then back to A and we see what Guts lived from A to B.

As for Casca's suffering, the most probable situation for me would be:
The apostles catch her, play with her touching her everywhere, tearing her clothes apart, scratching her with their claws including the pubic region which explains the blood everywhere, and when she is brought on top of the spike-monster and about to be penetrated, you can see the spike-monster look: he stops right away. His attention is caught by the birth of Femto.
Femto comes down and he gives her up to him.

Of course it's impossible to say exactly what happened, but I do believe they just played with her for a little while, and then the climax where she was supposed to be penetrated pretty much like you put a decapitated head on a spike. This whole ceremony was interrupted just in time by Femto.

Add the fact that she was with child. And if the apostles' horrible "things" had actually penetrated her, her baby would have been turned into a pulp. :-X

The apostles raped her psychologically, and Femto raped her physically. Which is worse? :-\
« Last Edit: April 06, 2005, 09:34:33 AM by Hokuto_Master »

Offline All_4_Yume

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2005, 09:22:49 PM »
Hmm, I guess I'm the only one that thinks she was violated prior to Femto.

For starters getting gang raped by a bunch of monsters is something not even Miura would be likely to show, so it would make sense for them to jump to another scene for that alone.

  I doubt that.  Miura has drawn hella fucked up things in the past way more shocking than the average wanna-be Urotsukidoji flick.  Dude drew half a chapter of Casca getting raped in various positions, drew a pretty damn graphic picture of Guts rape, and various other ish too hot for television.  Hell the third page of the series starts off with the main character's dick in a transformed apostle!  If Miura didn't draw something it's probably too crazy to even think about (tortured Griffith's face nonwithstanding).

   Another reason I doubt think Casca was raped was for dramatic effect.  Saving Casca for Femto was like the icing on a fucked up cake.  Besides, Femto's not gonna get sloppy seconds.  He's a Godhand damn it! ;D
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Offline Tristram

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2005, 04:19:18 PM »
  I doubt that.  Miura has drawn hella fucked up things in the past way more shocking than the average wanna-be Urotsukidoji flick.  Dude drew half a chapter of Casca getting raped in various positions, drew a pretty damn graphic picture of Guts rape, and various other ish too hot for television.  Hell the third page of the series starts off with the main character's dick in a transformed apostle!  If Miura didn't draw something it's probably too crazy to even think about (tortured Griffith's face nonwithstanding).

   Another reason I doubt think Casca was raped was for dramatic effect.  Saving Casca for Femto was like the icing on a fucked up cake.  Besides, Femto's not gonna get sloppy seconds.  He's a Godhand damn it! ;D
1)  Miura ism't just about shock value of drawing hella fucked up things (so I think, at least).
2) Uroutsukidoji has people fighting eachother with their penises.  Wtf.
3)Wait, main character as in Guts?  I haven't been able to ahold of the firsdt 3 volumes so I missed out on that.  He's not ass-raping the snack baron is he?  That'd be great but... eh.
4)The reason the didn't show Griffith's face is because he looked like Micheal Jackson.  Thats scarier then all the demonic tentacle penises in the universe.  Miura just... couldn't... do... it.

Offline Sparnage

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2005, 07:53:57 PM »
Reading volumes 12 and 13 again, I don't think that the story pacing necessarily dictates there to be all that much time between the moment of Apostles ripping off Casca's armour and Guts seeing her unconsciously hanging from tentacles... quite the contrary, in fact.

In volume 12, story focus leaves Guts when he has just been told by Ubik that 'this is what he [Griffith] wants' and charges head-on against the apostles with a broken stump of a sword/knife as his only weapon. Volume 12 ends, 13 starts. Now story focus shifts to Casca&others, who are in "ground level" as opposed to Guts, who's on the palm of that giant hand right now. The moment of time is about the same at the end of Guts focus and start of Casca focus, let's call that moment A. Now, focus is on Casca who is defended from apostles' attacks for quite a while by Pippin & Judeau, although not forever, as we know.  :'( The Casca focus ends at the moment Apostles start tearing her clothes&armour off. Let's call this moment in story time moment B. Now story focus goes back to Guts and story time goes back to moment A. We know this since Guts is still without any other weapon than that broken knife, and we just now see him break that tusk from an apostle to use it as a improvised weapon. Now we get to see fighting Guts for a while, him dropping to ground level, seeing Pippin&Gaston mock-ups played by random apostles... and then we see Casca hanging naked and bleeding on those tentacles, and Guts going all-out berserk.

I personally believe that this moment is somewhat close to moment B we got to earlier, but I do agree that she certainly looks like the apostles did something more than just tease her at this point... and it's not really outside the scope of logic to assume even apostles being able to hold it down a little bit to "make sure that rare goods can be passed around a bit"... argh. Considering what we're talking about here, I can hardly believe I just wrote something like that... we need a 'puke' emoticon on these boards. :-X

However, what Aazealh said about Member of God Hand not taking turn after some random scum and the obvious build-up to the moment of Femto's birth holds water too... so I'm still hanging on this issue.

Another thing though, how much can we trust her flashback to be accurate? In volume 23, when those random travelling thugs tried to rape her, the flashback leaves very little space for any speculation imho. Since this is speculation nation, we can as well go ahead and throw another theory about how her psyche distorts things to save her/itself from the fact that Griffith (she did identify him as Griffith, after all) raped her...

Good observation, as you say from the point where Guts is charging at them with a broken sword not much changes when it finally gets back to him several chapters later, however it is made clear that it is pretty much going right back to the point where he was attacking them directly, with Casca a reasonable amount of time and evidence of some kind of sexual abuse happened, and it couldn't have been that brief because Casca doesn't seem like the sort to pass out easy, unless for a really good reason.
As said there is no way of telling for sure but your theory gives me something to think about.

  I doubt that.  Miura has drawn hella fucked up things in the past way more shocking than the average wanna-be Urotsukidoji flick.  Dude drew half a chapter of Casca getting raped in various positions, drew a pretty damn graphic picture of Guts rape, and various other ish too hot for television.  Hell the third page of the series starts off with the main character's dick in a transformed apostle!  If Miura didn't draw something it's probably too crazy to even think about (tortured Griffith's face nonwithstanding).

No, actually you prove my point. We don't see Guts raped Donavan, it cuts out in a very similar way to how it jumps to a different scene with Casca as her armour is being ripped apart..... Besides Miura hasn't put in rape scenes quite that bad.

Quote
   Another reason I doubt think Casca was raped was for dramatic effect.  Saving Casca for Femto was like the icing on a fucked up cake.  Besides, Femto's not gonna get sloppy seconds.  He's a Godhand damn it! ;D

Prehaps as a Godhand he is beyond conformed standards of sloppy seconds mattering in the slighest.

Offline Beneath

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2005, 03:42:58 AM »
Im pretty sure that Casca was raped by the monsters prior to her being raped by Femto. If you look at the manga, you can clearly see blood coming out of her crotch area. These monsters had been devouring all the others, but when they got to her they stopped. If i can remember right, I think even one said, "Do we eat her?"  Then, as it shows, they started taking her armor and clothing off. Im sure their intentions were to do things "sexually" to her. Otherwise, why not just eat her like all the others? Why even take her clothes off? 
  As we've seen throughout the Manga, these apostles seem to have a very strong sexual desire, so Im sure that it was the same in the Eclipse. 
  Obviously we dont know what the monsters did to her specifically. They all seemed to have some varying sizes of "tentacles" so Im sure they just penetrated her with those. Like was said earlier, they didnt use something that would kill her, but im sure it was sure as hell a horrible experience.  If they were just holding her up and passing her around, why would she be passed out? when guts saw her in the grip of one of the monsters, she was clearly passed out, so Im sure that they did more than just "hold" her.   
  Im also sure Griffith didnt care if the monsters raped her or not. Even tho he is a godhand, he had no concern for guts or Casca anymore. Im not sure exactly what he wanted to do by raping her, but it made no difference to him that she maybe had already been raped. Im sure he expected that both her and guts would be devoured after the raping, he just wanted guts to be alive to see him do it.
 
 Bleh, the whole topic is making me a little sick to my stomach, lol.
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Offline GodHand18

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2005, 09:48:32 PM »
The only problem with the Apostles Raping Casca Theory is that any one of Apostles could have been the Father of Casca's Demon Baby.  I think its clearly obvious that Miura wanted you to know (without a shadow of a doubt) that the demon child is clearly Griffith's baby.
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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2005, 09:51:42 PM »
The only problem with the Apostles Raping Casca Theory is that any one of Apostles could have been the Father of Casca's Demon Baby.  I think its clearly obvious that Miura wanted you to know (without a shadow of a doubt) that the demon child is clearly Griffith's baby.

No. It's Guts and Casca's child, but tainted by Femto.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline GodHand18

Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2005, 03:09:29 PM »
Quote
No. It's Guts and Casca's child, but tainted by Femto.


Wow, I had no idea the Child was actually Casca's and Guts' Baby.   :o
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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2005, 03:54:36 PM »


Wow, I had no idea the Child was actually Casca's and Guts' Baby.   :o
Volume 14, towards the beginning. Skully: "your woman was with child when the 5th demon lord took her." (paraphrase...)
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CommanderCasca

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Re: Was Casca raped in the Eclipse by the apostles?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2006, 03:47:31 AM »
I have to sadly agree that my dear Casca was indeed tortured and sodomized by those bastard monsters. "sodomy" referring to rape is often referring to the use of foreign objects in penetration, as opposed to genitals..... SO unfortunately Casca was raped in all possible ways, first by the Apostles and their "appendages" then by Femto and his so-called genitals....making this the most horrible experience possible for her. I swear , i know i am behind but i just got finished with the volume and i am still horribly disturbed that a majority of the book was such a horrid and graphic depiction of the undoing of a character i can so easily empathize with.  :judo:The part that really wont leave me is when Casca is begging Guts not to watch! She is thinking about Guts and how hurt HE is feeling.....so incredible to me.....I just wish that her rape wasnt so incredible brutal....but it was, and i am not looking forward to seeing Casca as a whole new , weak, and broken character because i will just be thinking of the whole Raping incident over and over again......but, i am hooked, what can i say?