Griffith / Femto: One in the same?

During the entire rape of Caska, Femto was completely expressionless...no anger, no pleasure, nothing. He didn't seem surprised to me when he saw Gatts hack his own arm, more like he was just observing a curiosity.
 

fletch

Treading trodden trails for a long, long time.
um... if femto had no emotions, no motivation other than to serve godhand, why would he rape caska in the first place? seems to me that he had some sort of "leftover" griffith stuff in there somewhere. i don't really know whether griffith reborn is still the same as femto, but i kinda doubt it. the whole fusion with gatts & caska's kid sorta changed things. i think it's probably still part femto, which means it's part original griffith as well, & part gatts & part caska (which would explain why he looks increasingly girly as time goes on). hell, he might even have a little bit of egg apostle in him for all i know (& if hentai rickert's "seed" worked the same as femto's "demon seed," would that mean that in the hentai series, griffith reborn is part rickert too? in that case, i suppose he could've made his own armor... but i digress). anyway, it's really, really, really hard for me to accept that griffith reborn is EXACTLY the same as any of the previous incarnations of griffith. anybody have a problem with that nice blanket statement?
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
anyway, it's really, really, really hard for me to accept that griffith reborn is EXACTLY the same as any of the previous incarnations of griffith. anybody have a problem with that nice blanket statement?
Nope, that’s probably the most intelligent open-minded thing said in this thread all day.

-Griffith
 

magoamoth

Please... my egg... don't do anything to it... pro
I can't approve that Griffith reborn has the same personnality as before.How could a god born in a physical world(or demon,or surnatural entity) have exactly the same feelings like a human?
And other way,how could a simple human mind bear the memories of killig all of his friends and rape his best help?
It's to hard for a human mind (except maybe gatts'mind,which is really something in my opinion: assume the past but answer to the actual troubles with an illimited animosity and agressivity)

Does the White Hawk remember his behaviour when he was Femto? I think Yes but it doen't mean that he 's guided by the memories of that.
When after the fight with Zeddo,Gatts sees Gritffith;Griffith says to him that his only will for now is to reach his dream and get his own land and castle...
Absolutely no emotion looks on his face(no condescendance,no hate,no will to be forgiven...).
I don't tink a human heart,even the srongest is able to hide such things,even Griffith is become a sort of god made with flesh and blood...

Femto was an avatar of past Grifith,sort of a vision of the"dark side" of his personnality,why doesn't Griffith reborn be the same?
Not the "good side" after Femto,I don't guess Miura is so Manichean but some aspects of Griffith's personnality which are unknown for us...
For now, the principal mind of this "new" character is to reach his goal at all price, absolutely doesn't care about number of victims.His goal is all,it is worse than obsession,it is more something like being narrow-minded.
The main difference between past Griffith and Griffith reborn is for me that past Griffith was able to take away his dream some moments just to enjoy present moment with his friends,but reborn Griffith is "programmed" ,and he's alone,no human's minds arround him...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
When after the fight with Zeddo,Gatts sees Gritffith;Griffith says to him that his only will for now is to reach his dream and get his own land and castle...
Absolutely no emotion looks on his face(no condescendance,no hate,no will to be forgiven...).
I don't tink a human heart,even the srongest is able to hide such things,even Griffith is become a sort of god made with flesh and blood...
Well, Griffith did have a little smile at the end of 182 when he mentioned getting his dream (it seemed like he was genuinely happy talking about it, like he used to be), but then he said/warned that nothing would stop him and he became very cold and threatening, even Guts looked afraid.

But, other than that small quibble I’m more or less in complete agreement with everything you're saying.

-Griffith
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
.
The main difference between past Griffith and Griffith reborn is for me that past Griffith was able to take away his dream some moments just to enjoy present moment with his friends,but reborn Griffith is "programmed" ,and he's alone,no human's minds arround him...

Yeah... but is this because he can not feel those emotions, or because he has nobody to share them with? I mean, look at his current followers... not exactly the types to show emotions to if you don't want to have your throat torn out. Will be interesting to see what happens with that Girl who might become his prophet...

And... Personally I think that Griffith is relearning to feel emotions again, just look at the ols "Griffith's Mental State" thread for more about that...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah... but is this because he can not feel those emotions, or because he has nobody to share them with?
I think it’s because he chooses not to share his emotions because it was those same emotions that betrayed his dream before. But, I can imagine Griffith thinking the Hawks fondly (it would interesting to see if he dreamt about them, or even has a nightmare), especially in comparison with his present company, like Guts, perhaps Griffith will learn to appreciate what he gave up for his dream. But he won’t let it stop him, he’ll suffer with it, but he won’t let it get in the way. Like I’ve said, getting his dream will be the easy part, the emotional journey is is what’s going to be rough…
I'm looking forward for Griffith meeting Charlotte again, myself...
Yeah, so they can start makin’ with the love! ;D Seriously though, I really look forward to it as well, probably the most powerful moment in the series we can be sure is going to happen, I can’t wait to see what he feels when he sees her again.

-Griffith
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I really look forward to it as well, probably the most powerful moment in the series we can be sure is going to happen, I can’t wait to see what he feels when he sees her again.

-Griffith
Guts....What did you get? I.... -THE END-
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Miura abruptly ends the series after realizing he’s already made more money than he ever dreamed. :)

“NOW I’ES GONG TO LIVE IT UP 'WILD STYLE' WITH ALL MY CASH MONNIES!! I MOVED TO HAWAII, WHARE ARE THE TWELVE YAER OLD GIRRILS AND SNOW AT??”

-Griffith

P.S. Snow, in Hawaii? You know what he’s talking about. ;)
 
um... if femto had no emotions, no motivation other than to serve godhand, why would he rape caska in the first place?

I don't think Griffith/Femto ever wanted to serve Idea, much less Godhand...or anyone, in the first place, so I don't know where you got that from.

But one theory was that Femto, as a Godhand, gained knowledge (foresight?) of causality, and raped Casca because it was part of the plan to be reborn. The fact that it hurt Guts was sort of a bonus for him I think, but a fact that was still beneath his dream
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I don’t think Femto had any dream, he’s a demon that only exists on an ethereal plane, what use would he have for a human’s physical dream, I think his only purpose was to serve Idea and God hand. I don’t think Femto had a plan, the deal with Griffith to be reborn was already in place.

-Griffith
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
I really look forward to it as well, probably the most powerful moment in the series we can be sure is going to happen, I can’t wait to see what he feels when he sees her again.

More than meeting a sane Casca again and having to face what he did to her? ;)
 

magoamoth

Please... my egg... don't do anything to it... pro
best next moment in my opinion?
when a new and safe-mind Casca will meet again Griffith and tell in front of him that for now she will fight her own battles!!!

She'll fight Charlotte to become the more attractive woman in the world (her secret dream :) )...

But listen Casca: "You are already the hottest babe!!!"
 
God Damn it I wrote this long-ass post and it got erased! :'( This time I’m writhing it in word.

O.K. here is my take on this issue

--Original Griffith: He would stop at nothing to obtain his dream. He was responsible for thousands of deaths along the way. Sure he felt like shit at times, but he’s human so that could be expected. Right now I’m reminded of the time that he was younger and was crying about the young boy (the one with the doll that wanted to be the knight) who died under his command. But ultimately he would do anything to get his dream.

--Eclipse Griffith (Griffith/Femto): Although Griffith and the new Femto had very different form of existence, they had the same ego and were therefore were essentially the same person. The main difference between the original Griffith and Femto is that Femto seemed to b devoid of some of the warmer fuzzier human emotions such as love, guilt, sadness, etc. As far as what is going through Fmto’s mind during the eclipse, we have no idea. We are really supposed to. If we were, I wouldn’t be as interested is the series and I wouldn’t be writing all of this shit……TWICE!! >:(

--Regular Femto: We don’t know much about this character. I don’t think that this is a very important part of the story. (at least not right now) But for the most part I would think that he is the same as all of the other God Hand.

--Reborn Griffith: The only real difference is that he is now responsible for a few hundred more deaths and the fucking up of Caska and Gatts. Did he care about them? Absolutely (he still may), but remember, in the Grand scheme of things he is responsible for thousand of deaths. Who’s to say that any of those people were unloved or unimportant? The reborn Griffith is human and therefore is capable of normal human emotion. However, I would expect him to be much more calloused that the teenage version of himself.

So in summery, the new Griffith is the same person as the old Griffith. Actually, I believe he has always been the same person. (even Femto) However Femto is just a different form of Griffith. Anyway, that’s how I see it.
 

fletch

Treading trodden trails for a long, long time.
um... but griffith doesn't need charlotte anymore, why would seeing her again effect him? i was rather under the impression that he was just using her to get his kindgdom... he might smile at her contempously, but i think that'll be about it. he doesn't NEED legitimacy anymore, he'll have an apostle army. of course, i guess that's more about whether his empire will be a positive one or a negative one... oh well.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Check out volume 10 during the escape from the Tower of Rebirth. Charlotte sacrifices herself to save Griffith. It has a very strange effect on him. It infers that she meant more to him than just a one-nighter. I think Charlotte means more to Griffith than even he, himself knows.

Plus, Charlottes 'advisor to the throne' title is up for grabs (according to volume 17) so Griffith would technically be the real man behind the scenes if he were to be accepted at that role (which im sure Charlotte would choose, once she finds out hes alive). Its the perfect way to sieze power. The apostle army could still be used to battle off the Kushan/Tuda forces when they arise to some sort of opposition.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
he doesn't NEED legitimacy anymore, he'll have an apostle army.
Yeah, but Griffith also doesn’t NEED an Apostle army really, Zodd could defeat any opposition alone, he’s been defeating entire armies for 300 years and I’d bet Griffith could do it alone as well. I don’t think it’s just for having a positive kingdom as you put it, I think that certainly is a part of it, but there’s more to it as well. He seems to be trying to get the throne in a fashion similar to how he was going to take it before, even if it is only a charade, he wants it the way he envisioned getting it, it’s an issue of control. I also think its another example of Griffith’s sentimentality and denial.
It has a very strange effect on him. It infers that she meant more to him than just a one-nighter.
Yes, he seemed astonished that she legitimately cared for him that much, sure, he had many admirer’s and followers, but Charlotte was different, she seemed to truly care about Griffith the man, not just the persona. While on the subject, when Charlotte took the hit for Griffith she did it at a time when he felt very betrayed by everybody, even if he didn’t have real feelings for before that he certainly felt something for her afterwards; whether it’s love or a sense of allegiance (compounded by the fact that he was only using her before) I couldn’t say, perhaps both. We’ll see how he really feels when he sees her.
Plus, Charlottes 'advisor to the throne' title is up for grabs (according to volume 17) so Griffith would technically be the real man behind the scenes
Good point, but I think Griffith wants his power to be official and absolute, I don’t think he’ll settle for simply running things behind the scenes, he wants HIS OWN kingdom.

-Griffith
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
I think that Griffith does not see building an army and taking a kingdom the old fashioned way as a charade. After all... a kingdom is composed as much of the hears of the people, as it is of land.

To truly gain his dream, he must win the heart of the people as well, to get them to fight with him, and believe in him in a similar manner as he did with the hawks before. So it must be done the hard way, or it would be a hollow and false dream.

I do not think that Griffith has changed that much, more jaded and cynic about his own human frailties of course, but I still think that his dream of the castle means more than just being on top, being a tyrant. So the people matters to him, he might be prepared to sacrifice them, but he was always ready to sacrifice himself as well.

Walther/Griff: Good take on the Griffith/Charlotte relationship. I hadn't thought of it that way, I always saw her as a pawn to be used. Didn't think that she might have become more to him after the escape... loyalty always did seem to interest Griffith.
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Aaaah...get ready for a new shocker....

GRIFFIS NEVER EXISTED AS A MAN!!! :eek: :eek:

...done beating your arms on the chest like gorrilaz?
Good, then listen to this...

We all know what a cool guy that leader of the Hawks was, eh? Never losing battles, always making the right decisions, ultra charismatic, good looking, favoured among buddies and all that. Kinda TOO good to be true, as Colcas puts it in the end. Well, it was too good to be true. The man Griffis was only born so that Phemt may incarnate in him.
Phemt was planned by Idea ages ago. God Hand have a tight schedule of messing up the world, and Phemt is their last player.
How come?
Well Idea manipulates the bloodlines right? And what did Slann say about "you were a dream called Griffis, that now has ended" - with the awakening of Phemt. Phemt slept in the shell of Griffis' soul during his ascension in the flesh world, and Griffis, injected by charisma and ambition idea placed in him, acted involuntarily towards the goals of God Hand. His yearning for the castle was necessary to keep him going in the flesh world, where the God Hand couldn't control him directly (like a zombie spawn or something). As he got the scarlet beherit only proves he was planned long ago.
Furthermore, since his very birth Phemt rapes caska in order to get her pregnant, so that he may later be reborn as the griffis, having already placed his image into the political world of midland. Now he has everything necessary to prepare the world for the further plans of Idea.
And yes, those knights that trot along him now are probably apostoles, contrary to my first opinion. In the game, when Zodd and Gatsu converse before the battle, you can get the idea that Griffis is raising an "army of monsters". Nice huh?
Definetly, griffis is a very evil thing now, the incarnation of Phemt, and all you romantics and optimists out there prepare for saome really bad news when ,iura will reveal the true goals of idea. So, that would be it...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I think that Griffith does not see building an army and taking a kingdom the old fashioned way as a charade.
That’s exactly it, he should see it that way considering the circumstances.  Griffith needs no army, Apostle or otherwise to defeat the Kushan and win the hearts of the people of Midland, the man is already a religious icon, their divine savior, their messiah.  He would be fulfilling the Falcon of Light prophesy to the letter if he single-handedly saved Midland from destruction, any odd powers he was observed using (like turning into a Griffin or something) would simply legitimize his status as a deity.  I think he wants try and gain his dream on his own terms, win it for himself like it should be, but that’s impossible under these conditions no matter how he goes about it because he’s simply serving God Hand’s purpose.  I really think he’s fooling himself.
I do not think that Griffith has changed that much, more jaded and cynic about his own human frailties of course, but I still think that his dream of the castle means more than just being on top, being a tyrant.  So the people matters to him, he might be prepared to sacrifice them, but he was always ready to sacrifice himself as well.
I personally don’t think Griffith has changed much either, but his situation certainly has, and there’s the problem; his refusal to acknowledge that fact.  If he truly wants a peaceful and good kingdom, then the people of Midland are the least of his worries. I also want to bring something up now that’s been bothering me since Locus showed up and hasn’t really been discussed yet. How loyal are these Apostles to Griffith? Why do the Apostles follow him?  Why are they helping him gain a position of unlimited power?  Because when Griffith is in power, they’re in power too, literally ruling the world, and we all know how Apostles rule.  So, sure, they bow to him now, but what if Griffith and his new “followers” don’t quite see eye to eye down the road, what if he tries to deny them the type of power that they so desire?  How loyal will they be to him then, is his word law as the God Hand reborn, will they obey his commands no matter how they feel about it?  I think not, so the real question is, no matter what his intention may be, what kind of Kingdom is Griffith building if it’s a kingdom built on the sweat of Apostles; one’s that will likely expect a large gratuity in return for their services?

I do believe that Griffith wants a peaceful kingdom, and I believe that the Apostles will humor him to a point, but once it becomes clear that Griffith’s kingdom is not theirs, I bet you could count the seconds until they turn against him (excluding Zodd).  Like I’ve said, Griffith is so obsessed with the physical expression of his dream, he’s forgotten what it means, he’s serving God Hand’s dream and the dreams of its disciples, whether he realizes it or not…

…and I’m afraid that when he does, it will already be to late.

-Griffith
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Well, that's rather optimistic.
What does Griffis have from his nice and shiny kingdom? Peace, for a god hand? Are you sure you catch the drift, man? :-/
A guy that kills all of his buddies, incites mass murder and massacres, has no problem threading over a rather big pile of dead bodies to get his castle, you say wants peace?
Whooooooaaa.... ;D
You had better theories.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Why hasn’t he already laid the place to waste then?  Why is he going to the trouble of playing Midland’s hero if Griffith really hates everything and wants kill it all, or oppress the hell out of it? :-/

By the way, Griffith saved Caska’s life in chapter 182 (to Guts utter shock and surprise), in case you don't know. I hope I didn’t spoil anything for you but I’m getting rather tired of your arrogant presumption when it comes to what Griffith is or isn't, there is no absolutely correct answer at this point.

-Griffith
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Oh my, you are a frail soul indeeed. My arrogant presumtions eh?
Well I did catch up, and I saw griffis save cascka from the rocks zodd splashed all over the place.
Why do you think he did it?
Caska has a very important role since she is his mother.
And don't get too cocky man, have you ever actually THOUGHT about other people posts. I don't write stuff to piss you off, I hope to get a feedback so I may compare to my opinion. You are so hasty to reply with a completely negative comment. Are you Miura? If so, may I have an autogram please? :D
And about that name speculation, Miura did say he wanted to name his character as katze, the german for cat. It's in his art book, ok? You just bugged it off with a "bad translation" comemnt. Thanx a lot. I checked it and it's no bad translation.
Peace :-*
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Oh my, you are a frail soul indeeed. My arrogant presumtions eh?
Well I did catch up, and I saw griffis save cascka from the rocks zodd splashed all over the place.

And don't get too cocky man, have you ever actually THOUGHT about other people posts. I don't write stuff to piss you off, I hope to get a feedback so I may compare to my opinion. You are so hasty to reply with a completely negative comment. Are you Miura? If so, may I have an autogram please? :D
Even so, my point stands, you state your idea’s and opinions as if they are facts that us dolts are just unaware of, then you condescendingly comment on other peoples theories and ideas with little or no proof to dispute them.  I’m sorry if I was curt but I believed what I said when I said it, I doubt any of my theories (or anyone else’s for that matter) will come true and you state yours like there’s no other possibility, it’s very annoying to some, me included.
Why do you think he did it?
Caska has a very important role since she is his mother.
Why is she important if he’s just a cold inhuman monster?  You also didn’t give me a reason why Griffith is playing the hero if he is going to be evil anyway?
And about that name speculation, Miura did say he wanted to name his character as katze, the german for cat. It's in his art book, ok? You just bugged it off with a  "bad translation" comemnt. Thanx a lot. I checked it and it's no bad translation.
That wasn't me, it was Olivier I believe, so take it up with him.  

Look, I’m sorry if my comment offended you but I felt I was just in saying it, you do seem very arrogant and condescending with some of your comments.  All the things you said about me, I feel could be said about you, so if you really find those qualities so detestable than you should understand why I said what I said and why I don’t regret it.

-Griffith

P.S. Peace.
 
Top Bottom