Griffith / Femto: One in the same?

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Well, I'll try to adjust the tone of my comments so they may appeal more to other ppl as invitations to a tought then insults or provocations.
However, I still disagree with the theory of a safe kingdom, even tough I hadn't mention that Fishbomb made my point when she said that femto must earn the trust of common folk so he may rule the world. I just don't see the need for gatsu and his struggle if griffis wishes a safe kingdom without apostoles rule. Maybe i'm a pessimist, but that's how I see it.
I must have been very distracted to accuse you of somebody elses post, sorry about that, I'll check more in the future.
However, to answer the subject, I'd say that Griffis and Femto are the same even tough they're not syncronized.
Griffis for some reason unknown to us, maybe due to some limitations imposed by some greater power, still to be revealed.What do you think about the Griffis being never born theory, meaning, that he was predestined to become what he is by god hand...?
 
And about that name speculation, Miura did say he wanted to name his character as katze, the german for cat. It's in his art book, ok? You just bugged it off with a  "bad translation" comemnt. Thanx a lot. I checked it and it's no bad translation.

It _is_ a bad translation.

He talks about the German word "Katze", but he says that he found out about that word _after_ he named Guts, and that it was a mere coincidence.

Before that, he explains that he named his main character "Guts" because Berserk was first supposed to be a shônen manga ("guts"/"konjô" is important in shônen manga, as you may know), and because he liked the way that word sounded.

So, when you "check" a Japanese text, make sure you _understand_ what it says...  :-/
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I just don't see the need for gatsu and his struggle if griffis wishes a safe kingdom without apostoles rule. Maybe i'm a pessimist, but that's how I see it.
But why would Griffith need to earn the trust of the people if he doesn’t intend to rule peacefully, he could just take over and rule by brute force?  But my point is that IF Griffith does want a peaceful Kingdom, then it’s going to be doomed anyway with the Apostles, he hasn’t thought about the consequences.  So whether is intentions are good (like I believe) or evil (like you believe) he may bring in the age of darkness either way.
What do you think about the Griffis being never born theory, meaning, that he was predestined to become what he is by god hand...?
I agree that Griffith was created by Idea specifically to serve his purpose in life, it seems he was always destined to become Femto.  I think in a way Femto always existed in that it was predetermined he was going to be the fifth God Hand for who knows how long.  But, I don’t think this necessarily means Griffith isn’t a “real man”, because Idea would have to manipulate many bloodlines in the process of creating Griffith, everyone might have been created this way since Idea had to create a world where Griffith would thrive.  Here’s an excerpt from the removed Chapter 83 that you should find very interesting, it supports your theory perfectly:
Griffith : "... Does that mean that you're the one" "that controlled my destiny ?..."

"That you're the one" "that arranged everything so that it would be this way !?"
Idea : "Dokyu..."

"It was established that you would be here since a distant past"

"By influencing the lower levels of human consciousness "and merging blood with blood" "I created the lineage that would give birth to the man you are"

"By manipulating History" "I paved the way for the times you would be born in" "and created an appropriate context for you"

"All the encounters you made so far" "were a part of the destiny that led you here as well"

So, it seems Idea manipulates everything through God Hand (at least according to chapter 83).

-Griffith
 

eintrigga

Today's Yamaba?
the question i will have to raise, then, would be what is the purpose of griffith's destiny? The path set by Idea and the Godhand is to guarantee that people would have negative emotions and desires -- therefore the path the ensures the existence of idea. If this were true, then Griffith is destined to become a king in order for the people to be unhappy.

If this is the case, then Griffith (sooner or later) should have a revelation -- that he has no dream (it's only preprogrammed) at all, and this should put him on a path not unlike Gatts'

yeah, i can imagine the ending where griffith takes on his individual journey like gatts' when he left the hawks

i think this is when griffith breaks away from fate

then again, this is all based on the assumption that the purpose of griffith is to create more power (negative emotion) for idea and godhand -- and this would sound mundane for berserk plot

---flame away!!---- ^^;;
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
the question i will have to raise, then, would be what is the purpose of griffith's destiny? The path set by Idea and the Godhand is to guarantee that people would have negative emotions and desires -- therefore the path the ensures the existence of idea.

As stated in my speculations section  ;) Wells sorta. You have a different take on it than what I said in there. What I was getting at is that humanity would experience the whole spectrum of emotions, but really strive (unconsciously) for the "short happiness, long HELL" ending.

I think Griff has a 'plan' of sorts. He HAS to have followed the cource of events here, much more than we have. He was a God Hand you know. As Griffith said before, I think Miura (and consequently, Griffith) are 10 steps ahead of us.
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
I agree that Griffith was created by Idea specifically to serve his purpose in life, it seems he was always destined to become Femto.  I think in a way Femto always existed in that it was predetermined he was going to be the fifth God Hand for who knows how long.  

Has anybody considerred that Idea might be lying to Griffith? I mean... it all sounds fine and well, but what if it just was said to convince Griffith that his fate was preordained and that nothing could be done to prevent it? I mean... does the God Hand look like people that inspores trust and tells the truth?

Just a thought...

And: I don't think Griffith wants a peaceful kingdom. I think he wants his kingdom, period. War, peace, the adoration of the people, everything.
 

eintrigga

Today's Yamaba?
Has anybody considerred that Idea might be lying to Griffith? I mean... it all sounds fine and well, but what if it just was said to convince Griffith that his fate was preordained and that nothing could be done to prevent it? I mean... does the God Hand look like people that inspores trust and tells the truth?

damn! never thought of that....after all, Griffith does have the power (it seems) to defy or destroy godhands

methinks that the Godhands are not omnipotent, they can set & plant a certain path, but they don't have complete control over the flow of events
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I highly doubt that everything Miura bases the spine of God Hand on to be on the pretext of a lie. They have no reason to lie at all. They are Gods, they manipulate Fate. Why should they have to lie? Plus there has been no evidence that hints that they are lying.
 
Plus there has been no evidence that hints that they are lying.

But one can wonder if Void knew something that the other God Hands didn't, in volume 13.
If so, that would mean that he was _hiding_ something (also, Miura said that the God hands had some kind of "masterplan", and just added ""Void" is the key word")...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
I dont doubt that Void knew something. That panel in volume 13 is very eerie indeed. However, this does not imply that the information we know about God Hand or Idea (expressed through their own dialogues), is false.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
And: I don't think Griffith wants a peaceful kingdom. I think he wants his kingdom, period. War, peace, the adoration of the people, everything.
When I say “peaceful kingdom” I mean one where the people support Griffith as their leader, he doesn’t rule by brute force.

About this lying business, I think if they were going to lie that they would tell Griffith that they hadn’t been controlling his fate, they basically told him he’s there pawn, that could have pissed him off (it might have, we’ll see), I just think lying about that wouldn’t work in their favor. I don’t think they lie, they’ve always seemed brutally honest.

As for Void in volume 13…too many possibilities on what it could mean for me to guess, including nothing. Maybe he thought something that happened at the Eclipse was a little suspicious, I see Void as a big speculator. :)

-Griffith
 

Fishbomb

Fear the slightly white swordsman!
About all this 'Griffith's humanity' business: I always felt that Griffith's worst and most inhuman sides became Femto, his humanity was indeed stripped away. BUT, what about the hawk of Light? Could that be Griffith's 'humanity' his good and 'noble' sides? I mean, for most apostles that side probably died right away, but Griffith seems to be a very special case.

The way I see it, Griffith now is complete again, while he was split in half before. Light and darkness in union, just like all other humans. Albeit with other powers and knowledge resulting from the experience. Now all I wonder about his exactly his physical 'host', Casca's child, is fitting into this. How much will it influence Griffith?
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
My standing is still my old point, the new Griffith is Femto's god-like existence, powered by Griffiths dream, and fleshly is Guts and Casca's child. Its a character that is still Griffith, but is a NEW griffith.
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Well, it is a new Griffis, or better yet, it's he real griffis. What he always had to become , i think...
As man he was incomplete, unawaken, until he sacrificed the hawks. In a way, before he became femto, I always had the feeling he'd fuck up and backstab someone, like, you never knew what he really had in mind.
I found him cooler still after watching the anime, followed by the music and all, as in the manga he was always kind of a weasely character. Boh, must be an impression I got...
what does the majority say?
 

The_Infragable_One

Who drank all the kool-aid?!
Funny,
I started this subject and didn't make any responses, comments, etc. I have enjoyed reading everyone's input on such a "heated" topic. Those insults were getting intense a while back. ( my reason for staying out of the line of fire)

Giffith's dream unrealized, Femto's appearance, Griffith's rebirth and advancing toward his dream once again; all of these make the character a "magnet" for speculation. I am not as knowlegdable as those who have read the manga, but I do enjoy what I've read at this site. (Thanks for the translations).

Griffith/Femto keeps me bewildered. I guess because I am spoiled to "cut and dry" hero/villian relationships. This being based on how I see Gatts and Griffith's relationship presently. His motive is clear (Griffith wants his own country); but his actions are somewhat confusing and leaves ME uncertain about true intentions (Griffith "drawing" powerful warriors to himself to gain his desires, visitng the graves of the Hawks to find if he still "feels" for his old companions, saving Caska from being crushed, etc.) To make along story short <to late>  :-X, I can't guess the next move of this character. Darn it! (Stayin' clean  ;D)

The direction this character is taking bothers most us who, by the nature of what he did in the beginning of the series to Gatts, Caska and the rest of the Hawks, want to hate him.
For the longest time, I couldn't wait for Gatts to shove 7ft. of cold, unforgiving fury into his gullet and send his insides spewing for a home on the ground.  >:(
As the series has progressed, I'm curious as to how Griffith will react to his new body, if or when an reapperance of Femto will happen, AND the day Gatts and Griffith will face each other for the last time: for better or worse.  
Though I've found a new respect for the character, I still want to HATE him just a little.  
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
Walter,
noot agaiiiin!!!! (screams like a gorilla) :eek:


Femto is forever here!!! He will come to your house to kill you!!
You can't escape from your worst nightmare...BUAHAHAHA!

What's the matter with you and femto, you always keep saying he's gone, while all he did was turn into a thing that looks and acts a little bit like a guy named griffis that once long ago had a mercenary band called taka no dan. ;)
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
What's the matter with you and femto, you always keep saying he's gone, while all he did was turn into a thing that looks and acts a little bit like a guy named griffis
Perhaps (its still not proven, so don't act like it is, and neither will I) but regardless, I was responding to this:
As the series has progressed, I'm curious as to how Griffith will react to his new body, if or when an reapperance of Femto will happen,
Which treats Femto like hes a completely seperate entity whos taking a piss in the spirit world while Griffith walks around on earth. Which is not the case.


So...NYAAAAA  :p :p :p
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
What's the matter with you and femto, you always keep saying he's gone, while all he did was turn into a thing that looks and acts a little bit like a guy named griffis that once long ago had a mercenary band called taka no dan. ;)

I have annoying questions! ;D

*All questions are being asked about the reborn “Femto”, NOT GRIFFITH!

1.Why didn’t he kill Guts?

2. Why does he refer to Griffith’s past on several occasions as if he is Griffith?

3. Why does he “care” that Rickert learn the truth?

Excerpt from 183:

Guts: Only chasing your dream...!! And you say it won't change!!?
“Femto”: Certainly you knew this. That's the kind of man I am. Only you knew that.

4. Why would “Femto” say this?

5. Why did he go to see Guts in the first place?

-Griffith
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Good call brutha. However, I think I have some answers. Well, theyre not definitive, but they are good assumptions.

1.Why didn’t he kill Guts?
Perhaps even a God Hand can only tamper with the plans of Causality so much...If you know what I mean.

Thats all I have to say. Good call, Griff.
 

White_Hawk

The Only True Free Spirit / Dark Horse Rider
I have some annoying answers ;D
Dear Sir, in answer to your questions I present the following:

1.His priority was to get caska pregnant so he may be reborn in the flesh world(he did get a wee bit too long). He would probably kill gatsu once finished, which we will nver know.Skully interrupted them.

2.He is Griffis in a way, only Griffis is a small, dreaming part of Femto. After all, he "was a dream called griffis". A dream is a nice, unreal experience. That's what griffis was...a dream too good to be true(as poor corkus noticed).

3.Beats me.

4.Look under 2.

5.He actually went to see caska. It seems to me he is incredebly connected to caska, being his mum and all. She has some great role we are yet to discover.
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
1.His priority was to get caska pregnant so he may be reborn in the flesh world(he did get a wee bit too long). He would probably kill gatsu once finished, which we will nver know.Skully interrupted them.
1. I meant when they met recently, if they did.
He would probably kill gatsu once finished, which we will nver know.Skully interrupted them.
Ah, you agree that Femto would have probably killed Guts.

2. Femto was described as a dream as well. Just a metaphor in both cases I think.

3. I think Griffith might want Rickert to know, but then again, we’re talking about Femto here aren’t we?

4. See two.
5.He actually went to see caska. It seems to me he is incredebly connected to caska, being his mum and all. She has some great role we are yet to discover.
5. He said he came there to see Guts.

Again, why did he talk to Guts as if he was Griffith rather than Femto, why no mention of the events in volume 3 (the last time Femto and Guts saw eachother) for instance?

Why did he seem so surprised that he saved Caska if he already had big plans for her? It seemed to be something he did on the spur of the moment, especially when he reflected on it in volume 183.

-Griffith
 

fletch

Treading trodden trails for a long, long time.
i have one question before i post more... i thought that gatts was the one that said that he didn't care if rickert hated him (for dispelling his perfect image of griffith, i'd imagine), but he needed to know the truth.

i didn't think that was attributed to griffith...
 

Griffith

With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yep, it was Griffith, here’s Cronus’ translation (It’s been a while since anyone has said that ;D):

“Rickert. Nothing has ended at this point. When you know the truth of what happened, if you come to despise me, then so be it.”

The only thing Guts says to Rickert on the subject (besides what happened) is that he won’t allow him to go with him because he can’t hate Griffith.

-Griffith
 
Top Bottom