Author Topic: If there were any doubts...  (Read 4213 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NightCrawler

  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1743
  • Karma: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • Aeons gone, vast, mad and deathless
Berserk isn't really "dark fantasy" either. It's plain fantasy
Miura has been very protective of Berserk

Offline Majin Tenshi

  • McCoy Golem!
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2177
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The can opener went bye-bye...
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2005, 06:25:06 PM »
WE ARE THE EVIL EMPIRE

The righter in GitS:SAC certainly know it, "American Empire" ...
Ok, so I leave and come back....

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

  • SK.net Sergeant at Arms
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4299
  • Karma: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2005, 06:45:40 PM »
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

Did you just wake up this morning and think, "It's about time someone let those Americans know what I think," ?

Offline CnC

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Oculos
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2005, 06:55:40 PM »
I'm sick of following my dreams.  I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later...
- R.I.P Mitch Hedberg
CnColors!

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2005, 01:45:35 AM »
America isn't the problem.  The Bush Administration is.

Online Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9861
  • Karma: 281
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: If there were any doubts... that I'm a stupid Troll.
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2005, 02:15:51 AM »
Oh, you bad boy, you EXPOSED TEH SECRET! :troll:

Yeah, but under Clinton we were like the best country ever. =)

And that's our saving grace, the very thing that puts our leaders in power promtly removes them for better or worse (hopefully, it can't possibly get worse), creating, in theory, an ebb and flow, back and forth, ever-changing, self-reforming system dependent on the will of the, albeit sometimes misguided, people. That's why we don't have repressive government regimes running the country for decades that nessecitate a military coup, like say, Portugal. :carcus:


BTW, little known or talked about fact, but Abraham Lincoln, front runner for Best President of the United States of America EVER, was actually the first and, arguably, only American dictator. I think he literally wiped his ass with the Bill of Rights at some time during the Civil War just to make the point, but I'm not sure. So, things have been worse despite all the constant bitching (as long as you're still bitching/hearing the bitching, things aren't that bad =).
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 02:30:13 AM by "Griffith No More!" »

Offline CnC

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Oculos
Re: If there were any doubts... that I'm a stupid Troll.
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2005, 03:01:39 AM »
That's why we don't have repressive government regimes running the country for decades that nessecitate a military coup, like say, Portugal. :carcus:

Aw, ZING, son!  I wasn't gonna go there, but I'll be damned if the trip wasn't a blast.

I'm currently residing in the south, where you wouldn't be too stretched to find someone who thinks Lincoln was a dictator.  Fortunately, they're too far into their 5th beer at 9 o'clock in the morning to "rise again"...

History, especially recent history, is often portrayed too monochromatically by too many morons...
I'm sick of following my dreams.  I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later...
- R.I.P Mitch Hedberg
CnColors!

Offline Sparnage

Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2005, 07:55:41 AM »
Did you just wake up this morning and think, "It's about time someone let those Americans know what I think," ?

There there Bob, you're fighting for a good cause no matter what those awful people say, you really really are. ;)

America isn't the problem. The Bush Administration is.

Yes, it wasn't like America chose Bush twice or anything. ;D

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18603
  • Karma: 682
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2005, 09:40:55 AM »
Don't worry guys, give China 30 more years and nobody will care anymore about politics in America. :void:

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

  • SK.net Sergeant at Arms
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4299
  • Karma: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2005, 11:25:59 AM »
There there Bob, you're fighting for a good cause no matter what those awful people say, you really really are. ;)

You getting smart with me Sparnage? Dont' make me come over there.

Offline CnC

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Oculos
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2005, 12:01:15 PM »
Don't worry guys, give China 30 more years and nobody will care anymore about politics in America. :void:

"bring it on", aaz....  "bring it on"
I'm sick of following my dreams.  I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later...
- R.I.P Mitch Hedberg
CnColors!

Online Griffith

  • The Millennium Falcon
  • Falconian
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 9861
  • Karma: 281
  • Gender: Male
  • My posts are better.
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2005, 07:54:39 PM »
Yes, it wasn't like America chose Bush twice or anything. ;D

What really gets me is that NOW his approval is in the toilet, like everyone forgot this guy sucked during the election; so, at least he's good at running for President (that and the Dems really suck at it). Also, the more liberal parties, sadly, have to rely on silly (splinter group libs, college idealists, etc.) voters, the kind that vote for totally extreme liberal third parties that want everything to change right now... despite the fact that it's a two party system and a third party has never been elected. They don't understand that the point is for the mainstream political ideology as a whole to slowly shift, or see-saw.

"Screw that, I want to vote for who I want!"

Great, I wish they'd masturbate in a way that doesn't have ramifications on the whole country. Then again, I voted Ahhnold. =)

Don't worry guys, give China 30 more years and nobody will care anymore about politics in America. :void:

Yeah, there's always that to fall back on. China, Empire of the past and the future. We're DOOMed. =)


P.S. Sparnage, classy move going out of your way to take cheap shots at Bob for risking his life for his country. That takes a lot of guts. :schierke:
« Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 03:57:30 AM by "Griffith No More!" »

Offline dwarfkicker

Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2005, 08:20:41 PM »
Quote
Yeah, there's always that to fall back on. China, Empire of the past and the future. We're DOOMed. =)

Yeah, if Bird Flu doesn't kill them first

:carcus: eh, eh, thin the herd a little, eh, cut down on the population a bit, eh :carcus:

Yeah I know, I'm an ass hole.

Offline Denial

  • Intellectually Dishonest
  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: 0
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2005, 09:24:02 PM »
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm


Wow, totally convinced me!

1. Nationalist sentiment exists. Fascism!

2. Debate over whether making prisoners of war stand up in cold rooms is inhumane. Torture!

3. Books talking about liberalism when we're fighting a war against fundamentalist Islam! Scapegoating!

4. Wow, the federal government sure spends a lot on one of the few things explicitly provided for under the Constistution!

5. Rampant sexism ...?

6. Controlled mass media ... ?

7. Obsession with national security. Okay, that's one so far. But given some people declaring war on us... Maybe kind of warranted?

8. Religion and government are intertwined ... ? (Historical note: Yeah, looks like Hitler and the rest of these guys were pretty popular with religions...)

9. You mean to tell me that there might be logrolling?! Damn that nefarious human nepotism.

10. Labor unions are criticized = labor unions are suppressed? Enforcement of [unconstitutional] campaign finance reform laws = suppression?

11. Disdain for intellectuals and the arts ... ? Maybe for some strained understanding of "intellectual" and "art."

12. Obsession with crime and punishment ... ? I think we call this projection.

13. Nepotism again. Wow. I guess no other organizations/governments would ever do that (see: the UN, every other country in the world).

14. Fraudulent elections! Fraudulent because I say so!


In conclusion: Reality check to conspiracy theorists and hyperventilating hyperbolists. Reality is not a little black and white morality play where the mere existence of things we may not like gives us free reign to exaggerate and demonize in a way that completely ignores meaningful degrees and distinctions.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2005, 09:26:33 PM by Denial »

Offline xechnao

  • The Board's Troll Boy
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1239
  • Karma: 0
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2005, 04:54:53 AM »
(Historical note: Yeah, looks like Hitler and the rest of these guys were pretty popular with religions...)
Duh, since you are so positive to allow yourself some irony, then enlighten me please on this.
Because my take is that your point here is wrong.

Fraudulent because I say so!
So, perhaps you didn't see the links?
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline incognitoX

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 141
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • you fail me
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2005, 06:52:57 AM »
Bush is teh hitler1

But what Aaz brought up, my history teacher said something quite similar. Pretty funny also that IBM is now part owned (supposedly) by the chinese.

Chinese faux communists will be our superiors.

keep skullknight.net evil!  \m/

Offline Denial

  • Intellectually Dishonest
  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: 0
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2005, 08:20:09 AM »
Duh, since you are so positive to allow yourself some irony, then enlighten me please on this.
Because my take is that your point here is wrong.

Hitler considered the Catholic church to be an enemy, and religion in general to be an obstacle to nationalism. (Because, you see, religions tend to, by and large, emphasize the humanity of all people, whereas nationalism seeks to put people of a specific national origin in a position of primacy.) Mussolini & Pinochet had to be on good terms with the Catholic church, mainly because the Catholic church is a powerful political institution in its own right (both in Italy and in South America).

I don't know, and am not particularly interested in Indonesian politics, but from what it looks like Suharto used religion, or lack thereof, as a way of identifying Communist political opponents... A strange example since it doesn't fit in exactly with the author's agenda. What agenda exactly? Well, if you look at the original article it comes from the "Secular Humanist" website, and the author conveniently defines [his conception of] "fascism" in such a way as to allow him to ignore autocratic governments that are more similar to his examples (USSR, Khmer Rouge, Cuba, etc etc.) but without a strong religious element so that he can pretend that an example that is less similar is in fact more similar than the other examples.

The problem with this, of course, is that it relies upon a perception of the US as a theocracy like Iran... Which it might be if you're a "Secular Humanist" (Note: Usage of secular humanism here is synonymous with fanatical anti-Christian). So, yes, if you're like Michael Newdow the US might be a "theocracy."

Is having mention of "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and on our coinage an establishment of religion? -- Maybe. However, the problem with Michael Newdow (and also with this little take off on Larry Britt's article) is absolutism. The people who wrote the First Amendment and voted for it also voted to ... have a minister present in Congressional meetings. By any rational standard this is a more substantial establishment of religion. The things that Michael Newdow prosecutes fall under the legal category of de minimis otherwise known as, "Too small to rationally care about."

Which of course, brings us back to where we started. One of the things the original article attempts to do is to posit "atheism" or "secular humanism" as the lack of a belief system, and thus allow the author to ignore (as I mentioned before) more similar examples, and instead draw a more outlandish (and politically motivated) one. You'll note in Larry Britt's original article that he mentions prosecutions of "secularists" specifically. Oh the humanity, Larry! Woe is you! Your local government might want to put up a nativity scene beside Santa. The oppression of having to see that other people don't share your religious views must be completely unbearable.

Since the article flows from a position of absolutism wherein even the permissability of religious expression constitutes the establishment of religion, its ability to make meaningful distinctions between things is destroyed. For virtually every claim that this author makes, you can point to pretty much any nation and see the same thing in action. Ex. Britain. Nationalism? Check. Established state religion? Check. Control of the media (BBC)? Check. Allegations of sexism? Check. Allegations of corporate favoritism? Check. Allegations of "suppressing labor power"? Check. Allegations of election fraud? Check. Etc, etc.

What this amounts to is a Yoda-like philosophy of politics. "Anger, fear, aggression" the fascist side of the government are they! -- A statement that may be true, but one that is completely banal, void of context, and which captures no important information. Relying on it as some sort of guide to figuring out what's "good" and "bad" is foolish because it's really easy to see "bad" motivations for people who don't agree with you... And, well, that's pretty much what this garbage is about, trying to impugn the US with the moral depravity of Nazi Germany. As far "bad" motivations for anything, Hitler is as high as you can go without crossing over into supernatural beings.

Personally, I feel that if you feel comfortable making moral comparisons of anything to Nazi Germany without discovering mass graves, your judgement is already questionable beyond belief. The questionableness of the author's judgement is confirmed with essentially every one of his "14 points," as they're all picked not from the reality of the expression of common traits in the "governments we historically agree are bad," but from the author's own preconceived ideas about how the US is fascist. He thus structures each and every single one of his points around the goal of demonstrating "Fascism!" in the US. If you pick your facts selectively enough and spin hard, you can misinterpret anything.

The rest of us who aren't off in la-la land see the guy picking his cherries (for one, calling all of these governments Fascist, because the connotation of Fascism is "right-wing," whereas the connotations of Socialism, as in the National Socialists, is "left-wing") and shaking our heads when he comes up with completely uncredible claims (The US Government controls the mass media? In your dreams.) or completely misguided interpretations of the politics of these past governments (Rampant Sexism? Uh, okay. Integral rather than ceremonial role of religion? Sure... "Protection of Corporate power"? A more legitimate assessment is the assumption of previously Corporate power into the powers of the State.)

Do we need even more demonstrations of questionable judgement? Well, some more examples: Writing for a journal titled "Free Inquiry" with the headline "The Republican War on Science." Yeah, totally a war there. Nope, Liberals/Democrats aren't waging "war on science" regarding genetic differences between Sexes/Races, only the Republicans are waging a war. Being published in the "Council for Secular Humanism" isn't really high ranking, on my list, but the content of the article itself is so iffy itself that it reflects badly on that site as well. And, of course, having the article re-re-published on a website titled "Project for the Old American Century" is probably the worst of all. Presumably the "Project for the New American Century" is some secretive Neoconservative plot for world domination. "Neoconservative," in case you're unfamiliar with the term, means "Jew." The "Project for the New American Century" is pretty much the Protocols of the Elders of Zion for the 21st centry, so suffice it to say this website is not exactly gleaming with credibility. I didn't check every one of the so-called "evidence" links, but most of them, from what I saw, went to your usual nutjob sites. The few that I saw that went to real news sites pretty much relied upon bizarre contortions of the facts to fit them with the authors prejudices.

Anyway, I'm tired of writing now, so I'm going to go do something more useful.

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3068
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm still better than you
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2005, 08:29:26 AM »
Don't worry guys, give China 30 more years and nobody will care anymore about politics in America. :void:
Don't forget North Korea and their Anti-aicraft bunkers!  :troll:
"Plenty of time to sleep when you're dead!"

Offline xechnao

  • The Board's Troll Boy
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1239
  • Karma: 0
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2005, 10:00:14 AM »
Hitler considered the Catholic church to be an enemy, and religion in general to be an obstacle to nationalism. (Because, you see, religions tend to, by and large, emphasize the humanity of all people, whereas nationalism seeks to put people of a specific national origin in a position of primacy.) Mussolini & Pinochet had to be on good terms with the Catholic church, mainly because the Catholic church is a powerful political institution in its own right (both in Italy and in South America).

I don't know, and am not particularly interested in Indonesian politics, but from what it looks like Suharto used religion, or lack thereof, as a way of identifying Communist political opponents... A strange example since it doesn't fit in exactly with the author's agenda. What agenda exactly? Well, if you look at the original article it comes from the "Secular Humanist" website, and the author conveniently defines [his conception of] "fascism" in such a way as to allow him to ignore autocratic governments that are more similar to his examples (USSR, Khmer Rouge, Cuba, etc etc.) but without a strong religious element so that he can pretend that an example that is less similar is in fact more similar than the other examples.

The problem with this, of course, is that it relies upon a perception of the US as a theocracy like Iran... Which it might be if you're a "Secular Humanist" (Note: Usage of secular humanism here is synonymous with fanatical anti-Christian). So, yes, if you're like Michael Newdow the US might be a "theocracy."

Is having mention of "God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and on our coinage an establishment of religion? -- Maybe. However, the problem with Michael Newdow (and also with this little take off on Larry Britt's article) is absolutism. The people who wrote the First Amendment and voted for it also voted to ... have a minister present in Congressional meetings. By any rational standard this is a more substantial establishment of religion. The things that Michael Newdow prosecutes fall under the legal category of de minimis otherwise known as, "Too small to rationally care about."

Which of course, brings us back to where we started. One of the things the original article attempts to do is to posit "atheism" or "secular humanism" as the lack of a belief system, and thus allow the author to ignore (as I mentioned before) more similar examples, and instead draw a more outlandish (and politically motivated) one. You'll note in Larry Britt's original article that he mentions prosecutions of "secularists" specifically. Oh the humanity, Larry! Woe is you! Your local government might want to put up a nativity scene beside Santa. The oppression of having to see that other people don't share your religious views must be completely unbearable.

Since the article flows from a position of absolutism wherein even the permissability of religious expression constitutes the establishment of religion, its ability to make meaningful distinctions between things is destroyed. For virtually every claim that this author makes, you can point to pretty much any nation and see the same thing in action. Ex. Britain. Nationalism? Check. Established state religion? Check. Control of the media (BBC)? Check. Allegations of sexism? Check. Allegations of corporate favoritism? Check. Allegations of "suppressing labor power"? Check. Allegations of election fraud? Check. Etc, etc.

What this amounts to is a Yoda-like philosophy of politics. "Anger, fear, aggression" the fascist side of the government are they! -- A statement that may be true, but one that is completely banal, void of context, and which captures no important information. Relying on it as some sort of guide to figuring out what's "good" and "bad" is foolish because it's really easy to see "bad" motivations for people who don't agree with you... And, well, that's pretty much what this garbage is about, trying to impugn the US with the moral depravity of Nazi Germany. As far "bad" motivations for anything, Hitler is as high as you can go without crossing over into supernatural beings.

I am sorry but I cant' follow you. What I know about the Vatican is that it didn't oppose Hitler (on the contrary they rallied to his side).
But this isn't what I am argueing about. The whole "arianism" thing's way was nothing but the religion they are talking about.


Personally, I feel that if you feel comfortable making moral comparisons of anything to Nazi Germany without discovering mass graves, your judgement is already questionable beyond belief. The questionableness of the author's judgement is confirmed with essentially every one of his "14 points," as they're all picked not from the reality of the expression of common traits in the "governments we historically agree are bad," but from the author's own preconceived ideas about how the US is fascist. He thus structures each and every single one of his points around the goal of demonstrating "Fascism!" in the US. If you pick your facts selectively enough and spin hard, you can misinterpret anything.

North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq have had hundreds of thousands of victims becuse of US' aggressiveness. Liberal goverments are believed to have been far less aggressive historically.

The rest of us who aren't off in la-la land see the guy picking his cherries (for one, calling all of these governments Fascist, because the connotation of Fascism is "right-wing," whereas the connotations of Socialism, as in the National Socialists, is "left-wing") and shaking our heads when he comes up with completely uncredible claims (The US Government controls the mass media? In your dreams.) or completely misguided interpretations of the politics of these past governments (Rampant Sexism? Uh, okay. Integral rather than ceremonial role of religion? Sure... "Protection of Corporate power"? A more legitimate assessment is the assumption of previously Corporate power into the powers of the State.)

Do we need even more demonstrations of questionable judgement? Well, some more examples: Writing for a journal titled "Free Inquiry" with the headline "The Republican War on Science." Yeah, totally a war there. Nope, Liberals/Democrats aren't waging "war on science" regarding genetic differences between Sexes/Races, only the Republicans are waging a war. Being published in the "Council for Secular Humanism" isn't really high ranking, on my list, but the content of the article itself is so iffy itself that it reflects badly on that site as well. And, of course, having the article re-re-published on a website titled "Project for the Old American Century" is probably the worst of all. Presumably the "Project for the New American Century" is some secretive Neoconservative plot for world domination. "Neoconservative," in case you're unfamiliar with the term, means "Jew." The "Project for the New American Century" is pretty much the Protocols of the Elders of Zion for the 21st centry, so suffice it to say this website is not exactly gleaming with credibility. I didn't check every one of the so-called "evidence" links, but most of them, from what I saw, went to your usual nutjob sites. The few that I saw that went to real news sites pretty much relied upon bizarre contortions of the facts to fit them with the authors prejudices.

So why did Peter Arnet got fired? Or why do the reporters have to be embodied to US troops in Iraq otherwise risk to be shot?

And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

  • SK.net Sergeant at Arms
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4299
  • Karma: 10
  • Gender: Male
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2005, 12:25:46 PM »
North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq have had hundreds of thousands of victims becuse of US' aggressiveness. Liberal goverments are believed to have been far less aggressive historically.

It really depends on how you look at it honestly, North Korea acting aggressivly invaded South Korea causing UN Aggression [Most nations in that war were under the United NAtions. Minus China, N. Korea, and Russia]. And Vietnam/Iraq... well that was our bad.

Offline Denial

  • Intellectually Dishonest
  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: 0
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2005, 09:03:03 PM »
I am sorry but I cant' follow you. What I know about the Vatican is that it didn't oppose Hitler (on the contrary they rallied to his side).

Which again, is an absolutist oversimplification of the reality of the situation. Did the Catholic church see Hitler's National Socialist party (before the war began) as good? Yes, because, as you may remember, the National Socialist party presented itself as a third way between the "right-wing" Weimar Republic and the "left-wing" atheistic Communist movement. Obviously religious organizations see atheism as a threat, and wish to align themselves against it. However, once Hitler started confiscating church lands, putting Mein Kampf in the place of the Bible, exterminating Jews (~1 million Jews were saved by the efforts of the Catholic church at protecting Jews) and exterminating Catholics (~3 million killed), you can be pretty sure that your mainline Protestants and Catholics were not considering Hitler's policies in any way consistent with Christianity. Attempts to say otherwise are just flat out historical revisionism.


Quote
But this isn't what I am argueing about. The whole "arianism" thing's way was nothing but the religion they are talking about.

Aryanism is pseudoscience based on Nietzschean / Wagnerian style ideas of the ubermensch. Presumably the identification of the blonde hair, blue eyes Germanic features as being indicative of Aryan traits (the Aryans, if I recall correctly, were the proto-Indo-European tribe who swept down into pre-Vedic India and established Vedic religion and whose language developed into Sanskrit and is one of the primary roots of Indo-European languages). What you mean is the "Volk," which is pretty much a Germanic sense of ethnic unity combined with a nostalgic longing for the golden age of the past. The pseudoscience of Aryanism contributed to this by pretending to, essentially, trace a lineage from the world-conquering giants of the Aryan tribe directly to the German people. In the sense that the "Volk" was a sort of anti-modern (anti-industrial) sort of movement with a utopian conception of the past, a fetishization of an agrarian lifestyle, and a presentation of an idealized future that can result from adopting its policies, it really strikes me as more aligned with modern Eco-Religiousity (See: EU ban on GM foods, Kyoto Protocol, general Leftist paternalism towards "indigenous lifestyles," etc) than what you'd like to claim it to be similar to.


Quote
North Korea, Vietnam and Iraq have had hundreds of thousands of victims becuse of US' aggressiveness. Liberal goverments are believed to have been far less aggressive historically.

And, so... What exactly does "Liberal" mean again? "Things I like and am uncritical about"? I thought it meant something along the lines of open-mindedness and permissiveness. Whether you like the US's commitment to those ideals or not (and liberalism in the correct usage of the word is generally something I consider to be good, even though at times it can have bad effects) the US is frequently far more "liberal" than, for example, the EU (which regularly utilizes State power to enforce policies that are much more far-reaching than almost anything the US might do).

In any case, one would have hoped that people on a Berserk forum would have a better grasp of Causality than you seem to be expressing. "Hundreds of thousands dead" because of "American aggressiveness"? Did the US start these wars, or did we just fight in them? You might have some problems with how the US has handled itself, but as we saw in WW2 Europe, in Communist Russia, in Communist China, in Vietnam after pulling out, in North Korea to this day, the cost in lives of non-intervention, or more tepid Neville Chamberlain style intervention, is often greater than if the US is, as you say, "Aggressive."

Offline Walter

  • 賢者
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 16112
  • Karma: 530
  • Gender: Male
  • Chapter ≠ Episode
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2005, 10:43:28 PM »
suc·cinct (sk-sngkt)
   1. Characterized by clear, precise expression in few words; concise and terse.

   antonyms:
     - lengthy, drawn-out, elongated, long-drawn-out, long-winded, wearisome.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline xechnao

  • The Board's Troll Boy
  • Of the Vortex
  • ****
  • Posts: 1239
  • Karma: 0
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2005, 11:57:16 PM »
... in Communist Russia, in Communist China, in Vietnam after pulling out, in North Korea to this day, the cost in lives of non-intervention, or more tepid Neville Chamberlain style intervention, is often greater than if the US is, as you say, "Aggressive."

This is western fiction.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Denial

  • Intellectually Dishonest
  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 122
  • Karma: 0
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2005, 02:23:54 AM »
suc·cinct (sk-sngkt)
   1. Characterized by clear, precise expression in few words; concise and terse.

   antonyms:
     - lengthy, drawn-out, elongated, long-drawn-out, long-winded, wearisome.

Haha. Sorry for making you read that, guess I've been in a verbose mood (see: procrastination).

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3068
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm still better than you
Re: If there were any doubts...
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2005, 10:01:16 PM »
This is western fiction.
Yea because everyone that lives in N.Korea just love it!

Did you know that Kim Jong Il invented the internet and has a basketball signed by Michael Jordan saying that he is the best!  :isidro: :isidro: :isidro:   Anyways, its not relaly the point, but the point is that some of these bits of fiction are actaully true.
"Plenty of time to sleep when you're dead!"