Is Guts' Beherit for him?

Status
Not open for further replies.
IsolatioN said:
Yeah, the beherit's active/summon the Godhand to answer someone's "deepest desire", or atleast thats what I gathered from volume 3.

It seems more like it activates based on them being in a state where their life and dreams as they know it have been irrepairably destroyed, and also includes the presence of the required sacrifices.
 
Well in my opinion he probably is not going to use it to become a monster. Lets look at what so far can be done with beherits.
1. Can be used to make an Apostle, who are pretty much forced to follow the godhands. EXCEPT the Kushan Emperor.
2. Can make godhands. Which generally seem to follow the 'Idea'. But if you recollect the previous encounter Griffith had with it. It said "Do what ever you wish." Maybey as a statement of true corruption to let ones self indulge into whatever one pleases, or to say you are free but have this added power.
3. Devour them and make them into a sword that can cut through Time and Space.

It seems number 3 isnt that plausible, with guts at least. One thing that alot of people mention is to use it to call the Godhands so he can kill them. My theory, which is probably out of the loop is if guts managed to corner griffith, he would try to use the Beherit to activate the power. Considering Guts mainly just wants to kill Griffith, he could end up making griffith the sacrifice. (Of course you guys will probably say thats not possible, but there isnt any evidence that its not.) Its also possible that something tottaly different will happen. For one Skull Knight has been in one of the Eclipses, before. Also we know that he previously encountered 4 of the 5 Godhands. I believe that theres another possiblity, that hasnt been uncovered. Maybey SK was a possible godhand, but rejected the idea. Making him something more. Its a little to early to tell exactly what the beherit will do.

PS I dont believe the Beherit is for the child caska found. I think that child is possibly griffith. Or is a remainder of Griffith, and guts/caska's child. Because griffith did that its thoughts were with him when Zodd and Griffith visted Rickert.
 
Maybe Serpico will sacrifice Farnese so he can make a better attempt at beating Guts in a fight. (and still lose.) I really doubt/hope Guts' beherit isn't for him. It would be compeltely contradictory to his character and his honor if he were to become an apostle. He doesn't use his cannon, arrows or berserk armor when fighting Serpico because of his honor. (Although it would look cool to see him in his apostle form... :guts:) It's safe to assume, I think, that Miura and Guts don't need to stoop that low to have Guts come out on top. I think certain things will happen that will enable Guts to get close enough to Griffith to take him down. (eg. the brand, encounter with Slan?, maybe even the berserk armor eventually...) It would also make for a better story if a different character were to use it. Miura has sad it won't end pessimistic, but that doesn't mean tragedy won't be involved leading to the ending. (Meaning someone from Guts' band is sacrificed). Who knows, maybe Lady Charlotte will end up sacrificing Griffith somehow. :chomp:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Looks like I forgot to reply to that thread long ago.

Tenro said:
Well, "not pessimisic" isn't the same as happy, or even positive; it's a term Miura-san no doubt chose for its ambiguous meaning.

It sure doesn't mean it'll be a happy ending, but I'd like to know what you think it is if it doesn't imply some positiveness. A neutral ending? Also, Miura didn't use the term because it was ambiguous, it's just the Japanese way of speaking (well, his way too) and he was actually replying to someone asking whether the ending would be "desperate" or not when he said that, you have to place his answer in the context.

Tenro said:
My favorite theory remains that Guts will "lose" the beherit at a crucial moment for one chosen by causality.

Haha, isn't that everybody's favorite theory? :guts:

IsolatioN said:
Oh really? Thats interesting! Well thats just my personal opinion that Berserk will never end happy.

Yeah well, while I'm not asking you to revive the discussion, it'd be good to provide some argumentation as to why you think like that next time. That'd make the discussion more interesting and allow some more debating.

IsolatioN said:
I wasn't really sure what to say other then "wander" to represent the souls in the vortex.. I suppose "flow with" would of been a better choice of words, but on Vol. 3, page 135 Femto states in the middle panel "...and you shall wander within that dark swirl of souls for all eternity".

I see, well I guess it works then since the Vortex of Souls itself wanders in the abyss, but from what we've seen the souls within it just stay in there. But that's all pretty speculative anyway.

mike.william said:
If I had to put money on who'd use the Beherit I'd say Isidro. He has shown that "step on whomever I need to attain my ambition" attitude at times, and yet he doesn't seem to have the capacity to become anything as remarkable as his ambition demands.

How so? He seems pretty talented for his age, and he's also relatively strong-willed, which goes against that possibility. Anyway I really don't think it necessarily has to be a member of Guts' group that will use the beherit, actually I find it unlikely. Madd.dawgg's post sums it up nicely I think.

Zelz said:
I don't think Guts is going to use the Beherit anytime soon. It would totally contradict what he has been striving and adventuring for, for quite some time.

Yes, it would be totally against what he stands for, and sort of incompatible with the Berserk's armor anyway.

osca said:
Can make godhands. Which generally seem to follow the 'Idea'. But if you recollect the previous encounter Griffith had with it. It said "Do what ever you wish." Maybey as a statement of true corruption to let ones self indulge into whatever one pleases, or to say you are free but have this added power.

Guts' beherit can't be used for someone to become part of the God Hand, and anyway the God Hand is complete now. Also, the trick with causality is that by doing what they want, the members of the God Hand are also doing what the Idea of Evil wants.

osca said:
Devour them and make them into a sword that can cut through Time and Space.

That's specific to SK though. And you've omitted the possibility of not using the beherit at all.

osca said:
One thing that alot of people mention is to use it to call the Godhands so he can kill them. My theory, which is probably out of the loop is if guts managed to corner griffith, he would try to use the Beherit to activate the power. Considering Guts mainly just wants to kill Griffith, he could end up making griffith the sacrifice. (Of course you guys will probably say thats not possible, but there isnt any evidence that its not.)

Ok, so first, to use the beherit to call the God Hand so he could kill them is just the reason Guts took the beherit with him in the first place. He didn't know how it worked and that's why he thought he might find a way to get to them through it. Only it doesn't work like that, you can't "activate" a beherit whenever you want. That also invalidates your theory, which is very unlikely and quite far-fetched even if it wasn't officially stated that it's completely impossible for a branded person to become an apostle or for a member of the God Hand to be used as a sacrifice. Second, there's the fact that Griffith isn't the most precious thing Guts has, so he wouldn't do as a sacrifice, especially if the goal was to kill him. So yeah, no matter how you look at it I highly doubt this to ever happen.

osca said:
For one Skull Knight has been in one of the Eclipses, before.

We know that SK interrupted the Occultation in which Guts was sacrificed, that's all.

osca said:
Also we know that he previously encountered 4 of the 5 Godhands. I believe that theres another possiblity, that hasnt been uncovered. Maybey SK was a possible godhand, but rejected the idea.

Actually that's complete speculation that he encountered 4 of the 5 God Hand before, and anyway how could he possibly have encountered the fifth one before since it's Femto and he was just "born"? As for the possibility of SK refusing to become a God Hand member, sorry but I said so years ago. :badbone:

osca said:
I dont believe the Beherit is for the child Casca found. I think that child is possibly griffith. Or is a remainder of Griffith, and guts/Casca's child.

Me neither. Why would that child even need a beherit? He's a "superior being". I don't think he's Griffith since Griffith already exists as a separate entity, but I've speculated in the past about him being a strange mix of Griffith's powers and the ego of the Demon Child that would have been reincarnated during the events at Albion.

Borgoff said:
Maybe Serpico will sacrifice Farnese so he can make a better attempt at beating Guts in a fight. (and still lose.)

Haha well since he only fought Guts to protect Farnese that wouldn't make much sense. :guts:

Borgoff said:
He doesn't use his cannon, arrows or berserk armor when fighting Serpico because of his honor.

Actually he tried to use his repeating crossbow against Serpico when they fought on the cliff, same with his mini-grenades. It's just that Serpico was good enough to prevent it and avoid the attacks. As for the Berserk's armor when they fought in the forest of pillars, using it wouldn't have been very wise, he would have lost control of himself in a situation where he just couldn't afford it. And the cannon would have drawn too much attention, not mentioning the fact that Serpico may have avoided it. I don't think these fights had much to do with honor, although Guts sparing Serpico's life speaks much of his actual state of mind.

Borgoff said:
It's safe to assume, I think, that Miura and Guts don't need to stoop that low to have Guts come out on top.

Yeah, and Miura did say that Guts would remain human in the past (meaning he wouldn't become an apostle).
 
A

Air_

Guest
Hmm-- Maybe he could just give it to SK?
Don't you think? He could eat it.
Hehe, sorry this is my first message :serpico:
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Sama said:
Hmm-- Maybe he could just give it to SK?
Don't you think? He could eat it.

Yes, he could of course. However he had the occasion several times in the past and didn't, and besides that would be pretty anticlimactic, don't you think?

Sama said:
Hehe, sorry this is my first message

Welcome to SK.net then! :serpico:
 
A

Air_

Guest
Aazealh said:
Yes, he could of course. However he had the occasion several times in the past and didn't, and besides that would be pretty anticlimactic, don't you think?

Welcome to SK.net then! :serpico:


Yes, I can see that.. But on the other hand it would be a big mistake to keep it, if it's his Beherit.. The only way he can stop this "circulation" (of beherit from its owner, to its owner) is to end it, by giving it to SK..

But I agree with you about this, it would bring lots of consequences, perhaps more dramatic and negative things will happen to them..
That is exactly why I freaking LOVE it; It is all at the bottom, it's not hopeless thought, but It could get worst... Zodd
And now when I think of it: He should keep it for a while and see what happens and in the worst case give it to SK. Because Guts would never use it for anything else but keeping it, I mean he just wouldn't let himself become a monster or an apostle.. He made peace with his
He made peace with all the tragic things that happen to him, to his beloved and to all of the members of the band of Hawk. But he will take care of person who caused it, oh yes he will :guts:

But Sk might not eat it because it belongs to him (?) which makes me think of another thing:

If that was the count's Beherit, it returned to him after seven years, right?
And it made him contact with the Godhand.. And the demon lord and ghosts dragged him into hell. So that's the end of it. Can a Beherit have more than one owner? It did react to its surroundings and things that happened around him, so it's not all "useless" after all.
Ahh useless is such an improper word. :)

PS. Thank you very much, makes me so happy to see all of you "gathering around" in here and writing and discussing about Berserk, one of the bestest best :) stories ever written!DS. Serpico
 
What a crappy thread. Who in the right mind could have made such a thing :puck:

Anyways, by looking the way things are going, I dont think that beherit will come back until the end of the manga, specifically to have a final encounter with the godhand.

Some would say that Serpico would use it for a number of reasons, but I don't think Miura plans to have the current main charecters to be as disposable as the last group.
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
Sama said:
Yes, I can see that.. But on the other hand it would be a big mistake to keep it, if it's his Beherit.. The only way he can stop this "circulation" (of beherit from its owner, to its owner) is to end it, by giving it to SK..

If he's destined to use the beherit then it'll be there when he'll need it, no matter what happens. It's just your assumption that giving to SK is the only way to prevent anything, and as a matter of fact there may be a reason SK didn't end up with it... Guts didn't intend to keep carrying it after his talk with Flora but Puck insisted. That might be a sign for all we know. Like I said, Guts had many occasions to give it to SK but didn't, it's enough of a constatation on its own to doubt that possibility.

Sama said:
And now when I think of it: He should keep it for a while and see what happens and in the worst case give it to SK. Because Guts would never use it for anything else but keeping it, I mean he just wouldn't let himself become a monster or an apostle..

He's already been keeping it for a while and nothing really happened. If the beherit was to be used by someone in the group they'd have no way to foresee it at all. You just can't know before it actually happens, so how do you think could they possibly give it to SK in such a case? It's like the beherit just activated, someone is going to sacrifice and then *stop*, let's call SK on his cellphone and tell him to quickly come over to eat it? That's not very likely IMO. And anyway yeah, I don't think anyone in the group is going to use it.

Sama said:
But Sk might not eat it because it belongs to him (?) which makes me think of another thing

It belongs to who? Who said it belonged to somebody? There's no name written on it. SK ate a lot of beherits that didn't belong to him. Beherits are supernatural sentient objects, so the concept of "belonging" is hardly applicable to them. Some people are meant to use them and keep them for a while, but that's as far as it goes to our knowledge. As for SK, he also may not be needing any more beherits since he can use his special sword technique already (which doesn't mean more would hurt though).

Sama said:
If that was the count's Beherit, it returned to him after seven years, right?

It returned to him when he needed it, yes.

Sama said:
And it made him contact with the Godhand.. And the demon lord and ghosts dragged him into hell.

Uhh no, after he refused to sacrifice his daughter, and because he was dying, the Vortex of Souls (hell) came and took him. Not a demon lord or ghosts.

Sama said:
Can a Beherit have more than one owner? It did react to its surroundings and things that happened around him, so it's not all "useless" after all.

Yes, different people can use the same beherit. I don't believe people really own them. Also, beherits are sentient and react to what happens around them yeah, but that doesn't automatically mean they're useful to the person carrying them.

Sama said:
Thank you very much, makes me so happy to see all of you "gathering around" in here and writing and discussing about Berserk, one of the bestest best :) stories ever written!

Well, you're welcome.

DemonX v.2.0 said:
What a crappy thread. Who in the right mind could have made such a thing :puck:

Might be time to lock it then. :SK:

DemonX v.2.0 said:
Anyways, by looking the way things are going, I dont think that beherit will come back until the end of the manga, specifically to have a final encounter with the godhand.

It's not like it's gone or anything though; Guts has been carrying it since volume 2 but it hasn't had a predominant role for now and I think that's normal. In fact it may not ever have one (I think it most likely will play a role at some point though).
 

trapped_soul

"This is it. It's over."
Aazealh said:
As for SK, he also may not be needing any more beherits since he can use his special sword technique already (which doesn't mean more would hurt though).
if more beherits are added to the sword it might grow more powerful. there might even be some more techniques to it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom