How to Kill Locus

Ok, so today I saw a picture of the Locus (apostle form) figure. And of course, my first thought was "how could I kill him?" (I admit I'm a bit Rakshasian)
I've listed several options in the poll.
Also, maybe we can speculate on if Locus in fact--like Mozgus--has a fleshy interior, or if--more liek Terminator 2--he turns into metal through out. If his interior is soft, then a slice with the DS is best, but if it's all metallic, Guts et al. will need to get there hands on some liquid nitrogen, a ballistic gun, and a vat of molten steel.

Even if there was a need for the immediate death of Locus (which there isn't other than him being an apostle) there really is NOTHING to make a sound guess as to the best method of killing him. You're better off sticking to the random speculation going on in the "how to kill Zodd" thread.

Honestly, for someone who places so much emphasis on the correct way a message must be worded you sure don't seem to give enough consideration to what the message is.

CnC said:

Even if there was a need for the immediate death of Locus (which there isn't other than him being an apostle) there really is NOTHING to make a sound guess as to the best method of killing him.  You're better off sticking to the random speculation going on in the "how to kill Zodd" thread.

Honestly, for someone who places so much emphasis on the correct way a message must be worded you sure don't seem to give enough consideration to what the message is.

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I paraphrase MC Hammer when I say "doo-duh-doo-duh-oooo...stop, hatertime".

guts needs to put him in a leg lock.. like an inverted hoof hook

The DS is a mighty piece of metal that can probably deform most metals if it isn't too thick, so id go with that, and its not like Guts has much of a choice.

yes, I guess considering that Guts cracked Grunbeld's conundrum skin, something steel-like wouldn't be a big deal for him.

that's corundum, and despite being only second to diamond in hardness, it's really not that resistant to blunt force, so berserker guts and his dragon slayer wouldn't have that much trouble cracking it. So, Something like solid steel might actually be impossible for him to cleave, for all we know.

Now, before you jump to the Mozgus counter-argument, keep in mind that the inquisitor's armour wasn't quite as thick as Grunbeld's, and that unlike Locus, he had a soft interior.

IgnusDei said:

it's really not that resistant to blunt force

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Wrong, corundum is actually a very tough mineral, unlike diamond. Its tensile strength is also higher than most steels. It's far from being indestructible, but it's not brittle either. The fact Guts managed to crack it means he's very strong, not that Grunberd's skin is fragile.

IgnusDei said:

unlike Locus, he had a soft interior.

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And how exactly do you know that Locus doesn't have a soft interior? You're his physician? Not that I think it's the case or anything, I'm just wondering why you're stating that so confidently. In any case, it won't be easy for Guts to slice him up, that's all that matters.

sorry, i got from the discussion that we were assuming that locus had a metal interior, and now that i've reread it, is an odd conclusion to come to.

bah, sleep deprivation is not my friend.

as for my misconception on corundum:

[quote author=Aazealh]
It's not exactly like that. Grunberd's body is made of Corundum, a very hard mineral (second hardest after diamond), meaning that it can only be scratched by itself or a diamond (well, there are exceptions though). However, mineral hardness differs from mineral fracture toughness, which is the capacity of a material to resist to fracture when suddenly stressed. While Corundum is also known for its excellent toughness among minerals, with enough force applied it can be cracked using steel, just like a diamond can be split with a $5 hammer.
[/quote]

IgnusDei said:

sorry, i got from the discussion that we were assuming that locus had a metal interior, and now that i've reread it, is an odd conclusion to come to.

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It's Ok, no problem.

IgnusDei said:

as for my misconception on corundum:

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And? There's no contradiction in what I said. With enough force applied it can be cracked, like I said. However it's a tough mineral, and the fact Guts could crack it speaks more of his strength than of corundum being brittle, like I also said. That was my point, that saying "it's really not that resistant to blunt force" is underestimating the material (and Guts' awesomeness). It's breakable, but that doesn't mean it's fragile (unlike diamonds which are very brickle), otherwise Grunberd would be pretty weak. Guts gave him a small crack while in the armor and I'm sure he could do it again, but dealing serious damage will certainly prove more difficult. If he was able to break Grunberd into pieces, then it'd mean he'd be able to cleave through solid steel as well (or at the very least to severely deform it).

well, the 5 dollar hammer comment got me to underestimate the toughness of corundum, so again, sorry for not being clear.

I guess i should perhaps explain my weird little logic a little better.

-Daemon says that guts should have no problem taking down locus, since he managed to crack Grunbeld's corundum skin.
-I disagreed, based on Aaz's post on the properties of the mineral. While corundum is incredibly hard and tough, its resistance to blunt force is only relatively weak, though still considerable. Steel, while not as hard, has much better resistance due to its flexibility...or so i assumed. Wrong? Probably. In any case, me saying "it's really not that resistant to blunt force" was a gross exaggeration.
-Hence, i come to the conlusion that Locus would be more difficult to take down than Grundbeld should his interior be flexible metal.

As for the possibility that Locus interior may not be wet, it is implied by his design. Usually, in nature or in artifice, an armour or carapace meant to protect a fragile interior has seams so as to permit movement. It's so common it's taken for granted, and when we see that trait on anything from a mech to a giant insect monster, we automatically assume that there are inner workings. Locus' centaur form has none save for his visor, (which reveals nothing save for crackles of lightning), and yet he moves around unrestricted. This would imply the opposite.

I will go as far as to say (in my mind...lol) Locus isn't PURE METAL while in apostle form. It seems so far in Berserk...no matter apostle, human or wutever else...is made up of flesh and blood. Get past the fact Locus is a apostle...forget that fact he can 'merge' with his horse, if he WERE pure metal...(in my mind again)...he would be nothing more than an oversized paper weight. Even the skeletons Guts fought ALL THE WAY BACK IN VOL 1, yes they were just skeletons, but, it plausible to say the skeleton itself is still an organic substance. Ok..lemme try and clarify further. We've seen 'ghosts' inhabit living organisms...right...even though there is no flesh attached to the skeletons in vol 1...like i said before, the skeletal structure IS an organic substance, hence is it an appropriate agent for a demon/ghost, whatever to inhabit. MY WHOLE POINT NOW: (thanx for baring with me)...we've never seen a suit of armor (just the metal itself) inhabited by a ghost and attacking Guts. So it wouldn't make any sense for Locus' flesh to suddenly become all metal...how would he move? He couldn't. Underneath, he is flesh and blood. ...Shush...HE IS!

Now how to kill him, evade his insanely long lance and aim for is the legs...they seem skinny and look like a tempting target. It looks as if Guts nailed them a few good times, Locus would be in trouble...like I said it's all about evading his lance.

IgnusDei said:

As for the possibility that Locus interior may not be wet, it is implied by his design. Usually, in nature or in artifice, an armour or carapace meant to protect a fragile interior has seams so as to permit movement...

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I'm not so sure an Apostle's design has to follow the laws and patterns of nature. They are, by definition, supernatural beings.

Proj2501 said:

The skeletal structure IS an organic substance, hence it isn't an appropriate agent for a demon/ghost, whatever to inhabit ...we've never seen a suit of armor (just the metal itself) inhabited by a ghost...

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You seem to be overlooking the name of this website. The sound effect "Ka-rang" is made when the Skull Knight puts Rochine's beherit down his throat, implying he is hollow and composed of metal.

Now how to kill him...

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"If it bleeds... we can kill it." Honestly, I don't understand the fascination with this topic. Guts has been against tough odds in the past, and has always managed to succeed. Just because Locus is shiny like metal doesn't mean their battle (presuming they even fight) will be any different. Unless you think Locus will be the one to kill Guts? XD

IgnusDei said:

well, the 5 dollar hammer comment got me to underestimate the toughness of corundum, so again, sorry for not being clear.

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It's Ok, I said that to put some emphasis on the fact hardness (referring to diamond in this case) didn't mean toughness originally, because the person I was replying to thought diamond (and by extension corundum) was unalterable using steel and that it implied the DS had to have magical properties to be able to crack it.

IgnusDei said:

Hence, i come to the conlusion that Locus would be more difficult to take down than Grundbeld should his interior be flexible metal.

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Well, it all depends on the quality of the metal. Since he's a supernatural creature, we really can't make any serious guess regarding his resistance until we actually see him taking hits. Guts was never able to even scratch Zodd's horn(s), and they're not even metal, see what I mean?

Proj2501 said:

It seems so far in Berserk...no matter apostle, human or wutever else...is made up of flesh and blood.

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Grunberd's apostle form is made of mineral...

Proj2501 said:

Even the skeletons Guts fought ALL THE WAY BACK IN VOL 1, yes they were just skeletons, but, it plausible to say the skeleton itself is still an organic substance.

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That's pretty much irrelevant.

Proj2501 said:

we've never seen a suit of armor (just the metal itself) inhabited by a ghost and attacking Guts.

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Like Wally pointed out, you're forgetting about Skull Knight.

Proj2501 said:

So it wouldn't make any sense for Locus' flesh to suddenly become all metal...how would he move? He couldn't. Underneath, he is flesh and blood.

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If the outer shell of his body is only made of metal and has no joints, even if he was all flesh and blood inside he still couldn't move. Irrelevant again. He's a supernatural monster, you shouldn't bother yourself with so many assumptions.

Proj2501 said:

Now how to kill him, evade his insanely long lance and aim for is the legs...

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So to kill him you'd have to evade his attacks and hit him!? Inconceivable!

.....Your right....I totally overlooked the Skully situation. Wow....ok, forget my last post.

He's just gonna cleave him into pieces like everything else.

I'm sure its just like killing any other apostle and such...the thing is which would be the most effective way?

On the wide spread look carefully at his horse legs. Notice the joints, I would think the Dragonslayer will get sunken into the joints (knees, elbows), areas where the metallic like skin has to be weaker because a lot of movement occurs there.

EUIX said:

Notice the joints, I would think the Dragonslayer will get sunken into the joints (knees, elbows), areas where the metallic like skin has to be weaker because a lot of movement occurs there.

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Yeah, his joints just can't be solid metal (otherwise he wouldn't be able to move), so they might actually be his weak point.

Just drop him in water and he'll short circuit.

Vaxillus said:

Just drop him in water and he'll short circuit.

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I believe he will be more likely drowned...

(Schierke) could just use her magic to drop him in the middle of the ocean. If he's part metal he won't be able to swim and through corrosion and possibly the need to breath he'd die. Or it'd take so long guts would be dead before he got out.

joeyjones said:

(Schierke) could just use her magic to drop him in the middle of the ocean.

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I don't think she could actually.

EUIX said:

  On the wide spread look carefully at his horse legs. Notice the joints, I would think the Dragonslayer will get sunken into the joints (knees, elbows), areas where the metallic like skin has to be weaker because a lot of movement occurs there.

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When in doubt always go for the kneecaps.

Aazealh said:

I don't think she could actually.

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Well, if they were near the ocean I'll bet she could. She's done some pretty crazy magical things (ie, flooding a town) so I don't think some telekinesis is out of here abilities.

But teleporting him to an ocean somewhere is not realistic or exciting.

smoke said:

Well, if they were near the ocean I'll bet she could.

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If they were near the ocean, maybe she could manage to have him drop in it yeah. However he'd be near the coast and able to get out easily, not in the middle of it.

smoke said:

She's done some pretty crazy magical things (ie, flooding a town) so I don't think some telekinesis is out of here abilities.

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She flooded Enoch with the help of an elemental spirit though, not out of sheer will. She'd also have to summon one if she were to try something against Locus. And I don't think he'd be as easy to fight against as trolls or daka anyway, so that's really highly speculative. He didn't seem concerned when Ganishka started frying his men in Wyndham, so who's to say how effective Schierke's magic would be on him?

smoke said:

But teleporting him to an ocean somewhere is not realistic or exciting.

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Yeah, that's out of the question.