Roderick's Ambition

Forgive me if a similar topic was created while I was away from the board, but I couldn't find any after some relatively extensive searching (aside from a brief mention by Aaz in a current episodes thread). Anyway...

Does anyone else think that Roderick would be willing to betray Magnifico? He certainly seems to be more intelligent, and rather mischievous in his dealings with both Magnifico and Farnese (and their mother certainly seemed to think so). In particular, I had thought of this possibility: Let us say that Magnifico's older brothers die due to upcoming events, either as a result of ensuing conflicts (perhaps if Griffith isn't satisfied with just controlling Midland...) or by assassination, at the hands of Magnifico who wishes to become first in line. I am particularly thinking of his speech regarding the total rearrangement of the political situation his family had found themselves in, in episode 255, when he is speaking to Roderick about their plans. Now, following Guts and crew for any amount of time could lead to an accidental death, or Roderick could probably arrange for one that would leave him looking blameless. With Magnifico out of the way, provided that he marries Farnese, he would thus be next in line as head of the Vandimion family.

This is rather baseless, I know, but simply an idea floating around in my head, and I was curious as to whether anyone else had thought the same thing.
 

Aazealh

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bph said:
Does anyone else think that Roderick would be willing to betray Magnifico?

No, I don't think so. I also don't think he's as bad as you make him out to be. Nor do I see Magnifico trying to kill his brothers. Anyway, it's not like they're going to have the opportunity to do such things before a long time, if ever. Even putting aside the fact Farnese' plans are likely to greatly differ from becoming a housewife, being head of the Vandimion family isn't something that seems easy to do. I doubt Roderick has the competences. Lastly, he seems rather passionate about the sea. I think his current life suits him more than that of Federico de Vandimion.
 
I have to agree with you on those points, Aaz, but I suppose that the real elephant in the room, so to speak, is this: How, exactly, does he plan to benefit from a marriage to Farnese? It seems to me that if he simply returns to a life on the high seas, granted one that he is passionate about, it would have been a waste. I mean, if you're going to go off and discover new civilizations or generally be a man at arms, why do you need to marry into a family that your country is only marginally aligned with (I believe he mentions that they are members of a different religious rite, or some such thing). Marrying Farnese wouldn't benefit him in the slightest back home, after all. I'm just fascinated by what his motivation could really be here, and it's clear that his cards aren't yet on the table (after all, in volume 30 he clearly goes against Magnifico's wishes, and Magnifico doesn't appear to really understand what he's after). He certainly doesn't seem to be the type to marry for prestige only. So essentially, what do you think his motive is, because I'm really at a loss?
 

Walter

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bph said:
I have to agree with you on those points, Aaz, but I suppose that the real elephant in the room, so to speak, is this: How, exactly, does he plan to benefit from a marriage to Farnese?
Cold, hard, Vandimion cash. They're likely the richest family on the continent, and marriage always carries with it a dowery. Furthermore, she's pretty hot dude.
 

Aazealh

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bph said:
How, exactly, does he plan to benefit from a marriage to Farnese?

He's more or less in disgrace with his own family, from what he said. Getting married to the sole daughter of the most powerful and influent family of the mainland would certainly bring him back in favor. Logically, that's his main motivation. It's what he and Magnifico talked about. Also, because he dreams of his country being a nation of explorers doesn't mean it's the case. He's a naval officer and he has duties at home, if he's not in a dominant position he's only got to do what he's told (just like Magnifico, albeit probably on a lesser scale given their respective personalities and social positions). He's wasn't going on an adventure in Vritannis, he just came to deliver a message. Not exactly the most prestigious mission.

Now, there's a second factor to this situation that makes Roderick's character interesting. So far he's manifested an interest toward Farnese that goes beyond simple political arrangement. He seems to really be into her, and acts accordingly. His scheming with Magnifico and the prospect of gaining a lot of power and influence back in his country appear to be only second to this. It's the real unknown element here, and it's what makes these events interesting. That goes together with the fact that he seems to be a kind of swashbuckler (fancy word!! :badbone:), in the sense that he's pretty much following his whims right now. He's taking Farnese and her friends to Elfhelm and that's most likely going against whatever orders he had (not hard to see why he's in disgrace...).

bph said:
Marrying Farnese wouldn't benefit him in the slightest back home, after all.

Wrong, see up.

bph said:
I'm just fascinated by what his motivation could really be here, and it's clear that his cards aren't yet on the table

Well I do think all his cards are on the table. What's left to reveal? He and Magnifico hastily planned to marry him to Farnese so they could both gain power in their respective families, Roderick directly and Magnifico indirectly (through Roderick). But the fact is Roderick do seem to genuinely like Farnese. He's an adventurous guy and her unusualness and sulfurous reputation probably caught his fancy. Not to mention that she's pretty hot, like Walter said. Magnifico must have been the one that took the initiative to scheme the wedding, but Roderick is apparently less calculating and more impulsive.

Now he's doing something that benefits him doubly: he's gaining the favor of the woman he intends to marry (and will stay in her company on his own ship for months, a good setup to get acquainted further), which would both please him personally and advantage him socially, and he's going on a journey to a mythical island, at the same time avoiding the Vritannis battle and its political aftermath, not coming home right away to do something he would undoubtedly find boring/unsatisfying, and fulfilling his desire for adventure.
 
Again, I must agree with you on those points. One last thing, before dropping the issue: how would you interpret Roderick's statement in Episode 263, when he says " I only came here to deliver his majesty's missive. My work here is already finished...The religious factions of Eath vary/differ although it is the same doctrinal circle. I see no obligation to shed blood for this lot." I was assuming we could consider this split to be something along the lines of a Papal/Roman Church structure on the mainland, versus an Eastern Rite or Eastern Orthodox Equivalent in Roderick's homeland.

The only reason I objected to it being beneficial in his homeland is that I am (perhaps incorrectly) projecting a medieval European worldview; while political marriages within Catholic countries were always acceptable, medieval political marriages very rarely bridged this gap (for one, you'd be excommunicated in many instances) with the Eastern Orthodox Church. I was simply curious as to what sort of faction he belongs to; one in communion with the pontiff (i.e. Eastern Rite), or one that isn't (i.e. Eastern Orthodox), as Farnese' connection to the Church as former leader of the HICKs would make it very difficult to be married to someone in the equivalent of an Eastern Orthodox Church.

I hope that makes sense, I'm writing with a rather painful hangover, so bear with me...
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
bph said:
The only reason I objected to it being beneficial in his homeland is that I am (perhaps incorrectly) projecting a medieval European worldview; while political marriages within Catholic countries were always acceptable, medieval political marriages very rarely bridged this gap (for one, you'd be excommunicated in many instances) with the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Well, maybe you shouldn't project too much real world history on it. Obviously from the dialogue we've seen so far that's not how things are working. The whole point of that arranged marriage would be to give Roderick power in his own country as well as within the Vandimion family. It'd be stupid and meaningless to organize that wedding if at least one of the two were to be disowned because of it (note that the two parties are already disfavored within their respective families).

The variations between their religious orders are probably not incredibly big, even though Roderick didn't feel any obligation to assist them in the battle (a feeling that certainly didn't go against his personal interests).
 
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