god / devil

trapped_soul

"This is it. It's over."
another _cute_ moment in the manga: shortly after their first battle against zoddo, guts and griffith have a conversation. griffith says that maybe zoddo's existence proves that there's a god in this world. guts objects: "wouldn't that be more of a devil than of a god?". griffith looks at him and says:

Gods, Devils - they're all the same!

i don't know, maybe most of you think there's nothing special about that, ... i think it's kinda psycho!

oh well...    :-X
 

maximus

Es ist einsam im Nebel zu wandern...
I think he meant that as in they're both beings that are on a higher level than humans.
yep...well however the question is ,wether the devil is on the same level as god or not!?
In our society that is definetely not the case but for griffith they actually are cause he hasn t that great believe in both of them,does he!?
I think griffith opinion is like the believing of people in the antique greece.
There are many gods...some of them are good and others are bad...
So devils are for him just gods with a negative behaviour.
:-/
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
yep...well however the question is ,wether the devil is on the same level as god or not!?
In our society that is definetely not the case
What? Are you some kind of jesus freak?
 

trapped_soul

"This is it. It's over."
Thats not a fact. He stated opinions to be fact...

In our society that is definetely not the case
in our society most people are christians. means, god and devil are _not_ powers of the same level in _our_ society. it is just like maximus said, so why do you call him "jesus freak"?
that makes absolutely no sense!
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
in our society most people are christians. means, god and devil are _not_ powers of the same level in _our_ society. it is just like maximus said,  so why do you call him "jesus freak"?
that makes absolutely no sense!
First of all, Maximus is from Austria, not America. Second of all, regardless of how many people are christians, the way he phrased the statement implied it was fact. It is, overwhelmingly NOT a fact; its an opinion.

I called him a "Jesus Freak" because his belief that God is higher than "the devil" is a statement of opinion. One typically believed by Christians, aka Jesus Freaks.
 

maximus

Es ist einsam im Nebel zu wandern...
.
I called him a "Jesus Freak" because his belief that God is higher than "the devil" is a statement of opinion. One typically believed by Christians, aka Jesus Freaks.
Well i can t imagine how u could know what i m believing in...
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
Well i can t imagine how u could  know what i m believing  in...
well however the question is ,wether the devil is on the same level as god or not!?
In our society that is definetely not the case
:-X If thats not a belief... I dont know what is. The Jesus Freak comment was in retaliation to you insisting that your belief is "definitely" how things are.

Just to further complicate things, what does god/devil have to do with society aynyway? :D
 
The term Jesus freak is pretty offensive. That might be one reason y ppl r arguing with u.

Just to further complicate things, what does god/devil have to do with society aynyway?

Most people believe in some sort of god or devil, so therefore it affects society. Actually, pretty much all societies r built on a concept of good and evil, aka god and devil.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
The term Jesus freak is pretty offensive.  That might be one reason y ppl r arguing with u.
Too bad its the title of an absurdly popular Christian Song...
Most people believe in some sort of god or devil, so therefore it affects society.  Actually, pretty much all societies r built on a concept of good and evil, aka god and devil.
No, Philosophies are built around the concepts of good and evil. Societies are built around the concepts of sober humanity; of the state and governing.
 
Too bad its the title of an absurdly popular Christian Song...

Never heard of it.  Don't know much Christian music.  Besides, it's different when u call yourself something offensive as opposed to someone else sayin it. Anyway, who cares. I was just pointing something out.

No, Philosophies are built around the concepts of good and evil. Societies are built around the concepts of sober humanity; of the state and governing.

So basically societies never hold any philosophical viewpoints? U're making it sound like government is all there is to society, when it obviously isn't. Society is made up of many different things, including government, a certain standard of morals, culture, etc. 

Also, certain laws (as in enacted by the government), such as the ones against prostitution, gambling, and drugs are there for moral reasons more than anything else.
 
Too bad its the title of an absurdly popular Christian Song...
It doesn't matter. It's all about context. The use of the word "nigga" by black people presents the same situation. A word of prejudice has been converted into some sense of empowerment. I imagine that also explains the title of that song.
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
So basically societies never hold any philosophical viewpoints?  U're making it sound like government is all there is to society, when it obviously isn't.  Society is made up of many different things, including government, a certain standard of morals, culture, etc.
Lets bring this back to reality folks. Maximus said "in our society, that is definitely not the case". By OUR society, I assume hes either talking about Austria, or ours being America.

Admittedly, 420allday has a point in that not ALL societies are completely devoid of God/Devil philosophies. Third World countries are ruled by them.

In America's case, the embedded philosophical implications of our government, that of Plato, Aristotle, and a bit of Christianity unfortunately, has been almost entirely washed away in favor of a seperation between church and state. While you can attempt to argue that Christian morals govern the average American philosophy, its hard to overrule the blatant utilitarianism, and hedonistic impulses that our lives have become saturated in (ever been to Best Buy on Sunday? Noticed the SWARMS of people? That kind of activity is what our society is moralized around). You will note that neither of these two philosophies (utilitarianism, hedonism) have anything at all to do with God / Devil. While one man will say that most Americans attend church every sunday, another man might ask, how many actually let that govern their lives?

In Austria's case, I have no fuqing clue.

Oh, and I think you people took the Jesus Freak thing a little too seriously ... The implications of a word? What is it Politically Correct month here on Sk.net BBS? Nigga Nigga Nigga! Every seen Tokyo Breakfast?

Anyway, instead of a 'Lets-jump-on-Walters-ass fest', please try to justify Maximus's original statement. Which is what all this is about.
 
Oh, and I think you people took the Jesus Freak thing a little too seriously ... The implications of a word? What is it Politically Correct month here on Sk.net BBS? Nigga Nigga Nigga! Every seen Tokyo Breakfast?
Believe it or not some words have real implications, particularly those related to religion and race. Personally, I don't worry about political correctness but when you use a term with negative connotations it is either used as satire (Tokyo Breakfast) or not. I don't practice Christianity or any other religion myself, but I don't find it necessary to pass judgement on what someone else practices through word choice. If you have contentions with a religion than just explain why or leave one word commentaries out of the equation. The scale for what offends people does vary greatly, but I think when you combine the name of someone's prophet with the word "freak", it isn't too considerate. It's your board however, so you say what goes. However, strangely enough I don't think posts would last that long if they referred to Olivier as a frog, puella as a slant, or Paradise Lost as a dego. ::)

Anyway, instead of a 'Lets-jump-on-Walters-ass fest', please try to justify Maximus's original statement. Which is what all this is about.
From his perspective it seems right but his statement really asks for infinite arguing. Solution: ignore it and believe what you will and let others do the same, otherwise expect this type of thread. ;)
 

maximus

Es ist einsam im Nebel zu wandern...
Did i really cause all this??
puh...I threw this one into deep water... :p

Well i guess the word society was too general in connection with religion!
i underestimated the topic i guess and i should have selected the words more carefully!
I mean i know that christians are not the dominating religion on this planet and that there are uncountable many theories or believings bout god ,devil and w.w.j.d;
I don t really stick to one of them,actually i don t really know what i am believing in...

Religion still is and ll stay a very sensitive topic with many different opinions.
Generalizations not possible!
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
However, strangely enough I don't think posts would last that long if they referred to Olivier as a frog, puella as a slant, or Paradise Lost as a dego.  ::)
Actually, as long as they were logically argued Id have no contenion with them. However, logically argued attacks on character are questionable in the first place...

People get really sarcastic about how this board is moderated, but few see the crap that I actually filter out. Many just see the holes that are left when jackasses get booted. Im not saying im not opinionated, however my purpose in hosting this board is to have a stable, lively community. Every now and again it's required to weed out what I deem as posts/users that threaten that purpose. Its not like I dont believe in a democracy. Ask the people of the BBS their opinions on Paradiselost, and Olivier. The majority will answer pretty much the way things are carried out around here: Paradise=banned, Olivier=worshipped.

From his perspective it seems right but his statement really asks for infinite arguing. Solution: ignore it and believe what you will and let others do the same, otherwise expect this type of thread.  ;)
Yeah. Good call. That's a lesson Ive been slowly learning since the beginning of the community here. Im just a stubborn, grumpy old man sometimes (always).

And in the immortal words of Fishbomb: "Its just a board" :-/
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
>>In our society most people are christian
Huh? ^^;

well, i don't see what's huhing you olivier, cos there's about 1/2 people in the world that are christians ( even if that's probably crappy stastistics i read in newspaper, i confirm the sentence of trapped_soul)
oh...and i don't want to join this debat which is like of a succession of darai dai ^^ just helping olivier to clarify :-X
 

Walter

Administrator
Staff member
well, i don't see what's huhing you olivier, cos there's about 1/2 people in the world that are christians ( even if that's probably crappy stastistics i read in newspaper, i confirm the sentence of trapped_soul)
oh...and i don't want to join this debat which is like of a succession of darai dai ^^ just helping olivier to clarify  :-X
Well the statistic is wrong. But youre correct in saying that Christianity is the largest religion. Regardless of the fact that it has handfuls of sects...Christianity ( "Jesus is the son of god, who is humanity's savior") consists of 32.2 percent of the worlds religion. ( http://www.thehollandsentinel.net/stories/012001/rel_42.html )

Its a sad, sad world.
 

Lliugusamui

around the corner
Well the statistic is wrong. But youre correct in saying that Christianity is the largest religion. Regardless of the fact that it has handfuls of sects...Christianity ( "Jesus is the son of god, who is humanity's savior") consists of 32.2 percent of the worlds religion. ( http://www.thehollandsentinel.net/stories/012001/rel_42.html )

Its a sad, sad world.

your statistics are 'betterly' right
i think 'mines' were made with people christened, and there's a lot that are not christians
anyway, informations in newspapers are kinda intox...
 

trapped_soul

"This is it. It's over."
First of all, Maximus is from Austria, not America.
oh really? i'm glad to hear that from you...

I called him a "Jesus Freak" because his belief that God is higher than "the devil" is a statement of opinion.
i see. i guess everything is alright with that term then.

If thats not a belief... I dont know what is. The Jesus Freak comment was in retaliation to you insisting that your belief is "definitely" how things are.
why does he have to be a christian in order to mention that? doesn't seem quite logical to me. he could as well be atheist and mention the same thing.

Too bad its the title of an absurdly popular Christian Song...
i don't know what that has to do with the statement of 420allday. that is quite an unusual reaction.

Philosophies are built around the concepts of good and evil.
that's nonsense!

Oh, and I think you people took the Jesus Freak thing a little too seriously ... The implications of a word?
i totally agree. there's really everything alright in calling someone a jesus freak. i don't understand at all how someone can argue about that. what's the matter with you guys, 420allday and crazy_celt?

however my purpose in hosting this board is to have a stable, lively community.
is that so? then maybe you should think twice before you use terms like "pompous bastard" and "jesus freak" on bbs-members.
 
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