trapped_soul
"This is it. It's over."
another proof for how well-grounded berserk is.
griffith's first words are:
"Do as you like"
.....
griffith's first words are:
"Do as you like"
.....
griff's first words
- Thread starter trapped_soul
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biggerthanzodd
mmm...banana
I'm not sure if this was Miura's intentions, but the sixteenth-century, humanist writer Francois Rabelais once wrote a book about the life a giant aptly named Gargantua. Gargantua was an ambitious giant with an unquenchable thirst for both knowledge and sensual experience. He eventually sets up an Abbey where the only rule was "do what you will." Gargantua's belief was that the gentle people he allowed in his abbey would naturally form order and act honorably simply because they were free to do so.
Also I believe that some modern pagans have adopted the same rule concerning their practices with similar reasoning.
Also I believe that some modern pagans have adopted the same rule concerning their practices with similar reasoning.
trapped_soul
"This is it. It's over."
very cool professor 8)
still i have to say that i meant something else.
isn't "do as you will" the last thing idea tells griffith to do in the so-often-mentioned episode 83?
aren't those words what makes up the essence of idea and godhand?
we all know what happens afterwards.
"i want wings"...
it's kind of ironical griffith is introduced saying those words, isn't it?
Not to mention our dear old satanist Alistair Crowley, who was inspired by the above tale:
'Do what Thou Wilth' shall be your only law.
Hehe, I heard that echo in Griffith... and as always the dangers in that statement got him in the end.
Because he convinced himself that everyone was following him from their own free will, because they were free to depart at any time, he fought against his feelings of responsibility. He felt them (as with the dead squire), but fought against them, and tried to rationalise them. In his mind everyone was responsible for their own fates, for their own wishes. If they failed it was not on his head, all he had done was to provide the opportunity for them. It was up to them to take it. And I believe that is one thing that enabled him to sacrifice the hawks in the end. Because they had followed him willingly, so he felt that they had to be responsible for their own fates. He was not responsible for them. Remember what Casca said when he turned back for Gatts that first time? That usually they abandoned people, that turning back to save Gatts was something unique. Griffith was truly dog eat dog in those days, I think it was the prescence of Gatts that softened him, made him look to something more than his dream and the things he did to justify it.
I think that Griffith was scared of being adored, of being looked at as a saviour. Not outwardly of course, he needed that image to gain his dream after all, but I don't think he could reconcile those emotions inside. So he justified himself with giving everyone just as much responsibility as he himself could shoulder. If they failed it was not on his shoulders. All he could do was to make sure that he didn't fail them. Perhaps that was the reason he fell in love with Gatts. For the first time there was someboby who didn't look at him with adoration, didn't think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. No, someone who fought him, punched him in the face and grew to be his friend. Not equal, but somehow independant... beyond him. Someone he wanted, someone who he could not allow that choice 'do as you like' because he couldn't stand to loose something so precious to him. So he bound him, with ties of loyalty and promises. And in the end, when Gatts finally became just as independant as Griffith himself was, then the lie of his beliefs became obvious. He could not let Gatts go. When he lost he didn't just have to face the sight of Gatts walking away, he also had to face the fact that his own beliefs were hollow, that when push came to shove, when he could not even justify that he needed Gatts for the war, then he still wanted Gatts there. Loyal. Not of his own volitation, but because Griffith wanted it. Needed it. And... what of the others then? If he needed them, though to a much lesser extent, then he was also responsible. He was their leader. He led them, they didn't follow him of their own free will, he led them, inspired them, promised them soemthing... and thus he was responsible.
In the end he tried to deny that, the hawks followed him of their own free will, it was not HIS fault that THEIR choice had led to ruin. He could just continue down the path that had been paved for him, living up to his own statement, doing just what he had said that first time. 'Do as you like'. He could do nothing else. It was what his own life had revolved around. Free will. Independance. His dream. Everyone else... it was their choices, not his...
*ponders* Got carried away, hope I'm making some sense at least... *grins*
'Do what Thou Wilth' shall be your only law.
Hehe, I heard that echo in Griffith... and as always the dangers in that statement got him in the end.
Because he convinced himself that everyone was following him from their own free will, because they were free to depart at any time, he fought against his feelings of responsibility. He felt them (as with the dead squire), but fought against them, and tried to rationalise them. In his mind everyone was responsible for their own fates, for their own wishes. If they failed it was not on his head, all he had done was to provide the opportunity for them. It was up to them to take it. And I believe that is one thing that enabled him to sacrifice the hawks in the end. Because they had followed him willingly, so he felt that they had to be responsible for their own fates. He was not responsible for them. Remember what Casca said when he turned back for Gatts that first time? That usually they abandoned people, that turning back to save Gatts was something unique. Griffith was truly dog eat dog in those days, I think it was the prescence of Gatts that softened him, made him look to something more than his dream and the things he did to justify it.
I think that Griffith was scared of being adored, of being looked at as a saviour. Not outwardly of course, he needed that image to gain his dream after all, but I don't think he could reconcile those emotions inside. So he justified himself with giving everyone just as much responsibility as he himself could shoulder. If they failed it was not on his shoulders. All he could do was to make sure that he didn't fail them. Perhaps that was the reason he fell in love with Gatts. For the first time there was someboby who didn't look at him with adoration, didn't think he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. No, someone who fought him, punched him in the face and grew to be his friend. Not equal, but somehow independant... beyond him. Someone he wanted, someone who he could not allow that choice 'do as you like' because he couldn't stand to loose something so precious to him. So he bound him, with ties of loyalty and promises. And in the end, when Gatts finally became just as independant as Griffith himself was, then the lie of his beliefs became obvious. He could not let Gatts go. When he lost he didn't just have to face the sight of Gatts walking away, he also had to face the fact that his own beliefs were hollow, that when push came to shove, when he could not even justify that he needed Gatts for the war, then he still wanted Gatts there. Loyal. Not of his own volitation, but because Griffith wanted it. Needed it. And... what of the others then? If he needed them, though to a much lesser extent, then he was also responsible. He was their leader. He led them, they didn't follow him of their own free will, he led them, inspired them, promised them soemthing... and thus he was responsible.
In the end he tried to deny that, the hawks followed him of their own free will, it was not HIS fault that THEIR choice had led to ruin. He could just continue down the path that had been paved for him, living up to his own statement, doing just what he had said that first time. 'Do as you like'. He could do nothing else. It was what his own life had revolved around. Free will. Independance. His dream. Everyone else... it was their choices, not his...
*ponders* Got carried away, hope I'm making some sense at least... *grins*
Kenoh-Sama
"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
Yep. That's Griffith POV alright. I always think of him as selfish. Fits with him not taking responsibility. Selfishness and responsibility don't go hand in hand. :(
Funny thing is no one brings up the soldiers POV. Guess they are not important. :( :( :(
trapped_soul
"This is it. It's over."
why don't you do that, then. I'd really like to hear such a story. :)
ahm, yeah, and: respect fishbomb *applauding* 8)
Kenoh-Sama
"What is love? Not that I want some or anythi
Ok.
I don't have the time to do a fan-fic or anything truely indepth but here is a cheapy argumentive tangent for everyones mass consumption.
Like most things however there is another POV. The taka no dan soldier perspective. Berserk is often credited for it's realism. The soldiers are as real as any other character in Berserk. The hawks chose to die for a dream, to fight for a dream, but not just for Griffith's dream but their own. Guts mentioned that a Soldier wanted to leave the hawks after the Tuda campaign because he found a girl (I think Guts said he was a tailor). Sounds like he had a dream to me. I'm sure other soldiers had dreams as well. Did Griffith have the right to ruin their dreams? Accepting death on the battle field is expected, I'm not debating that. However they didn't die on the battle field. They were betrayed by their leader. Sometimes I get the feeling the Griffith's betrayal is being downplayed. Betrayal is a powerfull thing. Biblicly speaking it's very powerful. It's the root of Samson and Delilah and Jesus' death. Now the Hawks were in there own biblical caliber betrayal (They were in Hell after all
). Sad thing is that they had no Idea what was happening. The Panic and screaming, limbs and pools of blood as far as the eye can see. No red shirt ever had it that bad tell you that ;). I would love to add more but lectures are about to take up some of my time. Damn job.