To the end!

smoke · December 31, 2007

I know there's a lot of "how will berserk end?" type threads, but we know so very little of the outcome of developing plotlines that are occurring right now, that to even take a stab at such a thing is pretty difficult. I've been speculating about the end of the series for a while, and concluded that I know too little to make any realistic predictions about plot points.

But what characters do you suppose will be there at the end? Say...the second half of the last volume. We have no idea what they'll be doing, but I think we can make pretty good guesses as to what characters are going to be around when the curtain falls.

Personally, I'm thinking that Serpico, Farnese, and the rest of the party that Guts has picked up since the eclipse probably won't be there. They're late-comers and I suspect their role in the series will be about finished by the time of the "ultimate showdown" if you will. Characters that have been around since the beginning and have been fixtures throughout the series are the only ones I'm guessing will be there, and I'm guessing that all of them will be there.

So my list is something like
- Guts (pretty safe pick)
- Griffith (same)
- Zodd (Been a constant fixture in the series, and there must be some reason)
- Skullknight (same as Zodd)

I might include Casca on that list, but I'm just not sure. It seems like something crazy (such as her death, or some other insanity) would be a great device for heightening emotion at the climax of the series.

So what are your thoughts? Who do you think will be present in those heavily blackened few final pages?

It's fun to speculatize.

Bekul · December 31, 2007

I'd say there's a good chance that Schierke will be there. Every else but her and Casca have somewhere else they could go to, or are self-reliant enough to survive on their own. Rickert, perhaps? Been awhile since we've seen him, and Griffith actually invited him to join his campaign.

Isidro I could see either becoming fed-up with the swordsman lifestyle, achieving something notable and deciding that he's finished wandering, fall in love and settle down in a village, or any one of a dozen other things - not to mention he could just be killed.

Casca, I'd say her fate will ultimatly depend on her sanity.

Serpico would be entirely in character to sacrafice himself for Farnese's sake, and Farnese, well, she's always been one of the wildcards. She's has more sanity than Casca, but that's only because she can talk, heh. Not sure how her 'pupil of magic' relationship with Schierke could work out.

Azan would be there, becuase he really doesn't have anything better to do. That is, if he's not somehow killed in the background without anyone noticing or commenting. >.>

Honestly, I'm hoping that Gut's current group gets seperated in a shipwreck and washed ashore onto a strange island. The party's getting larger fairly quickly, and it'd be good to see how the relationship dynamics would work out with out him being there.

Skorne · December 31, 2007

smoke said:
whole post

Speculatize? hmm, that's new.
And which Volume do you mean by "last volume"? Vol 20-Vol 32, which one are you talking about. And between you and me. I think Griffith removes the brand from Casca, and she goes back to him to be by his side. A second betrayal as a pivotal point. But hey, that's just me. Prolly won't happen but hey we're 'Speculatizing' here right! haha, i like that word. haha.
Rickert and Erica definitely
Isidro and Schierke
Farnese yeah, Serpico, I think he's going to die in a less than dramatic way, but heavily impacting imagery.
And seriously digging the shipwreck thing, a definite turn of events and whole new set of challenges. I LIKE IT!

Bekul said:
Whole post

That right there is what I've been looking forwards to reading on this site. Thank you Bekul!

Smith · December 31, 2007

Skorne said:
And seriously digging the shipwreck thing, a definite turn of events and whole new set of challenges. I LIKE IT!

Guts will be losing all his equipment if there is really a shipwreck...

Hence I doubt that will happen, although I agree its a good twist to the story...

Aazealh · December 31, 2007

smoke said:
Personally, I'm thinking that Serpico, Farnese, and the rest of the party that Guts has picked up since the eclipse probably won't be there. They're late-comers and I suspect their role in the series will be about finished by the time of the "ultimate showdown" if you will. Characters that have been around since the beginning and have been fixtures throughout the series are the only ones I'm guessing will be there, and I'm guessing that all of them will be there.

I think you should revise your idea of the last half of the last volume, as the story might not stop right after the last battle, if you see what I mean. Or at least precise whether you really mean the last part of the story, or just the final battle. And about the late-comers not being there, I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure that at least some of them will be there by the end. On the other hand, a character like Zodd could very well die before that. The only certain pick as far as I can think of is Guts, since he's the main character. It's also likely Puck will be there to me. However, even for Griffith, how can we be sure he'll be there at the very end? Even though his confrontation with Guts is very likely to be the final pivotal part of the story, it might not be where it all ends (that'd be a bit abrupt). That being said, I don't think it's too risky to nominate Griffith either. :void:

smoke said:
I might include Casca on that list, but I'm just not sure. It seems like something crazy (such as her death, or some other insanity) would be a great device for heightening emotion at the climax of the series.

What about Zodd, or even SK (or GRIFFITH?!)? A lot of characters would have a strong impact on the readers if they died. :guts:

Bekul said:
I'd say there's a good chance that Schierke will be there. Every else but her and Casca have somewhere else they could go to, or are self-reliant enough to survive on their own.

That sounds like random guesses. By the time the series end, I don't doubt that Schierke will be able to take care of herself, and on the other hand I doubt that the group would separate itself just like that. Besides, what do Isidro, Serpico, Farnese, the elves or even Azan have to go to? Farnese has a family but she's not exactly in good terms with them, but the others have nothing at all. And other than splitting up directly after Elfhelm, I'm pretty sure they'll be in until the end.

Bekul said:
Rickert, perhaps? Been awhile since we've seen him, and Griffith actually invited him to join his campaign.

But he's a minor character that doesn't really have much to offer. And he's obviously not going to join Griffith's army... I don't see why the fact Griffith invited him to join is an indication that he'll be present at the end of the story. On the other hand, I could see a few pages focusing on his and Erica's peaceful life as some sort of epilogue, showing the life of normal people. That would make more sense IMHO.

Bekul said:
Isidro I could see either becoming fed-up with the swordsman lifestyle, achieving something notable and deciding that he's finished wandering, fall in love and settle down in a village, or any one of a dozen other things - not to mention he could just be killed.

Honestly, that doesn't really sound like his character. Settle down in a village? Are you joking? And every character "could just be killed", saying so isn't making much of a point. I think you're underestimating his importance in the story here (and his attachment to the group), and maybe misunderstanding his motivations and goals in life.

Bekul said:
Farnese, well, she's always been one of the wildcards. She's has more sanity than Casca, but that's only because she can talk, heh.

Not really, no. It's really pretty sad if that's how you'd summarize the character, especially after the big thread that went on recently.

Bekul said:
Not sure how her 'pupil of magic' relationship with Schierke could work out.

It's already working out pretty well.

Bekul said:
Azan would be there, becuase he really doesn't have anything better to do. That is, if he's not somehow killed in the background without anyone noticing or commenting. >.>

Then again, what character has anything better to do? Guess he could get tired of wandering and settle down in a village, right? And for him to die without anyone noticing or commenting? That's just bullshit.

Bekul said:
Honestly, I'm hoping that Guts current group gets seperated in a shipwreck and washed ashore onto a strange island. The party's getting larger fairly quickly, and it'd be good to see how the relationship dynamics would work out with out him being there.

And how would they get out of the island? By building a new ship? Waiting for one to pass by? That sounds pretty unrealistic as well as unlikely. The only way I could see it happen would be if they wrecked on Elfhelm. You're right that it'd be interesting to see the group dynamics without Guts being around, but there will certainly be better occasions for that than a shipwreck.

Skorne said:
And which Volume do you mean by "last volume"? Vol 20-Vol 32, which one are you talking about.

The last volume that will ever be published. The one that will contain the end of the story, that we have yet to know.

Skorne said:
I think Griffith removes the brand from Casca, and she goes back to him to be by his side. A second betrayal as a pivotal point. But hey, that's just me. Prolly won't happen but hey we're 'Speculatizing' here right!

Yeah that's most probably never going to happen, sorry. It's unlikely that Griffith could remove the Brand from anyone, and why would he do that anyway?

This thread sounds like a good idea to me, but guys, you've got to think things through a little more before posting. Speculating doesn't just mean throwing in ideas randomly.

Oburi · December 31, 2007

Even though his confrontation with Guts is very likely to be the final pivotal part of the story, it might not be where it all ends (that'd be a bit abrupt). That being said, I don't think it's too risky to nominate Griffith either.

I was thinking that too. It drives me crazy though, thinking about how it could end. I can't even fathom how it will be. But Guts is the only character I can say for sure who will be their at the climatic ending, maybe skullknight and the Godhand. But who knows, after the final fight it may be Isidro dragging Gut's sword :isidro:

Skorne · January 1, 2008

Aazealh said:
Yeah that's most probably never going to happen, sorry. It's unlikely that Griffith could remove the Brand from anyone, and why would he do that anyway?

Why would he do that, well To fuck with Guts' a little bit more. Devalue his life even more, and have the woman he loves betray him. A second betrayal and just cause. it would just be adding insult to injury and a healthy dose of salt.

Edit: Though, I agree with you, it won't likely happen. I still think it would be something to 'see'

Aazealh · January 1, 2008

Skorne said:
Why would he do that, well To fuck with Guts' a little bit more. Devalue his life even more, and have the woman he loves betray him. A second betrayal and just cause. it would just be adding insult to injury and a healthy dose of salt.

But that's not something Griffith would do in his current state of mind. Though you haven't read that far, you'll discover soon that Griffith is now considering Guts to be of no importance, and trying his best to ignore him. And really, he's got more important things to do anyway. Not to mention that Casca is not very likely to jump in the arms of a man who's now a monster, who killed all her comrades, and of course who raped her in front of her lover while he was himself being mutilated.

jackson_hurley · January 1, 2008

i can definitely see Isidro being there for the final half of the last volume, maybe even some romance with Schierke (which i also see in the end) I can imagine a glorifiyng death of Serpico saving Farnese or vice-versa could be interesting since Serpico always protected Farnese (though it's make me sad to see one of them or both dies) Casca and Guts will be there obviously with Griffith too..

Skorne · January 2, 2008

Aazealh said:
But that's not something Griffith would do in his current state of mind. Though you haven't read that far, you'll discover soon that Griffith is now considering Guts to be of no importance, and trying his best to ignore him. And really, he's got more important things to do anyway. Not to mention that Casca is not very likely to jump in the arms of a man who's now a monster, who killed all her comrades, and of course who raped her in front of her lover while he was himself being mutilated.

Exactly why it won't happen. I only came to that thought after reading a post that mentioned that if Casca's mind was returned at that time, she would most likely go back to Griffith. And that Guts had to make a choice. Prolly a loose translation of some sort. Eh,..the joys of 'speculatizing.'

Aazealh · January 2, 2008

Skorne said:
I only came to that thought after reading a post that mentioned that if Casca's mind was returned at that time, she would most likely go back to Griffith. And that Guts had to make a choice. Prolly a loose translation of some sort.

Hahaha, I don't think the idea that Casca would "most likely go back to Griffith" has anything to do with translation, it's more a case of people making strange assumptions.

jackson_hurley · January 3, 2008

Aazealh said:
Hahaha, I don't think the idea that Casca would "most likely go back to Griffith" has anything to do with translation, it's more a case of people making strange assumptions.

these things seem to happen a lot. heck i probably a few times, hence why i don't post that much just in case! haha :ganishka:

where is my storm damn it!

iilysium · January 19, 2008

I'm thinking Guts, Casca, Isidro and Schierke (Normally main children characters survive, but Kentarou is sure an unpredictable mangaka). Maybe Farnese, Puck, and Serpico. Skull knight and Zodd may die.

pjboom · January 19, 2008

My personal opinion is that the gang will stay some years in elfhelm, improving their combat skills (or until Casca, and Guts are completly healed) an then they will confront Grifith, and it would be great if everyone of the gang could fight a Hawk general alone.
But to this Isidro, Farnese (especially) and Schierke (she's completly defendless using the high class spells) need a super power up.

Aazealh · January 19, 2008

pjboom said:
it would be great if everyone of the gang could fight a Hawk general alone. But to this Isidro, Farnese (especially) and Schierke (she's completly defendless using the high class spells) need a super power up.

Well there are more people in Guts' group than there are generals in Griffith's army, and I don't think anyone could beat them other than Guts himself. It seems unlikely even if they all fighted together, so one on one...

Black_Devil · January 20, 2008

I agree with Aaz here. The whole one on one idea is actually absurd. There's no way possible that any of Guts party(including Schierke, who would probably fare better than anyone else, though not by much) could take on Grunbeld, Zodd, Irvine, Locus, or Rakshas. Aaz, not sure if you remember the convo we had about a Prime Flora possibly wiping out Zodd and those apostles who appeared at her home. I still agree with that, but Schierke & Flora's caliber's are waaaaay different, even in her old age there was still a significant gap(in her death she stopped Apostle Grunbeld with a wall of fire. We know there a characters we've met that can take out the generals(Ganishka could've roasted Zodd with a few more bolts if he wanted too. Skull Knight has repeatedly shown he is atleast on equal terms with Zodd, if not superior.) But out of Guts' immediate power, I'd have to frankly say no to them taking on a general, even if they all did it together.(especially since we only know of Locus/Zodd/Grunbeld's apostle capabilities. leaving 2 of the big 5 unaccounted for)

avidwriter · March 16, 2008

Black_Devil said:
(Ganishka could've roasted Zodd with a few more bolts if he wanted too. Skull Knight has repeatedly shown he is atleast on equal terms with Zodd, if not superior.)

Could he? I don't know. I know Zodd was in a world of hurt but I doubt he'd have died from it. Maybe he'd collapse or fall unconscious but I don't think he'd die I mean he re-attached his own arms. I think nothing short of a full decapitation could kill him. (Maybe) That might fit with why Griffith cut him like he did removing a horn, to show Zodd that he could have killed him right there if he wanted.

Aazealh · March 16, 2008

avidwriter said:
Could he? I don't know. I know Zodd was in a world of hurt but I doubt he'd have died from it. Maybe he'd collapse or fall unconscious but I don't think he'd die I mean he re-attached his own arms.

Well, it's hard to say. I think it's more probable that Zodd would have fled before being too feeble and on the brink of death. Many apostles can re-attach or regrow their limbs, and they'd still die from Ganishka's attacks. Zodd's just incredibly tough.

avidwriter said:
I think nothing short of a full decapitation could kill him. (Maybe) That might fit with why Griffith cut him like he did removing a horn, to show Zodd that he could have killed him right there if he wanted.

The Falcon of Light cut him in half in the dream (not just the horn), so it's likely that if it had happened in the real world he would have died. However we'll have to actually see his death to be sure of what could kill him.

jackson_hurley · March 27, 2008

Aazealh said:
The Falcon of Light cut him in half in the dream (not just the horn), so it's likely that if it had happened in the real world he would have died. However we'll have to actually see his death to be sure of what could kill him.

What I'm curious to see (if we see it) is Zodd and the other major apostles' normal form (like Wyald and the Count after they died, their original form).

Aazealh · March 27, 2008

jackson_hurley said:
What I'm curious to see (if we see it) is Zodd and the other major apostles' normal form (like Wyald and the Count after they died, their original form).

That'd be interesting to see indeed. Maybe we'd be surprised in some cases, like we were for Wyald.

Okin · March 29, 2008

Maybe they're all shriveled prunes from just aging naturally? The Count lived only long enough for his daughter to mature so his relatively young appearance would be justified.

Aazealh · March 29, 2008

Okin said:
Maybe they're all shriveled prunes from just aging naturally?

Well it's not impossible, but I don't think so. It just wouldn't be nearly as interesting. Besides, apostles apparently don't feel any aging (look at Zodd). We could also take a clue from Rosine's servants, who upon reverting didn't look like they'd been at her service for years (especially the kids, who would have grown up otherwise).

einherjar · May 6, 2008

Aazealh said:
That'd be interesting to see indeed. Maybe we'd be surprised in some cases, like we were for Wyald.

I'm not sure if Wyald's true form was so surprising... An old, decrepit man becomes a bloodthristy, rape-mongering apostle; his desire for that is likely what provoked his use of the behelit... Just as Rosine's desire to be an elf did hers.

Back to the original topic of this post, however...

In light of ep. 290, where the Beast :beast:

seems to hint at the demise of Guts' party:
"One day they will be crushed and ripped apart . . . you will suffer their loss once again."

I don't think the Beast is necessarily prophetic, but I think it's significant foreshadowing on Miura's part. He could kill off 70% of the major characters in another eclipse, and we could have 20 more volumes with a largely new cast -- or just a reduced one. Perhaps the behelit Guts carries belongs to someone within his group... even Puck, who seems awfully possessive of it. :puck:

Maybe it's because I don't see the narrative as it stands now (awaiting ep. 296) ending happily-ever-after, but I doubt too many of the current major characters figure in the climax, much less survive it.

Guts will be there -- as it was said, this is his story. I think the biggest question for me regarding Guts is how will he be when the story nears its end. What of his humanity will remain?
Casca -- I'm not putting any bets on this one until we see what happens on Elfhelm, if they ever reach it.
Griffith -- I'm 99.9% sure he'll be there. Unless the story takes some bizarre turn...

Personally, I'm hoping Miura has the ending laid out somehow, if only in his mind... Otherwise it could turn out like the moment you realized they were making up the X-Files mythos season by season...

Scorpio · May 6, 2008

einherjar said:
I don't think the Beast is necessarily prophetic, but I think it's significant foreshadowing on Miura's part. He could kill off 70% of the major characters in another eclipse, and we could have 20 more volumes with a largely new cast -- or just a reduced one.

Well, for starters, eclipses only happen every 200 or so years, during the birth of a Godhand. Unless another reincarnation ceremony takes place (which would be pointless, as the astral world seems to be enjoying ever-increasing power in the mortal world, especially with the current actions of Ganishka) there won't be any other pseudo-eclipses either.

einherjar said:
Maybe it's because I don't see the narrative as it stands now (awaiting ep. 296) ending happily-ever-after, but I doubt too many of the current major characters figure in the climax, much less survive it.

I'm not sure how many will make it through the climax, but I'm certain they will make it to it. The members of Guts' band have a lot of developing to do; Farnese needs to become a witch, Isidro needs to become an expert swordsman, Schierke needs to go through the trials of growing up, Serpico needs to find his own reason to live, and Guts obviously has his own conflicts he needs to resolve with Casca by his side. It wouldn't make any sense to cut these subplots/character developments short.

einherjar said:
Personally, I'm hoping Miura has the ending laid out somehow, if only in his mind... Otherwise it could turn out like the moment you realized they were making up the X-Files mythos season by season...

Being the perfectionist that he is, you can bet that he won't half-ass his greatest work.

Aazealh · May 6, 2008

einherjar said:
I'm not sure if Wyald's true form was so surprising... An old, decrepit man becomes a bloodthristy, rape-mongering apostle

Well that's easy to say in retrospect, but as far as I know no one called it before it was actually revealed. So I'll stick to what I said.

einherjar said:
I don't think the Beast is necessarily prophetic, but I think it's significant foreshadowing on Miura's part. He could kill off 70% of the major characters in another eclipse, and we could have 20 more volumes with a largely new cast -- or just a reduced one. Perhaps the Beherit Guts carries belongs to someone within his group... even Puck, who seems awfully possessive of it.

It's really quite unlikely that there'll be another Occultation ceremony during which Guts' friends would die, like Scorpio said. And wouldn't that be overly redundant anyway? After all the character development we've seen, killing them all off and introducing new characters yet again seems far-fetched to me, especially considering how much more development they can still undergo. It'd just be wasted potential (and, IMHO, wasted time) and I don't think it would achieve much if anything at all. As for the beherit being used by someone in the group, it's a possibility, but personally I doubt it will happen (I'm not including people like Magnifico when I talk about the group, of course, just the core members). There are several old threads about it with some good posts that you can search for, if you're interested. About Puck using it, I take it you were joking? It's hard to be sure with all the stuff we hear around here. :void:

einherjar said:
Maybe it's because I don't see the narrative as it stands now (awaiting ep. 296) ending happily-ever-after, but I doubt too many of the current major characters figure in the climax, much less survive it.

I don't like to quote old interviews as law, but Miura did say many years ago that the ending wouldn't be pessimistic, if that's any indication. Anyway, I think the tone of the story regarding Guts' group has actually been rather happy (putting aside Guts' sorry state, of course) compared to some of the previous periods in the manga. It's more on Griffith's side that things seem ominous for now (though not for Griffith himself).

einherjar said:
Personally, I'm hoping Miura has the ending laid out somehow, if only in his mind... Otherwise it could turn out like the moment you realized they were making up the X-Files mythos season by season...

I don't think there's much to worry about in that regard. Berserk's already been going on for much longer than the X-Files, and if it hasn't disappointed so far then I don't think it will in the future.

Scorpio said:
Well, for starters, eclipses only happen every 200 or so years, during the birth of a Godhand. Unless another reincarnation ceremony takes place

They happen every 216 years. But Incarnation ceremonies only happen once in a thousand years, so there likely won't be another one either.

To the end!

smoke

Guest

Administrator

All praise Grail

Administrator

even the horses are cut in half!

Administrator

even the horses are cut in half!

Administrator

Punos Rey

avidwriter

Guest

Administrator

even the horses are cut in half!

Administrator

The Ultimate Battle Creature

Administrator

The Glorious Dead

Courtesy of Grail's doodling.

Administrator