Would Guts survive the Eclipse with his current equipment?

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DemiAngel

Guest
I would like to think that he could... but maybe it's just fanboyism! :troll:

What do you guys think?
 

Aazealh

Administrator
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DemiAngel said:
I would like to think that he could... but maybe it's just fanboyism! :troll:

What do you guys think?

Well, he survived without any equipment other than his dagger, so I guess he would also survive with a better equipment and more experience fighting apostles. Of course, I'm going to assume you mean surviving without being saved by the Skull Knight. Then it becomes very debatable. And it also depends on what you mean by "current equipment". As we've seen during the battle at Flora's mansion, Guts is vulnerable to a swarm of lesser apostles even when wearing the Berserk's armor. He would certainly fare better against them than he did, but I don't think he'd be able to fight them all off indefinitely. Then there's the members of the God Hand, against whom he's helpless. I could go on and give different possible scenarios, but the problem with what you're asking is that it'd change the context and probably the way all the characters present would react as well, so it's not too different from writing fan fiction.
 
Um, well not really. As much as I know Gut's owns, its pretty unlikely. The eclipse is not something anyone is really meant to live through. You are trapped in a...I suppose we'll call it a "dimension"(i know i'll get crap for using this term) full of endless apostles wanting to kill you. Yes Guts survived the impossible last time, but that was in large part due to him being dragged out by SK after he broke through. It was an unexpected twist of fate. Without any way to escape the eclipse like earlier with SK, being trapped there indefinetely and surviving is um..setting the bar high.
 

Aazealh

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Shadow67733 said:
Without any way to escape the eclipse like earlier with SK, being trapped there indefinetely and surviving is um..setting the bar high.

He wouldn't be trapped in there indefinitely. The "dimension" the Occultation ceremony takes place in only lasts for the duration of the ceremony, then the members of the God Hand return to their den and everything else is sent back to the corporeal world.
 
Aazealh said:
As we've seen during the battle at Flora's mansion, Guts is vulnerable to a swarm of lesser apostles even when wearing the Berserk's armor.

Yeah but wasn't he severely wounded at the time before he used the armor? Maybe he would have had an easier time with them if he had been fully recuperated along with using the armor.


Aazealh said:
He wouldn't be trapped in there indefinitely. The "dimension" the Occultation ceremony takes place in only lasts for the duration of the ceremony, then the members of the God Hand return to their den and everything else is sent back to the corporeal world.

If that is the case I think maybe he could stand a chance at defending himself/killing apostles until the ceremony ended, assuming he was at full strength and using the Berserker armor to its fullest.
 

Aazealh

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Donald Shimoda said:
Yeah but wasn't he severely wounded at the time before he used the armor? Maybe he would have had an easier time with them if he had been fully recuperated along with using the armor.

He was wounded, but that didn't seem to impair him when wearing the armor at the time.

Donald Shimoda said:
If that is the case I think maybe he could stand a chance at defending himself/killing apostles until the ceremony ended, assuming he was at full strength and using the Berserker armor to its fullest.

He would have still faced at least Femto, and after the end of the ceremony he'd still be surrounded by apostles. And don't forget that Guts was caught during the Eclipse because he tried to save Casca, so you have to take her into account as well.
 
Aazealh said:
He was wounded, but that didn't seem to impair him when wearing the armor at the time.

Yeah but wouldn't he be able to fight better if he didn't have those wounds to begin with? Eventually even if he wasn't impaired he would die if he continued to fight nonstop. Isn't he closer to that point if he starts out wounded vs not?

Aazealh said:
He would have still faced at least Femto, and after the end of the ceremony he'd still be surrounded by apostles. And don't forget that Guts was caught during the Eclipse because he tried to save Casca, so you have to take her into account as well.

Thats true, I think that maybe if he didn't have to worry about protecting Casca or fighting Femto, he maybe could survive long enough to eventually run away when the ceremony ended, but still it'd be a very dangerous position for him to be in.
 
Donald Shimoda said:
Yeah but wouldn't he be able to fight better if he didn't have those wounds to begin with? Eventually even if he wasn't impaired he would die if he continued to fight nonstop. Isn't he closer to that point if he starts out wounded vs not?

Not necessarily. The armour could physically keep you going until you're done with the fight. Who's to say that the armour can't just keep you going with a steady flow of od that is cut off when you're done killing?
 

Aazealh

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Donald Shimoda said:
Yeah but wouldn't he be able to fight better if he didn't have those wounds to begin with? Eventually even if he wasn't impaired he would die if he continued to fight nonstop. Isn't he closer to that point if he starts out wounded vs not?

You're not addressing my point, which was that Guts can't fight off dozens of apostles all at once without getting wounded, even when wearing the armor.

Nonsapient said:
Who's to say that the armour can't just keep you going with a steady flow of od that is cut off when you're done killing?

It doesn't stop when you're done killing, that's why it's dangerous to use (without even getting into the side effects). As for keeping the wearer going, it masks his pain and fear, but he can still die while fighting.
 

Billybob

Succumb to the will of the beast
I think that without Skull Knight, no matter what equipment Guts has he would die. He had no idea how to get out of the ceremony, and if it wasn't for Skull Knight, he would've had to keep fighting until the ceremony ended. Granted, with the armor he would no longer care about anyone else's lives, but then fighting with the armor drains his own life over time, and he no longer thinks of any sort of self-preservation. He just hacks away at everything. He'd probably just get overwhelmed and torn apart after a while.
 

Aazealh

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Billybob said:
if it wasn't for Skull Knight, he would've had to keep fighting until the ceremony ended.

Guts had been immobilized and was powerless (at the apostles' mercy) long before SK barged in.

Billybob said:
fighting with the armor drains his own life over time

No, I don't think it's correct to say so. Wearing the armor (not just fighting but wearing it in general) has side effects, but it doesn't drain the user's life. I don't know where you got this idea.
 

Billybob

Succumb to the will of the beast
Aazealh said:
Guts had been immobilized and was powerless (at the apostles' mercy) long before SK barged in.

No, I don't think it's correct to say so. Wearing the armor (not just fighting but wearing it in general) has side effects, but it doesn't drain the user's life. I don't know where you got this idea.

I'm sorry, I probably should have worded myself better. What I was saying was based upon if Guts had the armor on at the eclipse. And I shouldn't have used the word life, more like blood. If he gets injured while fighting with the armor active, the armor digs into him to keep the body intact and fighting, and when it digs in his blood seeps out. Most specifically shown in episode 228, volume 27. I'm no expert and I miss a lot of small details, so forgive me if I've left something out, but that's basically what I was referring to.
 
Aazealh said:
You're not addressing my point, which was that Guts can't fight off dozens of apostles all at once without getting wounded, even when wearing the armor.

Let's just reinforce Aaz' point with an example... Berserker Guts got injured trying to fend off the Makaras in volume 31.

Considering that apostles are more intelligent they are presumably tougher than Makara, and Guts can't kill many of them without getting seriously injured.
 
Since its my first post I would like to great everyone and also compliment this forum.

As for the topic: I would rather rephrase that question into whether guts could still remain human or when going ballistic in the eclipse would result in him being transformed into something else. The origins of skull knight would answer that question since he clearly was an human owner of the berserk armour earlier. I for once think he would "survive", yet not come out as a human. Thats my opinion. Makara wounding Guts means nothing, since by all means are not all of the apostles as though or durable as Grunbeld or Zodd and therefore comparable to the makara. Personally i really enjoyed the fight between Grunbeld and Guts (re-read it several times), where you can actually see that when wearing Berserk armour he ripped threw several of the lesser apostles fairly easy. :beast:
 

Aazealh

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Roidrage said:
Since its my first post I would like to great everyone and also compliment this forum.

Greetings, and welcome to SK.net.

Roidrage said:
As for the topic: I would rather rephrase that question into whether guts could still remain human or when going ballistic in the eclipse would result in him being transformed into something else. The origins of skull knight would answer that question since he clearly was an human owner of the berserk armour earlier. I for once think he would "survive", yet not come out as a human.

But it isn't sure at all that SK was transformed into something else by the Berserk's armor. The most we know about it comes from Schierke and simply states that the previous owner died wearing it (and it's not first-hand knowledge, so not fully reliable).

Roidrage said:
Makara wounding Guts means nothing, since by all means are not all of the apostles as though or durable as Grunbeld or Zodd and therefore comparable to the makara.

What? Why wouldn't it mean anything, according to you?

Roidrage said:
Personally i really enjoyed the fight between Grunbeld and Guts (re-read it several times), where you can actually see that when wearing Berserk armour he ripped threw several of the lesser apostles fairly easy.

And got pretty badly wounded in the process. I'm not sure what your point is here, aside from repeating previously stated facts.
 

Daijyashin

Berserk is Divine and Human
Billybob said:
I think that without Skull Knight, no matter what equipment Guts has he would die.

Yes, I think it too.

and as Aaz said, even if, in the best scenario, Guts would have killed every apostle with the Berserker Armor(and without the Slan's spiritual wound) once he try to attack Femto or god hand, he would just die.
 
Daijyashin said:
once he try to attack Femto or god hand, he would just die.

I doubt that he will die just by attacking GH, precisely because he can't even reach any of the GH and they ain't going to bother about him either... (Which is why Guts survive their encounter back in volume 3)
 

Aazealh

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Smith said:
I doubt that he will die just by attacking GH, precisely because he can't even reach any of the GH and they ain't going to bother about him either... (Which is why Guts survive their encounter back in volume 3)

Things were different during the Eclipse than they were in volume 3.
 
A

avidwriter

Guest
Aazealh said:
Things were different during the Eclipse than they were in volume 3.

Yes very much so. I'm still unsure how he'd kill Godhand if he even will at all. It'll probably just end with Griffith but even that would take more then Guts currently has at the moment. However I assume that is why he's at sea and no where near Griffith right now.
 

Aazealh

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avidwriter said:
However I assume that is why he's at sea and no where near Griffith right now.

Well, not really. He's going to Elfhelm because of Casca, remember?
 
A

avidwriter

Guest
Aazealh said:
Well, not really. He's going to Elfhelm because of Casca, remember?

Yea that’s what I was probably trying to get at. I was out of it when I posted that and I couldn't get my thoughts in a line. I meant to say, he can't beat Griffith at the moment so having him going to Elhelm because of Casca serves another purpose if he also get some "improvement" while there. This is of course a total theory but it makes some sense seeing where and what Griffith is doing right now and what it will mean in the future.

However much of Berserk as I probably would have theorized if I was reading it earlier on then I did ( I started reading only after I saw the anime and by then I read up to the armor) I'd probably have gotten wrong. Miura is a good storyteller and so far he's managed to avoid many of the common things you see. Or maybe I'm rambling.
 

Aazealh

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avidwriter said:
Yea that’s what I was probably trying to get at.

Probably? I don't think so. While we believe (more than we know) that Guts can't possibly beat Griffith at this point, he himself doesn't. He tried to attack him and Zodd intervened, then Griffith went away. Guts isn't going to Elfhelm to train and become stronger, he's going there for Casca. Without her he'd have gone after Griffith. Even in Vritannis as they were about to board the ship, he was still tempted to go after him.
 
Aazealh said:
Guts isn't going to Elfhelm to train and become stronger, he's going there for Casca.

But what I do believe is that he will still get stronger after staying in Elfhelm... And he wont be staying there forever either, Got to make a comeback with much more powerful skills
 

Aazealh

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Smith said:
But what I do believe is that he will still get stronger after staying in Elfhelm... And he wont be staying there forever either, Got to make a comeback with much more powerful skills

That's beside the point.
 

Draulix

FOOOD!!
If you ask me, no doubt his armor would help him survive longer during an eclipse. As to doing damage if any to the god hands, I think it is possible because we did get a hint as to his Dragon Slayer is now infused with some mysterious powers from slaying so many apostles thus far. Think back when the little witch was handing out magical weapons and armors to Serpico and the rest. When she tried to give him an axe, he replied he didn't need any and he only needed his sword which had some black mist flowing along side it. That maybe the key to striking and injuring god hands if the occasion ever comes?
 
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