Author Topic: Miura, the Cabbalist?  (Read 1708 times)

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Offline Bloody Needle

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Miura, the Cabbalist?
« on: August 16, 2003, 08:06:36 AM »
Heh. Bear with me for a sec. It relates to the coincidentally-resurfaced old thread about the structure of the berserk universe.

So I noticed something funny the other day which I hadn't picked up on in prior readings: that the hawk-pole caudesseus symbol used by the Church and the "Rakuin" were the same shape...the brand has the caudesseus pattern of a center line "wrapped" by two helically-twisting ones, which in two-D comes out as a two (or more) diamond shapes joined at vertices in a line. And the little three-headed prong  that mounts the center line is the hawk.

Seriously folks, if someone can post the images of the religious symbol and the brand side-by-side, you'd see what I mean.

Which led me to wonder if the brand was a stylized version of any IRL occult pictograms...and honestly I think the answer is that it is a modified version of the Tree of Life figure used in the Jewish/Christian mysticism.

If you haven't heard of this go look here for an explanation (it's what I did; I'm no great shakes at the Western theological wangdangdoodle) --

http://www.witchesrealm.com/magic/qb1.html

Furthermore, the Tree of Life is divided up into three domains with two discreet boundaries, which are worth mentioning because they fit so well with Griffith's Venn-overlap model of the Berserk universe. The supernal triad equates to what is described as the "astral world." It is seperated by from the "triad of the formative world" by the Abyss, and that in turn is seperated by the Veil from the remaining four lowest sepiroth. In other words, three overlapping circles on a line.

The way I see it, the supernal triad of Kether, Binah, and Chokmah are the end point of the three lines forming the crown - or iconic hawk -  at the top of the Brand.

The formative world triad is composed of Tiphareth - which is the point where the three lines of the top of brand intersect - along with Geburah and Chesed, which are the "heads" of the caudesseus.

Finally the remaining four Sephira - Yesod, Netzrach, and Hod, and Malkuth - formed the diamond shaped base.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to claim that Miura is using Cabbalic ideas about how the ten individual Sephira and the paths between them constitute a mystical understanding of human experience of life, but just maybe he's using the model of the Ten Sephiroth and the Tree of Life as a kick-start point for his own metaphysics in the plot. Supporting evidence would be the recent kicking-about that the word "qlippoth" has received in the Troll plotline.

Ozmo

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Re:Miura, the Cabbalist?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2003, 10:21:05 AM »
I'm not exactly sure if Miura got his ideas for "Miura-world" from the Kabbalah, but they're definetly related. The entire "thoughts become incarnate somewhere and can affect the material world" thing that has AFAIK come from the big K is quite common amongst Fantasy worlds. Like in Planescape for example, they nicely explain why gods, demons, angels etc exist.

Offline SexyCharlotte

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Miura and Religion/Occult
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2003, 08:05:54 AM »
Many occult symbols share similiarities. The whole theme of nature's elements are represented in the Tarot deck, are the basic elements and themes of magic.

What I like is the way Miura does take a lot of religious historical fact from the real world and shapes it creatively in the Berserk world. When Schierke talks about the 'Vatican' and the pagan world disappearing or at least going underground because of the spread of that certain religion, it totally follows real-life history, as with the burning of heretics and women as witches at the stake.

In the scene where Schierke explains about the healing woman, there are drawings Miura did of large rocks and stone tablets which resemble Stonehenge and other pagan worshipping sites that we are so familiar with in this world. The practice of wicca ( the worship of nature and the use of magic) was completely condemned. Before monotheism, polytheism ruled the world with gods, goddesses, free worship of these deities, and women also had a higher stature in society than they did after the events that led to the belief in just one superior God.

But magic never died... ;) it just hides.

LG

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Offline Grifth

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Re:Miura, the Cabbalist?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2003, 12:42:10 PM »
good readin  it is possible for miura to take ideas from other religions to come up whit a religion for the berserk world altough the church's in berserk seem primarily catholic the idea of god is diferent  but i do see you point in comparing most of the simbols they do somewhat match very interesting theory im reading into the site rigth now  
« Last Edit: August 17, 2003, 10:39:58 PM by Grifth »

Offline Bloody Needle

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Re:Miura, the Cabbalist?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2003, 03:10:05 PM »
Lady Griffith -

A lot of modern "witch religions" that trace their beliefs back to preChristian Europe don't realize how much their symbolism and ritual proclivities are tied to alchemy, Hermeticism, and Christian "white magic" -- which in turn were pieced together from aspects of Cabbalism, in addition to; Gnostic, Manichean, and Zoroastrian thought from Iran and European heretic communities such as the Arians and the Bogomil (Albegensians); Sufi and other Islamic influences imported during the Crusades; esoteric and scientific texts migrating from the Arab world, India, and China, as well as the natural philosophy of Hellenic and Roman thinkers.

Indeed, the hardest thing to prove is their relationship of modern witchcraft(s) to the practices of the hundreds of Celtic, Germanic, and Slavic tribes occupying Europe prior to Roman occupation: the textual sources are very few, and must be taken with a grain of salt, since they reflect the cultural imperialism of their Roman authors. Even archaeological evidence of religious practices is scarce, since so often towns are rebuilt on the foundations of old ones, and temples are dismantled to make churches on the same sites.

One really has to look between the lines of modern retellings of regional folklores and traditions to get a brief glimpse of the old gods, their followers, and their rituals. Most Christian saints  are remakings of different regional gods, spirits, and holy people, to the point that one really has to extrapolate to get a sense of what might have been.

Depressingly, one of the great obstacles to accurate information about preChristian Europe is the desires of modern folk to find their ideals reflected in the ancestry: indeed, the very idea of the Keltoi as a unified people is a modern anachronism, as is the latter-day projection of Insular (Irish, Welsh, British) Celtic aesthetics and ideas onto their myriad, variegated continental kin. In the past two centuries, many groups, such as the Irish and the Gauls, have received cultural white-washings relative to nationalist-identity agendas. Conversely, aspects of those ancient cultures unpalatable to the modern morality...such as the documentation of polygamy, socially mandated violence, and human sacrifice amongst early Celtic, Germanic, and Slavic peoples...have been ignored.

Offline Bloody Needle

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Re:Miura, the Cabbalist?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2003, 03:17:11 PM »
P.S.

European standing stones such as Stonehenge and the menhir fields of France are from the later Paleolithic Era, which means they're at least 5 to 20 ten thousand years older than the cultures that we think of as "preChristian pagan Europe." Currently there's no way of proving that there was cultural continuity  over that length of time, so they could be markers of a wholely different way of thinking and worshipping.