Author Topic: Episode 241  (Read 38343 times)

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Italian_demon

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #150 on: June 04, 2004, 01:32:04 PM »
Well
i`m sorry for my English... But speaking about "Soul" i meant the OD, i still can`t believe that the OD of Skul Knigh is a Skull that`s it, time will show.
Also you don`t know if the Armur keeps the shape of the last user, when it`s not in contact anymore with him!
Also the sentence words "to stay as a human" doesn`t necessary mean to change to a higher being as Skully, it could mean for example to die, as it`s clear that if Guts can`t control himself enough he might lose too much blood and say bye bye to the human world.....
If everything will be as abviouos as you say it would be a little disappointing....

Offline Smith

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #151 on: June 04, 2004, 02:47:38 PM »
Wow... Hot debate going on here... maybe i like to join as well


Have you read Berserk at all?! Guts not AS STRONG AS Skullknight!!?



You can say i didnt read Berserk at all... But Guts is no where near SK... Even in his beast form he couldnt slay those apostle as fast as SK


what he say may not be right, but then it does make sense, so i dont think he deserve a flaming like that  :)
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Sparnage

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #152 on: June 04, 2004, 03:03:56 PM »
Yeah Guts isn't as strong as Skullknight, no chance.

Offline Smith

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #153 on: June 04, 2004, 03:07:03 PM »
Yeah Guts isn't as strong as Skullknight, no chance.


Couldnt really say no chance, if he is in beast form...
It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Sparnage

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #154 on: June 04, 2004, 03:14:17 PM »
Maybe, but I would still put my bet on Skull knight...for now.

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #155 on: June 04, 2004, 03:15:10 PM »
Hell, calm down already...
What do you want from me? I say it again, I still don't believe that this would be all. I did not say that the armor has no effect on becoming like Skully, I just believe that there is more than that. That's alsmost the same fucking thing you want to press in my head so eagerly. Let me just have my opinion, ok?
As Sparnage said, dying in that armor is probably not enough to become like Skully. It could be enough, and it could not be enough, that's all I want to say.

Boo hoo, you shouldn't want that opinion, it's terminal, and it's my job to make sure it's not malignant. It's like you had cancer and I've given you the cure. See, in that last sentence you saw the light.

Now you can go on an try to advice me on that, I don't care, for me Miura still didn't explain everything. The armor consumes his owner, his senses, his od and so on... and then? The owner dies and *pow* *flashylightsallovertheplace*...*theplacesuddenlydarkens* *fog'sallovertheplacenow* and then *tadaa* The owner steps out of the mist as a 'thing' like Skully (is that enough imagination?)...Yeah, and that's it? Nah, I don't think so...

...

Well, I hadn't counted on your imagination being totally worthless shit, that didn't even read between the lines or fill in the blanks but basically just restated the facts sarcastically as if it's an unreasonable idea. But, I guess I should have known that since it's what got us here in the first place. Sarcastic or not, the problem is still on your end, or in it I should say. Hence my original question, does Miura really have to write every detail on on his dick, get it notorized, and then stick it up your ass?

Read Mages post, he spells it out pretty clearly. Here's a quickie paraphrase if we're lazy.

Skully: "If you continue to wear that armor you will not be human."

Hmmmm, Skully wore the armor too, gee golly, Huck... do ya think he's speakin' from personal experience or somethin'!? :o

-Griffith

P.S. Sparn and Smith, I think the point is that if Guts went down the same path as Skully, he'd likely end up even more powerful on the other side.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2004, 03:18:09 PM by Griffith »

Offline Woland

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #156 on: June 04, 2004, 03:31:17 PM »
Hence my original question, does Miura really have to write every detail on on his dick, get it notorized, and then stick it up your ass?

I hope not, the notary stamp imprint might be painful enough to cause Miura to have to take an extended break.
*Place deeply meaningful thoughts here*
Wait, on second thought, don't, It might ruin my reputation.

Offline OnyxMagnolia

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #157 on: June 04, 2004, 04:09:20 PM »
Skully: "If you continue to wear that armor you will not be human."

Hmmmm, Skully wore the armor too, gee golly, Huck... do ya think he's speakin' from personal experience or somethin'!? :o

-Griffith

P.S. Sparn and Smith, I think the point is that if Guts went down the same path as Skully, he'd likely end up even more powerful on the other side.

Yeah, exactly. Guts is still human and mortal...so there are obvious limitations to his strength and fighting ability. Skully is NOT human anymore and he is immortal from what I know...he's got amazing powers but he is not human nor is he alive the same way Guts is. Guts = human and mortal, Skully= not human and immortal

My point is that you can't compare their powers because we don't really know the extent of Skully's powers when he was alive and human like Guts is now. When and if Guts turns into some being like Skully as a result of the armor, he might be ten times stronger and completely unstoppable.  8)

And really, yeah, how many times do people have to point out that Skully himself told Guts about the dangers of the armor? ...

Also the sentence words "to stay as a human" doesn`t necessary mean to change to a higher being as Skully, it could mean for example to die, as it`s clear that if Guts can`t control himself enough he might lose too much blood and say bye bye to the human world.....
If everything will be as abviouos as you say it would be a little disappointing....

Skully says "if you continue to wear the armor, you will not be human"... he doesn't say "if you continue to wear the armor, you will die"
So I think it's pretty obvious that the armor had a lot to do with what Skully is today. It may have killed him in the way that he is not human anymore, but it probably gave him the powers he has today. That armor will probably have the same effect on Guts if he continues to wear it as Skully said.
You think something like Guts just plain dying at this point wouldn't be disappointing?
I sure as hell do, and I don't think that will happen.

Just trying to contribute to the discussion  ;D

Offline *Gyom*

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #158 on: June 04, 2004, 04:23:42 PM »
Well, I don't really like to say this... but on this very 'issue', I don't see your points guys. If you think it's too 'obvious' or anything else, maybe you should seek out right through your ring whether there's something or not (just to add my 'sauce' to Griffith's  8) )

You better begin checking on 242, it'd be less harm ^^
Guil

Offline akikaze

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #159 on: June 04, 2004, 07:37:01 PM »
Well, I hadn't counted on your imagination being totally worthless shit, that didn't even read between the lines or fill in the blanks but basically just restated the facts sarcastically as if it's an unreasonable idea.
Sarcastic? Well that's one of my characteristics. I didn't expect you to can't cope with that...but ok, I'll try to be less sarcastic. If I can resist though...

Hence my original question, does Miura really have to write every detail on on his dick, get it notorized, and then stick it up your ass?
You like that phrase do you? Well, I admit that everything known up to now leads to the conclusion that the armor initiated Skully's transformation. What I want to know is how...merely dying in it wouln't be enough, since the armor is concuming the od of it's owner, it has to be released/formed/brought into another armor or something... Or another of Miuras ideas leads to the transformation, whatever. That leads me to the conclusion that it can't be the armor alone, that made Skully what he is now. Not yet...
If there would be a hint like "The armor will manifest your od outside of your body when you die in it." or something less obvious leading to the same conclusion, then there is no other choice in taking it as a fact. But things like these weren't mentioned yet.

Skully: "If you continue to wear that armor you will not be human."
Not being human could be a present fact already. Everytime he goes Berserk in that Armor could also be referred to as not being human anymore...So fuck that shit, to use your words.
So once again.
Did Skully wear that armor?
- Sure he did.
Did he suffer the same side effects Guts is suffering now?
- How would he know them so good then? So, yes he did.
Did he die in it?
- Most likely. The armor still has the shape it had, when he had been in Berserk mode. (Assuming the Skull is his "Beast")
But.
Was the armor the only thing that led to his transformation?
- Maybe yes, maybe no. I tend to no. (That's my point, that's the little thing everyone seems to get mad about... ::) )
None of the arguments postet convinced me of answering the last question with "yes" for certain. You can still appeal to my ability to read between lines and whatnot (or insult me again), I don't care, do as you wish.

Hmmmm, Skully wore the armor too, gee golly, Huck... do ya think he's speakin' from personal experience or somethin'!? :o
Who's sarcastic now? ;)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2004, 07:52:17 PM by akikaze »

Offline DemonX

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #160 on: June 04, 2004, 08:29:54 PM »
Wow, nice topic... even though i can't really see a topic here, all i see is flame.

Heres a note to people whining "Dont flame me im only expressing my opinion  :'(" (akikaze), If you dont wanna be flamed, then dont express your opinion. Its sad, weak, and totally over rated. What you need is to sit in your room, lay on your bed, and use your imagination. And make assumtions on the obvious too.
I gave you fair warning! Now I am going to make a fool of myself in front of everybody! >:( Feel the ANGST! >:(

Offline Sparnage

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #161 on: June 04, 2004, 09:17:04 PM »
Heres a note to people whining "Dont flame me im only expressing my opinion  :'(" (akikaze), If you dont wanna be flamed, then dont express your opinion. Its sad, weak, and totally over rated. What you need is to sit in your room, lay on your bed, and use your imagination. And make assumtions on the obvious too.

I don't think so, he as well as Griffith have some interesting points so i'm enjoying this.

Demon, if you are going to bag someone you should at least have the decency to say why with depth rather then just taunting the underdog with shallow insults to his argument, it's mean.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2004, 09:24:13 PM by Sparnage »

Offline DemonX

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #162 on: June 04, 2004, 09:22:48 PM »
I don't think so, he as well as Griffith have some interesting points so i'm enjoying this.

Demon, if you are going to bag someone you should at least have the decency to say why with depth rather then just using shallow insults to his argument.



Now what the hell do you mean saying that.

"If you dont wanna be flamed, then dont express your opinion."

Now how do I put depth in it...
I gave you fair warning! Now I am going to make a fool of myself in front of everybody! >:( Feel the ANGST! >:(

Offline Sparnage

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #163 on: June 04, 2004, 09:30:42 PM »
Look, it's easy to say his argument is sad, weak and over rated while telling him to rethink it but that doesn't mean much.

That doesn't say anything but a flame, you could at least do what Griffith does and contradict his argument with reasons and facts before bringing out the insults.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2004, 09:31:42 PM by Sparnage »

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #164 on: June 04, 2004, 10:33:50 PM »
Sarcastic? Well that's one of my characteristics. I didn't expect you to can't cope with that...but ok, I'll try to be less sarcastic. If I can resist though...

Please do for your own sake, sarcasim isn't a badass characteristic when it plays into your detracter's hands; I was making fun of you, it wasn't that me couldn't can't not cope with it. =)

Anyway, you seem to have opened up to more possibilities concerning the armor. My work here is finished for now.

ZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPOP

-Griffith

Offline roberto999

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #165 on: June 04, 2004, 11:03:46 PM »
Two points are sure:
1) the previous owner died in the armor because of blood loss and the breakage of every bone in his body
see translation of chapter 227 pag. 16
http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?board=19;action=display;threadid=2088;start=25

There is also no doubt the previous owner was Skully (he , himself, admits it)

see again the translation of cap 237, pag. 13
http://www.skullknight.net/yabbse/index.php?board=21;action=display;threadid=2905

2) Now Skully wears another armor

we also know , from what Flora told that some spirits of just deceased,sometimes, remain in the interstice, unable to go on.The permanence in the interstice, again according to Flora gives a great spiritual strenght.
At this point we can assume that Skully after his death, and a more or less long permanence in the interstice was able to return, someway, among the living. Maybe someone  did prepare the armor that now he wears just to help his return. This would explain almost eveything except for the horse
« Last Edit: June 04, 2004, 11:17:33 PM by roberto999 »
Hey I am reborn

Offline akikaze

Re:Episode 241
« Reply #166 on: June 05, 2004, 09:06:09 AM »
Anyway, you seem to have opened up to more possibilities concerning the armor. My work here is finished for now.
All right let's stop this then. What Roberto pointet out in his post, the thing that Flora said, is my "missing link" anyway. I somehow...err, forgot, that little fact about a spirit strong enough being able to prevent himself from vanishing an stuff...well, eh, sorry for taking your time. ::)

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #167 on: June 05, 2004, 10:27:21 AM »
2) Now Skully wears another armor

we also know , from what Flora told that some spirits of just deceased,sometimes, remain in the interstice, unable to go on.The permanence in the interstice, again according to Flora gives a great spiritual strenght.
At this point we can assume that Skully after his death, and a more or less long permanence in the interstice was able to return, someway, among the living. Maybe someone  did prepare the armor that now he wears just to help his return. This would explain almost eveything except for the horse


I am not sure I may 100 % surely agree with this. I still retain the possibility that the armour skully is wearing makes part of the same berserk armour that he died inside. Although he, himself told Schierke that he used "Guts'" armour (and don't reply back to disagree using this point) I am not sure I can see this, as a 100% literal confirmation of his words.


Skully expresses himself about actuality in a kind strange way, considering the usual standards of normal people in BERSERK.
For example, remember what Flora said about Skully at the dinner table:
"...from an old friend of the spirit world. He has told me that marked humans, guided by small wings would pay visit to this forest..."
He could speak like your elder chinese wiseman or jedai guru Obiwan Kenobi.
Remember that Obiwan told Luke that his father was dead, but this didn't mean that it was literally like that.
Ohh,  I' ve spoken so long  :-\
« Last Edit: June 05, 2004, 10:33:15 AM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline roberto999

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #168 on: June 05, 2004, 05:40:44 PM »
I am not sure I may 100 % surely agree with this. I still retain the possibility that the armour skully is wearing makes part of the same berserk armour that he died inside.
YOU ARE RIGHT!!!
Like in that Venom -Carnage thing :P :P :P :P :P

Coming soon:The battle of the armors

Hey I am reborn

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #169 on: June 05, 2004, 10:17:41 PM »
How about this, Skully wore the armor, it comsumed him and his Od, he "died" and became what he is now (eith perhaps some other outside contributing factors, I'll keep this open). After this, Flora held the armor for safekeeping. Guts now wears it. It's now consuming him, if he keeps wearing it, it will consume him completly, his mortal self will die, and the armor will turn him into something like Skully. For Guts, this may be the Beast,

The armor does affect the waerers Od, it changes it so they become their inner demon. We know from Skully that there are side-effects, so I'd imagine those effects stem from the fact that wearing the armor for extended periods starts to change you permanantly, whether or not you stop wearing the armor after. This happened to Skully. Now it's happening to Guts?

Can everyone agree this is reasonable or must we believe there are multiple armors and Skully just wears a death costume and what became of him is in no way related to Guts' situation now. You know... because that's good writing. *BARF*

-Griffith

P.S. I tried to be only positive, maybe next time. =)

Offline xechnao

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #170 on: June 06, 2004, 12:19:56 AM »
How about this, Skully wore the armor, it comsumed him and his Od, he "died" and became what he is now (eith perhaps some other outside contributing factors, I'll keep this open). After this, Flora held the armor for safekeeping. Guts now wears it. It's now consuming him, if he keeps wearing it, it will consume him completly, his mortal self will die, and the armor will turn him into something like Skully. For Guts, this may be the Beast,

The armor does affect the waerers Od, it changes it so they become their inner demon. We know from Skully that there are side-effects, so I'd imagine those effects stem from the fact that wearing the armor for extended periods starts to change you permanantly, whether or not you stop wearing the armor after. This happened to Skully. Now it's happening to Guts?

Can everyone agree this is reasonable or must we believe there are multiple armors and Skully just wears a death costume and what became of him is in no way related to Guts' situation now. You know... because that's good writing. *BARF*

-Griffith

P.S. I tried to be only positive, maybe next time. =)

I think the translations we' ve had, speak of the armour's od: spirit of the wearer and the od of the armour.
Also if you think about it, Skully seems an amalgam of his skeleton and some kind of a great piece of armour. Do you believe Flora was capable of helping such a thing? She wasn't able to dispell the evil spirits by more time than necessary to reach Elfhelm, if she was speaking the truth that is.
My bet is on the magic of something like the berserker armour or perhaps the elven king of elfhelm (also his name has something to do with "flowers" and skully's sponsor's trademark seems to be the rose  ;D
Certainly what became of Skully is realted to Guts situation, but this can't exclude the fact that Skully could be wearing a berserker armour or a suit with similar properties to the one Guts is wearing.
Now don't get me wrong here...I don't imagine that these abrakatabra suits have been gadgets of mass production and could hit the markets of berserkworld. Just a couple of 'em around just for our buddies to wear and admire.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #171 on: June 06, 2004, 05:54:57 AM »
Whoa, thanks, my bad, I wouldn't want to confuse the spirit of the wearer and the od of the armor with the spirit of the armor and the od of the wearer. That would be stupid.

How about this; Skully is what you see. There's no magic armor, following that the story doesn't suggest Skully is currently wearing armor and as a matter of fact infers that he doesn't; that's just all there is to him. A big husk full of Beherits.

-Griffith

Offline Saiki

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #172 on: June 06, 2004, 04:08:31 PM »
Well, I'm just darn buffaloed about this one, so who DID wear that crazy armor last?


It's pretty obvious when you think about it.
It was
D.

Offline Griffith

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Re:Episode 241
« Reply #173 on: June 06, 2004, 08:17:17 PM »
Best response I've gotten so far. ;D

-Griffith
« Last Edit: June 06, 2004, 08:19:57 PM by Griffith »