Athens

Sparnage said:

Yes they do, I can't pretend I know all about how Taekwondo is over there but I remember it very well when I did it and I even learned from the highest black belt in Australia (type in google "jack rozinsky australia" and it will probably come up with my old teacher who was the only black belt 6 stripe) but still I can now see so many flaws in what they taught its not funny.

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www.sunyis.com
the head instructor, is Grandmaster Sun Yi, 9th degree black belt... he better have a clue what hes doing...
I didn't do a lot of research, but I'd done enough to note that TKD emphasizes areas I think I'm weak in. I then figured, "well, between the grandmaster, and the focuses this should be good."

I suppose if you become a better fighter then he does know what he is doing.
I sometimes forget that I really did still enjoy my old Taekwondo days and thats what really matters.

And you couldn't be more wrong about wrestling and Grappling, if you get out a cage fighting video you will realise that the grapplers often beat the people from most martial arts related to any striking.

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Yes but there are rules that too. You cant bite and you cant rake to the eyes, and you cant grab the balls... and twist. Im 99% sure that you would let go, no matter how strong you are, if your balls were forcfully grabbed and twisted. Hell, if you wanna compare it like that, no sport or tournament style fight can win a fight for you because in compatiton there are rules. In a real fight you think someones gonna stop it if your opponent put that rock on the side of the street in your ass?

Oh and you are full of shit about thinking you saw people kick and so fast that if you blink you would miss it (literally)

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Look up on it. Just because you dont belive me doesn't mean Im full of shit.

"Arrogance diminishes Wisdom"
                                                     -Arabian Proverb

DemonX said:

Yes but there are rules that too. You cant bite and you cant rake to the eyes, and you cant grab the balls... and twist. Im 99% sure that you would let go, no matter how strong you are, if your balls were forcfully grabbed and twisted. Hell, if you wanna compare it like that, no sport or tournament style fight can win a fight for you because in compatiton there are rules. In a real fight you think someones gonna stop it if your opponent put that rock on the side of the street in your ass?

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Actaully in all in all, grapplers will always win, why? because most fights end up on the ground when people tangle up on accident, so yea, I would have to agree that most grapplers will win. Granted now if the person panics, I dont care what style he learns, he will lose.

DemonX said:

Look up on it. Just because you dont belive me doesn't mean Im full of shit.

"Arrogance diminishes Wisdom"
                                                     -Arabian Proverb

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No, I have no idea where this came from and you have already seen this so why don't you send a link to this thread to show us where this glorified wisdom came from. I mean you have already seen it and surely even if you saw it outside of the net you have a better idea on where it came from then I do, and to see people kick and so fast that if you blink you would miss it (literally) sounds absolutely facinating. No seriously it sounds like one of those things that would definitely have made it on the net.

Thanks Demon, I'm really looking forward to seeing this.

Sparnage said:

Thanks Demon, I'm really looking forward to seeing this.

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>:( Now your just making me look like an idiot. I have no idea where to get a taikwondo fight, much less a good one, on the net. I was talking out of personal experiance from one of the fights i saw before. But lets think about it for a second... how long does a kick take? One second? Maybe less? If you blinked how long would that take? A half of second?

And for the quote I wasn't implying anything else except that you were arrogant.

DemonX said:

>:( Now your just making me look like an idiot. I have no idea where to get a taikwondo fight, much less a good one, on the net. I was talking out of personal experiance from one of the fights i saw before. But lets think about it for a second... how long does a kick take? One second? Maybe less? If you blinked how long would that take? A half of second?

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Blinking would take anywhere between 5 to 15 split seconds, a kick doesn't move that fast and if it does then I certainly want to see it because it sounds fucking godlike, so excuse me for being skeptical.

And for the quote I wasn't implying anything else except that you were arrogant.

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It sounded very much like you were implying my ego is making me lack wisdom for not believing in what I simply saw as irrational crap (and still do.) Don't get me wrong, I don't take you for a the lying type but I think you are somewhat mistaken. On that note do not get pride mixed up with arrogance just because you're frustrated.

Ahem, I just enjoy TaeKwonDo. WTF style that is. ITF isn't as fast, and it's more like a feet only karate. TaeKwonDo is just a really cool, fun martial art to learn. It's also fun to watch, when there's 2 good fighters. Sometimes, yes, some of the fighters just do constant double piches, over and over, but occasionly you'll see 2 fucking fast guys have amazing fights. The Olympic fights arn't that great, not as great as some tournaments I've seen, but their still entertaining non the less.
It's not that useful in a real fight, but TKD increases your speed and footwork moreso than any other Martial art IMO. Did I mention that it's fun? Today's TKD isn't meant for kicking ass in real life, it's just sport fighting. Though, if you get hit by a kick by a TKD blackbelt, it's going to hurt like a mother fucker, just as it would with a well placed snap kick in Karate. Also, WTF Taekwondo has alot of fancy smancy show off kicks, like 720 spinning hooks to break a board. That's just cool to watch, no one is going to try that in a fight..it's not meant for traditional fighting.

Also, in a real fight like in a bar or whatever, grapplers probrably wouldn't end up trying to grapple someone on the ground. There'd be too many outside things to worry about, like people hitting you from behind while you are waiting for the mofo to move his arm into the perfect position for a choke.

JeffC said:

Also, in a real fight like in a bar or whatever, grapplers probrably wouldn't end up trying to grapple someone on the ground. There'd be too many outside things to worry about, like people hitting you from behind while you are waiting for the mofo to move his arm into the perfect position for a choke.

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yea your probably right that they wouldnt get the chance to do a "perfect" hold and yea, they would have to worry about other things such as other people and what not but the grappler would still do better because when someone grabs him from behind he will already know what to do to get out of it, but thats you just my opionion. :-* so who knows for sure, but I think all in all in MOST situations, grapplers will do best, and those certain exceptions are where weapons are involved, Guns, Knives, yatta yatta yatta.

Guns, Knives, yatta

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If you ever need motivation...

DemonX said:

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Wow I was just watching one of the old conan o brien episodes a half an hour or so ago. not a really old one, but one from a while ago where he had the box that plays the music from beverly hills cop and the lever that he pulls to play a clip from walker texas ranger.

Eh heh thats where I got the motivation to put that up...

How the fuck does walker texas ranger give you any motivation\??????????? LMAO

Wow I was just watching one of the old conan o brien episodes a half an hour or so ago. not a really old one, but one from a while ago where he had the box that plays the music from beverly hills cop and the lever that he pulls to play a clip from walker texas ranger.

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Yeah I love it when Conan does that very funny. Walker Texas Ranger didn't excatly have the best acting around. But it did sure have a kick ass opening song. 8) *Starts to sing the song*

In the eyes of a ranger,
The unsuspected stranger
Had better know the truth of wrong from right,
Cuz the eyes of a ranger are upon you,
Any wrong you do he's gonna see,
When you’re in Texas look behind you,
Cuz that's where the rangers are gonna be 8)

Oh and I'm not sure if anyone knows that Chuck Norris was Bruce Lee's student.     8)

One thing I really miss about pay TV was Conan O brian, dave and jay are pretty shite but I could always rely on Conan for a laugh.

Is it that surprising that Chuck was his student?

Sparnage said:

One thing I really miss about pay TV was Conan O brian, dave and jay are pretty shite but I could always rely on Conan for a laugh.

Is it that surprising that Chuck was his student?

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No more like woah "awesonme" he was Bruce Lee's studen't. 8)

DemonX said:

Yes but there are rules that too. You cant bite and you cant rake to the eyes, and you cant grab the balls... and twist. Im 99% sure that you would let go, no matter how strong you are, if your balls were forcfully grabbed and twisted. Hell, if you wanna compare it like that, no sport or tournament style fight can win a fight for you because in compatiton there are rules. In a real fight you think someones gonna stop it if your opponent put that rock on the side of the street in your ass?

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Agreed. Grapplers tend to win in UFC. If UFC were mortal combat, we might see some changes. Quick blows to the eyes, neck, crotch, and knees can disable (and basically kill) an opponent in one hit.

The real point of all formalized martial arts though is not to teach people how to fight in street fights, it's to encourage fitness and to prevent them from freezing up or fighting blindly if such a thing happens. Look at the military, do you think in basic that they really learn what its like to be in combat, or do they do lots of pushups, stand up really straight, learn to march in line, do parade tricks,carry lots of weight, and do aiming/IFF exercises?

Denial said:

Agreed. Grapplers tend to win in UFC. If UFC were mortal combat, we might see some changes. Quick blows to the eyes, neck, crotch, and knees can disable (and basically kill) an opponent in one hit.

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No, there probably wouldnt be much changes if the same fighters from UFC were fighting to the death. There are a few rules that change UFC from mortal combat, no eye gouges, no groin hits and no biting. I'm not sure about strikes to the throat are but nose hits are certainly allowed, do you think that would be enough to change a fight of life and death? Biting could be very helpful when you are grappled to the ground but if the grappler has you in a strong enough lock there would be no referee to stop him from breaking your arm, so when that happens how long can a person last? 

The real point of all formalized martial arts though is not to teach people how to fight in street fights, it's to encourage fitness and to prevent them from freezing up or fighting blindly if such a thing happens.

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Most martial arts claim to have the truth to learning self defence; self defence as in defending yourself if you ever have to in real life, but too many of them are too set on tradition and looking nice to to be really helpful. Even if such martial arts are common you will not find a martial art that openly have the "hey we might not be real helpful where it counts, but at least you can get fit from it" attitude.

Look at the military, do you think in basic that they really learn what its like to be in combat, or do they do lots of pushups, stand up really straight, learn to march in line, do parade tricks,carry lots of weight, and do aiming/IFF exercises?

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Pushups, situps, doing obstacle courses and anything else like it are there to make you fit which is absolutely necessary to being in combat, carrying lots of weight is to simulate the situation of being in combat as you have can't avoid having a heavy pack. Marching and taking orders blindly is to break you down so you will be disciplined and loyal. Shooting and combat simulation activities is where the combat training comes into place, but do you think that would be enough without the rest mentioned? The army doesn't have time to dick around teaching unnecessary and misleading things like many martial arts do, it's all there for a reason.

Sparnage said:

No, there probably wouldnt be much changes if the same fighters from UFC were fighting to the death. There are a few rules that change UFC from mortal combat, no eye gouges, no groin hits and no biting. I'm not sure about strikes to the throat are but nose hits are certainly allowed, do you think that would be enough to change a fight of life and death? Biting could be very helpful when you are grappled to the ground but if the grappler has you in a strong enough lock there would be no referee to stop him from breaking your arm, so when that happens how long can a person last?

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Yes. Because fighters in UFC, no matter whether certain moves are allowed or not, are consciously restraining themselves as they are not trying to kill or maim each other. Doesn't Gracie always use the fact that he doesn't seriously injure his opponents to win as a selling point? Even if they were trying to kill each other, there's psychological research that unless seriously trained to do otherwise, humans will attempt to disable rather than kill a human foe.

Sparnage said:

Most martial arts claim to have the truth to learning self defence; self defence as in defending yourself if you ever have to in real life, but too many of them are too set on tradition and looking nice to to be really helpful. Even if such martial arts are common you will not find a martial art that openly have the "hey we might not be real helpful where it counts, but at least you can get fit from it" attitude.

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'Cuz they're selling a product? Is this a surprise?

Sparnage said:

Pushups, situps, doing obstacle courses and anything else like it are there to make you fit which is absolutely necessary to being in combat, carrying lots of weight is to simulate the situation of being in combat as you have can't avoid having a heavy pack. Marching and taking orders blindly is to break you down so you will be disciplined and loyal. Shooting and combat simulation activities is where the combat training comes into place, but do you think that would be enough without the rest mentioned? The army doesn't have time to dick around teaching unnecessary and misleading things like many martial arts do, it's all there for a reason.

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This is exactly what I'm getting at. Basic is there to get you fit teaches you some basic skills you'll need in battle. But primarily it's there to resocialize you into a disciplined member of the army who doesn't panic when the shit hits the fan. Ideally, this is what martial arts does. Is it successful? Probably if you moved away from your family for a few months and had a master who was a real bastard and trained every day. If you went down the street to your local dojo, well, at least you were working out, right?

Denial said:

Yes. Because fighters in UFC, no matter whether certain moves are allowed or not, are consciously restraining themselves as they are not trying to kill or maim each other. Doesn't Gracie always use the fact that he doesn't seriously injure his opponents to win as a selling point? Even if they were trying to kill each other, there's psychological research that unless seriously trained to do otherwise, humans will attempt to disable rather than kill a human foe.

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Why would a fighter in the UFC hold back? I fully believe they are out to do as much injury as possible, and Gracie is a bastard that will do anything to win. I recall in the first UFC in the finals the other guy who made it had a broken hand as swollen as anything that was painful to look at, and Gracie mercilessly went for it and that guy never came back. I wouldn't have been surprised in the slightest if his hand was permanently fucked. Also Gracie never lets go when the opponent taps out because once when a guy tapped out the referee didn't see it, so he will happily hold on until the ref has to usually make physical contact on him before he lets go.

'Cuz they're selling a product? Is this a surprise?

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No it doesn't in the slightest, but that doesn't change the fact that the teachers try and convince the students otherwise, or more common and pathetic actually believe what they are teaching is very helpful where it counts. Martial arts can still teach useful training and sell a product, it happens but not enough. If a person claims to teach self defence then he should teach good self defence, just like in any part of society you do a good job of what the customer expects and not bullshit about it because it is no different.   

This is exactly what I'm getting at. Basic is there to get you fit teaches you some basic skills you'll need in battle. But primarily it's there to resocialize you into a disciplined member of the army who doesn't panic when the shit hits the fan. Ideally, this is what martial arts does. Is it successful? Probably if you moved away from your family for a few months and had a master who was a real bastard and trained every day. If you went down the street to your local dojo, well, at least you were working out, right?

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It's definitely good and necessary to have confidence in a real life situation but if you can't use the moves that were taught to you then it's a dangerious thing, which is apart of the reason it disgusts me so much.
Whats the best thing to do when you are in the situation and you know that you can't win? Back out of it with everything you can or if that can't be avoided run away with everything you have. It's not unheard of to hear about people who are too confident in themselves because of what they did martial arts and get the shit beaten out of them by some street punk who learned to fight on the street, and what happens when they attack? They get beaten up worse and all the money he spent on getting trained by a "professional" was in vain.

If I had to put money on either a guy who has learned Karate for a year or a guy who gets in a real fight once a month I would be thinking in most cases the Karate guy would be the one to lose.

Sparnage said:

Why would a fighter in the UFC hold back? I fully believe they are out to do as much injury as possible, and Gracie is a bastard that will do anything to win. I recall in the first UFC in the finals the other guy who made it had a broken hand as swollen as anything that was painful to look at, and Gracie mercilessly went for it and that guy never came back. I wouldn't have been surprised in the slightest if his hand was permanently fucked. Also Gracie never lets go when the opponent taps out because once when a guy tapped out the referee didn't see it, so he will happily hold on until the ref has to usually make physical contact on him before he lets go.

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I remember that. In Gracie's defense, that dude was insane. He broke his hand in the first round and fought his way to the finals. By the second round that guys hand was seriously swollen, but then right out of the gate, he pummeled his opponent senseless with it. I've always wondered what happened to that guy.

Faust said:

I remember that.  In Gracie's defense, that dude was insane.  He broke his hand in the first round and fought his way to the finals.  By the second round that guys hand was seriously swollen, but then right out of the gate, he pummeled his opponent senseless with it.  I've always wondered what happened to that guy.

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Heh, yeah I was pretty impressed by that guy, pity he never came back. I remember flinching whenever I watched him full on punch with his broken over and over, a tough bastard if not sane. I used to think Gracie was pretty cool but I don't think so anymore, he made it boring like when him and shamrock would just hold eachother for half a hour before the fight had to end for timing reasons, fuck that I don't mind Grappling submissions but it's certainly better to watch strike if you are the sort of person to watch UFC in the first place.


So..... how about them Olympics?

Sparnage said:

So..... how about them Olympics?

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Olympic Basketball: U.S.A. vs. Australia

Should be a good game. Shall we start hurling the ethnic slurs at each other now, or later? ;D

"Griffith No More!" said:

Olympic Basketball: U.S.A. vs. Australia

Should be a good game. Shall we start hurling the ethnic slurs at each other now, or later? ;D

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In all my years of racial slur hurling, i have not really heard anything about Austrlians other then, hey, your a damn australian. So any suggestions would be helpful, and to our australian people out there, man arnt those Aborigenies(sp?) sexy? :-*

"Griffith No More!" said:

Olympic Basketball: U.S.A. vs. Australia

Should be a good game. Shall we start hurling the ethnic slurs at each other now, or later? ;D

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Why bother, Australia's fucked. :'(

SaiyajinNoOuji said:

In all my years of racial slur hurling, i have not really heard anything about Austrlians other then, hey, your a damn australian. So any suggestions would be helpful, and to our australian people out there, man arnt those Aborigenies(sp?) sexy?  :-*

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Aboriginals sexy?! You are one sick puppy!
I don't know what to tell you about us, we are but a simple folk however i'll let you into a secret on why we are so good at swimming though; you see whenever we have to do Kangaroo herding in the outback they often run into water hoping we can't go after them. Those bloody Kangaroo's happen to be great swimmers so we have to be as well in order to catch them before they get in the way of our primitive outback cars, eat all Koala bears and shit in our Didgeridoos! ZKK will back me up on that one.

Incidentally if we don't say "G'day mate" or talk about putting shrimp on the BBQ in at least once in 4 conversations a day we start getting rashes, no seriously!