Author Topic: A good question ...  (Read 3135 times)

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paradise_lost

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A good question ...
« on: December 02, 2004, 11:42:46 PM »

Looking inside the last topic closed in this part of the forum, I remember my old question ... and now this is my speculation:

Aazealh, I totally agree to be Nazi in this kind of situation, I can agree with u. But, why don't u consider the possibility to be wrong in the interpretation of words of Miura? It could be an act of maturity by u and the others ...

Here we have simply an example, the question of The Hawk of Light and The Hawk of Dark ... but this is not the point.

Maybe someone new, someone who is less expert about Berserk than me, u, Walter, Olivier and the others could be able to let us see all the situation of Berserk with a new light ...

Think about it.

  :-*

Offline IV

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2004, 12:05:24 AM »
As I see it there are two possibilities.
   1>Griffith is masquerading as the Falcon of Light, whilst in actuality being the Falcon of darkness.(meaning their isn't truely a Falcon of Light.  Or as Aazealh Says "He is Both")
       This can be supported that there is a single Falcon atop the holy symbol of the people demonstrating that they are the blind white sheep worshipping the Falcon of Darkness unknowingly confusing him as the Falcon of light.
    2>Griffith is masquerading as the Falcon of Light, whilst in actuality being the Falcon of darkness. Allowing there to still be a Falcon of light somewhere.
        Only support I can give is If the Falcon of Light is to be a savior, and the Falcon of Darkness the one to bring ruin, and Griffith is the latter, a savior is still required. :-\

I beleive both are possibile, but due to the further evidence of the first I will go with it for now.

But No one will be certain, until it is spelled out for us. ;)

Offline Olivier Hague

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2004, 01:16:04 AM »
Only support I can give is If the Falcon of Light is to be a savior, and the Falcon of Darkness the one to bring ruin, and Griffith is the latter, a savior is still required. :-\
Remember when and how the "Falcon of Light" was first mentioned and shown. It is Griffith.

Offline IV

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2004, 01:40:05 AM »
Thinking about it, it seems that two chatacters have been shown as a Falcon of light.  Of course you are right that Griffith was shownas the falcon of light, although in some drawings it would seem that the demon child is shown as a falcon of light. ;)
But that may only be intended to be artistic and not percieved as important to the story.

Offline NeverSoul

Re: A good question ...
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2004, 03:14:17 AM »
Honestly i think there is more to the story than Griffith being both light and dark. The thing is there is nothing saying hes not so Aaz's arguement is strong. If you've payed attention to Miura's writing and bring in outside sources...anything from the bible, Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicals, Lord of the Rings, ect ect ect, then there would be some substance to the arguement. There are probabally more books than not portraying the the devil or devilish things as being appeling or misleading. 
When Angels fall from heaven they become Devils~Vicious

Offline Olivier Hague

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2004, 03:18:23 AM »
in some drawings it would seem that the demon child is shown as a falcon of light. ;)
Er... Guess why.

Honestly i think there is more to the story than Griffith being both light and dark. The thing is there is nothing saying hes not
Guys... The manga says he is.
_Again_, remember when and how the "Falcon of Light" was first mentioned and shown. Please.

Offline NeverSoul

Re: A good question ...
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2004, 03:36:45 AM »
give me a quick refresher cause if there is something saying he is both/ one or the other then why does this topic keep coming up?
When Angels fall from heaven they become Devils~Vicious

Offline Olivier Hague

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2004, 03:45:03 AM »
give me a quick refresher
Volume 17.
Quote
cause if there is something saying he is both/ one or the other then why does this topic keep coming up?
Why, indeed.

Offline NeverSoul

Re: A good question ...
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2004, 04:12:39 AM »
The only think i can find currently on chapter 17 was the part about the dream. Is that what you were talking about? Also i wont ever deny that Griffith is the hawk of light. What i am saying is that the devil is beautiful and charismatic just like the books i mentioned. Ive only read the manga a couple times through...just what the spect has posted and i cant remember off the top of my head if they said the hawk of darkness is the one to bring the apocalypse
« Last Edit: December 03, 2004, 04:22:41 AM by NeverSoul »
When Angels fall from heaven they become Devils~Vicious

Offline Aazealh

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2004, 08:08:19 AM »
Aazealh, I totally agree to be Nazi in this kind of situation, I can agree with u. But, why don't u consider the possibility to be wrong in the interpretation of words of Miura? It could be an act of maturity by u and the others ...

Heil, I don't consider this possibility because it's not a matter of interpretation. Guts being the Black Swordsman isn't a matter of interpretation, because it is said and shown in the manga. Same goes for Griffith, and the Falcon of Light/Darkness.

People are just confused because the H.I.C.K.s were, and probably because they don't pay enough attention to the story and/or use bad translations.

Maturity is irrelevant here, if you tell me Griffith is the Black Swordsman, I'll correct you, and I won't bother to reconsider my point, same goes here. It'd be a waste of time to.

Maybe someone new, someone who is less expert about Berserk than me, u, Walter, Olivier and the others could be able to let us see all the situation of Berserk with a new light ...

It's possible, about something that's not sure or explained in the manga yet (for example, Gaiseric's downfall, SK and Zodd's relationship, etc). However, in the precise case of the Falcon of Light and Darkness, there is no possible doubt. It's just a matter of people being unable to read, sadly.

The only think i can find currently on chapter 17 was the part about the dream. Is that what you were talking about?

Well, there's actually a giant Falcon, that's literally made of Light. And it's Griffith. Really guys, it's him, it IS spelled out for us, no big deal.

As for why that topic keeps coming up, I could choose the easy way and say it's because of bad translations, but honestly, I think it's just people not paying enough attention.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2004, 12:19:34 PM by Aazealh »

paradise_lost

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2004, 08:33:31 AM »
Heil, I don't consider this possibility because it's not a matter of interpretation. Guts being the Black Swordsman isn't a matter of interpretation, because it is said and shown in the manga. Same goes for Griffith, and the Falcon of Light/Darkness.

Well, I please u to put more attention to my point ... I said that of course, Guts is the Black Swordsman, and of course, probably Griffith is the Falcon of Light/Darkness. But Miura never said directly something like this. He only let us understand step by step that probably it's in this way. But, why don't u consider the possibility that Miura wants only let us understand that the kind of visions that let us see Griffith as the Falcon of Light/Darkness it's only an idea of Miura to let as be like "the white blind sheeps"? At the end, we got our opinion only by something coming by Griffith and the God Hand. We still don't know what is Elfhelm and what we'll be able to find inside it. At the end, Guts is a Hawk too.
I said all this 'cause the point in my opinion is: it's not so good to be too much integralist for what about a manga we still know so few. We'll have to be much more open minded in my opinion.

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Maturity is irrevelant here, if you tell me Griffith is the Black Swordsman, I'll correct you, and I won't bother to reconsider my point, same goes here. It'd be a waste of time to.

I never said Griffith is the Balck Swordsman, but if u got my point, u r for sure able to understand what I mean with the word "maturity" in that case.

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It's possible, about something that's not sure or explained in the manga yet (for example, Gaiseric's downfall, SK and Zodd's relationship, etc).

Here u r right.

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However, in the precise case of the Falcon of Light and Darkness, there is no possible doubt. It's just a matter of people being unable to read, sadly.

Let me be able to disagree. As u know, I read Berserk since 1996, and I have all italian editions and all japaneses edition. I give once a year money to the better translator we have to the Japanese Embassy in Rome to let translate for me Berserk in the right way, and of course, I understod that all the story can't be simply so easy and "in one way direction to" to explain.

Quote
Well, there's actually a giant Falcon, that's literally made of Light. And it's Griffith. Really guys, it's him, it IS spelled out for us, no big deal.

U probably right, but not definitly. This is my idea. Maybe the concept of Light is not so clear for us, "the white blind sheeps". Maybe we are nothing than this. Maybe we are blind 'cause we are very in the idea to have understood all, like people in Vritannis, or Minister Phos. Maybe we are under the controll of our Griffith, Mr. Miura.

  ;)

« Last Edit: December 03, 2004, 08:35:16 AM by paradise_lost »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2004, 08:54:10 AM »
Well, I please u to put more attention to my point ... I said that of course, Guts is the Black Swordsman

It was a fucking generic "you", a hypothesis, a fictional situation used to illustrate my point... It has nothing to do with what you did or didn't say.

probably Griffith is the Falcon of Light/Darkness.

No, it's sure.

But Miura never said directly something like this.

He did, it's in the manga. Besides, he called me last night and told me so.

Let me be able to disagree. As u know, I read Berserk since 1996, and I have all italian editions and all japaneses edition. I give once a year money to the better translator we have to the Japanese Embassy in Rome to let translate for me Berserk in the right way, and of course, I understod that all the story can't be simply so easy and "in one way direction to" to explain.

Well, as you don't know, I myself read Berserk since 1987, and I'm not only fluent in Japanese, but also in French, English, Bulgarian, Spanish, Greek, Russian, Korean, Chinese (simplified and traditional), Hebrew, Arabic, Dioula, Portuguese, and Aramean. I've got all the volumes twice in every language, and I'm actually the CEO of Hakusensha, as well as the best friend of Kentarou Miura.

Btw, how's Monique doing? ;)

This is my idea. Maybe the concept of Light is not so clear for us [...]

Maybe it's not clear for you.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2004, 08:00:11 PM by Aazealh »

paradise_lost

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2004, 09:12:31 AM »
It was a fucking generic "you", a hypothesis, a fictional situation used to illustrate my point... It has nothing to do with what you did or didn't say.

No, it's sure.

Well, it's ok for me. I respect your opinion 'cause I have the same opinion. But at the same, in my opinion, it's not sure, but it's a very strong and probably opinion.

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He did, it's in the manga. Besides, he called me last night and told me so.

Well, as you don't know, I myself read Berserk since 1987, and I'm not only fluent in Japanese, but also in French, English, Bulgarian, Spanish, Greek, Russian, Korean, Chinese (simplified and traditional), Hebrew, Arabic, Dioula, Portuguese, and Aramean. I've got all the volumes twice in every language, and I'm actually the CEO of Hakusensha, as well as the best friend of Kentarou Miura.

Well, u r lucky then to have a direct line to Miura, and to be able to understand so many languages ... I'm a little bit jelous ...

 :-\

Quote
Btw, how's Monique doing? ;)

She is ok actually, I'll tell here that u still think about her, she'll have a strong present to her strong ego.

  8)

Offline puella

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2004, 09:14:42 AM »
But, why don't u consider the possibility that Miura wants only let us understand that the kind of visions that let us see Griffith as the Falcon of Light/Darkness it's only an idea of Miura to let as be like "the white blind sheeps"?

OK, then the white blind sheep are what Zodd has served and probably the Ultimate Strong One he found?
This is the greatest nonsense you have ever said.
Even if you toss just a possibility, you ring the bell at my door and give me a good blow. I respect your great illusion. There is a fanfic section. I recommend you to try that though it's so clear it will be one of the worst fanfics.

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At the end, Guts is a Hawk too.

Then Guts finally turns out to be an elf man/hawk? :o interesting. I like such a weird thought. I can't wait to see such a mixture of elf + man+ hawk.

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U probably right, but not definitly. This is my idea. Maybe the concept of Light is not so clear for us, "the white blind sheeps".

It's so clear, not maybe. And again I have to say you impressed me with the white blind sheep. You made my day. You are my god. Can I even have one of your socks? I'll keep it forever if I can get it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2004, 11:55:57 AM by Aazealh »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: A good question ...
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2004, 09:24:49 AM »
Well, it's ok for me. I respect your EXPLANATION OF WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE MANGA 'cause I have the same INTEREST FOR BERSERK. But at the same, in my bias and stubborn opinion, it's not sure, but it's a DEFINITE FACT THAT I AM WRONG AND THAT YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THIS, IT'S A SURE THING.

Ok, fine. I'll lock the thread then :).

She is ok actually, I'll tell here that u still think about her, she'll have a strong present to her strong ego.

Good. Is she still a dream seller (crack dealer)?