Author Topic: Rakshas' Apostle Form  (Read 7351 times)

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-rob-

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Rakshas' Apostle Form
« on: October 12, 2005, 09:05:38 PM »
When hopefully will we see it?

And What do you guys think he'll be like?


I'm guessing it will be something sort of like Ganishka...

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2005, 09:08:36 PM »
When hopefully will we see it?

And What do you guys think he'll be like?


I'm guessing it will be something sort of like Ganishka...
...I actually never thought about this before.  I guess I, for some reason, just assumed he was already in an Apostle form, which, now that I think about it, is probably not the case.  It'd be cool if he turned into some sort of shadow with amazing speed. :void:

Offline EndlessSky

Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2005, 10:46:18 PM »
Probably some sort of bizzare shadowy creature, no telling what he would change into.

Offline HawaiianStallion

Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2005, 05:08:22 PM »
Yeah I was never really sure what form Rakshas is in, as for one we've never really seen what's under the mask and cloak. However I'm not sure he's definatly in his human form as when we do get something of a clear shape of an appendage throw his cloke it often times doesnt look like anything a humanoid Apostle would have on their form.

What I'm guessing is supposed to be a hand looks more like a large claw, spike, tentacle, or something of the sort. Its possible he might be in his apostle form all the time, or maybe like the beherit apostle, he just doesnt have a human form what-so-ever.

Offline CnC

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2005, 05:12:35 PM »
I kinda want him to be formless when transformed.  He's already almost there... :void:
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Offline xechnao

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 06:08:35 PM »
When Silat encounters him, he recognizes Rakshas as something of his race.
I think this means that he knows how they look like and what they are able to do and that Rakshas are not considered as something uniquelly unhuman, unlike some apostle would be for example.
Besides the Tapasa didn't mention that they sensed a special aura about him either.
The question is, how Rakshas knew that Griffith was there if he is not an apostle.
Well, as one of the shadows could be the answer. This means that if Rakshas was looking for Griffith he was proficient enough to find him.
And since Silat's race is between Griffith and the Emperor and Rakshas could have known more or differently about the Emperor and Griffith, he could have made a different decision as to how Silat's race should do.
Besides, this could also be an answer as to why he wanted to show Silat that Ganishka is no good.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 06:14:20 PM »
When Silat encounters him, he recognizes Rakshas as something of his race.

No, actually he just says that Rakshas is a banned member of his clan, the Bakiraka. They never say anything about a "race".

Besides the Tapasa didn't mention that they sensed a special aura about him either.

Well, the Tapasa never said they sensed any aura at all anyway.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Rakshas Apsotle Form
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 06:22:45 PM »
No, actually he just says that Rakshas is a banned member of his clan, the Bakiraka. They never say anything about a "race".

They did. According to Wakako Hirabuki and Gianluca Bevere, official translators of Berserk Manga in Italy.
But even if you translate it the way you do, it still seems Rakshas could be less an apostle than a human since you can hardly ban an apostle from your clan, no?

Well, the Tapasa never said they sensed any aura at all anyway.

That's because they never faced an apostle directly anyway :).


« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 06:28:54 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2005, 06:31:47 PM »
They did. According to Wakakao Hirabuki and Gianluca Bevere, official translators of Berserk Manga in Italy.

These guys are wrong then, it's too bad for them really.

it still seems Rakshas could be less an apostle than a human since you can hardly ban an apostle from your clan, no?

Who said he was banned after he became an apostle? And why wouldn't they be able to ban him as an apostle? He could leave by himself, who says he'd wish to stay by force?

That's because they never faced an apostle directly anyway :).

Well, they faced Rakshas directly, and he's an apostle. :void: They also kneeled in front of Ganishka, an apostle. And have been surrounded by apostles in Shet, and were almost run on by Locus and his men, all apostles. They just aren't able to sense apostles.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Rakshas Apsotle Form
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2005, 06:40:16 PM »
Well, they faced Rakshas directly, and he's an apostle.
Is there any proof of this?

They also kneeled in front of Ganishka, an apostle. And have been surrounded by apostles, and were almost run on by Locus and his men, all apostles. They just aren't able to sense apostles.

And about the other apostles near them, well they were not near enough, neither did they transform. This is why they didn't feel their aura. I am not talking about sensing apostles in an area but feel the aura they cast.
Remember when Guts faced Zodd first time? The others behind didn't feel Zodd's aura or so I remember but yet Guts did when Zodd transformed.
Rakhashas didn't transform either, but this beats the argument in a different manner.


PS. Those are translating Berserk in Italy. They have translated most if not all of it so far without any problems so I bet that they know their stuff.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 06:46:39 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline handsome rakshas

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2005, 06:43:23 PM »
Honestly, I don't want to see Rakshas in apostle form. I love him the way he is. For now, I think he is the ultimate in cool and I just can't imagine him as a big angry demon or some sort of weird animal or anything. I predict (and hope) here and now that we will NEVER see Rakshas in apostle form.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2005, 06:50:40 PM »
Is there any proof of this?

Haha, I knew you'd say that. Well, there's no direct proof that he's an apostle. We know he's not human at least (3 eyes, plus the stuff HawaiianStallion mentioned). He found Griffith with the other apostles though, is part of the apostle army, leads other apostles, etc. Isn't that enough? Weren't you saying that Locus and Grunberd weren't apostles before it was proven they were? Really, I don't want to argue for hours about this, it's a matter of common sense to me, so I'll just recycle one of your old lines: Do you want to bet that he is an apostle?

And about the other apostles near them, well they were not near enough, neither did they transform. This is why they didn't feel their aura. I am not talking about sensing apostles in an area but feel the aura they cast.

I know what you're talking about, but it's just not correct to say it like that. The Tapasa themselves don't have any special ability to feel auras or whatever.

What you refer to, like how when Guts faced Zodd he sensed the change in the atmosphere, isn't only valid for transformed apostles. Guts felt the same when he met Skull Knight later on, and Mule felt that something was wrong when he first met Locus. Really, this isn't getting anywhere. :schierke:

Those are translating Berserk in Italy. They have translated most if not all of it so far without any problems so I bet that they know their stuff.

There are a lot of errors in the Italian edition of Berserk, and the line you mentioned earlier is definitely wrong. Don't try to contest this because it's a waste of time. Also, please write the names correctly, in this case: Rakshas. I'm tired of correcting them myself.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Rakshas Apsotle Form
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2005, 07:11:05 PM »
Haha, I know you'd say that. Well, there's no direct proof that he's an apostle. We know he's no human at least (3 eyes, plus the stuff HawaiianStallion mentioned).
His mask has three eyes painted on it. That doesn't mean that he actually has three eyes.


He found Griffith with the other apostles though, is part of the apostle army, leads other apostles, etc. Isn't that enough?
It is just not true. We have not seen him lead apostles, nor make part of the apostle army.
What is true is that he found Griffith over there.
But as I tried to explain, if Rakhashas was looking for Griffith perhaps he was able to find him over there even as a human.

Weren't you saying that Locus and Grunberd weren't apostles before it was proven they were?

No, I wasn't.


Really, I don't want to argue for hours about this, it's a matter of common sense to me, so I'll just recycle one of your old lines: Do you want to bet that he is apostle?
I don't want to bet really. But it depends on what we are betting.


I know what you're talking about, but it's just not correct to say it like that. The Tapasa themselves don't have any special ability to feel auras or whatever. What you refer to, like how when Guts faced Zodd he sensed the change in the atmosphere, isn't only valid for transformed apostles. Guts felt the same when he met Skull Knight later on, and Mule felt that something was wrong when he first met Locus. Really, this isn't getting anywhere. :schierke:

I don't see this as a special ability and I don't confuse it with Guts' ability as a branded one to sense evil apostles and GH.
The fear Zodd casted as a monster on Guts first place was due to Zodd, not Guts IMO.
Same I think about Mule and skullknight: it's the monster that imposes it's aura and terror to the others, not the others that sense and track the monster.
Skullknight wanted to introduce himself to Guts. I can very well guess that he prepared him for what he was to face. Same on Locus. I think he was preparing Mule to the dark forest with the other, more terrifying apostles over there.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2005, 07:25:50 PM »
His mask has three eyes painted on it. That doesn't mean that he actually has three eyes.

It's not paint. There's 3 holes, and 3 eyes glowing in them. Read the manga again, look at official color illustrations by Miura, etc.

It is just not true. We have not seen him lead apostles, nor make part of the apostle army.

We did see him lead apostles, in volume 23. And he's part of Griffith's apostle army. If you don't want people to think you're "ignorant", get your facts straight and check twice before replying.

But as I tried to explain, if Rakhashas was looking for Griffith perhaps he was able to find him over there even as a human.

He's not human. You miswrote that name again, next time it's -100 posts.

No, I wasn't.

Haha, I'll search for that.

I don't want to bet really. But it depends on what we are betting.

You lost your signature already, though I was kind enough not to take it away from you. Anyway, it's settled.

The fear Zodd casted as a monster on Guts first place was due to Zodd, not Guts IMO.

Yes, as a fearsome monster. A monster Guts had never seen, something that was beyond his understanding. The Tapasa saw Zodd when Griffith was incarnated though.

Same I think about Mule and skullknight: it's the monster that imposes it's aura and terror to the others, not the others that sense and track the monster.

Like I said, it's a change in the atmosphere, a look they have, and I guess you could call it an aura in a figurative sense, yes. But that's not what you were saying at first, what with the Tapasa specifically not sensing an aura from Rakshas. That's what doesn't make sense. Oh, and the other apostles not being near enough is also wrong, please don't make me post the panels from the manga.

Skullknight wanted to introduce himself to Guts. I can very well guess that he prepared him for what he was to face. Same on Locus. I think he was preparing Mule to the dark forest with the other, more terrifying apostles over there.

No, I don't think they casted an "aura of fear" voluntarily, and of course, nothing hints at this, as usual with you, so you can't bring any convincing fact to back up your opinion.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Rakshas Apsotle Form
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2005, 07:49:30 PM »
We did see him lead apostles, in volume 23. And he's part of Griffith's apostle army. If you don't want people to think you're "ignorant", get your facts straight and check twice before replying.

I only see Rakhshas (sorry about the spelling if it is wrong, why don't you automatize this since it should be official?) near Griffith dispaching some Kushan spies.


He's not human. You miswrote that name again, next time it's -100 posts.
You lost your signature already, though I was kind enough not to take it away from you. Anyway, it's settled.

I don't care about this stuff really.

Haha, I'll search for that.
You should have done so before, really.


Yes, as a fearsome monster. A monster Guts had never seen, something that was beyond his understanding. The Tapasa saw Zodd when Griffith was incarnated though.

You are wrong. Guts trembled even the second time Zodd transformed in front of him.
About what you are saying on the Tapasa, I have to say that even others have seen Zodd. So, it is not seeing it: it is how directly the apostle interacts with you.
Which is what I said first place.

Like I said, it's a change in the atmosphere, a look they have, and I guess you could call it an aura in a figurative sense, yes. But that's not what you were saying at first, what with the Tapasa specifically not sensing an aura from Rakshas. That's what doesn't make sense. .
IMO, it's based on a direct approach of the apostle towards his target. Thus for example the other humans didn't seem so bothered about Locus as Mule did.

Oh, and the other apostles not being near enough is also wrong, please don't make me post the panels from the manga.
I have the manga in front of me. The distance is not short. But it's not the distance only. It is how close their interaction is By the apostle's POV.
This is what I am talking about.

No, I don't think they casted an "aura of fear" voluntarily, and of course, nothing hints at this, as usual with you, so you can't bring any convincing fact to back up your opinion.

It's a mix of more stuff really. Besides, you can't prove it's wrong either and even more I said first place it is just my opinion. Nothing to prove here.


PS: About the cards, it seems that Rakhshas mask is all but painted and doesn't have even holes. Perhaps he uses senses except sight alla some martial arts. That makes sense about him since it seems his style is Ninja, kind of a dare devil than evades and hits all directions around.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2005, 08:02:14 PM by xechnao »
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline yota821

Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2005, 08:02:50 PM »
Rakshas also killed the Kushan soldiers who were fleeing from the battlefield when Griffith and his army helped Mule and his men.
I'm just a poor, wayfaring stranger.......just moving along to the next habitation of demons.....

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2005, 08:07:44 PM »
I only see Rakhshas (sorry about the spelling if it is wrong, why don't you automatize this since it should be official?) near Griffith dispaching some Kushan spies.

Sometimes I'd like to believe I don't need to automatise everything. And you're getting the -100 posts. Anyway you didn't look hard enough, it's before that, in episode 193, at the end of the battle where Mule and his men are saved by the Hawks.

You should have done so before, really.

Like I have nothing else to do but to check all your of posts; you've said so much incorrect stuff, it's hard to remember what you didn't say. You on the other hand should read the manga before posting, really.

You are wrong. Guts trumbled even the second time Zodd transformed in front of him.

No, I'm not, you just don't understand what I'm saying. How quick you are to say people are wrong when half of what you say is actually incorrect... It's incredible.

So, it is not seeing it: it is how directly the apostle interacts with you.
Which is what I said first place.

No, you just said "the Tapasa didn't mention that they sensed a special aura about him" like it was proving something. And stop inventing rules about when someone has to be impressed by a supernatural character or not, it happens when Miura shows it happening, period.

IMO, it's based on a direct approach of the apostle towards his target.

And that's based on nothing at all. Not worth talking about IMO.

I have the manga in front of me. The distance is not short. But it's not the distance only. It is how close their interaction is By the apostle's POV.

Ok, now you are definitely nonsensical. SK wasn't near Guts (and he's not an apostle), same with Mule and Locus, and the Tapasa weren't too far from the apostles anyway, and very close to Rakshas of course. Interaction by the apostle's point of view? Ridiculous (IMO).

It's a mix of more stuff really. Besides, you can't prove it's wrong either and even more I said first place it is just my opinion. Nothing to prove here.

Yeah, it's your usual excuse about how nothing can prove you wrong though nothing would lead anybody to think like you do. Fine, no need to go on then, let's just wait and see what happens in the manga. :SK:

About the cards, it seems that Rakhshas mask is all but painted and doesn't have even holes. Perhaps he uses senses except sight alla some martial arts. That makes sense about him since it seems his style is Ninja, kind of a dare devil than evades and hits all directions around.

First, there are holes, you just need the manga to see it. Second, if you're talking about the TCG, it doesn't look like the eyes are painted (which is what you said, though it probably wasn't your intention). Third, I'm afraid you'll never change, no matter what happens. You've exposed your theories, I've said I disagreed, if we could leave it at that and let people talk about Rakshas' Apostle Form, which is the thread's topic, that'd be fantastic. Thanks in advance xech.

Offline HawaiianStallion

Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2005, 09:24:41 PM »
I'm fairly sure Rakshas is an apostle, I'm just not sure what kind. There arent really different "kinds" of apostles so to speak but most apostles in their human forms at least look somewhat human (2 arms, 2 legs, and have all the basic essentials to at least appearing human) however so far he doesnt seem to have a normal human form (if that's what he's in) from the three eyes to the rather bizarre appendage.

That's why I wonder if he's in a constant apostle form similar to the beherit apostle because he somehow gave up his body or for some unknown reason.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2005, 09:40:43 PM »
he doesnt seem to have a normal human form (if that's what he's in) from the three eyes to the rather bizarre appendage.

Yep, he does appear to have some sort of knees though (end of episode 233), but what I'd also like to point out is his uncanny nimbleness. He can reduce his body to a ball not even a third as big as he usually is, makes sounds implying he dislocates his bones, and is able to jump inhumanly high as well to bend his body in extreme ways while in mid-air, all of this very quickly of course.

If I had to guess, since I didn't have the occasion to do it yet in this thread, I'd say that he has another form into which he'll end up transforming later on. His "human form" is just badass, like Grunberd's, Irvine's or Locus' is. And I'm expecting it to be very cool of course, being an apostle as prominent as he is as well as an interesting and mysterious character.

Offline xechnao

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2005, 09:29:49 PM »
Ok, just a last quick note on the matter.
First of all I have to admit my error about the Rakshas leading apostles in Griffith's army. Well I had skipped that one
Anyway, I still don't think this is the most important thing and I still stand on my opinion that there are chances Rakshas might just be a human.

About the other matter on apostles, I still see it as imposion they are able to cast on human beings, a power casted in a similar way as Mule's submission by Griffith - not the same thing, but something that explains in a way what I am talking about.

Well, with this I have nothing more to say here: it's just this and what I have said above.
Btw, sorry for this big parenthesis in the thread, I won't spoil it anymore.

So, if Rakshas has an apostle form, that one IMO, will be of a dark liquid that can be set and move in any way in the earth and in the air, able to be divided in three different parts and hiding spikes, able to strike each one that gets close.
And the game plays on people's backs and they don't even have a clue about it, wasting their energy because their attention is distracted by the rulers' game itself.
Pay attention people. Watch your back!

Offline Uriel

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2005, 10:10:24 PM »
I love reading threads like this :badbone:

Offline handsome rakshas

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2005, 11:19:42 PM »
I love reading threads like this :badbone:

Indeed, and the fact that they're discussing my favorite character makes this the best thing ever. This thread got pretty heated. Rakshas loves it when you fight over him! (If I had a Rakshas emoticon I would use it here.)

Offline Ko Ninja

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2005, 12:09:08 AM »
I'm glad Rakshas is getting some love as well, Handsome Rakshas.  He's so awesome!  It's too bad all signs point to "yes!" that he's an Apostle.  I just wish he wasn't and that he was truely a non-apostle bad arse exiled from the Bakiraka for interesting reasons revealed later in the manga (though at least some of that is already true). I like Silat and the 4 Tapasa as well.  Then again, I love every character in the series. 
カルドセプト

Offline The Blue Daemon

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2005, 06:20:39 PM »
I like Silat and the 4 Tapasa as well.

Too bad there's only 2 tapasa left--Rakshas saw to that
In this world...

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Rakshas' Apostle Form
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2005, 06:24:34 PM »
Too bad there's only 2 tapasa left--Rakshas saw to that

No, the ones that fought him in Shet were with Silat in Wyndham (episodes 231 - 234), they aren't dead.