Author Topic: A fight between Skullknight and Guts  (Read 5026 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Omega Tom Hanks

  • Fanboy
  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 189
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • The Raging Demon
A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« on: May 17, 2006, 07:02:47 PM »
We both know there strong, and we have seen Guts's strength, in who he has defeated, and we have seen the strength of the SK, in who his has defeated. Based on who they have defeated, who would come out the winner if they ever fought???(Guts having his Berserk armor on, of course)
Why in God's name would I wanna keep writing about characters whose central preoccupation are weed and dick and fart jokes? I mean, ya gotta grow man. Don't you ever want anything more for yourself? I know this poor hapless son of a bitch does. I look into his sorry doe eyes and I just, I see a man crying out. He's crying out, "When Lord? When the fuck can your servant ditch this foul-mouthed little chucklehead to whom I am a constant victim of his folly, so much so that it prevents him from ever getting to kiss a girl! Fuck! When, Lord when? WHENS GONNA BE MY TIME?

Offline Sparnage

Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2006, 07:20:05 PM »
Probably still Skully.

Offline Feanor

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Nur dem Schwert kannst du vertrauen!
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2006, 10:17:00 PM »
I think a fully recovered Guts with Berserk Armor could be on the same level. Guts fought Zodd without the armor on the hill of swords quite well and Guts was injured when he fought Grunbeld with the armor. I think that a healthy Guts with armor is with a high probability able to beat both of them. But Skully is better than Zodd an Grunbeld too. I assume that Zodd an Grunbeld are equal in strength. Skully has beaten Zodd during the first Apocalypse. Zodd has lost both arms and Skully was surely able to finish him, but he had other business to do.
But i think skully is far more experienced than guts and he has allways some aces  to play, like the sword of resonance, for example. So in the end, skully is the master and guts the apprentice  :SK:

Offline SaiyajinNoOuji

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 3093
  • Karma: 1
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm still better than you
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2006, 11:28:59 PM »
I think Skully with no problems. Seeing how he has like more then likely 300+ years of battle experience.
"Plenty of time to sleep when you're dead!"

smoke

  • Guest
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 03:35:59 AM »
I don't think they'll ever actually fight in the manga.

But I'm always up for hypothetical fights. I think SkullKnight wins, but barely. I don't think Guts can do much against a sword of resonnance.  :isidro:

Offline Raziel

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 68
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • "Each man is haunted until his humanity awakens."
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2006, 05:04:29 AM »
Even if Guts was fully recovered and had the Berserker armor I don't think he'd be able to beat good old Skully, but I'm sure Guts would put up one hell of a fight and give Skully a run for his money.  When it comes down to it Skully's just got more experience when it comes to battle and he also seems to bear a greater wisdom when it comes to the world and its inner workings. 

Besides, 300+ years of fighting freakish apostles and other monsters are bound to give him greater strength (not including his snazzy sword of resonnance) and he also seems to have stronger ties to and is better able to 'manipulate' the astral plane.  At least he seems to know how to get around and in or out of less than pleasant situations that normal people wouldn't ever dream of escaping from or entering in the first place.

Erh...sorry for going on that little rant there.   :SK:
-Raz :beast:

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18428
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2006, 05:57:18 AM »
I think a fully recovered Guts with Berserk Armor could be on the same level. Guts fought Zodd without the armor on the hill of swords quite well and Guts was injured when he fought Grunbeld with the armor. I think that a healthy Guts with armor is with a high probability able to beat both of them. But Skully is better than Zodd an Grunbeld too. I assume that Zodd an Grunbeld are equal in strength.

Wow, that's a lot of assumptions... And I can't agree with most of them.

Skully has beaten Zodd during the first Apocalypse.

Eclipse?

Zodd has lost both arms and Skully was surely able to finish him, but he had other business to do.

He just lost a single arm as far as we can see.

the sword of resonance

Can we get over this guys (and I mean everyone)? "Sword of Resonance" isn't a good term to label that weapon, it shouldn't be used. Call it a beherit sword or the Yobimizu no Tsurugi but "resonance" can't work.

Seeing how he has like more then likely 300+ years of battle experience.

Why just 300+ years? He's most likely lived for over a thousand years.

Anyway I don't think that fight will ever occur, but currently I would give SK the winner. I'm not going to presume of what it'd be in the future because Guts getting back in full health isn't happening anytime soon and once he does a lot of things might have changed or might be changing. Besides we don't know everything yet about the armor, and we know virtually nothing about SK.

Offline Feanor

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Nur dem Schwert kannst du vertrauen!
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2006, 04:37:27 PM »
I think the assumption that skully is better than zodd because zodd lost one of it's arms against skully and rickert said something like: "He was as good as zodd. No, he was better!", definitely holds. That Guts fully recovered is able to beat Grunbeld and Zodd is not for sure. But look what Guts did with the armors help.
Without it he could barely walk and with it he was an nearly equal opponent for grunbeld. It is perhaps not right to say that Zodd an Grunbeld are equal in strength but Zodd isn't far more powerful than grunbeld. They are in the same league, i think, and zodd is only a bit stronger, so i said they are equal in strength.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18428
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2006, 05:57:16 PM »
I think the assumption that skully is better than zodd because zodd lost one of it's arms against skully and rickert said something like: "He was as good as zodd. No, he was better!", definitely holds.

Yeah, but then again the last time they fought SK didn't cut any of his arms. I don't necessarily disagree with that but this one fight doesn't have to define the eventual outcome (assuming they'd fight to death in the future).

Without it he could barely walk and with it he was an nearly equal opponent for grunbeld.

Nearly an equal opponent? He gave him a small, superficial crack on the face and almost died in return, that's not what I call being nearly equal. If the fight hadn't been stopped, do you think Guts would have survived? I don't, personally. The armor helped him a lot, especially since Slan's wounds were preventing him from fighting even at half his potential, but that doesn't mean it made him as strong as Grunberd, Zodd, or SK. First the fact that the armor helped him so much while he was badly wounded doesn't mean it'll make him 10 times more powerful if he uses it while in good health, and it probably won't actually (at least it's unlikely considering what we know of it). Second, the fights in Berserk relate to a context and their outcome can change as the story evolves, there aren't fixed "power levels" that people can base themselves on to determine who's stronger. Third, we haven't really seen any of these characters besides Guts fight to their fullest, so it might be a bit presumptuous to assume there isn't more to them than what we know.

A good example of my second point would be Guts and Griffith's first encounter with Zodd in volume 5. Guts actually defeated him in a sword fight and stabbed him deep in the shoulder/arms, then Griffith cut one of his arms off while Guts slit his throat, after he had transformed... Basing ourselves on these facts, shouldn't we assume that Griffith was then as strong as SK during the Occultation, or not too far below him, and that Guts was then close to his own self in volume 22, when he defeated Zodd on the Hill of Swords? Written like this it would make sense, but we all know it's not true.

It is perhaps not right to say that Zodd an Grunbeld are equal in strength but Zodd isn't far more powerful than grunbeld.

How can you know? We haven't seen the limit of either of them, so once again while I'm not particularly inclined to disagree with your statement, nothing really backs it up.

In the end I'm sure Guts will one day be strong enough to defeat Zodd or Grunberd, but I don't think we can reasonably assume so much with our current knowledge (or lack thereof).

Offline CnC

  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 5076
  • Karma: 2
  • Gender: Male
  • Ad Oculos
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2006, 06:55:42 PM »
These types of debates don't really apply to the berserk world all that well, to begin with.

A person's "fighting level" or power isn't really that big a part of the story.  There are other mangas that do that sort of thing a lot more than this one.
I'm sick of following my dreams.  I'm just going to ask where they're going and hook up with 'em later...
- R.I.P Mitch Hedberg
CnColors!

Offline C. Walken

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 89
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • so I pranked him.. to death with a tire iron!
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2006, 03:15:44 AM »
It'd be interesting to see a dis-mounted SK fight Guts, I guess, but with mr magical horse I can see Guts getting his ass handed to him.

Speculation, of course, but a lot of this thread is.

Offline Smith

Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2006, 06:03:56 AM »
A speculation that I once thought off... But eventually called off that idea because it very unlikely to happen. The only way that i could really possible imagine SK fighting Guts, is when he become totally berserk (beyond even Schierke control or just happen Schierke wasn't around/severely injured)... And it happen that SK was there too and he decided to save the rest of the band from his slaughter (Now can roughly guess the probability of these happening? I say is less than 0.01%)


Should such event happen, I believe SK might fight him based on pure strength, I seriously doubt he would use his beherit sword because firstly, He wouldn't want Guts dead (Just sort of hold him off) and secondly we do not know if the Beherit sword has any more powerful impact on human that the original sword has (I presumed it is only effective against spiritual entities)


Anyway the best example to compare what Guts and SK is capable of doing would be in volume 25/26... Guts take quite an effort to take down one ogre... SK? 2 swings and 4 ogres perished... So if that is the level differences we are comparing, then even if SK challenge Guts (in his berserker mode based) purely on his swordskills alone, Guts wouldn't stand a chance. Lets not mentioned whether SK will even die in the first place...

Nearly an equal opponent? He gave him a small, superficial crack on the face and almost died in return, that's not what I call being nearly equal. If the fight hadn't been stopped, do you think Guts would have survived? I don't, personally. The armor helped him a lot, especially since Slan's wounds were preventing him from fighting even at half his potential, but that doesn't mean it made him as strong as Grunberd, Zodd, or SK. First the fact that the armor helped him so much while he was badly wounded doesn't mean it'll make him 10 times more powerful if he uses it while in good health, and it probably won't actually (at least it's unlikely considering what we know of it).



I do agree that Grunbeld is significantly much stronger than Guts, and even if Guts was at his best (full health and strength) with his berserker armor on, He wouldn't stand much of a chance of winning. But I don't really understand why using the berserker armor while in full health wont actually help much though...

It piss me off when I see weaklings, it make me want to crush them

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18428
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2006, 06:58:12 AM »
we do not know if the Beherit sword has any more powerful impact on human that the original sword has (I presumed it is only effective against spiritual entities)

Actually, we don't even know if the sword can really be used to fight someone and damage them. He's only used it to cut through the layers of the world till now, not to fight.

even if SK challenge Guts (in his berserker mode based) purely on his swordskills alone, Guts wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm not so sure about that. SK is very fast, that's his main advantage on Guts. That's different from swordsmanship itself.

I don't really understand why using the berserker armor while in full health wont actually help much though...

It's not that it won't help much, just that the difference in strength/power won't be as significant as what happened when a Guts that could barely walk donned it. The armor removes the user's pain and fear, so Guts could fight head-on despite being severely wounded at that time, that's what made the whole thing so spectacular. If he were to use it while in good health, he would still benefit from its enhancements but it wouldn't be proportional to the leap of power he went through at Flora's mansion. The armor's main feature is that as long as you wear it you can fight at your fullest even if you're dying, it doesn't just decuple its user's strength based on his current condition.

Offline Feanor

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Nur dem Schwert kannst du vertrauen!
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2006, 05:04:43 PM »
I think it is not the strength and intensity, that will change. It is the duration guts can fight in the armor before he bleeds to death!!! That's an important aspect too.
IMO guts have to fight against grunbeld for a very long time before he gets wounded as heavy as he was in the fight with slan(correct?). And this will simply make the difference. Even if it's just a feeling: I trust in Guts fighting abilities, willpower and intelligence and i say, if he is not handicapped from other fights and old wounds he will kick grunbeld's ass wearing the armor.  :chomp:
« Last Edit: May 20, 2006, 05:09:42 PM by Feanor »

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18428
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2006, 05:27:47 PM »
IMO guts have to fight against grunbeld for a very long time before he gets wounded as heavy as he was in the fight with slan(correct?).

Grunberd can't wound Guts like Slan did. She didn't just damage his body, his astral self was hurt too. That's why we call them astral wounds.

It is the duration guts can fight in the armor before he bleeds to death!!!

Well, if Grunberd breaks him an arm and a leg with just 2 hits like he did during their first fight it won't take too long. In terms of blood loss Slan's wounds weren't that big of a deal compared to the rest (it's really the astral part that counts).

Even if it's just a feeling: I trust in Guts fighting abilities, willpower and intelligence and i say, if he is not handicapped from other fights and old wounds he will kick grunbeld's ass wearing the armor.

Well, that's your opinion at least. :serpico: This is pretty much a useless point anyway as Guts will eventually triumph from Grunberd (assuming they'll ever fight again), like he'll triumph of all the others. The question should be: "would he win right now, or would he have won during his first fight if he had been in good health?" Anyway, no matter what happens I don't think he'll ever "kick his ass". If he defeats him it'll probably be after a hard fight and at the expense of something (where's the fun for the reader otherwise?).

Offline Feanor

  • Of the World
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Nur dem Schwert kannst du vertrauen!
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2006, 06:12:11 PM »
I watched Volume 26/27 again and i think you are right about the thing with the loss of blood. Guts had lost much more blood from the hits of grunbeld than from the wound of slan. And if an astral wound causes only extreme pain than the wound from slan wasn't a big handicap for guts. Schiercke said something like:
"Wounds to the ethereal body are wounds to the spirit... they cause extreme trauma and unbearable pain." The pain is something the armor could neutralise. But
what other kind of trauma causes the wound? I mean are there no other sideeffects than the pain?

I have used the search engine:
The wound triggers the armor and the beast...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2006, 06:21:21 PM by Feanor »

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18428
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2006, 06:21:00 PM »
what other kind of trauma causes the wound? I mean are there no other sideeffects than the pain?

Well they're wounds to his spirit, so they probably have repercussions that we don't know about (since we don't know anything about the way "spiritual bodies" work). It's pretty much implied that a normal man would have died from these wounds, and not because of blood loss. So besides constantly reopening the corresponding corporeal wounds, they damaged him on another level (and he was quite incapacitated, that should be enough to prove they're serious). The rest is only speculation for now (like how exactly these wounds interact with the armor), we have to assume we'll learn more about it once he gets some treatment in Elfhelm.

Offline Skullgrin140

Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2006, 07:54:05 PM »
Probably Skullknight would come on top, But somehow so will Guts

Offline SiLaT

Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2006, 01:29:22 PM »
skull knight'll win. guts DS can't beat a space-time slicing sword. remember, the skull knight was rumored to be the previous owner of  the berserker armor. he'll the its capabilities and *coughweaknesscough*  :badbone:

Offline Uriel

  • 天下無敵者
  • Of the Abyss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
  • Karma: 41
  • Gender: Male
  • This journey isn't ov--AARGH!
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2006, 02:04:47 PM »
More to the point, who would win: Guts or Sagara Sanosuke from Rurouni Kenshin?!?!?! :troll:

Offline Judo

  • Of the Interstice
  • **
  • Posts: 164
  • Karma: 4
  • Gender: Male
  • Midlands finest
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2006, 02:15:44 PM »

Rock Concert Manual #237:
Taking the audience to a jungian journey into the collective unconscious by using the shadow as a metaphor for the primal self that gets repressed by the modern persona... and also by using an underground setting and labyrinth office design to represent both: the depths of the psyche and the dungeon-like isolation of our increasingly mechanistic society which prevents people from finding satisfying work or meaningful connections with others.

Offline Aazealh

  • 髑髏の騎士
  • Administrator
  • Of Terror
  • *****
  • Posts: 18428
  • Karma: 631
  • Gender: Male
  • そうはいかぬ
Re: A fight between Skullknight and Guts
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2006, 02:38:35 PM »
Congratulations on getting the thread locked with this bullshit.