Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cured?
- Thread starter Smith
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Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
You're assuming quite a lot of the hanafubuku king that isn't really known.
The beast was present even when Guts didn't have the injury given by Slann. He's even lost control before then, so I don't think relating the beast's ability to take over and the injury is logical.
Smith said:
You're assuming quite a lot of the hanafubuku king that isn't really known.
Smith said:
The beast was present even when Guts didn't have the injury given by Slann. He's even lost control before then, so I don't think relating the beast's ability to take over and the injury is logical.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
I'm siding with CNC, there is no solid reason to assume his etheral wound and lack of control of the Armour are related.
That doesn't mean it isn't possible Hanafubuku will have something else to help Guts maintain control over the armour.
I'm siding with CNC, there is no solid reason to assume his etheral wound and lack of control of the Armour are related.
That doesn't mean it isn't possible Hanafubuku will have something else to help Guts maintain control over the armour.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
Like CnC said, you're assuming he'll cure it, which is possible but not certain.
There's no way the Beast of Darkness would disappear because of that. Maybe it be could suppressed in Elfhelm thanks to something else (Casca's presence or whatever else really), but not just in relation to this. The Beast appeared way before Guts was injured and found the armor so there's no use considering it.
Now maybe that would make the whole thing more stable and prevent him from succumbing to the armor by just hearing the word "Falcon" or fighting for 2 minutes, we'll see once we're there.
No reason except for all the shots showing the wound he received from Slan morphing into the Beast's eye and causing the transformation of the armor along with his loss of control over himself? Sounds like a pretty good reason to me.
Smith said:
Like CnC said, you're assuming he'll cure it, which is possible but not certain.
Smith said:
There's no way the Beast of Darkness would disappear because of that. Maybe it be could suppressed in Elfhelm thanks to something else (Casca's presence or whatever else really), but not just in relation to this. The Beast appeared way before Guts was injured and found the armor so there's no use considering it.
Now maybe that would make the whole thing more stable and prevent him from succumbing to the armor by just hearing the word "Falcon" or fighting for 2 minutes, we'll see once we're there.
Sparnage said:
No reason except for all the shots showing the wound he received from Slan morphing into the Beast's eye and causing the transformation of the armor along with his loss of control over himself? Sounds like a pretty good reason to me.
Saiki said:
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
It seems the only way to "supress" the beast at this point is to avoid fighting or not mention the "G" word
. I think its safe to say that the longer Guts fights the more opportunity the beast has to take over.
But even thats speculation, not fact. I think the only way to prove the effects of Elfhelm or the hanafubuku king are to wait until we get there.
It seems the only way to "supress" the beast at this point is to avoid fighting or not mention the "G" word
. I think its safe to say that the longer Guts fights the more opportunity the beast has to take over.But even thats speculation, not fact. I think the only way to prove the effects of Elfhelm or the hanafubuku king are to wait until we get there.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
Hehe yeah, pretty much. Although he seems to be getting better at holding it at bay, but that's not a serious way to solve the problem (and neither is merging with Schierke's spirit IMHO).
Yup, obviously, and the more rage/passion he displays the more it affects him too. He has to stay calm and cold but once again that's not much of a solution on the long-term.
PS: I changed your thread title Smith, it sucked.
CnC said:It seems the only way to "supress" the beast at this point is to avoid fighting or not mention the "G" word
Hehe yeah, pretty much. Although he seems to be getting better at holding it at bay, but that's not a serious way to solve the problem (and neither is merging with Schierke's spirit IMHO).
CnC said:
Yup, obviously, and the more rage/passion he displays the more it affects him too. He has to stay calm and cold but once again that's not much of a solution on the long-term.
PS: I changed your thread title Smith, it sucked.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
With the Beast having it's source in Guts' rage and other negative emotions, I'm not entirely sure that it would be tamed by healing physical wounds, or even "astral", such as the one inflicted by Slan. In order to get rid of it he would have to undergo a sort of psycho-therapy (used in a broad sense) IMHO. This is where things get tricky, cos' firstly, achieving such a thing is never easy (even when a "case" is far less complicated) and usually takes a long time. In addition, this rage etc. is the source of his strenght and the will to go on despite all odds, so in a way there is a possibility that getting to terms with the negative would weaken Guts. Of course it is also likely (and my personal preference) that a more "balanced" Guts would be a lot stronger, as it was sort of indicated by Godot and Flora.
With the Beast having it's source in Guts' rage and other negative emotions, I'm not entirely sure that it would be tamed by healing physical wounds, or even "astral", such as the one inflicted by Slan. In order to get rid of it he would have to undergo a sort of psycho-therapy (used in a broad sense) IMHO. This is where things get tricky, cos' firstly, achieving such a thing is never easy (even when a "case" is far less complicated) and usually takes a long time. In addition, this rage etc. is the source of his strenght and the will to go on despite all odds, so in a way there is a possibility that getting to terms with the negative would weaken Guts. Of course it is also likely (and my personal preference) that a more "balanced" Guts would be a lot stronger, as it was sort of indicated by Godot and Flora.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
I'm not really disagreeing with you here (it does embody Guts' rage, fear, hatred, etc), but I'd like to add that we don't really know much about the Beast of Darkness and how it came into existence, so that makes it hard if not impossible to guess what could affect "it" and what couldn't. For all we know, there might be an unknown factor playing an important role in the process that has yet to be revealed.
vlad said:
I'm not really disagreeing with you here (it does embody Guts' rage, fear, hatred, etc), but I'd like to add that we don't really know much about the Beast of Darkness and how it came into existence, so that makes it hard if not impossible to guess what could affect "it" and what couldn't. For all we know, there might be an unknown factor playing an important role in the process that has yet to be revealed.
S
Some Guy
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Well maybe if Casca ever becomes sane again it will have a very positive impact on Guts and (might) partially quell the beast. Casca's insane state has in the past caused him to remember the Eclipse and Griffith where she was last herself, and usually draw out the Beast of Darkness.
Also I'm wondering if Guts continues to wear that particular armor because the astral wound makes fighting to debilitating otherwise If the wound is healed, perhaps he won't need the berserker's armor anymore.
Also I'm wondering if Guts continues to wear that particular armor because the astral wound makes fighting to debilitating otherwise If the wound is healed, perhaps he won't need the berserker's armor anymore.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
Yep, that's plausible.
Well he did keep it on because he couldn't travel correctly without it at first, but after resting for a little while in Vritannis that might have changed a bit. Although not having any other armor didn't leave him much of a choice. And now that he's badly wounded again, I don't see him removing it anytime soon.
Puella had speculated about that when he first got it, but I don't think he'll just let it go. It's plausible but I believe he'll need a powerful equipment in the future, and the armor fills that role well enough for now.
Knight o' Skeleton said:
Yep, that's plausible.
Knight o' Skeleton said:
Well he did keep it on because he couldn't travel correctly without it at first, but after resting for a little while in Vritannis that might have changed a bit. Although not having any other armor didn't leave him much of a choice. And now that he's badly wounded again, I don't see him removing it anytime soon.
Knight o' Skeleton said:
Puella had speculated about that when he first got it, but I don't think he'll just let it go. It's plausible but I believe he'll need a powerful equipment in the future, and the armor fills that role well enough for now.
jackson_hurley
even the horses are cut in half!
couldn't the dwarves create an armor that is not cursed but as strong as that one! damn them! but seriously if guts is to get rid of the berserker armor he should at least find another strong armor or equipment as aaz said
perhaps the hanafubuku king will be able to break the curse on the armor but keeping the magic power that makes it a strong armor?! speculating here anyway! we'll see...
perhaps the hanafubuku king will be able to break the curse on the armor but keeping the magic power that makes it a strong armor?! speculating here anyway! we'll see...
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
Hmm I doubt that. Obviously that'd make the fights all too easy and uninteresting as opposed to Guts constantly struggling, but more importantly it's just not really possible. The armor's power itself is a curse, you can't have the good part without the bad one.
jackson_hurley said:
Hmm I doubt that. Obviously that'd make the fights all too easy and uninteresting as opposed to Guts constantly struggling, but more importantly it's just not really possible. The armor's power itself is a curse, you can't have the good part without the bad one.
jackson_hurley
even the horses are cut in half!
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
true! i didnt think about that! oh well i prefer guts struggling anyway! haha
Aazealh said:
true! i didnt think about that! oh well i prefer guts struggling anyway! haha
Rhombaad
Video Game Time Traveler
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
Holy shit...I never even noticed that before
! And I just re-read it recently, too...hmmmm... Well, at any rate, it makes me appreciate Miura's art even more than I already do. 
Aazealh said:
Holy shit...I never even noticed that before
! And I just re-read it recently, too...hmmmm... Well, at any rate, it makes me appreciate Miura's art even more than I already do.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
You came up with that all alone Smith? If once Guts' wounds are healed (plus some other unknown factors possibly applying) he's able to use the armor without losing control of himself, then obviously he won't need Schierke's help anymore (since she mostly helped him free himself of the armor's grasp till now).
That much isn't hard to guess, now whether it will effectively happen is another story. And anyway I don't think curing his wounds will allow them to completely circumvent the armor's bad "side effects". He'll still be losing his senses no matter what for example.
Smith said:
You came up with that all alone Smith? If once Guts' wounds are healed (plus some other unknown factors possibly applying) he's able to use the armor without losing control of himself, then obviously he won't need Schierke's help anymore (since she mostly helped him free himself of the armor's grasp till now).
That much isn't hard to guess, now whether it will effectively happen is another story. And anyway I don't think curing his wounds will allow them to completely circumvent the armor's bad "side effects". He'll still be losing his senses no matter what for example.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
You're not only assuming that the astral wound will be healed and its relationship to the beast (completely ignoring whats been said in this thread up to this point, mind you) but you're also completely ignoring the nature of the armor. It always acts to make you lose control, to keep fighting until theres nothing left of you. The previous owner died this way (and we don't know if (he) had an astral wound.
To have the hanafubuku king wave his/her/its hand and say, "not only is casca cured, I've cured all of your wounds and made the armor completely work against its nature". Thus super-guts is born and completely.... boring.
Smith said:
You're not only assuming that the astral wound will be healed and its relationship to the beast (completely ignoring whats been said in this thread up to this point, mind you) but you're also completely ignoring the nature of the armor. It always acts to make you lose control, to keep fighting until theres nothing left of you. The previous owner died this way (and we don't know if (he) had an astral wound.
To have the hanafubuku king wave his/her/its hand and say, "not only is casca cured, I've cured all of your wounds and made the armor completely work against its nature". Thus super-guts is born and completely.... boring.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
A word "should" (should his wound got cured, that what i left out) perhap have make a whole lot of differences... Nope I didnt assumed he will get cured, I just forget to add in that magic word...
Not to mentioned that it seem you are the one ignoring what I stated
Secondly in what way am I ignoring the nature of armour from my previous statement mentioning he is able to fight without the aid of Schierke?
It was the beast all along who caused him to go berserk, not just the armour. Afte reading what Aaz said,
I believe without the beast and the wound he *might* be able to fight like he did in recent episode with Daiba (this time round without Schierke help of course)
CnC said:
A word "should" (should his wound got cured, that what i left out) perhap have make a whole lot of differences... Nope I didnt assumed he will get cured, I just forget to add in that magic word...
Not to mentioned that it seem you are the one ignoring what I stated
Smith said:
Secondly in what way am I ignoring the nature of armour from my previous statement mentioning he is able to fight without the aid of Schierke?
It was the beast all along who caused him to go berserk, not just the armour. Afte reading what Aaz said,
Aazealh said:
I believe without the beast and the wound he *might* be able to fight like he did in recent episode with Daiba (this time round without Schierke help of course)
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
Don't jump to conclusions Smith, we don't know exactly how the astral wounds/Berserk's armor dynamic works. The wounds probably aggravate the effects of the armor's Od and make it very difficult for Guts to keep control over himself (more than it normally would be), but it's still the armor's doing in the first place. As for the Beast of Darkness... It's a part of Guts' psyche, so whether it activately tries to take control through the armor or is awaken/brought forth by it is impossible to tell right now (I'd say it's a bit of both). We should learn more about it once in Elfhelm.
During the fight with Daiba he was still half covered in armor fluid, so without Schierke he couldn't possibly fight like that. However, he might eventually be able to fight like he did when he awoke in volume 27 (just a matter of nuances here). Anyway and it has been said already, while his wounds might be cured and while this might help him with the armor, don't assume the Beast of Darkness will disappear so easily.
Smith said:
Don't jump to conclusions Smith, we don't know exactly how the astral wounds/Berserk's armor dynamic works. The wounds probably aggravate the effects of the armor's Od and make it very difficult for Guts to keep control over himself (more than it normally would be), but it's still the armor's doing in the first place. As for the Beast of Darkness... It's a part of Guts' psyche, so whether it activately tries to take control through the armor or is awaken/brought forth by it is impossible to tell right now (I'd say it's a bit of both). We should learn more about it once in Elfhelm.
Smith said:
During the fight with Daiba he was still half covered in armor fluid, so without Schierke he couldn't possibly fight like that. However, he might eventually be able to fight like he did when he awoke in volume 27 (just a matter of nuances here). Anyway and it has been said already, while his wounds might be cured and while this might help him with the armor, don't assume the Beast of Darkness will disappear so easily.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
Yeah, I always took it as symbolic for him not feeling the pain in his chest as he speaks about it, but yeah that would make sense.
Still seems like if it is healed the potential for the Beast to come out would still very much be there. As CNC said, the beast was there originally, and maybe i'm wrong in thinking this but according to Schierke (or at least what it sounded like) even people without an etheral wound or a personal Demon can still lose themselves to the armour.
Even with Flora's mark, how much control could he maintain if it healed? Can't be sure just yet, but it may not change much at all.
Aazealh said:
Yeah, I always took it as symbolic for him not feeling the pain in his chest as he speaks about it, but yeah that would make sense.
Still seems like if it is healed the potential for the Beast to come out would still very much be there. As CNC said, the beast was there originally, and maybe i'm wrong in thinking this but according to Schierke (or at least what it sounded like) even people without an etheral wound or a personal Demon can still lose themselves to the armour.
Even with Flora's mark, how much control could he maintain if it healed? Can't be sure just yet, but it may not change much at all.
Re: Will Guts ever give in to the Beast again once his astral wound will be cure
It's not that it would, it just does. And it's not like that's the only scene relating the two either.
It would still be there, of course. It's intrinsic to the armor. Very much? Now that's just your guess.
No, she doesn't say so. However we have no reason to believe that these wounds are a requirement for the user to lose himself into the armor's Od (same with having personified inner demons). Not a lot of people are astrally injured and from what we know everyone but Guts would just die from it. The difference here is that Guts can't fight or even get angry without being in danger of losing control of himself. The reaction is always completely disproportionate. Without his wounds he would probably be able to use it while staying sane longer, and to resist the urge to give in more easily too. It's not hard to guess that he'd only feel the need to give in to the Beast when badly wounded or blinded by a great rage, but not just about everytime he's irritated a bit. That goes along with the way the armor functions and its general philosophy (when you can't properly fight anymore because of fatigue or anything else your instincts take over while the armor keeps you fighting in spite of your physical injuries).
This process could be related to the bone "fixing" one. When the mind tires and can't handle the battle anymore the armor takes over so its user can keep fighting. In Guts' current situation it's like the armor starts piercing his bones whenever he gets a flesh wound. We could speculate that his wounds (he has 2: one on the chest and one on the back) increase the effect the armor's Od has on him because it can penetrate his spirit more easily through them or something like that.
Flora's mark only protects his soul from being destroyed by the armor's Od, it doesn't seem to be helping him controlling it. It's the reason Schierke has been able to bring him back to himself. Without it he'd just be a shell of a man with a hollow mind. That's why we assume that the astral wounds are playing an important role, because without Flora's help there's no way Guts could use the armor at all, it'd be like suicide and basically useless. He'd get it on, things go like in volume 26 and 27 but when Schierke goes into his mind she doesn't find his soul in front of the talisman and thus can't bring back what has been consumed by the flame of the armor's Od. He'd just be a crazy madman with no ego left. Or on the beach, Schierke couldn't have gotten him out of the "sea" (she does it through the talisman), etc. That's what Flora's talisman does, it's a lifeguard.
As for how much things will change once he's healed... Of course, we can't be sure of anything for now.
Sparnage said:
It's not that it would, it just does. And it's not like that's the only scene relating the two either.
Sparnage said:
It would still be there, of course. It's intrinsic to the armor. Very much? Now that's just your guess.
Sparnage said:
No, she doesn't say so. However we have no reason to believe that these wounds are a requirement for the user to lose himself into the armor's Od (same with having personified inner demons). Not a lot of people are astrally injured and from what we know everyone but Guts would just die from it. The difference here is that Guts can't fight or even get angry without being in danger of losing control of himself. The reaction is always completely disproportionate. Without his wounds he would probably be able to use it while staying sane longer, and to resist the urge to give in more easily too. It's not hard to guess that he'd only feel the need to give in to the Beast when badly wounded or blinded by a great rage, but not just about everytime he's irritated a bit. That goes along with the way the armor functions and its general philosophy (when you can't properly fight anymore because of fatigue or anything else your instincts take over while the armor keeps you fighting in spite of your physical injuries).
This process could be related to the bone "fixing" one. When the mind tires and can't handle the battle anymore the armor takes over so its user can keep fighting. In Guts' current situation it's like the armor starts piercing his bones whenever he gets a flesh wound. We could speculate that his wounds (he has 2: one on the chest and one on the back) increase the effect the armor's Od has on him because it can penetrate his spirit more easily through them or something like that.
Sparnage said:
Flora's mark only protects his soul from being destroyed by the armor's Od, it doesn't seem to be helping him controlling it. It's the reason Schierke has been able to bring him back to himself. Without it he'd just be a shell of a man with a hollow mind. That's why we assume that the astral wounds are playing an important role, because without Flora's help there's no way Guts could use the armor at all, it'd be like suicide and basically useless. He'd get it on, things go like in volume 26 and 27 but when Schierke goes into his mind she doesn't find his soul in front of the talisman and thus can't bring back what has been consumed by the flame of the armor's Od. He'd just be a crazy madman with no ego left. Or on the beach, Schierke couldn't have gotten him out of the "sea" (she does it through the talisman), etc. That's what Flora's talisman does, it's a lifeguard.
As for how much things will change once he's healed... Of course, we can't be sure of anything for now.