Author Topic: Question about the Beherit-Apostle  (Read 3466 times)

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Offline xfool

Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« on: December 25, 2006, 04:14:08 AM »
I dun quite understand how he can be an apostle(not exactly a pure one but he has apostle powers) without sacrificing anyone,did he make some kind of special deal with godhand?

btw if someone else have no one(eg. a hermit) to sacrifice,could they still become apostle with any sacrifice?

Offline vlad

Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2006, 04:55:29 AM »
Here's my take on the matter (which may be incorrect but we'll find out soon enough). His sacrifice was the whole world, he said it himself (wanting to be the egg of the perfect world), due to it's unusual nature the "ceremony" was sort of postponed to when the time was right for the Incarnation. So he did actually make a sacrifice only it was sort of delayed and he himself was consumed by his wish (which is what he wanted after all).
Hope I'm making sense and all, if not I'm sure someone will come along to correct me.
Cheers!

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2006, 09:19:22 AM »
His sacrifice was the whole world, he said it himself

To be exact, what he said is that he sacrificed the world around him. Which is why in volume 20, Guts sees a Brand formed by fire on the land, burning through the refugee camp.


Additionally, he was branded himself like you said, and he sports a Brand on his tongue.

I dun quite understand how he can be an apostle(not exactly a pure one but he has apostle powers)

The beherit-apostle is as pure as you get. He's very special, but he's still a real apostle and his powers were actually quite great. He found a beherit, met the God Hand, made a sacrifice, and became an apostle.

btw if someone else have no one(eg. a hermit) to sacrifice,could they still become apostle with any sacrifice?

You obligatorily need to sacrifice something in order to become an apostle. There's no way to bypass it. If someone had really nothing to sacrifice then it's unlikely that a beherit would come his way in the first place.

Offline xfool

Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2006, 02:03:11 PM »
To be exact, what he said is that he sacrificed the world around him. Which is why in volume 20, Guts sees a Brand formed by fire on the land, burning through the refugee camp.


Additionally, he was branded himself like you said, and he sports a Brand on his tongue.

The beherit-apostle is as pure as you get. He's very special, but he's still a real apostle and his powers were actually quite great. He found a beherit, met the God Hand, made a sacrifice, and became an apostle.

You obligatorily need to sacrifice something in order to become an apostle. There's no way to bypass it. If someone had really nothing to sacrifice then it's unlikely that a beherit would come his way in the first place.

thx for the reply, so does the world around him meant a lot to him?

I thought the sacrifice(s) must be someone he cared about but he does not know anyone at all isn't it?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2006, 03:01:59 PM »
thx for the reply, so does the world around him meant a lot to him?

It's all he had, all he knew. You should read what he says about it in the manga yourself if you can, it's really self-explanatory.

I thought the sacrifice(s) must be someone he cared about but he does not know anyone at all isn't it?

The sacrifice must be something (or usually someone) very precious to you. The technicalities of sacrificing ceremonies haven't really been explained beyond this.

Offline Donald Shimoda

Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2006, 02:30:41 AM »
It's all he had, all he knew. You should read what he says about it in the manga yourself if you can, it's really self-explanatory.

The sacrifice must be something (or usually someone) very precious to you. The technicalities of sacrificing ceremonies haven't really been explained beyond this.

So if a possession were very precious to you, you could sacrifice it to the God Hand and technially become an Apostle?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2006, 05:03:26 AM »
So if a possession were very precious to you, you could sacrifice it to the God Hand and technially become an Apostle?

Well, the contrary hasn't been formally stated in the manga, but somehow I doubt it. Even in the Beherit-Apostle's case people were kind of branded and then killed during a ceremony. It was very particular, but a Brand appeared on the land, many people died, and the apostle himself was Branded and therefore sacrificed. And still, that was an exception, a once-in-a-thousand-years event.

There's the case of Niko (from the DC game) that we can take into account, who for lack of a better explanation is half-jokingly thought to have sacrificed his dog. But that'd still be a living creature and not an inanimate object (and it could have been something else altogether anyway, like a human, we'll probably never know).

Offline Locus of Agony

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Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 08:04:50 PM »
Am I correct in assuming that wat the Godhand are after as their sacrifice is the one thing that defines your humanity?

The one thing that keeps you grounded in your world, to some degree, the one thing you couldn't live without?
Is that right or am I stretching things?

 With the Beherit Apostle (what is the difference between a disciple and apostle anyway?) who knew only pain and suffering on the outside, he would rather die then leave that earth, his only precious place. With the Count (and Balzac) it was his wife (and Daughter) who he would literally have slaughtered the entire human race for. Rochine had her parents, who embodied the only existance she could imagine.

Am I right in assuming that without these things, the human in question wouldn't be able to live as a human anyway?

Or is it more abstract? I mean Griffith sacrificed the entire band of the hawk not all of which meant much (arguably nothing) to him.
 
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Question about the Beherit-Apostle
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 08:29:02 PM »
Am I correct in assuming that wat the Godhand are after as their sacrifice is the one thing that defines your humanity?

What the God Hand requires as a sacrifice is "one of the most precious things" the apostle-to-be has. Be it his/her lover, parents, children, loyal soldiers, etc. It's as simple as that. I don't see the need to word it in such a convoluted way, and I don't think it particularly defines the concerned people's humanity.

(what is the difference between a disciple and apostle anyway?)

"Apostle" is how apostles are called in Berserk ("使徒" in Japanese), and "disciple" doesn't have any specific meaning. We usually refer to Mozgus' henchmen as disciples, though. If you're asking for the distinction in general then check a dictionary (In short, apostle: One sent forth; a messenger. Disciple: One who receives instruction from another; a scholar.)

Am I right in assuming that without these things, the human in question wouldn't be able to live as a human anyway?

Without what's most precious to them? If so no, you're not right. I'm pretty sure the Count could have lived without his wife had she died in a tragic accident. It's her betrayal that broke him. And the Beherit-Apostle couldn't go to the surface because people tried to kill him if he did, otherwise no doubt he would have been happy leaving his shitty place. I don't think you're viewing this the right way.

I mean Griffith sacrificed the entire band of the hawk not all of which meant much (arguably nothing) to him.

The Band of the Hawk meant a lot to Griffith, that's why he sacrificed them.