Griffith/Guts
- Thread starter Ashitaka
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Genn21
Guest
Re:Grifith/Gutts
;D
i was always able to point out why Griffith had such a unhappy plain face after a long night when dealing with Gutts but then again to say so id have to point out why general Gannon had the same smirk to him :-X
would it be sick to admit how much closer griffith kept men to him than woman he must have developed certain "hint" tendancies to "hint" types of seuxality
but after that being known no wonder corkus was always such a Sore o0oasso0o
;D
i was always able to point out why Griffith had such a unhappy plain face after a long night when dealing with Gutts but then again to say so id have to point out why general Gannon had the same smirk to him :-X
would it be sick to admit how much closer griffith kept men to him than woman he must have developed certain "hint" tendancies to "hint" types of seuxalitybut after that being known no wonder corkus was always such a Sore o0oasso0o
Uriel
This journey isn't ov--AARGH!
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Is it just me, or has nobody considered that Guts might infact love Griffith? I'm about about the emotional feelings side of love, not actually wanting to get a morgage kinda love. Because he's a bit of an idiot and not the quickest person in the world, he might of realised he has strong feelings for Griffith, or at least the old Griffith, after 3 years solitude of training on a mountain, eating cabbage stew.
Hate is driving Guts to go on, but there isn't much of a gap between love and hate.
Is it just me, or has nobody considered that Guts might infact love Griffith? I'm about about the emotional feelings side of love, not actually wanting to get a morgage kinda love. Because he's a bit of an idiot and not the quickest person in the world, he might of realised he has strong feelings for Griffith, or at least the old Griffith, after 3 years solitude of training on a mountain, eating cabbage stew.
Hate is driving Guts to go on, but there isn't much of a gap between love and hate.
Ashitaka
Don't really know english...
Re:Grifith/Gutts
That is true, but still, I can't imagine Guts having love for any man after what happened to him once... I think that the kind of "love" he has for Grith is much more closer to the love he had for Gambino.
Grith was just like a "father" for Guts, leading him, telling him what to do etc etc...
Gutzs said:
That is true, but still, I can't imagine Guts having love for any man after what happened to him once... I think that the kind of "love" he has for Grith is much more closer to the love he had for Gambino.
Grith was just like a "father" for Guts, leading him, telling him what to do etc etc...
T
temporary
Guest
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Nah, Griffith is much more like a piece of *$))( for gatsu. I'd say, Gatsu will break him in half!
Nah, Griffith is much more like a piece of *$))( for gatsu. I'd say, Gatsu will break him in half!
trapped_soul
"This is it. It's over."
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Love doesn't necessarily involve sex, you know.
I do believe that love between men can exist. And I do believe that Griffith loved Guts.
Sometimes relationships just aren't perfectly described with the word "friendship".
Nowadays some people do have a problem when using the term "love", because the meaning of the term itself was perverted.
-TS
P.S. Sup everyone?
Ashitaka said:
Love doesn't necessarily involve sex, you know.
I do believe that love between men can exist. And I do believe that Griffith loved Guts.
Sometimes relationships just aren't perfectly described with the word "friendship".
Nowadays some people do have a problem when using the term "love", because the meaning of the term itself was perverted.
-TS
P.S. Sup everyone?
P
psymont
Guest
Re:Grifith/Gutts
in german there is apparently 9 words for love, each refering to a different recipient .... ie: love for god, love for parents, love for brother, love for food, love for pets, etc....
in german there is apparently 9 words for love, each refering to a different recipient .... ie: love for god, love for parents, love for brother, love for food, love for pets, etc....
Lliugusamui
around the corner
Re:Grifith/Gutts
in french there is only one word ! ahah...
in french there is only one word ! ahah...
T
temporary
Guest
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Bah, I think there's a distinct difference between sex and love. Sex is the physical dodo whereby one gets a physical high from the arousement whereas love is the metaphysical flush of emotions and feelings that one experiences when one has an affection for another and gets feedback from the significant other... I don't know what I'm talking about. Hahahaha. I never fall in love
Bah, I think there's a distinct difference between sex and love. Sex is the physical dodo whereby one gets a physical high from the arousement whereas love is the metaphysical flush of emotions and feelings that one experiences when one has an affection for another and gets feedback from the significant other... I don't know what I'm talking about. Hahahaha. I never fall in love
Lliugusamui
around the corner
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Noooo !!
Whats this sign !!!?? please move it !!
Its too big first... ::)
Noooo !!
Whats this sign !!!?? please move it !!
Its too big first... ::)
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Although it is frequently implied that Griffith loves Gatts, I'm not sure it is ever explicitly stated, and therefore, along with the rest of the manga, I think it is open to interpretation (then again it could be dodgy translations). Besides which, the manga has been running for ages, and I think it is unlikely Miura (?) has been totally consistent and unwavering in how he wants the characters to feel. He could be changing his mind from one moment to the next for all we know. Personally, yes I do think a major theme is that Griffiths' feelings for Gatts caused his downfall and everything after, and the whole thing pivots on what they do/ don't feel for each other. But there's so much else happening I'm sure other people focus on those things and see their friendship as something in the background.
Although it is frequently implied that Griffith loves Gatts, I'm not sure it is ever explicitly stated, and therefore, along with the rest of the manga, I think it is open to interpretation (then again it could be dodgy translations). Besides which, the manga has been running for ages, and I think it is unlikely Miura (?) has been totally consistent and unwavering in how he wants the characters to feel. He could be changing his mind from one moment to the next for all we know. Personally, yes I do think a major theme is that Griffiths' feelings for Gatts caused his downfall and everything after, and the whole thing pivots on what they do/ don't feel for each other. But there's so much else happening I'm sure other people focus on those things and see their friendship as something in the background.
puella
Berserk forever
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Sometimes I wonder why we get to love one with the other sex. There may be millions of reasons.
I think even if one thinks sex much, he/she can love some other thing regardless of sex. I mean sex is just some important part of love and it doesn't fully explain what true love is.
I think Griffith has also sexual feeling for woman. but it doesn't stay long with him. He has, in a way, something very innocent and constant which is always in his mind. The feelings for desire and Guts which he can't resist. It's even foolishly honest.
But I'm not sure how reborn Griffith feel about Guts.
I think Guts is the same though he doesn't realize it yet.
He is often counfused with his ironic feeling for Griffith.
No doubt his love is Casca but could this be the same with one Griffith unresistibly has in his mind? I don't think so. They are quite different, IMO. Two types of love Guts has.
If Griffith gets to love a girl, his feeling for Guts won't be changed.
What would you call their feeling except love?
Sometimes I wonder why we get to love one with the other sex. There may be millions of reasons.
I think even if one thinks sex much, he/she can love some other thing regardless of sex. I mean sex is just some important part of love and it doesn't fully explain what true love is.
I think Griffith has also sexual feeling for woman. but it doesn't stay long with him. He has, in a way, something very innocent and constant which is always in his mind. The feelings for desire and Guts which he can't resist. It's even foolishly honest.
But I'm not sure how reborn Griffith feel about Guts.
I think Guts is the same though he doesn't realize it yet.
He is often counfused with his ironic feeling for Griffith.
No doubt his love is Casca but could this be the same with one Griffith unresistibly has in his mind? I don't think so. They are quite different, IMO. Two types of love Guts has.
If Griffith gets to love a girl, his feeling for Guts won't be changed.
What would you call their feeling except love?
Lliugusamui
around the corner
Re:Grifith/Gutts
I agree with your whole post, puella.
Remember in vol21 when Griffith is getting reappearing and Skully shows him to Guts ? First he is astonished by the presence of the silverhead. Then in vol22, he realizes that at that moment, he forgot to kill himl; I think it melts with what you said, darlin.
I agree with your whole post, puella.
Remember in vol21 when Griffith is getting reappearing and Skully shows him to Guts ? First he is astonished by the presence of the silverhead. Then in vol22, he realizes that at that moment, he forgot to kill himl; I think it melts with what you said, darlin.
P
psymont
Guest
Re:Grifith/Gutts
i think that guts just choked at that point .... or it could be griffiths new found ultimate charisma that made it hard to do anything but freeze in awe(just like mule who couldnt control his tears and his desire to pledge allegance to griffith) .... griffith's presence rating is off the charts, a reason why all those people(as well as apostles) flock to him .... griffith and zodd could have crushed guts on the hill of swords, but(despite what griffith says about feeling nothing for him) he spared him .... some may say so that caska wouldnt get hurt in the fight, but come on, guts could hyave been taken down without a mess .... griffith still cares, its in his genes
i think that guts just choked at that point .... or it could be griffiths new found ultimate charisma that made it hard to do anything but freeze in awe(just like mule who couldnt control his tears and his desire to pledge allegance to griffith) .... griffith's presence rating is off the charts, a reason why all those people(as well as apostles) flock to him .... griffith and zodd could have crushed guts on the hill of swords, but(despite what griffith says about feeling nothing for him) he spared him .... some may say so that caska wouldnt get hurt in the fight, but come on, guts could hyave been taken down without a mess .... griffith still cares, its in his genes
Re:Grifith/Gutts
I think Guts was stunned because it was the first time he had seen Griffith in that form since the day he left the Hawks.
In Guts's mind, he associated the terrible things Griffith did with either Griffith's crippled form or Femto. He never expected to see the Griffith he thought of as a friend again.
I think Guts was stunned because it was the first time he had seen Griffith in that form since the day he left the Hawks.
In Guts's mind, he associated the terrible things Griffith did with either Griffith's crippled form or Femto. He never expected to see the Griffith he thought of as a friend again.
roberto999
The Black Chick of Darkness
Re:Grifith/Gutts
There is another thing in the encounter on the hill of the swords : the drumming of Grifith' heart while Guts is battling Zod. That is not friendship nor brotherly love..
There is another thing in the encounter on the hill of the swords : the drumming of Grifith' heart while Guts is battling Zod. That is not friendship nor brotherly love..
typhonblue
Feminism--making the world safe for bigotry
Re:Grifith/Gutts
I'll chime in, since this is one of my favorite topics.
I think Griffith is in love with Gatts. This is why:
1. As he lies in the absolute darkness of defeat, Griffith says, "I thought Gatts was mine; when did he seize hold of me?" Since Gatts never did any literal siezing, I interpret this as Griffith lamenting the moment his feelings for Gatts seized him and became an over-riding force in his life. It's hard to accept this level of conflict over brotherly love. Imagine thinking these thoughts about your best friend or your mother?
2. Griffith's jealousy at Gatt's and Casca's relationship.
Now what does Gatts feel for Griffith? Whatever it is, it's damn strong. Note:
1. The Overheard Conversation: When Griffith says that none of the hawks are his friends because they don't have equally powerful dreams, Gatts makes his fateful decision to leave the Hawks to gain Griffith's affection/respect/whatever.
2. Griffith's Rescue: Caska is getting whingy about her feelings for Griffith and her jealousy of Charlotte. Gatts, understandably, gets a bit upset that she's still wrapped up by Griffith. But, at the same time, he says, "And what really hurts, is the part of me that thinks I can't do anything about it. Because the one who can't get Griffith out of his mind is me!"
3. The Eclipse: After Griffith decides to kack everyone, Gatts watches as the band of the Hawks are surrounded and attacked by demons. Remember that Casca in the midst of the carnage. Yet what does Gatts do? He turns around and tries to save Griffith.
4. Post-Eclipse: Revenge is a desire to make the other person acknowledge your pain. Gatt's monumental anger can only come from profound pain, and you can only be thatprofoundly hurt by someone you love. So Gatts leaves Casca to chase after Griffith and make the bastard feel his pain.
Sensing a pattern?
In no way do I think the above is catagorical proof Gatts wants Griffith sexually. In fact, I think that is irrelevant. What it means is that Gatts defines himself completely by Griffith.
I feel sorry for Casca. The two men she loves are both completely wrapped around eachother. It seems like she will never be as important to their identity/destiny as each other.
It also means Gatts has yet to become his own man. He needs a dream that doesn't involve Griffith, either helping him or killing him. Maybe Silke will help him find that dream.
I'll chime in, since this is one of my favorite topics.
I think Griffith is in love with Gatts. This is why:
1. As he lies in the absolute darkness of defeat, Griffith says, "I thought Gatts was mine; when did he seize hold of me?" Since Gatts never did any literal siezing, I interpret this as Griffith lamenting the moment his feelings for Gatts seized him and became an over-riding force in his life. It's hard to accept this level of conflict over brotherly love. Imagine thinking these thoughts about your best friend or your mother?
2. Griffith's jealousy at Gatt's and Casca's relationship.
Now what does Gatts feel for Griffith? Whatever it is, it's damn strong. Note:
1. The Overheard Conversation: When Griffith says that none of the hawks are his friends because they don't have equally powerful dreams, Gatts makes his fateful decision to leave the Hawks to gain Griffith's affection/respect/whatever.
2. Griffith's Rescue: Caska is getting whingy about her feelings for Griffith and her jealousy of Charlotte. Gatts, understandably, gets a bit upset that she's still wrapped up by Griffith. But, at the same time, he says, "And what really hurts, is the part of me that thinks I can't do anything about it. Because the one who can't get Griffith out of his mind is me!"
3. The Eclipse: After Griffith decides to kack everyone, Gatts watches as the band of the Hawks are surrounded and attacked by demons. Remember that Casca in the midst of the carnage. Yet what does Gatts do? He turns around and tries to save Griffith.
4. Post-Eclipse: Revenge is a desire to make the other person acknowledge your pain. Gatt's monumental anger can only come from profound pain, and you can only be thatprofoundly hurt by someone you love. So Gatts leaves Casca to chase after Griffith and make the bastard feel his pain.
Sensing a pattern?
In no way do I think the above is catagorical proof Gatts wants Griffith sexually. In fact, I think that is irrelevant. What it means is that Gatts defines himself completely by Griffith.
I feel sorry for Casca. The two men she loves are both completely wrapped around eachother. It seems like she will never be as important to their identity/destiny as each other.
It also means Gatts has yet to become his own man. He needs a dream that doesn't involve Griffith, either helping him or killing him. Maybe Silke will help him find that dream.
All_4_Yume
Yume Chaser
Re:Grifith/Gutts
Hmmm...I don't know. I think he meant Guts becoming more important than his dream and realizing he actually was his friend. It's not like Griffith had these thoughts in the prime of his life as it was pretty much downhill after the second duel. It's also questionable because I'm fairly sure Griffith wasn't use to having a lot of friends so when Guts comes along it throws him for a loop. I think Griffith is a sensitive guy at heart but he had to shut it off to achieve is dream (like Casca said) but in reality it is almost an impossible thing to do.
Was Griffith sane after a year of torture? I think it i was more a "seeing Guts happy thing."
It's respect. Guts was like practically everyone else in the Hawks in the fact that he admired Griffith. It's just cool to be respected by someone you admire.
That's because Guts is thinking about what Casca told him about the night they did it. Wouldn't it bother you a little bit if somebody told you that you singlehandedly caused a friend's downfall especially a person who you thought had all together?
Griffith was crippled. There was no way Griffith would have made it out alive without his help. However, more importantly this scene shows a distinct trait in Guts character: he's doesn't accept reality in extreme cases. Griffith sold him out but he doesn't wanna believe it just like he doesn't wanna beleive Gambino was a scumbag. Like the classic quote says "Human can only withstand so much reality."
How many people would opening accept having their friends killed and their woman being raped right in front of them? Revenge is just human nature especially if the mofo got off scott free.
I think Guts basically believes what Griffith believes when come to dreams.
I think she should get her own dream.
Griffith was the catalyst for his realization of wanting something for himself. He was living his dream but he didn't realize it until it was over. I don't know if it is fair to say that Guts has yet to become his own man because he wants revenge on Griffith and the Godhand. It's is his dream and that's all he can pretty much do with his life. His life is an ongoing mini Eclipse what's he gonna do? Get a 9 to 5? It's ride or die for Guts.
Hmmm...I don't know. I think he meant Guts becoming more important than his dream and realizing he actually was his friend. It's not like Griffith had these thoughts in the prime of his life as it was pretty much downhill after the second duel. It's also questionable because I'm fairly sure Griffith wasn't use to having a lot of friends so when Guts comes along it throws him for a loop. I think Griffith is a sensitive guy at heart but he had to shut it off to achieve is dream (like Casca said) but in reality it is almost an impossible thing to do.
Was Griffith sane after a year of torture? I think it i was more a "seeing Guts happy thing."
It's respect. Guts was like practically everyone else in the Hawks in the fact that he admired Griffith. It's just cool to be respected by someone you admire.
That's because Guts is thinking about what Casca told him about the night they did it. Wouldn't it bother you a little bit if somebody told you that you singlehandedly caused a friend's downfall especially a person who you thought had all together?
Griffith was crippled. There was no way Griffith would have made it out alive without his help. However, more importantly this scene shows a distinct trait in Guts character: he's doesn't accept reality in extreme cases. Griffith sold him out but he doesn't wanna believe it just like he doesn't wanna beleive Gambino was a scumbag. Like the classic quote says "Human can only withstand so much reality."
How many people would opening accept having their friends killed and their woman being raped right in front of them? Revenge is just human nature especially if the mofo got off scott free.
I think Guts basically believes what Griffith believes when come to dreams.
I think she should get her own dream.
Griffith was the catalyst for his realization of wanting something for himself. He was living his dream but he didn't realize it until it was over. I don't know if it is fair to say that Guts has yet to become his own man because he wants revenge on Griffith and the Godhand. It's is his dream and that's all he can pretty much do with his life. His life is an ongoing mini Eclipse what's he gonna do? Get a 9 to 5? It's ride or die for Guts.
Re:Grifith/Gutts
I wouldn't say it was "possible" at all. He was shattered beyond any possibility of returning to what he was; without a tongue, unable to walk let alone wield a sword, etc. Yet in that dream he stated that the "tranquility" was "nice." It was only upon seeing a beherit in his soup and rudely awakening to reality, realizing what couldn't be, that drove him to attempt suicide. But that wasn't what I was even implying, I was saying that imagining that kind of life to begin with and finding it not unpleasant probably shows that he's not IN love with Guts, considering he imagined having a normal family with Caska. Now that he's in Guts' son's body you would think this idea to be even more unlikely now if it was ever true in the first place.
I wouldn't say it was "possible" at all. He was shattered beyond any possibility of returning to what he was; without a tongue, unable to walk let alone wield a sword, etc. Yet in that dream he stated that the "tranquility" was "nice." It was only upon seeing a beherit in his soup and rudely awakening to reality, realizing what couldn't be, that drove him to attempt suicide. But that wasn't what I was even implying, I was saying that imagining that kind of life to begin with and finding it not unpleasant probably shows that he's not IN love with Guts, considering he imagined having a normal family with Caska. Now that he's in Guts' son's body you would think this idea to be even more unlikely now if it was ever true in the first place.