Author Topic: Episode 319  (Read 43708 times)

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Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #100 on: April 08, 2011, 03:45:52 PM »
I'm going to love watching Guts kill it.  :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #101 on: April 08, 2011, 08:10:35 PM »
Picture post! :ubik:

Encountering a member of the God Hand inside the Sea God? That would be somewhat unexpected. That being said, I do expect to see some very interesting things inside that monster.


Ah, OK then. Actually he reminds me of the first time we saw a Makara. I was quite impressed by the thing at the time.

Co-sign, in its first appearance in episode 240 the Makara might have been the scariest-lookin' monster Guts ever faced, I think I was actually worried for him:



Damn thing could have been Ganishka himself! :ganishka:

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #102 on: April 08, 2011, 08:59:59 PM »
What a great episode! It's so nice to have Berserk back again. I can't wait to read the translation.

I noticed while reading the episode that Guts' encounter with the Sea God kind of parallels Griffith's encounter with Ganishka. Both opponents are monstrous in size and strength, and appear impossible to overcome. Griffith was able to conquer Ganishka without using any brute strength or his powers resulting from being a member of the God Hand (aside from the reaction of apostles to members of the GH, which appears to be innate), but because he was meant to defeat Ganishka and bring out the merging of the Worlds. It was all set up through causality by the Idea of Evil, while on the other hand, Guts is going to conquer (it's safe to assume he's not going to be killed by the Sea God) his monstrous opponent using his own strength (whether or not his strength is brought out by the armor is irrelevant; it's still his), much like he's been doing all his life.

I just thought this was interesting and reminded me in a way of the parallel between Guts' and Griffith's "methods" of charisma. Griffith forces (not really the right word, but I couldn't think of a better way to describe it) his charisma on others in order to bend them to his will/unite them to his cause, whereas Guts unconsciously draws people to his side (whether he wants to or not) and continues to do so to this day.

I just enjoy this subtle black and white relationship between Guts and Griffith, two people who are so different in their methods and personalities.

I know this isn't some historic revelation, but I thought I'd share what I was thinking and see if anyone else had something to add or if they disagreed with my train of thought.

Offline Vampire_Hunter_Bob

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #103 on: April 08, 2011, 09:40:26 PM »
Griffith seduces others in order to bend them to his will/unite them to his cause, whereas Guts unconsciously draws people to his side (whether he wants to or not) and continues to do so to this day.
That is probably the best word I can think about.

Quote
I just enjoy this subtle black and white relationship between Guts and Griffith, two people who are so different in their methods and personalities.

I know this isn't some historic revelation, but I thought I'd share what I was thinking and see if anyone else had something to add or if they disagreed with my train of thought.
Griffith is such a good foil to Guts, and I'm glad you pointed this out because honestly I wasn't thinking about the contrasts between Guts and Griffith. This is one of the many things I love about Berserk. Miura doesn't give us half-asses material, instead he gives us a high quality storytelling.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 10:03:23 PM by Vampire_Hunter_Bob »

Offline Gobolatula

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #104 on: April 08, 2011, 09:50:00 PM »
I just thought this was interesting and reminded me in a way of the parallel between Guts' and Griffith's "methods" of charisma. Griffith forces (not really the right word, but I couldn't think of a better way to describe it) his charisma on others in order to bend them to his will/unite them to his cause, whereas Guts unconsciously draws people to his side (whether he wants to or not) and continues to do so to this day.
Good eye, brother.

Another thing is, both Guts and Griffith are both inches away from their goals at this point. It's interesting to see that their lives are kind of parallel in that way, time wise. Both fighting giant monsters to get to where they wanna be.

Offline Rhombaad

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #105 on: April 08, 2011, 10:02:56 PM »
Good eye, brother.

Hehe, I wish I could take credit for that observation, but I believe someone brought it up a long time ago elsewhere on the forum.

Another thing is, both Guts and Griffith are both inches away from their goals at this point. It's interesting to see that their lives are kind of parallel in that way, time wise. Both fighting giant monsters to get to where they wanna be.

I hadn't thought about it in terms of goals, but your absolutely right. The Sea God is (at least for the moment) all that stands in Guts' way of reaching Elfhelm.

Offline ZODDOII

Re: Episode 319
« Reply #106 on: April 09, 2011, 03:50:49 AM »
Wow,big monster big mouth :isidro: :ganishka:

This mouth maybe like black hole or someting( Mass Relays) :void: guts will  time travel or space travel  :guts: :judo:

Offline puella

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #107 on: April 09, 2011, 12:58:39 PM »
I imagine that the power of the spirits on the island can be unsealed while the Sea God has a "stomachache" caused by Guts. Then Schierke might be able to borrow their power so that they can finish off the Sea God. Or merrows also appear... Otherwise, the Sea God is too enormous for Guts to completely destroy, I think.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #108 on: April 09, 2011, 03:22:45 PM »

No one posted about it, but yesterday the official twitter account showed off a picture of the YA supplement containing the 4 previous episodes and featuring a previously-seen color illustration on its cover.

I noticed while reading the episode that Guts' encounter with the Sea God kind of parallels Griffith's encounter with Ganishka. Both opponents are monstrous in size and strength, and appear impossible to overcome. Griffith was able to conquer Ganishka without using any brute strength or his powers resulting from being a member of the God Hand (aside from the reaction of apostles to members of the GH, which appears to be innate), but because he was meant to defeat Ganishka and bring out the merging of the Worlds.

I'm not sure we can say that Femto didn't use his powers. He just didn't use brute strength. Nor, given the circumstances, would I say that he defeated Ganishka so much as he used him for his intended purpose (that of merging the worlds together).

Offline berserkfan

Re: Episode 319
« Reply #109 on: April 11, 2011, 06:58:42 AM »
Not many people will agree, but I honestly think Guts is going to encounter a member of the God hand within the sea god. Here are my reasons as to why:

1) bleeding of the brand-At first thought, it could be because of the presence of the sea God, but if there is a member of the God hand in it, the brand could also be reacting just as strongly to the member considering the fact that the God hand are more powerful then any monster/apostle, including the sea God.
2) Comparing it with the Qliphoth: last time slan managed to manifest there, so theres a good chance there might a be a manifestation of a different god hand member within the sea God
3) I highly believe it'll be Ubik, reason being if you look at the previous episode that detailed the merging of the worlds and the God hand, Ubik was pictured having tea and there being statues all around him. The same statues that look just like the one that guts and schierke find.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2011, 12:24:44 PM »
You're right, I don't agree with you, not because I think it's so unlikely a member of God Hand could show up here, and I even think your speculation about Ubik living inside the Sea God has a crazy appeal that fits him, but because your arguments are so arbitrary:

1) Or it's just the Sea God.
2) A member of the God Hand could possibly show up anywhere now, or not, we don't know. In any case, not a great reason to say one will with confidence.
3) Those aren't statues, and they're nothing like the seal holding the Sea God.

The second point is the best by default, the place was compared to Qliphoth, and it was Qliphoth in which Slan appeared, but we'll see if that means a member of God Hand is going to show up every time Guts is in such a place (I wouldn't mind). Though, I would say the best arguments for a member of God Hand appearing here are literary, such as exposing Schierke to one before they reach Elfhelm, etc. As for a member of God Hand actually showing up, the point has already been made more convincingly:

http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=12507.0

:griffnotevil:

Offline Draculoid

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2011, 05:30:20 PM »
If a God Hand WAS to show up i guess it would be Conrad....just because he seems lower in their hierarchy so more likely to appear earlier on and also seemed to be shown in relation to the plague/infection in the same way i feel the Sea God may be infected.

We already saw Slan recently...this seems too out of place for Ubik, i imagine him being in some sort of "trippy" encounter/ location. Void will be closer to the end.
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2011, 05:49:07 PM »
If a God Hand WAS to show up i guess it would be Conrad....just because he seems lower in their hierarchy so more likely to appear earlier on and also seemed to be shown in relation to the plague/infection in the same way i feel the Sea God may be infected
What hierarchy?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2011, 05:52:52 PM »
If a God Hand WAS to show up i guess it would be Conrad....just because he seems lower in their hierarchy so more likely to appear earlier on

There is no official hierarchy that we know of, but if you're going by their order of appearance at the Eclipse ceremony, Conrad appears second to last, before only Void himself, and he's arguably the only other member to perform rites by raising the alter (though Slan and Ubik obviously participate as well). When we see them during the Fantansia episode, the order of Conrad's and Ubik's appearance are reversed though, which means... absolutely nothing, like I said.

and also seemed to be shown in relation to the plague/infection in the same way i feel the Sea God may be infected.

Streeeeeetch! C'mon guys, if you're going to make false equivalencies, don't set them up like a reasoned argument is coming.

We already saw Slan recently...this seems too out of place for Ubik, i imagine him being in some sort of "trippy" encounter/ location.

But it's appropriate for Conrad because of his association with rats, the plague, and urban death? I don't even know that any of that matters (Qliphoth wasn't especially Slannish, save for the fornicating Trolls, but trippy enough), and this whole thing seems "pretty trippy" to me anyway: a pirate ship, that are tentacles, that are people, that are giant slugs, that are bigger tentacles, that are the beard of what I'm going to safely assume is the biggest mouth in the world.:ubik:

BTW, fun answer if you ever encounter a question about the origins of the plague on a History test. A: Conrad.

Void will be closer to the end.

Ya think? :void:

Offline Draculoid

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2011, 06:39:02 PM »
You think Conrad being related to plague/infection is a stretch? The only times we have seen him manifest himself in the physical world has been through plague rats....all I'm saying is IF its a god hand infection in the sea god it might be him due to that, do you have any better justification for it being any of the other members?

I realize there is no real hierarchy, guess that was a stretch on my part...i always see Conrad and Ubik as less powerful followed by Slan and then Void for no real good reason.

By "trippy" i meant more of a mind game like set up, also more crazy surreal looking enemies like the ones shown in his Fantasia manifestation.
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Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2011, 06:45:52 PM »
You think Conrad being related to plague/infection is a stretch? The only times we have seen him manifest himself in the physical world has been through plague rats....all I'm saying is IF its a god hand infection in the sea god it might be him due to that, do you have any better justification for it being any of the other members?

And where are the rats here? What's the connexion to disease? What's this "God Hand infection" you're talking about? Nothing you say makes any sense.

Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2011, 06:51:58 PM »
You think Conrad being related to plague/infection is a stretch? The only times we have seen him manifest himself in the physical world has been through plague rats....

No, I'm pointing out that that has little to do with the sea. =)

all I'm saying is IF its a god hand infection in the sea god it might be him due to that, do you have any better justification for it being any of the other members?

There's nothing to indicate an infection of any kind.

I realize there is no real hierarchy, guess that was a stretch on my part...i always see Conrad and Ubik as less powerful followed by Slan and then Void for no real good reason.

You bias based on height! :puck:

By "trippy" i meant more of a mind game like set up, also more crazy surreal looking enemies like the ones shown in his Fantasia manifestation.

Yeah, but I don't think it really matters. Qliphoth was a lot like that, and no Ubik there.

Offline Draculoid

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #117 on: April 11, 2011, 06:57:41 PM »
oh i definitely agree with it being a stretch. It would be highly random and I don't think the plague rats do relate to the sea god/sea/ the island really...I'm just trying to get my head around the idea of there being a God Hand present and trying to find justification for it or who it might be...IF there is one, not saying i believe there is one for sure. It is far too early and pretty impossible to speculate based on what we have.
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Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #118 on: April 11, 2011, 09:21:44 PM »
I raised the idea in December of Conrad being the sea monster based mainly on the image of the brand and the amount of blood, which struck me as remarkably similar to the Guts' encounter with Slan.  :slan:
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #119 on: April 11, 2011, 09:42:13 PM »
I raised the idea in December of Conrad being the sea monster based mainly on the image of the brand and the amount of blood, which struck me as remarkably similar to the Guts' encounter with Slan.  :slan:

And, as far as anyone can see, you were absolutely wrong. Congratulations! :ubik:

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #120 on: April 11, 2011, 09:48:42 PM »
I raised the idea in December of Conrad being the sea monster based mainly on the image of the brand and the amount of blood, which struck me as remarkably similar to the Guts' encounter with Slan.  :slan:
Remarkably similar? I think that's exaggerating the reality. If you really want to see something comparable, how about this?

Volume 15 (Rosine)Episode 318 (Sea God)


I'll reiterate that I think it's poor reasoning to try to quantify just how evil an entity is based on something as unreliable as a panel showing blood expungement. But for convenience sake, here's an assortment of scenes from when the brand reacted to the presence of members of the God Hand.


Volume 3 (All God Hand)


Volume 22 (Griffith)


Volume 26 (Slan)

When a God Hand is around, there have been other indications evident in Guts. In Vol 26, Guts reacted violently to sensing Slan's approach -- it put him into a panic, and in Vol 3 when the God Hand came in close proximity he doubled over in pain. In ep 318, Guts merely comments on noticing that the brand is bleeding. He's not freaking out.

Furthermore, remember that Schierke also commented on Slan's appearance in Vol 26, pretty much as soon as she arrived. She felt it like a freight train. Schierke has made no such comment yet.

So how about we can the blind speculation until there's something more reliable to base ideas on?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #121 on: April 11, 2011, 10:11:31 PM »
Schierke made the comment that the sea god's power is immense, and that fighting such a creature is beyond hope.

And Guts reaction CAN change. His first encounter with Zod was different than, say, the snail count.
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Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #122 on: April 11, 2011, 10:25:35 PM »
Schierke made the comment that the sea god's power is immense, and that fighting such a creature is beyond hope.
You're missing my point. Look at volume 26. She sensed Slan's presence. It was like a huge wash of chaos over her at the time. There's been nothing like that on the island.

Quote
And Guts reaction CAN change. His first encounter with Zod was different than, say, the snail count.
So then your argument is that Guts is aware that it's a God Hand, but is keeping it secret for now?
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline creampuff_war

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #123 on: April 11, 2011, 10:33:40 PM »
So then your argument is that Guts is aware that it's a God Hand, but is keeping it secret for now?

not at all, although that's possible. The same sensations he felt during Slan's encounter need not exist in order for a God Hand to be present...I think. Maybe not though.

Schierke's lack of being engulfed by a wave of chaos this time could be b/c of her physical presence not being in the actual area. She is out of body, holding on to Guts this time. Guts is also wearing the Berserk armor this time, wrapped in it with Schierke.
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Offline Griffith

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Re: Episode 319
« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2011, 12:27:44 AM »
not at all, although that's possible.

Possible like it's possible Guts is an elf and Zodd is his father, though I don't even think it's that possible. Even if Guts could hide his thoughts from someone he's currently sharing a form of consciousness with, as dubious a proposition as any motive he might have to do so (none), Guts doesn't very well hide his important thoughts from the audience, "I better not think about the God Hand I know is in here, it'll be a spoiler, and I don't want to ruin their awesome speculations!" If he's not thinking about sensing a member of the God Hand, he's not sensing one.

Schierke's lack of being engulfed by a wave of chaos this time could be b/c of her physical presence not being in the actual area. She is out of body, holding on to Guts this time. Guts is also wearing the Berserk armor this time, wrapped in it with Schierke.

Her physical presence is probably the least important factor to her sensing or feeling the effects of powerful spiritual energy like that. As a matter of fact, minus a physical form she's more susceptible to such energy, as she mentioned in volume 22 when spying on Griffith, using a bird as her physical anchor so she wouldn't get lost in his power. Her presence in and of the armor doesn't make a difference either, as we saw the first time they did this; she had no difficulty sensing and assessing the spiritual power of the Kundalini, for example.

Anyway, I'm all for creative speculation, but it should usually be going with established precedents, not against them. If one finds themselves having to speculate more and more to get around the facts instead of the facts falling into place, it's a good indicator that it's not a theory worth pursuing and an alternative thesis is in order.