Author Topic: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm  (Read 8674 times)

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Offline Drizzle84

What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« on: February 26, 2012, 12:09:07 AM »
Hi. Thanks for approving me, since I browsed these boards a couple months back I've been dying to post with people so interested in discussing the story line, so thanks for the approval.

I'll try and be short with this. I'm very interested to hear what other have to say. So Elfhlem, the place that's taken 10 years to get in sight of for those like me who've been Berserk fans for years..
Firstly, Casca. She's essentially the reason for the trip, I would expect her to be healed as I can not think of any foreshadowing that SK ever gave Guts that lead him astray. What will she do? I think she wil want to follow Griffith. Would this even be possible for a branded one? She can't even get close to him without blood spurting out her neck so I am truly interested to see where our author goes with this. Inevitably, I believe she will break Guts heart. Subconsciously, she is memorized by the old Griffith, like how she touched his face and started crying in probably chapter 3 of V22 when Griffith, or maybe the child that was at one point inside Griffith... prompted him to protect Casca. I don't see her joining the revenge band wagon I'll state that much.

The child... first of all, what the hell is he? Well I think we'd probably all agree that he is Guts and Casca's child turned evil by Griffith's demonic seed... then it becomes cloudy. We know he was in the egg that gave birth to Griffith, and that at the very least he and Griffith share each other's blood. I know there are people out there who think that the child and Griffith are one being, I don't think so personally but I could be persuaded to listen to that argument. I'm sure you all noticed in 327 how the child in his astral form is starting to have hair strongly resembling Griffith? I think after V22, the child split off from Griffith somehow, we have not seen any more inner Griffith thoughts about the subject since the volume right after his 'incarnation.' And we have seen what has to be the child several times, I am assuming he drifts around in his astral form and follows Guts/Casca. The thing that gets me about the child is that we know he is demonic, but aside from him sucking the blood out of Casca's brand the moment he was born, we haven't seen him do a single malicious thing. Even before the incarnation.. if he hadn't gone to Guts to warn him about Casca being burned at the stake as an infant I would even make the argument that any remaining good within Griffith was cast out with the child when the incarnation occured or shortly after. I do believe they separated at some point still though. Could we see the child and Guts get closer only for Guts to find out that he is still truly a demon? On top of the heartbreak that Casca is soon (imo) likely to inflict? Idk.. I could rant forever so I'm going to leave it to you all to comment and elaborate.

There's just so much that could happen once they reach Elfhelm, but as for Casca I think SK was on point when he told Guts what he wants may not be what she wants. After all, her dream is to be Griffith's sword. If anyone, besides Charlotte... would sympathize with Griffith (knowing well what he did) it'd be her, even after the eclipse.
If you long for one thing for so long it\'s a given that you\'ll miss other things along the way, that\'s how it is... that\'s how it is... that's life.

Offline Chaos

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2012, 12:45:42 AM »
Welcome to the boards!

I don't quite know if I've been here long enough to say so, but here goes:

All the points you brought up have been discussed numerous time before, so, if you haven't, I'd recommend you use the search feature to take a look at some older posts about things you have brought up.

All I'll say on the issue is I'm really excited to see what happens once we get there. I've yet to be disappointed in how the story has developed, so I'm sure I'll be happy with "Elfhell"  :troll:

I wasn't here

Offline Walter

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2012, 03:12:05 AM »
Hi. Thanks for approving me, since I browsed these boards a couple months back I've been dying to post with people so interested in discussing the story line, so thanks for the approval.
Sure, the  more the merrier. We mostly just wanted to make sure you weren't a robot.  :SK:

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What will she do? I think she wil want to follow Griffith.
Really? Even after he killed all of her companions, raped her and tainted her womb? Why? I find that extremely hard to believe, particularly since Griffith's sway over Casca was already beginning to wane before the eclipse. Her pledge that she would stay by Griffith's side was something out of pity and remorse more than it was devotion. And that's BEFORE he had her friends killed and then raped her. So... yeah. Not buying it.

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Subconsciously, she is memorized by the old Griffith, like how she touched his face and started crying in probably chapter 3 of V22 when Griffith,
She may have sensed her child, she may have even recognized his face, but she's crying because the brand is causing her intense pain.

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or maybe the child that was at one point inside Griffith...
What? Griffith's flesh is composed of the child. The kid isn't some kind of kidney stone inside Griffith.

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We know he was in the egg that gave birth to Griffith, and that at the very least he and Griffith share each other's blood.
You can see the kid slowly growing and becoming Griffith in volume 21, on the page right before the Egg Apostle cracks. This stuff isn't really in question.

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I know there are people out there who think that the child and Griffith are one being, I don't think so personally but I could be persuaded to listen to that argument.
There's no reason for an argument. Be persuaded by the  manga, as I've stated just above.

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I think after V22, the child split off from Griffith somehow,
What makes you think that happened, without there being any indication in the series that the two split? You think something like that would just happen "off camera" so to speak?

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And we have seen what has to be the child several times, I am assuming he drifts around in his astral form and follows Guts/Casca.
We've seen the child several times _on full moons_.

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we haven't seen him do a single malicious thing. Even before the incarnation.. if he hadn't gone to Guts to warn him about Casca being burned at the stake as an infant I would even make the argument that any remaining good within Griffith was cast out with the child when the incarnation occured or shortly after.
You're making this scenario far more confusing than it needs to be. The kid took an evil form because as a fetus, Casca's womb was tainted by Femto. But he's still a good kid at heart who yearns for his parents, and goes to them when he's able to.

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Could we see the child and Guts get closer only for Guts to find out that he is still truly a demon?
Do you really think Guts would try to stomp him again, at this point? He's already remembering the kid fondly, or at the very least, not menacingly, in volume 28.


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There's just so much that could happen once they reach Elfhelm, but as for Casca I think SK was on point when he told Guts what he wants may not be what she wants. After all, her dream is to be Griffith's sword. If anyone, besides Charlotte... would sympathize with Griffith (knowing well what he did) it'd be her, even after the eclipse.
No, that was the old Casca. That form started to crack once she and Guts began to become closer. See the end of volume 8 for a lovely illustration on this change, as Judo considers it himself.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2012, 10:49:50 AM »
What will she do? I think she wil want to follow Griffith.

Why would she want that after what he did to her, to her child, to her lover and to her friends?

Would this even be possible for a branded one? She can't even get close to him without blood spurting out her neck so I am truly interested to see where our author goes with this.

No, it's not really possible. Which is another clue out of many that it's not going to happen. Also, Casca's not branded on the neck.

Subconsciously, she is memorized by the old Griffith, like how she touched his face and started crying in probably chapter 3 of V22 when Griffith, or maybe the child that was at one point inside Griffith... prompted him to protect Casca.

In volume 22 (episodes 180 & 181) Casca felt and saw her child there, not Griffith. Lest you forgot, she has no recollection of her past in her current state. She doesn't remember anyone. And it's definitely the boy who protected her, much like the boy felt for Guts, his father, when he saw him fight against Zodd.

We know he was in the egg that gave birth to Griffith, and that at the very least he and Griffith share each other's blood.

Femto incarnated himself into a new Griffith by taking over the child's body.

I think after V22, the child split off from Griffith somehow

Why would the child's astral form then bear a resemblance to Griffith (both in terms of power and looks) while he himself looks like his parents?

And we have seen what has to be the child several times

He's appeared twice so far.

The thing that gets me about the child is that we know he is demonic, but aside from him sucking the blood out of Casca's brand the moment he was born, we haven't seen him do a single malicious thing.

It's more complicated than that. Like Walter said, the boy was corrupted by Femto while he was still developing in his mother's womb, and that's why he was born the way he was. But despite that taint, he wasn't all that bad. He haunted his father, but never really malevolently, and cared after his mother. Futhermore, after the Incarnation and given what the Beherit-Apostle had wished for as well as what Femto did (taking over his body), we can't be sure of the boy's state anymore. But we do know that he no longer makes the Brand bleed and that he looks "normal" now.

I would even make the argument that any remaining good within Griffith was cast out with the child when the incarnation occured or shortly after.

Femto was born as a being of "pure evil". Nothing changed in that regard when he acquired a new corporeal body as far as we know. If the boy still exists within him, then he can provide a countermeasure of good, but they'd still be two different beings in one body.

There's just so much that could happen once they reach Elfhelm, but as for Casca I think SK was on point when he told Guts what he wants may not be what she wants.

That sentence can be interpreted several different ways. For example, that she simply might not want to embark on a quest for revenge like he does. And by the way, Casca doesn't have to like Griffith in order to not want for him to die. And Guts himself could come to have very mixed feelings on that as well. How so, you ask? Well it's simple: if killing Griffith means killing their son, because the two are linked.

Offline JezzaX

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 11:19:35 AM »
Just to go on the speculation that Casca could want to follow Griffith. I wouldn't have ruled it out entirely if her natural state was to return, that she may have blocked a lot of negative things out of her mind and she may be reverted back to when things were going well for the Falcons. So, she may not remember Griffith being locked away, any instances of the Eclipse or any feelings she may have had for Guts. She would probably remember Griffith for how he used to be and not who he is now, this would then lead to her not believing or wanting to hear anything about what happened to her comrades and she may proceed to lash out if this were the case, becoming the head strong Casca she once was and refusing to believe the truth. Her initial views may be that she would want to see Griffith to find out for herself and would be conflicted about choosing sides until she's convinced otherwise. If this were to happen, I could see it affecting Guts in a new and emotional way to keep fighting for Casca, in order for her to be who he wants her to be.

Based on Skull Kights prediction of Casca not being who Guts might expect her to be, I would have thought this could be plausible, but as I said, this is just pure speculation.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 12:36:25 PM »
I wouldn't have ruled it out entirely if her natural state was to return, that she may have blocked a lot of negative things out of her mind and she may be reverted back to when things were going well for the Falcons. So, she may not remember Griffith being locked away, any instances of the Eclipse or any feelings she may have had for Guts.

Sounds like a rather convoluted (and far-fetched) development to me. Remembering only specific things, and somehow they'd all absolve Griffith. Besides, said development would not be compatible with the world as it currently exists. I mean going with your idea, she wakes up in Elfhelm and she believes things are still the way they were in what, volumes 5? And she refuses to believe what she's told? What about the elves, then? What about her brand? What about Guts' state, or their other comrades? What about Fantasia? How could she rationalize all that?

And follow Griffith how exactly? Even during the Golden Age arc, Casca knew she wasn't Griffith's most important asset. That's a large part of why she resented Guts at first. So with Griffith now a supernatural king with an invincible army at his command and his former best asset now a bitter and insignificant enemy living on an island very far away, what would her place be? And I'm not even talking about actually going to meet him, just the state of the world.

Based on Skull Kights prediction of Casca not being who Guts might expect her to be

The Skull Knight didn't predict anything, he warned Guts that her desires may not match his. You're getting carried away here.

Offline Groovy Metal Fist

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 12:50:40 PM »
Just to go on the speculation that Casca could want to follow Griffith. I wouldn't have ruled it out entirely if her natural state was to return, that she may have blocked a lot of negative things out of her mind and she may be reverted back to when things were going well for the Falcons. So, she may not remember Griffith being locked away, any instances of the Eclipse or any feelings she may have had for Guts. She would probably remember Griffith for how he used to be and not who he is now, this would then lead to her not believing or wanting to hear anything about what happened to her comrades and she may proceed to lash out if this were the case, becoming the head strong Casca she once was and refusing to believe the truth. Her initial views may be that she would want to see Griffith to find out for herself and would be conflicted about choosing sides until she's convinced otherwise. If this were to happen, I could see it affecting Guts in a new and emotional way to keep fighting for Casca, in order for her to be who he wants her to be.

Based on Skull Kights prediction of Casca not being who Guts might expect her to be, I would have thought this could be plausible, but as I said, this is just pure speculation.

I think having her memory restored to an outdated point would cheapen this mental restoration that was built up for so many volumes and over so many years. Her memory is limited now, but she has flashed back to the eclipse multiple times when facing the threat of rape, so I doubt she would forget the it after having her mind restored. The tension between Guts and Casca might come from the time Guts almost raped her or her possible not being on board with his seemingly impossible and extremely life threatening quest to kill Griffith.

Offline Walter

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 12:57:38 PM »
I mean going with your idea, she wakes up in Elfhelm and she believes things are still the way they were in what, volumes 5? And she refuses to believe what she's told? What about the elves, then? What about her brand? What about Guts' state, or their other comrades? What about Fantasia? How could she rationalize all that?
If that happens, they should definitely keep their receipt from the King of Flower Storm. It sounds like they might have to go on a second quest to restore her mind again, at that rate  :ganishka:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 01:19:19 PM »
The tension between Guts and Casca might come from the time Guts almost raped her or her possible not being on board with his seemingly impossible and extremely life threatening quest to kill Griffith.

Not to forget the issue of their son now being linked to Griffith, like I mentioned earlier. Miura's been building that up for a very long time, in my opinion specifically so that it would become a tragic issue. Ever since his birth, the boy has been by far the most important thing to Casca. I rather expect that to stay the case and to be at the heart of the problem once they all get to know the situation.


Offline JezzaX

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 01:35:28 PM »
Sounds like a rather convoluted (and far-fetched) development to me. Remembering only specific things, and somehow they'd all absolve Griffith. Besides, said development would not be compatible with the world as it currently exists. I mean going with your idea, she wakes up in Elfhelm and she believes things are still the way they were in what, volumes 5? And she refuses to believe what she's told? What about the elves, then? What about her brand? What about Guts' state, or their other comrades? What about Fantasia? How could she rationalize all that?

And follow Griffith how exactly? Even during the Golden Age arc, Casca knew she wasn't Griffith's most important asset. That's a large part of why she resented Guts at first. So with Griffith now a supernatural king with an invincible army at his command and his former best asset now a bitter and insignificant enemy living on an island very far away, what would her place be? And I'm not even talking about actually going to meet him, just the state of the world.

The Skull Knight didn't predict anything, he warned Guts that her desires may not match his. You're getting carried away here.

I apologise in advance for my spacing here, I'm now having to resort to a phone to type this.

I wouldn't consider it far fetched quite so much if her mind were so badly corrupted that Casca refused to believe anything bad she was told about Griffith. Yes the sight of elves, the brand etc may put a lot into perspective for her, but I could see her mind struggling to believe even this with things directly in front of her until she has more first hand experiences to understand more.

Someone's mind refusing to remember or acknowledge bad things that have happened to them has been seen in rape victims before or anyone who has suffered a traumatic experience, so she might do what she can to convince herself that not everything is true. She may be coherent but like Skull Knight has stated, her ideals wouldn't completely match that of Guts. Also, I think prediction may be the wrong word, I guess Skull Knights assumption would be more appropriate?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 01:42:35 PM »
I wouldn't even know you were on a phone had you not mentioned it!

I wouldn't consider it far fetched quite so much if her mind were so badly corrupted that Casca refused to believe anything bad she was told about Griffith.

And didn't remember what she experienced first hand either. After having been cured. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree here, because I do find it far-fetched.

Someone's mind refusing to remember or acknowledge bad things that have happened to them has been seen in rape victims before or anyone who has suffered a traumatic experience

No shit man, that's pretty much her current state, isn't it? Except she's retreated so far back into her mind that she's just not there anymore. If they're supposed to "fix" her only for it to be the same to a lesser extent, it's kind of like Walter says...

She may be coherent but like Skull Knight has stated, her ideals wouldn't completely match that of Guts. Also, I think prediction may be the wrong word, I guess Skull Knights assumption would be more appropriate?

Like I said, he warned Guts that what he wishes for may not be what she wishes for.

Offline JezzaX

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 02:22:37 PM »
It's hard for me to believe personally, that Casca would be reminded of everything and be told a story only to just agree to it and outright be prepared to going for vengeance against Griffith. I think that somewhere deep inside she would still respect and care for him not remembering the traumatic experience she has been through.

When I mentioned the state of mind for a traumatic experience I was iterating the point of selective thoughts, not the full level of post traumatic stress that she's dealing with now. As I said it might be something that can be fixed only so far due to how far retreated she currently is. If this were to happen, I would like to see the pain caused by the brand during their next encounter to be something more of a wake up call to the truth.

This is all speculation and agree or not, it's kind of how I would hope to see the story go, since it adds more pressure on Guts and we know how much Miura likes to put the poor guy through pain and anguish. I would still be happy if everything all works out well, but as you say Skull knights warning makes that seem increasingly unlikely.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 02:49:44 PM »
It's hard for me to believe personally, that Casca would be reminded of everything and be told a story only to just agree to it and outright be prepared to going for vengeance against Griffith.

Who said she'd do that? It doesn't have to be either one extreme or another. And why is it hard for you to believe that Casca will actually be cured? Because that's what it comes down to here. You're trying to find an excuse for her to have a completely irrational behavior and that excuse is that she would not fully regain her memories/personality.

I think that somewhere deep inside she would still respect and care for him not remembering the traumatic experience she has been through.

This makes no sense to me. Somewhere deep inside she would not remember? Her current condition might very well be the result of her not being willing to face the truth, so again you're talking about something that is already the case, only I don't see how in the future she could have faced and acknowledge the truth only to not know it deep inside? Truly I don't see how that's even possible.

When I mentioned the state of mind for a traumatic experience I was iterating the point of selective thoughts, not the full level of post traumatic stress that she's dealing with now.

When she's already going through the full thing and is set to be cured of it, you're expecting her to only revert to a milder form of the problem. That's not what I call being cured.

it's kind of how I would hope to see the story go, since it adds more pressure on Guts

Can Guts take more pressure than he already does? Casca is everything to him. She's what keeps him going, what keeps him sane. You think the sort of outrageous betrayal you're rooting for would keep him going? I don't.

Offline JezzaX

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 06:47:18 PM »
Who said she'd do that? It doesn't have to be either one extreme or another. And why is it hard for you to believe that Casca will actually be cured? Because that's what it comes down to here. You're trying to find an excuse for her to have a completely irrational behavior and that excuse is that she would not fully regain her memories/personality.

Well, it's one of many examples and it's not that I find it hard for her to be cured, just hard to believe that she would just accept what happened to her without showing some emotion, the potential emotion I have is that she doesn't want to acknowledge it, even after being cured. If she were to acknowledge what happened how do you think she would react? Another potential conclusion is for Casca to not agree to going up against Griffith after facing her emotions and to maybe try to persuade Guts to not go chasing after him? but I'm intrigued as to how she would deal with her rape, and murder of her friends now that she would be more consciously aware to describe how she feels about it.

This makes no sense to me. Somewhere deep inside she would not remember? Her current condition might very well be the result of her not being willing to face the truth, so again you're talking about something that is already the case, only I don't see how in the future she could have faced and acknowledge the truth only to not know it deep inside? Truly I don't see how that's even possible.

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant that Casca would still care for Griffith with no care for what he has done, almost as if she were to forgive him and deny he could have ever done such a thing.

When she's already going through the full thing and is set to be cured of it, you're expecting her to only revert to a milder form of the problem. That's not what I call being cured.

We're aware that she's on her way to Elfhelm to be cured, but does that really mean exactly what it says? There could be several conclusions to be drawn from Pucks idea for Casca to regain her original state of mind in Elfhelm, but is there any guarantee it will fully work to make her completely clear on everything? We won't really know until she's there. Like I say, I can be sure that Miura will make an interesting a thought provoking decision as to how Casca copes when she's back to normal and that I'll likely appreciate how he does it, but there's no set path as to how it's going to be handled, this is just my pure speculation.

Can Guts take more pressure than he already does? Casca is everything to him. She's what keeps him going, what keeps him sane. You think the sort of outrageous betrayal you're rooting for would keep him going? I don't.

That's exactly it, how would Guts deal with this kind of betrayal if he faced it? Guts has come across many hardships from such a young age and he's always found a way, be it through trial and error or willpower to overcome it, so this could be a new mental challenge for him to deal with yet again, which whilst horribly painful to see would be admirable to see him overcome it with his mind instead of his physical strength. Or it could be something very positive who knows? But I would be interested to see how Guts would try to convince Casca of the truths and what has been happening since she lost herself.

Offline Groovy Metal Fist

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 07:15:41 PM »
We're aware that she's on her way to Elfhelm to be cured, but does that really mean exactly what it says? There could be several conclusions to be drawn from Pucks idea for Casca to regain her original state of mind in Elfhelm, but is there any guarantee it will fully work to make her completely clear on everything? We won't really know until she's there. Like I say, I can be sure that Miura will make an interesting a thought provoking decision as to how Casca copes when she's back to normal and that I'll likely appreciate how he does it, but there's no set path as to how it's going to be handled, this is just my pure speculation.

Skull Knight said she would gain her memory back, not Puck; Puck mentioned the destination. That's a big distinction since Skull Knight has a history of accurate prophecies.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2012, 07:21:30 PM »
it's not that I find it hard for her to be cured, just hard to believe that she would just accept what happened to her without showing some emotion

No one said she wouldn't show "some emotion".

the potential emotion I have is that she doesn't want to acknowledge it

That's... not an emotion.

If she were to acknowledge what happened how do you think she would react?

That's hard to say. I think that she's already dealing with what happened as we speak, and has been ever since it took place. That's why she's in that state, because the truth is too hard to bear. So to me part of the process of curing her will be to help her accept and get over these events. Of course there's probably a supernatural dimension to it as well, but we don't know enough about that to seriously discuss it.

Another potential conclusion is for Casca to not agree to going up against Griffith after facing her emotions and to maybe try to persuade Guts to not go chasing after him?

Of course. That's actually a much likelier outcome. And I'm sorry to come back to it again but there's also the issue of their child. That will definitely be determinant in the end.

I'm intrigued as to how she would deal with her rape, and murder of her friends now that she would be more consciously aware to describe how she feels about it.

Fear, shame, anger, sorrow, guilt, pain... Feelings not too different from Guts'.

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I meant that Casca would still care for Griffith with no care for what he has done, almost as if she were to forgive him and deny he could have ever done such a thing.

Sounds to me like you didn't express yourself properly. :daiba: And as far as forgiving him goes, to quote myself: why would she do that after what he did to her, to her child, to her lover and to her friends? As for outright denying that he did, it would mean she'd still be sick in the head.

We're aware that she's on her way to Elfhelm to be cured, but does that really mean exactly what it says? There could be several conclusions to be drawn from Pucks idea for Casca to regain her original state of mind in Elfhelm, but is there any guarantee it will fully work to make her completely clear on everything?

Puck's idea was never for her to be cured. Originally, Guts only travelled there because it'd be a safe place for them. It's the Skull Knight who eventually told him that she might be cured on the island.

We won't really know until she's there. Like I say, I can be sure that Miura will make an interesting a thought provoking decision as to how Casca copes when she's back to normal and that I'll likely appreciate how he does it, but there's no set path as to how it's going to be handled, this is just my pure speculation.

Yeah sure, I can't prove that when they get there they won't just be told "sorry, we can't do anything for her". That would be a pretty stupid way to handle the story though. So yeah, certainly, nothing is sure beyond the shadow of a doubt right now, but I'll bet you whatever you want that it's eventually the boy that will be what truly matters, and that Casca won't just go over to Falconia by herself on a rowboat to be Griffith's "sword" amidst Zodd, Locus, Grunberd, Irvine and Rakshas, bleeding to death within a minute of arriving there because for some reason nothing he did bothers her.

That's exactly it, how would Guts deal with this kind of betrayal if he faced it?

He would go mad and die? You know, pretty much like we'd been told and shown in the manga. She's what's kept him going so far. Only her. Look at how he was brought back everytime he lost himself to the armor. Who was the trigger. It's her. The one he cares for.

Offline smogas

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 05:21:44 PM »
Guts will probably marry Casca  :troll: jk, but seriously I think there is gonna be time skip for like 2 years just enough time for Griffith to corrupt world and set stage for Guts.
As for Cascas mental state I think after regaining her memory she will be in a disorder for some time. After some time she'll set her priorities on things and  I hope the first thing on her "to do" list will be the revenge quest  :guts: But what I hope and think is not necessary the same. So I think, like someone mentioned before, she'll choose to care for her child and that will trigger the time skip.

P.S. Hello everyone! My first post , hope it wasn't total mess.(I think it was  :ganishka:)

Offline Walter

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2012, 05:43:13 PM »
Guts will probably marry Casca  :troll:
That's a cute thought. I know you were just kidding around, but I kinda like it! Imagine the ceremony in Elfhelm: Casca's dress train being lifted by elves. Puck squeezing himself between Guts and Casca during their kiss :casca::puck::guts:

Quote
As for Cascas mental state I think after regaining her memory she will be in a disorder for some time. After some time she'll set her priorities on things and  I hope the first thing on her "to do" list will be the revenge quest 
Same. I think it would make sense that after she "comes to" if she needs some time to be alone before her and Guts are ultimately reunited. It shouldn't be an instant recovery, nor do I think it will be. I can just imagine the worried look on Guts' face before she finally says the words he's been waiting for all this time.

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But what I hope and think is not necessary the same. So I think, like someone mentioned before, she'll choose to care for her child and that will trigger the time skip.
That might prove difficult, as the child can/only has visited them during full moons.

Quote
P.S. Hello everyone! My first post , hope it wasn't total mess.(I think it was  :ganishka:)
Well, I for one enjoyed it.  :void:
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Offline smogas

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 06:04:55 PM »
That's a cute thought. I know you were just kidding around, but I kinda like it! Imagine the ceremony in Elfhelm: Casca's dress train being lifted by elves. Puck squeezing himself between Guts and Casca during their kiss :casca::puck::guts:
Something like that is expected from puck  :ganishka:
That might prove difficult, as the child can/only has visited them during full moons.
Argh.. I was totally carried away writing my first post and forgot that. Still I won't drop my idea of time skip, but then again.. I contradict myself since I said that her child will be her biggest priority. Damn, need to rearrange my thoughts...  :???:

Offline JezzaX

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 07:26:04 PM »
No one said she wouldn't show "some emotion".
No, but I would expect whatever array of emotions she expresses it's going to include a lot of heartfelt pain that she refuses to want to face it head-on right away, she'll have to take time to come to terms with it and via things happening around her with hard evidence, not just the words of Guts and people she hasn't, in her conscious mind, truly met. Say you were to come out of a coma and you found out all your close friends had been killed at the hands of someone you followed so intently, what would your initial reaction be? If I were told by anyone, even my own brother, I would refuse to believe it until I saw the evidence for myself.

That's... not an emotion.

You're right, that's poor wording. I meant that whatever emotion she feels, it would lead her to wanting to deny everything, as mentioned in the comment above this.

That's hard to say. I think that she's already dealing with what happened as we speak, and has been ever since it took place. That's why she's in that state, because the truth is too hard to bear. So to me part of the process of curing her will be to help her accept and get over these events. Of course there's probably a supernatural dimension to it as well, but we don't know enough about that to seriously discuss it.

Like I said, this is all speculative and how effective this cure is, remains to be seen. I see a real struggle in her getting over the events and something that's going to take a great deal of time and comforting from people around her, hence my thoughts of conflicts and initial denial over what happened. I doubt she would remain that way forever though. Hypothetically, if she doesn't remember the eclipse it's going to take some convincing her of Griffiths actions.

Of course. That's actually a much likelier outcome. And I'm sorry to come back to it again but there's also the issue of their child. That will definitely be determinant in the end.

It may be a likelier outcome and I'm inclined to agree, but I like the idea of speculating over several possible scenarios, since I would have said Miura hasn't always taken the obvious route when developing the story. Also, don't be sorry about bringing up the child, it's interesting thinking about how Casca will treat the situation too, will she be a natural mother and care for the moonlight boy when he shows up again or be confused or even frightened?

Sounds to me like you didn't express yourself properly. :daiba: And as far as forgiving him goes, to quote myself: why would she do that after what he did to her, to her child, to her lover and to her friends? As for outright denying that he did, it would mean she'd still be sick in the head.

Yes, she could still be sick in the head, it might take time for her to come to terms with what Griffith did and still think he's the good man she always saw him as, then she would progressively come to see him for who he really is. Now that Griffith is in a position where he is loved by many and with his own kingdom, Casca could potentially be fooled in the same way if this were the case.

Puck's idea was never for her to be cured. Originally, Guts only travelled there because it'd be a safe place for them. It's the Skull Knight who eventually told him that she might be cured on the island.

Okay, I stand corrected. But as you say Skull Knight said she might be cured, meaning there could likely be consequences much like he stated in his warning or that she might not be fully cured, I'm purely speculating as to what these consequences could be.


Yeah sure, I can't prove that when they get there they won't just be told "sorry, we can't do anything for her". That would be a pretty stupid way to handle the story though. So yeah, certainly, nothing is sure beyond the shadow of a doubt right now, but I'll bet you whatever you want that it's eventually the boy that will be what truly matters, and that Casca won't just go over to Falconia by herself on a rowboat to be Griffith's "sword" amidst Zodd, Locus, Grunberd, Irvine and Rakshas, bleeding to death within a minute of arriving there because for some reason nothing he did bothers her.

I'm not speculating that they're going to be told that nothing can be done for her, I'd expect them to at least try, but with a gamble on what the results may be. Since our knowledge of the boy is fairly limited, we know he has saved Guts on various occasions and there is belief that he has an association to Griffith, but I would have thought that how he becomes involved after Casca's cure is very hard to say due to the limited knowledge we have. I also doubt Casca would get on a row boat and head straight to Falconia to be at Griffiths side, I'm saying that if/when she eventually sees him that she may remember him for who he was and not see him the same way Guts does, who knows?

He would go mad and die? You know, pretty much like we'd been told and shown in the manga. She's what's kept him going so far. Only her. Look at how he was brought back everytime he lost himself to the armor. Who was the trigger. It's her. The one he cares for.

Going back to the "Black Swordsman" and "Lost Children Arc" Guts had more or less left Casca aside, be it in what he thought was a safe place, to go pursue Griffith, it was then Puck who kept him safe and kept his brain in check while he didn't have her to focus on, I wouldn't have ruled out something like that happening again, but now he has a gang of friends and comrades who are willing to support him through the thick of it, he may just be faced with another mental challenge when Casca finally gains her sanity. Going over the armour though, do we think there could be anything that could happen at Elfhelm to develop or change the affects it has on Guts? With how much strain it has put on his body, especially against the sea god, do we think they may look to reverse the damage it has done?

One other thought that just came in my head. With Guts likely having to take another extended rest after his battle with the Sea God, wouldn't it be a nice surprise if he gains consciousness in Elfhelm to a restored Casca? I could see that being something of quite a beautiful moment if it were to happen.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 09:31:57 PM »
If I were told by anyone, even my own brother, I would refuse to believe it until I saw the evidence for myself.

This just in: Casca was present during her own rape.

I meant that whatever emotion she feels, it would lead her to wanting to deny everything, as mentioned in the comment above this.

Well there's absolutely no basis for this assertion.

Hypothetically, if she doesn't remember the eclipse it's going to take some convincing her of Griffiths actions.

Yeah hypothetically everything is possible. Maybe she'll think Guts cut off his own arm only to fool her, too! He drugged her and carried her off to an island to keep her from...what? Really, your talk of needing evidence makes it abundantly clear that you haven't thought this through. You're just making things more and more convoluted as you go in order to support what you say.

It may be a likelier outcome and I'm inclined to agree, but I like the idea of speculating over several possible scenarios, since I would have said Miura hasn't always taken the obvious route when developing the story.

Clearly what I'm telling you isn't the "obvious" route given the amount of people who can't seem to fathom it. As for speculating over possible scenarios, I don't think you've actually seriously considered the implications of what you're saying. There are so many holes in your scenario it's not even funny.

Yes, she could still be sick in the head, it might take time for her to come to terms with what Griffith did and still think he's the good man she always saw him as, then she would progressively come to see him for who he really is. Now that Griffith is in a position where he is loved by many and with his own kingdom, Casca could potentially be fooled in the same way if this were the case.

I don't even know where to begin. This scenario is completely unrealistic in so many ways. Casca could be fooled by Griffith and think he's the world's savior while on Elfhelm, surrounding by people who say otherwise (because she herself can't remember it of course)? Really? And she'll progressively come to see him for the monster he really is how? When? Do you think she's going to go live in Falconia and watch in horror as the truth behind the God Hand's sinister schemes is slowly revealed? That's the role you have in mind for her?

Okay, I stand corrected. But as you say Skull Knight said she might be cured, meaning there could likely be consequences much like he stated in his warning or that she might not be fully cured, I'm purely speculating as to what these consequences could be.

No actually, I don't think it could turn out like that. You're stretching his words to make them fit your views.

I would have thought that how he becomes involved after Casca's cure is very hard to say due to the limited knowledge we have.

He's her son and has always been drawn to her (and vice versa). There's no reason to think he wouldn't be anymore.

I also doubt Casca would get on a row boat and head straight to Falconia to be at Griffiths side, I'm saying that if/when she eventually sees him that she may remember him for who he was and not see him the same way Guts does, who knows?

When she sees him she'll clutch her chest while enduring enormous pain.

Going back to the "Black Swordsman" and "Lost Children Arc" Guts had more or less left Casca aside, be it in what he thought was a safe place, to go pursue Griffith, it was then Puck who kept him safe and kept his brain in check while he didn't have her to focus on, I wouldn't have ruled out something like that happening again, but now he has a gang of friends and comrades who are willing to support him through the thick of it, he may just be faced with another mental challenge when Casca finally gains her sanity.

I'm not going to explain this to you if you don't understand it. You should re-read the manga.

One other thought that just came in my head. With Guts likely having to take another extended rest after his battle with the Sea God, wouldn't it be a nice surprise if he gains consciousness in Elfhelm to a restored Casca? I could see that being something of quite a beautiful moment if it were to happen.

I don't think that's going to happen.

Offline Skullgrin140

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2012, 03:13:07 PM »
As much as I really want Casca to have her memories back and her state returned to normal something came up that has bothered me. Once the gang reach Elfhelm, I have a really suspicious feeling that when she is cured; memories returned & all, I fear she will go near insane far more so than how she is now and all of what has happened to her will be too much for her to even bare or even take in. I hope that really does not happen because everything that has happened up to this point has brought all the characters here to help get her memory back, to get there and have her memory restored only to make things worse would ultimately make there quest futile, and after the Skull Knight said "being healed may not be what Casca really wants" it's difficult to really know which direction that will go in.

The child on the other hand is something else, having come this far into the story I think almost everyone has come to dealt with that the child could be infact the deformed child tainted by Griffith and because of what happened in albion with the rebirth of Griffith has become what we all see now. The child at least serves some great importance to the story and might have something to do with Casca getting her memory, even though that child was created mainly by Griffith and it caused Casca to loose her memories I think the child could be some sort of link to restoring Casca, it sounds stupid but it's possible.

Offline Walter

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2012, 03:25:07 PM »
As much as I really want Casca to have her memories back and her state returned to normal something came up that has bothered me. Once the gang reach Elfhelm, I have a really suspicious feeling that when she is cured; memories returned & all, I fear she will go near insane far more so than how she is now and all of what has happened to her will be too much for her to even bare or even take in. I hope that really does not happen because everything that has happened up to this point has brought all the characters here to help get her memory back, to get there and have her memory restored only to make things worse would ultimately make there quest futile, and after the Skull Knight said "being healed may not be what Casca really wants" it's difficult to really know which direction that will go in.
The trouble I have believing an idea like this is that it raises a simple question: "And then what happens?" If Casca can't be cured and indeed goes FURTHER insane, then what happens with her character and with Guts? What then would have been the point of holding Casca's restoration like a carrot on a stick for so long? No point. It's the least interesting, most boring and depressing possibility out there. Which is why, among other reasons, I don't think it's likely.
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Offline Drizzle84

Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2012, 03:29:10 PM »
Still getting the hang of this reply w/ quote stuff anyway... Walter replied to me...
"We've seen the child several times _on full moons_."

We've also seen Griffith during a full moon too in V27 rescuing Charlotte though. So I'm not completely convinced they are one in the same being, although that would make perfect sense. After all, Griffith is nearly omnipotent so he could be pulling the strings as to when the child can/can't appear.

Walter, Aaz, would that be your opinion on this subject?
If you long for one thing for so long it\'s a given that you\'ll miss other things along the way, that\'s how it is... that\'s how it is... that's life.

Offline Walter

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Re: What will happen to The Child, Casca, and our hero in Elfhelm
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2012, 03:34:05 PM »
Still getting the hang of this reply w/ quote stuff anyway... Walter replied to me...
"We've seen the child several times _on full moons_."

We've also seen Griffith during a full moon too in V27 rescuing Charlotte though. So I'm not completely convinced they are one in the same being, although that would make perfect sense. After all, Griffith is nearly omnipotent so he could be pulling the strings as to when the child can/can't appear.

Walter, Aaz, would that be your opinion on this subject?

That wasn't a full moon. Look again.  :void:
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