Skullknight.NET Podcast: Berserk Movie Edition

[Walter]

Anyway do you think that there could be new Berserk animes in the future if the trilogy fails?

No, I don't think it's likely to happen. It depends on the success of the other movies in this trilogy, but given the standard set by the opening act, I don't think it will grow a significant amount of new viewers with subsequent releases. And that's unfortunate for a number of reasons—first and foremost, it makes Berserk look like something that isn't worthy, when it's really a matter of the skill of those who adapted it.

I think a tightly focused story like the Black Swordsman Arc, which doesn't jump around in time every few volumes, could have been something special. Adapting the Golden Age first turned out to be a big mistake in my opinion (surprise).

but some guy of Lucent Studios that decided to ask Miura to give the studio the right for an anime got rejected and he said Miura had tens of offers he rejected but Miura gave them the green light later when they showed him a high quality 77 seconds Berserk anime, and they were the only ones to do so. Hope it wasn't a problem asking your opinion here

The scenario you just described was told in an interview with the producer of the anime, shown a few months back.

Hope it wasn't a problem asking your opinion here

Like I said in the review thread, it's painful for me to have to explain how something I love was adapted into such a trainwreck. It's something I'd hoped to avoid having to do, at length. Hence my displeasure. People should just watch it themselves and come to their own conclusions.

[SuperVegetto]

No, I don't think it's likely to happen. It depends on the success of the other movies in this trilogy, but given the standard set by the opening act, I don't think it will grow a significant amount of new viewers with subsequent releases. And that's unfortunate for a number of reasons—first and foremost, it makes Berserk look like something that isn't worthy, when it's really a matter of the skill of those who adapted it.

I think a tightly focused story like the Black Swordsman Arc, which doesn't jump around in time every few volumes, could have been something special. Adapting the Golden Age first turned out to be a big mistake in my opinion (surprise).
The scenario you just described was told in an interview with the producer of the anime, shown a few months back.
Like I said in the review thread, it's painful for me to have to explain how something I love was adapted into such a trainwreck. It's something I'd hoped to avoid having to do, at length. Hence my displeasure. People should just watch it themselves and come to their own conclusions.

Okay sorry. I won't ask you anymore. I know how you feel because these reviews pretty much ruined my day, I guess I had expectation even though not so high, the real thing was way below. I'm worried about the newcomers, since people who read the manga know it's a masterpiece. I think I can at least find the movie entertaining, even if it's much worse than the manga, have yet to see it though, then I will know

[Proj2501]

I think a tightly focused story like the Black Swordsman Arc, which doesn't jump around in time every few volumes, could have been something special. Adapting the Golden Age first turned out to be a big mistake in my opinion (surprise).

Giving regular movie goers a Black Swordsman movie first makes the most fucking sense. Guts vs the Snake Baron and the Count. End with the Godhand and mystery. If the goal is to, I don't know, maybe acquire more fans (= $$$) then why not give something that people will ache to see MORE of, not less?

Hook with action then follow up with story. Like the manga does.  

I had two people I was very much looking forward to showing the movie to, as to get them into Berserk. As it stands, fuck it, that's why I have you guys.

[hellrasinbrasin]

I think that when it comes down to it Berserk has had only one success story outside of manga format.

[Proj2501]

Which is?

[hellrasinbrasin]

Which is?

The Tv-Series even though it carries an infraction of omitted characters (Skull Knight, Wyald, and Puck) it
was still a hundred times better than the film.

[ryOtoha]

My reasonable hope going into the movie was that, rather than a faithful adaptation of Berserk, it would just be something cool in its own right. I hoped that it would be something I could show friends to expose them to Berserk in the most casual way possible.

That's the only thing I was hoping for. I didn't listen to the podcast yet but basically, I understand that Kenpū Denki Berserk stands as the best adaptation of Berserk. What a shame...

[JoeZeon]

Now that we've seen the movie, does it change your opinion of the Anime series now? I think it reaffirms what I personally think. That it's really damn good, even before the movies came out. Unfortunately it seems more likely to me that we'll never see post-golden age animated, which is what I was personally looking forward to.

[Turkitage]

Oh!! New podcast! Didn't even see this earlier. Oh, skullknight.net you treat me so well.

Update: I think I have a new favorite Aaz quote, "Everything is so stupidly done."
Or maybe Griffith's, "It was worse than I thought." I just can't decide.

I won't even get into parts where Aaz said he'd start killin people!

At least I learned a new word: Perfunctory!

[Walter]

Update: I think I have a new favorite Aaz quote, "Everything is so stupidly done." Or maybe Griffith's, "It was worse than I thought." I just can't decide. 

Oh, I'm pretty sure we have some better quotes than that. Like Aaz' threats.

Subject aside, I thought this was one of our best podcasts all around.

[Henry Spencer]

Oooh boy. Sounds really bad. To me, it sounds like a case of bad direction...if an adaptation is nothing more than a montage, rather than an actual movie, there is no real structure. Has the film's director worked on much before? And what do you guys fear for the next movie? More cuts? More montages? More out of character moments?

Will this film even appeal to new fans, if you have no idea what is going on, it sounds so convoluted (in a bad way).

[hellrasinbrasin]

Will this film even appeal to new fans.

No it doesn't even appeal to established fans. If anything it will run off
potential new fans whose only exposure to the series will have been
through this Montage film.

[Aazealh]

Now that we've seen the movie, does it change your opinion of the Anime series now?

Absolutely not. Why would it?

I think it reaffirms what I personally think. That it's really damn good, even before the movies came out.

I'll have to strongly disagree. It's far from being "damn good".

Has the film's director worked on much before?

Don't think so.

And what do you guys fear for the next movie? More cuts? More montages? More out of character moments?

I expect more of the same.

Will this film even appeal to new fans, if you have no idea what is going on, it sounds so convoluted (in a bad way).

I don't think the people that will be introduced to Berserk by this movie are very likely to become fans.

[Rhombaad]

I have to admit, after thinking about it for a few days and listening to this podcast, I'm looking at the movie in a new light.

When I watched it the other night, I think my expectations were so low that I walked away from the movie having, for the most part, enjoyed it. Now that I've had a chance to think about it for a few days, and after listening to the complains you three had about the film, I don't think I can bring myself to watch it again.

To be honest, it was a lot like my experience with the Watchmen film. The first time I saw it, I enjoyed it. The next time...not so much. Looking back on that experience, I think it was not only a combination of seeing some of my favorite moments in the graphic novel acted out, which I very much enjoyed, but that I was expecting a horrible, horrible experience, which wasn't the case. The next time I saw it, I spent the entire time analyzing each scene and came to the conclusion that I wish I had come to during my first viewing experience: it just wasn't that good.

Same with the Berserk film. What I enjoyed was seeing Berserk animated...but what I didn't think about while watching the movie, was that I wasn't seeing Berserk animated; I was seeing a caricature of Berserk, an imitation. And that's really what this film is: an imitation of our beloved manga, an attempt at reaching the standard Miura set and not coming close.

As for the next two films...I have no desire to see them. If they end up making a Black Swordsman movie after this trilogy is wrapped up, I might take a gander, but until then, I'm going to pretend that this project doesn't exist anymore.

For those who purchased the Blu-ray or DVD, are you going to hold on to it? I almost don't want it in my apartment. I like the illustration by Miura on the slip cover, but I just can't justify holding onto the Blu-ray for that alone, and I'm not sure what I'd do with it if I kept the slip cover itself.

On the bright side, at least we got a decent Hirasawa song out of all this.

[Walter]

On the bright side, at least we got a decent Hirasawa song out of all this.

In retrospect, I kind of already forgot about Aria. I can take it or leave it. Song left no impression on me. I rediscovered the CD when cleaning out my desk, and I was like, "Oh yeah, he made a new song... Huh."

In a complete reversal, I think AI's track ended up being the better song, even though I hated it at first. Check out the music video. The art and scenes work quite a bit better than in the movie

[SuperVegetto]

In retrospect, I kind of already forgot about Aria. I can take it or leave it. Song left no impression on me. I rediscovered the CD when cleaning out my desk, and I was like, "Oh yeah, he made a new song... Huh."

In a complete reversal, I think AI's track ended up being the better song, even though I hated it at first. Check out the music video. The art and scenes work quite a bit better than in the movie

That's really strange lol, to me Aria is the second best song ever after Sign. Heard it hundred of times and still gets better every time I hear it. And yeah that video was nice

[Aazealh]

For those who purchased the Blu-ray or DVD, are you going to hold on to it? I almost don't want it in my apartment. I like the illustration by Miura on the slip cover, but I just can't justify holding onto the Blu-ray for that alone, and I'm not sure what I'd do with it if I kept the slip cover itself.

It's a collector's item to me, nothing more. It'll go sit on the shelf with my LDs of the '97 TV series and gather dust for a few decades.

In a complete reversal,I think AI's track ended up being the better song, even though I hated it at first. Check out the music video. The art and scenes work quite a bit better than in the movie

I agree completely, as you know. I found her song to be great right from the start and in my opinion nothing else comes close in the OST (and that clip is miles above the film). It's too bad it wasn't put to better use in the movie. As for Aria, it's good enough, but not among Hirasawa's best works to me.

[hellrasinbrasin]

You know after looking at director Toshiyuki Kubooka's portfolio I now understand how he could have fucked this project up.

BAOH (OAV) : Key Animation
Batman: Gotham Knight (movie) : Director (ep 5)
BECK: Mongolian Chop Squad (TV) : Storyboard (ep 4)
Daimaju Gekito Hagane no Oni (OAV) : Assistant Animation Director
Dennō Coil (TV) : Key Animation (eps 1-2)
Engage Planet Kiss Dum (TV) : Sub-Character Design
Gala (movie) : Animation Director
Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo (TV) : Storyboard (episodes 3, 10, 15, 20)
Giant Robo (OAV) : Storyboard (eps 1-2), Character Design, Animation Director (eps 1-2), Key Animation (eps 1-2)
Gin Rei (OAV) : Character Design
Gunbuster (OAV) : Chief Animation Director, Animation Director (eps 1, 4), Animation Character Design, Animation, Key Animation (ep 2)
(The) IDOLM@STER (TV) : Original Character Design
iDOLM@STER: Live For You! (OAV) : Original Character Design
IDOLM@STER: XENOGLOSSIA (TV) : Original Character Design
Lupin III: The Legend of the Gold of Babylon (movie) : Key Animation
Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket (OAV) : Animation Director
Nadia - The Secret of Blue Water (TV) : Storyboard (eps 12, 31, 39), Animation Director (2,20,36)
Odin - Starlight Mutiny (movie) : Key Animation
Origin ~Spirits of the Past~ (movie) : Key Animation
Project A-Ko (movie) : Key Animation
Project A-Ko 2: Plot of the Daitokuji Financial Group (OAV) : Key Animation
Project A-ko 3: Cinderella Rhapsody (OAV) : Key Animation
Requiem from the Darkness (TV) : Literary Manager
Shanghai Dragon (movie) : Storyboard, Unit Director

[Walter]

I dunno, is that such a bad resume? Key animator on Project A-Ko, that's a pretty good start to a career.

He also did character designs and art design for Lunar: The Silver Star Story.

[hellrasinbrasin]

I wasn't implying it was a bad resume Walter in fact its a good one. But that doesn't explain how Toshiyuki could have gone from doing quality work in those projects to this...

[SrCraneo]

So what do you mean you now understand how he fucked up... if that can't explain it?

[mazinken]

All of the work that has been listed shows that he is involved as a character designer or as an animation director it is just not the same as being a director which is a completely different job.

[hellrasinbrasin]

So what do you mean you now understand how he fucked up... if that can't explain it?

That in those projects in the departments he worked in he did his job but when it came time to step up to the plate as Director of a "Major Motion Picture" he couldn't hack it. He couldn't do his job because he had no experience as a Director before this film project.

[Aazealh]

All of the work that has been listed shows that he is involved as a character designer or as an animation director it is just not the same as being a director which is a completely different job.

Yep, his only "real" major directing experience before this movie was one of the Batman: Gotham Knight sections, which was nothing special IMHO. Let's not blame it all on one guy though, there might have been unknown circumstances that somewhat forced his hand as well. Just the fact they went from one single movie to a trilogy mid-production is a clear indication that something was wrong with the project. I'll never understand how anyone could have believed for even an instant that they could adapt the entire Golden Age arc into a single movie.

[Henry Spencer]

Well, here's the writer of the movie, Ichirō Ōkouchi's resume:

Anime

    Turn A Gundam (Screenplay; 1999)
    Angelic Layer (Series composition, screenplay; 2001)
    A Gundam II: Moonlight Butterfly (Screenplay; 2002)
    OVERMAN King Gainer (Series composition, screenplay; 2002)
    Azumanga Daioh (Series composition, screenplay; 2002)
    RahXephon (Screenplay; 2002)
    Wolf's Rain (Screenplay; 2003)
    Stellvia of the Universe (Screenplay; 2003)
    Planetes (Series composition and screenplay; 2003)
    Mahou Sensei Negima! (Series composition, overall plot and screenplay; 2005)
    Eureka Seven (Screenplay; 2005)
    Brave Story (Screenplay; 2006)
    Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion (Original story, series composition, screenplay; 2006–07)
    Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 (Original story, series composition, screenplay; 2008)
    Shigofumi: Letters from the Departed (Series composition, screenplay; 2008)
    Magic Tree House (Screenplay; 2011)
    Guilty Crown (Assistant series composition; 2011)
    Berserk Golden Age Arc I: Egg of the Supreme Ruler (Screenplay; 2012)

Not seen any of them, but heard plenty of praise for Planetes and Wolf's Rain. No idea about the rest. EDIT: Wait, it appears he is the only writer on the three films.