Author Topic: Random Observations in Re-read  (Read 3482 times)

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Offline ApostleBob

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Random Observations in Re-read
« on: August 21, 2015, 02:53:31 PM »
I've read Berserk maybe 6 times cover to cover.  It's been about a year and a half and I thought I'd do another to catch up for the new releases and I caught some new stuff I hadn't noticed before.

-It's strange that the God Hand deliberately manipulate Griffith into joining their ranks. Once he's one of them and he see's how all this works, and how he's been played just like every apostle they encounter, would there be resent? Perhaps he's above petty emotions at that point, but potentially each God Hand has dicked each new member over at one point in this way. 

-I noticed that the entire Troll encounter isn't simply a random breach of the astral world into the material one, but rather specifically linked to Slan taking form and opening Qliphoth.  The seeds of Fantasia are much more prominent this time around and it gives a lot more weight to the Troll section.

-The apotles at Floras house are just amazing designs. That is all.

-I'd forgotten how late Ganishka is introduced. It's many volumes after the Kushan appear.

-I didn't realize that the berserker armor is working, though to a lessor effect, on Guts even when it isn't 'activated.' He mentions that he controls his pain through it while they are on the beach.

-It's really not clear if Vritanis is the Holy City or not. There are implications, but the skyline doesn't match and there doesn't seem to be a real Holy See presence.

I'm on Volume 26 so I'll post more as I notice more.  Just thought I'd share how I keep finding new things in these books.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2015, 03:08:00 PM »
Nice! I started to read them again for the euh 40th time maybe? I'm at volume 8 right now. This time I like to take time to look at peoples reaction when Guts is fighting and am spending a lot of time on backgrounds just for fun.

I also adore the fact that when Griffith (in the golden age) talks to Guts about the crimson Beherit and how it's supposed to make you obtain the world in exchange for flesh and blood, how in fact that is mostly true. Whats even more fun is that even though we know Griffith is Femto before the golden age flashback you still have no idea that it's gonna get that far with the incarnation and all that's coming after it.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 03:34:32 PM by jackson_hurley »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2015, 04:58:01 PM »
-It's strange that the God Hand deliberately manipulate Griffith into joining their ranks. Once he's one of them and he see's how all this works, and how he's been played just like every apostle they encounter, would there be resent? Perhaps he's above petty emotions at that point, but potentially each God Hand has dicked each new member over at one point in this way.

One would assume that his point of view would be radically different after having become Femto. Would he exchange his current position for the hypothetical one he might have had without his downfall? Highly doubtful. Also, it's not like it's only the bad moments that were orchastrated. His whole life was, including his rise to glory, and it was all just so he'd become Femto. With that in mind as well as a new understanding of the world, why be resentful? From his perspective, he's just fulfilling his destiny.

-I noticed that the entire Troll encounter isn't simply a random breach of the astral world into the material one, but rather specifically linked to Slan taking form and opening Qliphoth.  The seeds of Fantasia are much more prominent this time around and it gives a lot more weight to the Troll section.

I don't think it's explicitly stated that she "opened up" the Qliphoth herself. Slan appears in order to meet Guts, and can do so because she's affiliated with the place. But she never says she's responsible for linking it to the corporeal world, rather she mentions it is a consequence of Femto's incarnation into the world (something Schierke also supposes earlier on).

-I'd forgotten how late Ganishka is introduced. It's many volumes after the Kushan appear.

While his character is formally introduced in volume 27, he first appears as a silhouette at the end of episode 127, in volume 17.

-I didn't realize that the berserker armor is working, though to a lessor effect, on Guts even when it isn't 'activated.' He mentions that he controls his pain through it while they are on the beach.

Yes, the Berserk's armor affects him all the time so long as he wears it. It dulls his pain, but it also affects his senses, which is why he's repeatedly shown having trouble with them (loss of sight and taste, trembling hands...). And of course its Od is always waiting to flare up and engulf him at the slighest provocation.

-It's really not clear if Vritanis is the Holy City or not. There are implications, but the skyline doesn't match and there doesn't seem to be a real Holy See presence.

It is completely, 100% clear that it is not.

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 12:59:22 PM »
One would assume that his point of view would be radically different after having become Femto. Would he exchange his current position for the hypothetical one he might have had without his downfall? Highly doubtful. Also, it's not like it's only the bad moments that were orchastrated. His whole life was, including his rise to glory, and it was all just so he'd become Femto. With that in mind as well as a new understanding of the world, why be resentful? From his perspective, he's just fulfilling his destiny.

About what I thought.

I don't think it's explicitly stated that she "opened up" the Qliphoth herself. Slan appears in order to meet Guts, and can do so because she's affiliated with the place. But she never says she's responsible for linking it to the corporeal world, rather she mentions it is a consequence of Femto's incarnation into the world (something Schierke also supposes earlier on).

It's more of an inference than anything specifically stated in the text. She calls the place her womb and it would make sense that a strong presence like her would be the source of the overlap. More speculation i assume.

While his character is formally introduced in volume 27, he first appears as a silhouette at the end of episode 127, in volume 17.

I always thought that was just a random Kushan elephant rider. Good catch!

It is completely, 100% clear that it is not.

I think what threw me was the Vandimillion estate, the presense of Farnese's family, and the fact that the Holy See alliance is centering there.  The flashback makes it clear that she was raised in a house inside the Holy City, but the skyline is quite different.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 07:50:57 PM »
It's more of an inference than anything specifically stated in the text. She calls the place her womb and it would make sense that a strong presence like her would be the source of the overlap. More speculation i assume.

I see. Well the Qliphoth is definitely a place she has an affinity for, and that's why she could manifest herself there in the first place (as opposed for example to her fleeting presence in the heretics' cave in volume 18). However, from what she says herself it seems Femto's incarnation is the reason for the Qliphoth getting connected to the corporeal world. Furthermore, she also mentions she came specifically to see Guts, while the trolls had been raiding Enoch long before Guts came around. Lastly, after Guts manages to cast her away, the place quickly becomes unstable and collapses on itself, an event the Skull Knight explains is a result of her forcible advent and subsequent demise.

I think what threw me was the Vandimillion estate, the presense of Farnese's family, and the fact that the Holy See alliance is centering there.  The flashback makes it clear that she was raised in a house inside the Holy City, but the skyline is quite different.

The Vandimion are/were a very powerful family. It's not only logical but necessary that they would have an estate in Vritannis (originally a city of trade from the size of its harbor) as well as in various other locations in addition to their main domain at the heart of the Holy See. The reason they were all in Vritannis by the time our heroes got there is because of the alliance and decision to join the war.

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 08:03:52 PM »
I see. Well the Qliphoth is definitely a place she has an affinity for, and that's why she could manifest herself there in the first place (as opposed for example to her fleeting presence in the heretics' cave in volume 18). However, from what she says herself it seems Femto's incarnation is the reason for the Qliphoth getting connected to the corporeal world. Furthermore, she also mentions she came specifically to see Guts, while the trolls had been raiding Enoch long before Guts came around. Lastly, after Guts manages to cast her away, the place quickly becomes unstable and collapses on itself, an event the Skull Knight explains is a result of her forcible advent and subsequent demise.

Hmm. I don't mean to push the issue, but if her demise caused Qliphoth to collapse might it not have been tied to her? I don't dispute that her ability to manifest at all is due to the fifth being incarnated. Equally for Qliphoth. But in your opinion the Qliphoth and Slan are not tied to one another, and she was just taking advantage of an existing situation, correct? I took her comments about it being her womb as a bit more of a connection in my latest re-read, but I may be over reaching.


The Vandimion are/were a very powerful family. It's not only logical but necessary that they would have an estate in Vritannis (originally a city of trade from the size of its harbor) as well as in various other locations in addition to their main domain at the heart of the Holy See. The reason they were all in Vritannis by the time our heroes got there is because of the alliance and decision to join the war.

This makes sense.  I think the Holy See alliance threw me off.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 09:26:57 PM by ApostleBob »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2015, 08:17:41 PM »
But in your opinion the Qliphoth and Slan are not tied to one another, and she was just taking advantage of an existing situation, correct? I took her comments about it being her womb as a bit more of a connection in my latest re-read, but I may be over reaching.

Well I don't think it's literally her womb. And it's not just the fact she was banished that unsettled the place, but her forceful manifestation as well. Also, note that she was completely carefree and gleeful as she left, despite the fact the place was collapsing as a result of her actions. She didn't care.

Of course, it's worth mentioning that we're not sure exactly what the Qliphoth encompasses. Maybe what was destroyed was but a small part of it, or one instance of it. Because it's an astral domain, it probably shouldn't be thought of as a normal location.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2015, 10:03:43 PM »
Well I don't think it's literally her womb. And it's not just the fact she was banished that unsettled the place, but her forceful manifestation as well. Also, note that she was completely carefree and gleeful as she left, despite the fact the place was collapsing as a result of her actions. She didn't care.

Of course, it's worth mentioning that we're not sure exactly what the Qliphoth encompasses. Maybe what was destroyed was but a small part of it, or one instance of it. Because it's an astral domain, it probably shouldn't be thought of as a normal location.

I've always thought Flora had a role in the sealing of Qliphoth. With what you said above me.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2015, 06:10:45 AM »
I've always thought Flora had a role in the sealing of Qliphoth. With what you said above me.

Uhhh, nope.

Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2015, 06:40:06 AM »
I've always thought Flora had a role in the sealing of Qliphoth. With what you said above me.

I think you mean Schierke and no she just caved in an entrance to the cave, she didn't banish the realm.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2015, 07:17:49 PM »
I think you mean Schierke and no she just caved in an entrance to the cave, she didn't banish the realm.

No no not like that. I meant Schierke says that something else closed the Qliphoth. I thought that including what happened with Guts and Skullknight, that Flora closed it from afar. Nevermind that.  :serpico: Now it's clear what happened.

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2015, 06:24:15 PM »
Well I pass the scene where Guts is fighting the burning kids specter after killing them as bugs a little earlier in Jill's village. I fucking love that scene where Puck is saying to Jill : "S'no use, he's totally gone." The hate and urge to kill in Guts face always got me in that scene. How desperate and messed up he still is. It's good to see the influence of Puck on him in that part.

Offline Walter

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2015, 07:58:37 PM »
Well I pass the scene where Guts is fighting the burning kids specter after killing them as bugs a little earlier in Jill's village. I fucking love that scene where Puck is saying to Jill : "S'no use, he's totally gone."

I think that scene is also revealing for Puck, since it implies he's seen Guts go through this many times before, and knows when it's futile to intervene. Pretty sad...  :sad:
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline jackson_hurley

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Re: Random Observations in Re-read
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2015, 08:29:22 PM »
I think that scene is also revealing for Puck, since it implies he's seen Guts go through this many times before, and knows when it's futile to intervene. Pretty sad...  :sad:

Yes exactly. And I'm glad that Puck was able finally to change him. The best part is soon to come for my rereading : that part where Guts is finally being able to laugh. (And of course the first time he calls Puck by his name) Very very good moments for me to read again.

Edit : I'm at volume 23 and (it's not the first time I noticed that detail) wanted to ask if I'm the only one who thinks the hilt of Griffith's sword looks like a brand? I think it's pretty cool. Just a thought like that.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 09:18:41 PM by jackson_hurley »