Author Topic: Episode 342  (Read 32052 times)

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Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2015, 08:21:21 PM »
What we see in the manga is that Farnese has romantic feelings for Guts and has not yet come to terms with the fact those will never be reciprocated. When you say you disagree and that instead, she has "recognized but not accepted" the situation, you're basically saying the same thing but in a backhanded, roundabout manner. Frankly, this has got to be one of the most pointless discussions I can remember having on this forum.

I all am saying is that even if we're agreement that Farnese has not fully come to terms with her feelings, I think Farnese has a little more self-awareness to her emotional issues than you attribute to her. And yeesh man, no need to be so cantankerous about a simple discussion on the nuances of characterization.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2015, 08:33:29 PM »
I all am saying is that even if we're agreement that Farnese has not fully come to terms with her feelings, I think Farnese has a little more self-awareness to her emotional issues than you attribute to her. And yeesh man, no need to be so cantankerous about a simple discussion on the nuances of characterization.

I'm just stating how this comes across to me. Anyone who's read my posts knows I'm all about nuances, but I don't see the point if they're unestablished, indefinable and imperceptible. On an occasion as memorable as this one, I feel like our time could be better used. But really, suit yourself.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2015, 08:44:25 PM »
I'm just stating how this comes across to me. Anyone who's read my posts knows I'm all about nuances, but I don't see the point if they're unestablished, indefinable and imperceptible. On an occasion as memorable as this one, I feel like our time could be better used. But really, suit yourself.

Okay that's fine, I personally think there is an established and perceptible nuance to Farnese's situation that warrants being specific about the language used to describe it, you personally don't, and that's okay. No need for further discussion then, I guess.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2015, 09:09:01 PM »
I personally think there is an established and perceptible nuance to Farnese's situation

That you cannot demonstrate. Which is why there is no need for further discussion.

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2015, 09:54:15 PM »
Having time run faster on Skellig really opens up a lot of interesting speculation, such as whether or not the Skull Kight used the island as a base, or how the world and specifically Falconia will look after the inevitable time skip. The aftermath of Fantasia is still reverberating through human civilsation as they get used to constant monster and brownie attacks, it will be interesting to see what the world will look like after the initial shock dies down. Or if certain demons will turn against Griffith, I'm not pointing fingers..  :slan:  :ubik:  :void:

And the islands inhabitants have presumably observed a lot of human history, their perspective on the God Hand's influence on the world will be interesting too.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2015, 10:01:00 PM »
That you cannot demonstrate. Which is why there is no need for further discussion.

The demonstrable evidence can be seen in Episodes 287-290 and 328. I mean dude, you don't have to agree with my specific interpretation (which is honestly minuscule in difference from yours, all I am arguing is that delusional isn't a proper adjective to describe Farnese's situation because I think she has more self-awareness of her issues than you do), but you also don't have to insinuate that I am making stuff up and/or being completely baseless in my reading of the text.

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #81 on: November 26, 2015, 10:07:06 PM »
The aftermath of Fantasia is still reverberating through human civilsation as they get used to constant monster and brownie attacks

Is that so? The only human settlement we've seen so far (Falconia) is quite safe, and I'm not sure there's anyone else left (besides the Bakiraka). I would expect the opposite actually, for Falconia to make an impact on the rest of the world.

Or if certain demons will turn against Griffith, I'm not pointing fingers..  :slan:  :ubik:  :void:

Why would they? They're on the same side and everything so far indicates that they have complementary goals.

The demonstrable evidence can be seen in Episodes 287-290 and 328. I mean dude, you don't have to agree with my specific interpretation (which is honestly minuscule in difference from yours, all I am arguing is that delusional isn't a proper adjective to describe Farnese's situation because I think she has more self-awareness of her issues than you do), but you also don't have to insinuate that I am making stuff up and/or being completely baseless in my reading of the text.

The problem is that you started nitpicking on something Vixen Comic said without having anything to substantiate your claims. A delusion is a false belief or a false hope. Farnese having any hope at all to ever have a romantic relationship with Guts can reasonably be said to be a delusion. And you have agreed that she hasn't come to terms with the fact Guts and her will not enter into such a relationship. I mean what's left to say? Your objection to Vixen's wording feels purely pedantic, not to mention contradictory. By the way, episode 328 is a flashback of Guts' past that doesn't feature Farnese at all. And episodes 287 to 290 show Farnese not being able to face the possibility that Guts may actually love someone else, so I don't see how they support your point.

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #82 on: November 26, 2015, 11:01:00 PM »
The problem is that you started nitpicking on something Vixen Comic said without having anything to substantiate your claims. A delusion is a false belief or a false hope. Farnese having any hope at all to ever have a romantic relationship with Guts can reasonably be said to be a delusion. And you have agreed that she hasn't come to terms with the fact Guts and her will not enter into such a relationship. I mean what's left to say? Your objection to Vixen's wording feels purely pedantic.

I've always previously heard the term "delusion" used in a manner that implies a very strong conviction/belief and incorrigibility on the deluded person's part (which I don't think Farnese's false hope and muddled feelings would qualify as) and also a lack of self-awareness (which I do think Farnese has) on the deluded person's part, which is why I quibbled against its use. I can admit that I'm maybe being a little pedantic, but I still think the distinction is important to make.

By the way, episode 328 is a flashback of Guts' past that doesn't feature Farnese at all.

Unless the Dark Horse's volume edition (which I have on my hand right now) orders the Episodes differently from the Japanese tankōbon, the Episode titled Shooting Star is placed before the flashback Episodes as #328, not after as #331 like the site has it as.

And episodes 287 to 290 show Farnese not being able to face the possibility that Guts may actually love someone else, so I don't see how they support your point.
Those episodes also depict Farnese in the process of confronting that notion and muddling through her emotions (even if she still isn't done doing so currently) and explicitly acknowledging that Casca is the most important person to Guts (despite the turmoil she is feeling), which I think supports my point.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 05:51:16 AM by Theozilla »

Offline Tripas

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #83 on: November 26, 2015, 11:09:27 PM »
I like that little twist Miura has introduced in this episode with the temporal affair. It puts very interesting things on the table.

About the Peekaf reference, it's curious how the author has repeated the move he already did a long time ago with Gaiseric's tale, differences aside, giving us different versions of a mouth-to-mouth story. Schierke doesn't directly name the character of the fairytale, but it's almost for sure that it's the same story, except for important details that differ a lot from the original. This not only serves as a nostalgia punch for us but also for Miura to paving the way for the fact that in Elfhelm the flow of time changes. Very clever. However, I would like to think that's not the overall purpose to bringing back the "remake" of this tale. If that's the case, I feel it a little left over.

Anyway, I cannot wait to see Elfhelm. Volume 39 will be a craziness!

Oh, and Puck... I simply adore him.

Offline SpaceyLauss

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2015, 11:04:07 PM »
Thank you Mangetsu for posting the link, and many thanks to Puella for the translation!

Offline MrFlibble

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #85 on: November 28, 2015, 11:34:32 AM »
Is that so? The only human settlement we've seen so far (Falconia) is quite safe, and I'm not sure there's anyone else left (besides the Bakiraka). I would expect the opposite actually, for Falconia to make an impact on the rest of the world.

I don't mean that civilization learns to fight off monsters, more like a post apocalyptic world where humans are forced to live in hiding from them, or something like that.

Why would they? They're on the same side and everything so far indicates that they have complementary goals.

So far, but that might change, we still don't know what the God Hand want.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #86 on: November 29, 2015, 01:43:30 AM »
Unless the Dark Horse's volume edition (which I have on my hand right now) orders the Episodes differently from the Japanese tankōbon, the Episode titled Shooting Star is placed before the flashback Episodes as #328, not after as #331 like the site has it as.

Well, the episodes aren't numbered in the volumes, Dark Horse or in the Japanese ones that only happens in the episodic releases. So  Ep 328 remains Ep 328, regardless of what happens with the order in the volumes after initial publication. Miura has swapped episode locations three times in the past (Vol 22: Snow, Flames & 1-2; Vol 29: Homing; and Vol 37: Spring Flower 1-3).

Hoping your argument doesn't hinge on such things,  because they're of little meaning.

I don't mean that civilization learns to fight off monsters, more like a post apocalyptic world where humans are forced to live in hiding from them, or something like that.

If you're wondering what human civilization will resemble after the few scattered remnants eke out an existence in a world they can't possibly live in, I  agree it'll be interesting to see.  :ubik:

Griffith's plan to herd humanity to one location only works if there is only one safe location. That being said, I wonder if Falconian forces will establish any "forward operating base" type structures as the war machine gathers momentum in the future if only to make things sustainable on a military campaign out in the frontier.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #87 on: November 29, 2015, 02:26:45 AM »
I've always previously heard the term "delusion" used in a manner that implies a very strong conviction/belief and incorrigibility on the deluded person's part (which I don't think Farnese's false hope and muddled feelings would qualify as) and also a lack of self-awareness (which I do think Farnese has) on the deluded person's part, which is why I quibbled against its use. I can admit that I'm maybe being a little pedantic, but I still think the distinction is important to make.

Your lacking knowledge of the English language and/or your obsessive desire to discount what is plain to see (that Farnese's feelings for Guts have yet to be resolved and present a potential for conflict) are seriously tiring.
 
Unless the Dark Horse's volume edition (which I have on my hand right now) orders the Episodes differently from the Japanese tankōbon, the Episode titled Shooting Star is placed before the flashback Episodes as #328, not after as #331 like the site has it as.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Episodes are numbered during prepublication in Young Animal, not when they're released in volumes. So while as a matter of fact the episodes' order was indeed changed in the volumes, that doesn't excuse your error in the least.

Those episodes also depict Farnese in the process of confronting that notion and muddling through her emotions (even if she still isn't done doing so currently) and explicitly acknowledging that Casca is the most important person to Guts (despite the turmoil she is feeling), which I think supports my point.

No, I don't think anything in those episodes supports your point. I think you're showing an extraordinary lack of good faith in this argument and that you'd be hard-pressed to cite specific lines and panels where anything supports what you've been saying.

This not only serves as a nostalgia punch for us but also for Miura to paving the way for the fact that in Elfhelm the flow of time changes. Very clever. However, I would like to think that's not the overall purpose to bringing back the "remake" of this tale. If that's the case, I feel it a little left over.

I don't think there's more to it than what we've been shown. And it's not so much a "remake" as it might be how the tale and its variants originated.

I don't mean that civilization learns to fight off monsters, more like a post apocalyptic world where humans are forced to live in hiding from them, or something like that.

I understand, but my point is that the world is already like that.

So far, but that might change, we still don't know what the God Hand want.

No, I don't think it's going to change. I find that notion preposterous to be honest. The God Hand is a team. They are the one who made Griffith into Femto. Then they prepared the way for his incarnation (Conrad with the plague, Slan with the heretics... and I'm sure the others had their hand in it too). And after he acquired that body, what did he do? Do you really think his actions were solely to obtain a kingdom over which to rule? When Fantasia came to be, we saw each of them... That was not a coincidence or a side effect. So while we don't have the exact details of what they want, one thing we do know is that they're in it together. As peers serving the same master (the Idea of Evil).

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #88 on: November 29, 2015, 02:28:16 AM »
Well, the episodes aren't numbered in the volumes, Dark Horse or in the Japanese ones that only happens in the episodic releases. So  Ep 328 remains Ep 328, regardless of what happens with the order in the volumes after initial publication. Miura has swapped episode locations three times in the past (Vol 22: Snow, Flames & 1-2; Vol 29: Homing; and Vol 37: Spring Flower 1-3).

Ah, that's interesting to know, I wasn't aware that Miura has reordered Episode locations before for the tankōbon releases. I read the entire series in Spring 2014 through the Dark Horse releases so I was going by what I assumed the numbering would be in the volumes (which Wikipedia also uses as the basis for their list of episodes page as well, which I think most new readers go to before they discover this site).

Hoping your argument doesn't hinge on such things,  because they're of little meaning.

Oh, I wasn't trying to use that part of my post as part of my argument, I was just trying to clarify which episode I was referring to (Shooting Star) and why I had originally assumed it was Episode 328.


If you're wondering what human civilization will resemble after the few scattered remnants eke out an existence in a world they can't possibly live in, I  agree it'll be interesting to see.  :ubik:

Griffith's plan to herd humanity to one location only works if there is only one safe location. That being said, I wonder if Falconian forces will establish any "forward operating base" type structures as the war machine gathers momentum in the future if only to make things sustainable on a military campaign out in the frontier.

It would also be interesting to see how the merging also affected non-Holy See lands/countries (besides Skellig and the Bakiraka base) since we saw the "wind" affect the entire globe (and not just the Berserk-verse's Europe analogous area).

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #89 on: November 29, 2015, 02:31:38 AM »
(which Wikipedia also uses as the basis for their list of episodes page as well, which I think most new readers go to before they discover this site).

Here's ours: www.skullknight.net/manga

Speaking of which, that should be it for Vol 38!

Quote
It would also be interesting to see how the merging also affected non-Holy See lands/countries (besides Skellig and the Bakiraka base) since we saw the "wind" affect the entire globe (and not just the Berserk-verse's Europe analogous area).

I don't think that'd be of much value, since we didn't know about those territories to begin with, thus we have no basis for comparison about how drastic the change was. For all we know, those places aren't of much interest to readers.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #90 on: November 29, 2015, 02:54:15 AM »
Here's ours: www.skullknight.net/manga

Speaking of which, that should be it for Vol 38!

Thanks for the link, though if you don't mind me asking, shouldn't the entry for volume 37 have the reordering of the Shooting Star episode visually acknowledged like the entries for volumes 22 and 29/30 do?


I don't think that'd be of much value, since we didn't know about those territories to begin with, thus we have no basis for comparison about how drastic the change was. For all we know, those places aren't of much interest to readers.

Hmmm, I suppose you're right about it not having much narrative value. It was just some minute elements that I thought could be fun to speculate on, e.g. what the native Kushan lands might look like now back in central/south Asia (assuming their lands are analogous to the real historical Kushan Empire area).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 04:18:35 AM by Theozilla »

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #91 on: November 29, 2015, 03:55:39 AM »
Wow, what an episode!!!  Not diggin the filter they're using though, it's killing a lot of the detail, but then again I'm fine with pirate sources being a little substandard; feels like it encourages people to seek out the real thing.  It's really wrecking Casca's halftone.   :puck:

Thanks for the links and thanks to Puella for the translation!!!

I don't think that'd be of much value, since we didn't know about those territories to begin with, thus we have no basis for comparison about how drastic the change was. For all we know, those places aren't of much interest to readers.
Hmmm, I suppose you're right about it not having much narrative value. It was just some minute elements that I thought could be fun to speculate on, e.g. what the native Kushan lands might look like now back in central/south Asia (assuming thier lands are analogous to the real historical Kushan Empire area).

For the record if Berserk ends without ever going to the Berserk Americas I will have to go make them up.  FUKCIGN AZTEC APOSTLES RIDIN QUETZALCOATL MAN and just fuck all the other god hand would fucking love it there man oh man

I mean I know it's not the story Berserk is tellin but it would be so cool   :ubik:

*grabby hands*

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #92 on: November 29, 2015, 04:28:55 AM »
For the record if Berserk ends without ever going to the Berserk Americas I will have to go make them up.  FUKCIGN AZTEC APOSTLES RIDIN QUETZALCOATL MAN and just fuck all the other god hand would fucking love it there man oh man

I mean I know it's not the story Berserk is tellin but it would be so cool   :ubik:

*grabby hands*

Yeah speculating what other world cultures would be like in the Berserk-verse is always interesting, like are apostles appearances influenced influenced/vary by differing local cultures (as sorta seen with Rakshas). Or what lands the God Hand might have originated from when they were human. Such as like this fanartist's ideas:
http://wenliinvictus.tumblr.com/post/118198239363/a-quick-sketch-of-the-god-hand-in-their-human

Offline Salem

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #93 on: November 29, 2015, 04:18:28 PM »
Love that!^

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #94 on: November 29, 2015, 10:44:20 PM »
Ahh that's great!  Love Ubik.  And Disney-Frollo-Void.   :ganishka:

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #95 on: November 30, 2015, 02:17:49 AM »
New podcast is up:


Episode 70: Landing (Ep 342) (1h 24m)

At long last, we've reached the island of Skellig the doorstep of Elfhelm! Hear our impressions on this momentous occasion for Berserk, along with thoughts on what's around the corner for the series now that Miura has turned the page on the future.

Have a podcast-specific comment? Head on over over to our thread: http://www.skullknight.net/forum/index.php?topic=14863
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #96 on: November 30, 2015, 08:21:18 PM »
One thing I would sorta like clarification on are these lines from Isma's mother (from pages 9-10 of the episode):

Isma's mother: Puella's translation:...But it's not good to stay long here. (Evil_Genius' translation: However....I would not recommend lingering here for long.)
Isma's mother: Puella's translation: Because staying here means severance from the outer world. (Evil_Genius' translation: In other words to remain here, is to break with the outside world.)

Are we meant to take this line literally, as in staying on the island too long would mean that person would become physically unable to leave the island due to the island's magic (and if this is the case wouldn't Puck not have been able to leave in the first place?), or are we meant to take it more figuratively in that if a person stayed for a long time on the island they might as well be severing/breaking themselves off from the outside world due the time difference causing the outside world to likely be unrecognizable to the aforementioned individual (since far less time would have passed for them) but if they desired to, they could still physically leave the island?

I am guessing the situation is the latter, but I wanted to ask to in case were supposed to interpret it as the former.

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #97 on: November 30, 2015, 08:33:21 PM »
That seems quite straightforward to me, even without any useful knowledge of Japanese. Stay there too long and due to the time warp around the island, you'll become disconnected from the world you knew exactly like what happened with Pikaf.

Also, you can always trust Puella's translations. EG tends to localize more freely.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Theozilla

Re: Episode 342
« Reply #98 on: November 30, 2015, 08:47:41 PM »
That seems quite straightforward to me, even without any useful knowledge of Japanese. Stay there too long and due to the time warp around the island, you'll become disconnected from the world you knew exactly like what happened with Pikaf.

That's what I figured, but like with Pikaf, a person would still be capable of physically leaving the island if they wanted to (even if many decades had passed in the outside world), correct?

Offline Walter

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Re: Episode 342
« Reply #99 on: November 30, 2015, 08:53:03 PM »
That's what I figured, but like with Pikaf, a person would still be capable of physically leaving the island if they wanted to (even if many decades had passed in the outside world), correct?

Yes, exactly like Pikaf. It's about the passage of time not imprisonment.
:femto: :slan: :ubik: