Author Topic: Some questions about Apostles  (Read 2868 times)

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Offline Fonta

Some questions about Apostles
« on: March 14, 2016, 07:07:06 PM »
Hi guys! I'm at the fifth reading of Berserk (just can't find anything so good) and i have a few questions and theories about Apostles and apostle form to all the skillful veterans who write here.




: what is Ganishka's Apostle form? Is it the Mist one? because it just doesn't look like an apostle (you know: eyes, fangs, tentacles, scales.....) but like an astral manifestation that is more tipical of a Wizard, like the fire appearence of Flora.

:When Rochine is in his "MegaMoth" form she can reach supersonic speed. Is it because of the reactors she has on the back? I can't understand if she is something like a jet or can fly just because of her wings.

:Do we know something about horses? Because they're awesome!! I don't mean just the Skull Horse (who is the true hero IMHO  :badbone:). Also all the Demonic lancers and Zodd have wonderful horses, and some of them can join with them in apostle form but they look quite normal, aren't they?

:Can we consider Dakas apostles since they are Fetus corrupted by the artificial beherit?

: As far as i can understand there are three apostle forms:

The human one, which only a few apostles seems to have (locus, grunbeld, the count, the two insect knights and the baron snake)

The "freak form" : is non-transformed like human form but they just look freaky and not human: almost all apostles are like that (I don't think zodd's human form is that). For Wyald this should be his middle form.

The transformed form: no explanation needed

is it a right theory? Why some apostles can return to their human form and some can't?







Maybe everything is wrong or obvious but i wait for all your answers!!  :guts: :guts: :guts:



Offline Aazealh

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Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2016, 07:16:47 PM »
what is Ganishka's Apostle form? Is it the Mist one?

Yes it is.

When Rochine is in his "MegaMoth" form she can reach supersonic speed. Is it because of the reactors she has on the back? I can't understand if she is something like a jet or can fly just because of her wings.

Well those aren't really "reactors", but yes, that's why she can reach those speeds. It's not by flapping her wings.

Do we know something about horses? Because they're awesome!! I don't mean just the Skull Horse (who is the true hero IMHO  :badbone:). Also all the Demonic lancers and Zodd have wonderful horses, and some of them can join with them in apostle form but they look quite normal, aren't they?

The Skull Knight's horse is supernatural. Locus' horse and those of his men, however, are not as far as we know. We don't know how the transforming process works however, or whether the apostles have a supernatural influence on the beasts even when they're not transformed.

Can we consider Dakas apostles since they are Fetus corrupted by the artificial beherit?

Nope.

As far as i can understand there are three apostle forms:

The human one, which only a few apostles seems to have (locus, grunbeld, the count, the two insect knights and the baron snake)

The "freak form" : is non-transformed like human form but they just look freaky and not human: almost all apostles are like that (I don't think zodd's human form is that). For Wyald this should be his middle form.

The transformed form: no explanation needed

is it a right theory? Why some apostles can return to their human form and some can't?

No, that's not right. Things aren't classified like that. There's no "freak form". Some apostles just look more monstrous than others, even in their human forms. Some apostles are also plain uglier than others, whether they're transformed or not. And strength, skills and even their supernatural abilities (regeneration, various weird powers...) can wildly vary between individuals. Apostles just don't follow that specific a template. They come in different shapes or forms.

Offline Fonta

Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2016, 09:55:52 PM »

No, that's not right. Things aren't classified like that. There's no "freak form". Some apostles just look more monstrous than others, even in their human forms. Some apostles are also plain uglier than others, whether they're transformed or not. And strength, skills and even their supernatural abilities (regeneration, various weird powers...) can wildly vary between individuals. Apostles just don't follow that specific a template. They come in different shapes or forms.



Thank you for all the answer, just for the last i have a doubt.  Some Apostles return to their pre-ceremony form after death (for example wyald) but this is different from their human form, as if they decided to have a whole new body, transformed or not.
Most of them look human before and after becoming apostles (all Griffith leutenant look the same, but not zodd). So my question is: do you think apostles are offered the chance to change both their shapes, transformed and not?

Offline Walter

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Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2016, 11:45:40 PM »
Some Apostles return to their pre-ceremony form after death (for example wyald) but this is different from their human form,

No, all apostles whose deceased forms we've seen (Count and Wyald), returned to their human form in death. The reason for this is pretty simple: The vortex of souls reclaims the part that was promised to it, and imbued with evil -- the soul.

Quote
Most of them look human before and after becoming apostles (all Griffith leutenant look the same, but not zodd).

I think you're not remembering things correctly. Locus is the most human looking one. All the others have demonic or otherworldly features, even in their most basic forms.

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So my question is: do you think apostles are offered the chance to change both their shapes, transformed and not?

No, I think their inner desires are what manifest their form, and they don't have the ability to customize it.
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Offline Fonta

Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2016, 09:11:41 PM »

I think you're not remembering things correctly. Locus is the most human looking one. All the others have demonic or otherworldly features, even in their most basic forms.



It seems to me that Locus, grunbeld and irvine looked like now even when they kneeled to griffith (and i'm pretty sure they were still human) and that Grunbeld's size and Irvine's white eyes are just their human features, am i wrong?

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2016, 09:19:14 PM »
Some Apostles return to their pre-ceremony form after death (for example wyald) but this is different from their human form, as if they decided to have a whole new body, transformed or not.

Well becoming an apostle transforms them, that much is obvious. We say they have a "human form", but it's "human-like". They're still monsters. Whereas when they die, as Walter said, their corpse reverts to its actual original form, when they were truly human.

It seems to me that Locus, grunbeld and irvine looked like now even when they kneeled to griffith (and i'm pretty sure they were still human) and that Grunbeld's size and Irvine's white eyes are just their human features, am i wrong?

You are indeed absolutely wrong. They've been apostles since long before their introduction in the series. I have trouble understanding how one could even be confused about such a thing.

Offline Fonta

Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2016, 08:10:31 AM »


You are indeed absolutely wrong. They've been apostles since long before their introduction in the series.


Weird, i thought that they were still humans (Locus says he's just arrived by following the oracle), is there any passage where can we understand they are already apostles?




I have trouble understanding how one could even be confused about such a thing.

Howewer, your tolerance is so great, thank you very much!!!! <3

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2016, 10:00:53 AM »
Weird, i thought that they were still humans (Locus says he's just arrived by following the oracle), is there any passage where can we understand they are already apostles?

Locus came because he had a dream from the Falcon of Light, same as everyone else. That's what "oracle" refers to in that sentence. And Locus' introduction features his lance magically growing in size and killing over a half dozen men... It's clear pretty much right away that he's not human, same as all the others. Zodd, Locus, Rakshas, Grunbeld and then all the other apostles converge to Griffith at that specific time, in Shet.

Offline Walter

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Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 01:34:18 PM »
is there any passage where can we understand they are already apostles?

Do you really think they arrived as humans, and one by one had tragic incidents on the Kushan campaign trail that led them to sacrifice people and then become apostles? What would the timeline for this be?
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Offline ApostleBob

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Re: Some questions about Apostles
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 03:11:34 PM »
Most of the world's apostles were drawn to Griffith to serve in his army.  Ganishka even muses about this while on the way back from visiting princess Charlotte.  The way the apostles, who are relatively few in number (maybe 500) decimate armies in the thousands is what draws the people of midland together and recruits all the human soldiers we see them with later.  You'll note that the human soldiers in the Band of the Falcon are all fairly uniform. Locus, Grunbeld, Rakshas, and Zodd (and we assume Irvine) are all legendary soldiers from before they were transformed.  One can assume that their heroic status continued to grow after they became apostles as they became one man armies.

Don't let the fact that some appear human fool you. It's pretty clear in the story, and they all have white pupils as well, if not animalistic eyes.