Author Topic: Can Griffith be redeemed?  (Read 19765 times)

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Offline ANAZARE2

Can Griffith be redeemed?
« on: September 06, 2004, 09:07:08 PM »
keep in mind i have not read the manga, so i don't know about the the built up tension, and do not really intend to read them immediately because i don't yet know kanji. but i wonder if guts and griffith will ever be friends again. would a final chapter have the two reconcile and destroy god hand together or pit guts and griffith against each other? that's what i wonder about any of the avid readers speculate. i'd love to hear your opinions. thanks.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2004, 08:19:39 AM by Aazealh »

Offline DemonX

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2004, 09:58:24 PM »
I am sure Guts and Griffith will never be friends again. Think of them as Magneto and Professor X of the X-men.

Griffith tried to kill Guts for his own ambition. Guts left Griffith in order to become his equal. They are complete opposites in every way, physically and mentally. I will have a hard time seeing Guts site with someone who betrayed him, took away his eye, raped his girlfriend, and almost killed him. I mean, he only has two reasons why he still fights to be alive and keeps going, 1.To protect Casca, and 2.To have his vengence agains't Griffith.
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Offline ANAZARE2

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2004, 04:31:33 AM »
Hey DemonX. Thanks for the thoughts.
Just some more to add. i am sure there's going to be a showdown eventually. god hand is all-powerful; guts taking them on all by himself sounds kind of crazy. If he were to fight them in a decisive battle, I can only imagine it will be with another warrior or two who're equal with him. I am cheering for the possibility griffith (obviously i'm a fan of his) repents and atones for everything at the last moment, somehow...

any more comments? i'd love to hear them.

Offline C

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2004, 05:12:54 AM »
i personally dont think griffith will be redeemed,

if he does change his mind i think what will happen will be like the count,

he would be drug to hell :(,

but why would he try to be guts's friend again and make up? ???

most of what griffith knew is gone and destroyed, except guts and Casca, etc.,

the only possible thing i think could happen is he trying to get close to him again only to kill him :-X,

remember, griffith sacrificed him to begin with, theres not really a way to turn back from there that we know of,

of course theres alot that we dont ;D


 - c

Offline Sparnage

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2004, 05:27:41 AM »
There is the possibility that towards the end that we will see some kind of moment will arise in the story where Guts and Griffith see eachother as friends one last time before one of them dies, even if it is only briefly.

Being "redeemed" is probably a too strong word for him though.

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2004, 06:54:05 PM »
What are you guys talking about? They ARE friends.  Think of Griffith's speech on the stairs.
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Offline IV

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2004, 07:12:47 PM »
Maybe in griffith's eyes, but I'm not sure that wanting to exact revenge is freindship on guts' part. :-\

Online Walter

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2004, 07:16:19 PM »
Maybe in griffith's eyes, but I'm not sure that wanting to exact revenge is freindship on guts' part. :-\
Are you sure that's what's on Guts' mind at this very moment? Think outside the box.
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Offline IV

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2004, 08:26:26 PM »
I agree that Guts may reflect on the friendship that they once shared, but due to the recent events, it just seems that guts will continue to find these acts unforgivable.  So I suppose deep, and I mean really deep down I suppose he still veiws him as a friend, but I think his rage towards him drowns it out. :)

Offline C

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2004, 09:10:34 PM »
didnt griffith say he could only consider an equal a friend?

do you think he considers guts his equal now?

 - c

Offline DemonX

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2004, 09:11:45 PM »
What are you guys talking about? They ARE friends.  Think of Griffith's speech on the stairs.

I dont think Guts is anywhere near to be griffiths equal. Griffith has a whole bunch of CAUSALITY on his side and has astreal powers. Guts on the other hand has come far, but not far enough. Griffith is still way out of Guts league, for now.

Quote
So I suppose deep, and I mean really deep down I suppose he still veiws him as a friend, but I think his rage towards him drowns it out.  

I find that very interesting because I remember there was somthing guts said after the 2nd eclipes right before the fight with zodd (vol 22 ch1)

"I looked at him, and for a second... I forgot to kill him"
« Last Edit: September 08, 2004, 09:46:43 PM by DemonX »
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Offline All_4_Yume

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2004, 04:52:54 AM »

I dont think Guts is anywhere near to be griffiths equal. Griffith has a whole bunch of casulty on his side and has astreal powers. Guts on the other hand has come far, but not far enough. Griffith is still way out of Guts league, for now.

  I'm pretty sure that's not what Griffith meant when he was talking about friendship/equals.  He meant it in Guts pursuing his own dream like he is.  In reality Guts became Griffith's equal/true friend when he left the Hawks.  Unfortunately Griffith couldn't handle that. 


I find that very interesting because I remember there was somthing guts said after the 2nd eclipes right before the fight with zodd (vol 22 ch1)

"I looked at him, and for a second... I forgot to kill him"

  There's probably some little trace of feelings left (as some extraordinary circumstances made them enemies) but like someone said Guts rage gets in the way and rightfully so.  However another awesome quote near that one in the story is when Guts tells Rickert "You can't hate Griffith."  Although that may Guts subconscious thoughts on his on quest for revenge and he's trying keep Rickert from the same fate as him.   
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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2004, 05:34:35 PM »
Griffith has a whole bunch of casulty on his side and has astreal powers.
As far as I know, Griffith's Apostle Army has sustained very few injuries and the only major loss to his troops has been... Ohhhh oh wait! You meant CAUSALITY! You know, for a minute there, I thought you meant CASUALTIES. But that would have been something completely different. Wouldn't it?

Quote
I find that very interesting because I remember there was somthing guts said after the 2nd eclipes right before the fight with zodd (vol 22 ch1)

"I looked at him, and for a second... I forgot to kill him"
Yes. Amazingly enough, Guts is, believe it or not, more complex than most people give him credit for.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Sparnage

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2004, 06:27:34 PM »
What are you guys talking about? They ARE friends.  Think of Griffith's speech on the stairs.

I don't need to say the circumstances have changed a bit since then, the problem is well beyond a dream.
Ok there is the fact that it's more than revenge and Guts probably wouldn't be so hurt if he didn't care so much for him and all, but a friend killing all the people you care about and raping your girlfriend in front of you can really ruin a friendship. 

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2004, 04:51:58 PM »


I don't need to say the circumstances have changed a bit since then, ... a friend killing all the people you care about and raping your girlfriend in front of you can really ruin a friendship. 
To me, it's a more complicated relationship than:

Guts: "I'm never inviting THAT asshole over for dinner ever again! Remember what happened last time?!"
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Offline KuraiDragoon

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2004, 03:47:38 AM »
Damn those cross-dimensional dinner parties..
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Offline Kyosuke

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2004, 04:46:45 AM »

To me, it's a more complicated relationship than:

Guts: "I'm never inviting THAT asshole over for dinner ever again! Remember what happened last time?!"

Yeah a bit...

Anyway *spoilers*...







...when you sacrifice your humanity and everything you hold sacred to the incarnation of evil itself in order to fufill you dreams, there's generally no going back from that. Guts knows Griffiths true face, he knows his desires and goals, and having once been so close to him they have polarized as only those who share a bond as deep and close as Griffith and Guts once shared can become.

They've both changed and they both know that there is no going back now. Those bridges have already been burnt.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 04:49:11 AM by Kyosuke »

Offline Nomad

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2004, 08:11:11 AM »
never say never...

Offline waqas

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2004, 09:19:00 PM »
...when you sacrifice your humanity and everything you hold sacred to the incarnation of evil itself in order to fufill you dreams, there's generally no going back from that. Guts knows Griffiths true face, he knows his desires and goals, and having once been so close to him they have polarized as only those who share a bond as deep and close as Griffith and Guts once shared can become.

They've both changed and they both know that there is no going back now. Those bridges have already been burnt.

It may be true that Griffith has damned is soul when he made the pact with the God Hand but that does not mean he can't be redeemed in the eyes of those who once loved him. I believe the Count from the early chapters is a good example of this.

Right before he was dragged off to Hell he was given a chance to sacrifice his daughter in order to save himself but he chose not to. For that reason I believe theresia forgave her father for what he did to her mother and for what he had become. And instead turned her anger against Guts. Well, ok, she may not have entirely understood what was going on, but at the very least the Count redeemed himself to us, the audience.

PS. Hello everyone. :D
« Last Edit: September 14, 2004, 09:22:14 PM by waqas »

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Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2004, 02:09:30 AM »


It may be true that Griffith has damned is soul when he made the pact with the God Hand but that does not mean he can't be redeemed in the eyes of those who once loved him. I believe the Count from the early chapters is a good example of this.

Right before he was dragged off to Hell he was given a chance to sacrifice his daughter in order to save himself but he chose not to. For that reason I believe theresia forgave her father for what he did to her mother and for what he had become. And instead turned her anger against Guts. Well, ok, she may not have entirely understood what was going on, but at the very least the Count redeemed himself to us, the audience.


Aw man, shit. Now you got this scean in my head now of griff saying sorry and stuff in a sad dramatic way to guts and in the end guts forgiving him (everyone all teary and stuff), until griff is dragged down to hell forever  :'(.

PS. Hello everyone. :D

Welcome back :D.
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Offline C

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2004, 03:28:32 AM »
i think it is possible griffith might regret what he has done,

and possible guts might forgve him in the end,

but i dont see any crying or sob stories,

i see maybe a look of respect, a meeting of the eyes before griffith, or guts, or both kick the proverbial (excellent :D) bucket,

and then a tear would fall in the bucket  :-X

 - c  ;)

Offline Rammsoldat

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2004, 07:03:52 PM »
i dunno about the re-born griffith (im not that far in as i didnt get the scans and now i dont plan to) but femto didnt seem too bothered about guts to me. the whole "oh its you, are you still alive" line kinda throws his prspects of makin up into doubt.


btw, Hello all this is my first post. Glad to be here on a forum where people talk about my favorite story.

Offline Sparnage

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2004, 07:25:55 PM »
i dunno about the re-born griffith (im not that far in as i didnt get the scans and now i dont plan to) but femto didnt seem too bothered about guts to me. the whole "oh its you, are you still alive" line kinda throws his prspects of makin up into doubt.


btw, Hello all this is my first post. Glad to be here on a forum where people talk about my favorite story.

.... You are like the second new person who recently joined and already has a custom title!

Offline C

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2004, 11:42:14 PM »
yeah, i want a custom title too!  :(

Offline Shane

Re: can griffith be redeemed?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2004, 12:00:55 AM »
yeah, i want a custom title too!  :(
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