Vote Osama in '04?

Griffith · October 30, 2004

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/29/binladen.tape/index.html

Compare the things Osama says to the response of our awesome President(s) to be. Not only does he come out looking smarter, he looks more rational, level-headed, and humanitarian even, OUCH! Yeah, so go ahead and vote Osama, he's easily the most qualified when it comes to leadership skills (he sure kicked our ass), and sadly, he's probably being more honest too. =)

skeletonmf · October 30, 2004

damn. some shit bout to go down.

Sparnage · October 30, 2004

Ahahaha, now thats a worry. ;D

I didn't see the clips as it was asking weird shit, but from what I read it's sad to admit that Bush is currently looking like his bitch. I would like to hear what Bush and Kerry have to say to argue against those comments.

Funny how U.S. officials wouldn't show everything on the tape....

skeletonmf said:
damn. some shit bout to go down.

Not necessarily, the thing about Binladen is that he seems to be a very patient person. As the report says he made statements about the twin towers in 1982... almost 20 years before waiting to strike is a long time to wait.

medievald00d · October 30, 2004

10 i believe...the WTC was bombed in 93 i think

Aazealh · October 30, 2004

Sparnage said:
Funny how U.S. officials wouldn't show everything on the tape....

They do that with almost every "tape" or whatever they get actually.

Anyway, it's true that from what I read of that article (not much), Bin Laden seems to make more sense than the Bush administration, he even didn't look aggressive, like "we'll have to defend ourselves, if you guys don't stop attacking us". One sure thing is that they've got good communication skills.

skeletonmf · October 30, 2004

he WAS a patient man, but his patience has already ran out. i'm thinking he might try to pull some shit soon.

our leaders are just as bad as our enemy. the difference between osama and bush is osama is not intent on hunting down the one's mostly responsible for the murder of his people. doesnt seem like revenge is all that important to him. it's this obsession with the dead the american people have that keeps us going, but all we accomplish is killing more of our people by sending them over there. hunting down a few terrorist isnt going to bring anyone back. it's just gonna piss off more people.

Mage · October 30, 2004

Around 40% of the country irrationally believes we were attacked because "they hate our way of life." It was obvious before that if that was the case, more hedonistic countries that were easier targets would be attacked instead...now that he says it himself, it kind of makes the issue clear. A shame no news network will actually analyze what's being said...they'll just get their "experts" to discuss bin laden's beard and how its length correlates with his state of well-being and why he chose now and why he mentions the damn goat.

Jon Stewart '08

Griffith · October 30, 2004

Mage said:
Around 40% of the country irrationally believes we were attacked because "they hate our way of life." It was obvious before that if that was the case, more hedonistic countries that were easier targets would be attacked instead...

That’s not completely true. It's not about hedonism necessarily, but about how our way of life threatens a good Muslim life. Osama is Western educated so he knows this better than anyone. And assuming Osama is telling the truth (despite my earlier post, I wouldn’t count it =), it may not even be possible to “stop attacking” or withdraw from the Middle East by their standards. For example, if some Muslim extremist groups feel that Israel is simply a Western colony, and some certainly do, then it’s not like we can do anything about that. If we told Israel we we’re going to dismantle their state, they’d nuke everything in sight. Probably why nobody gives them that much shit outside of Palestine, the Arabs probably still remember how badly the Israelis kicked their asses before.

Anyway, there’s about a million more complicated examples of why nothings going to change anytime soon, the main one being: people are assholes.

Mage · October 30, 2004

"Griffith No More!" said:
That’s not completely true. It's not about hedonism necessarily, but about how our way of life threatens a good Muslim life. Osama is Western educated so he knows this better than anyone.

I think our manipulating middle eastern governments and strong-arming certain factions that oppress the population threatens them more than western culture's expansion (if that's what you mean by 'way of life'). Coming from that background, knowing the people there, and speaking to the ones who also come here to the US, culture vs culture is not the issue; foreign policy is. The vast majority don't even hold grudges against the American people, only its government. And most of the few fundamentalists don't care at all what non-Muslims believe. But Muslims are instructed by the Quran to reject oppression and kill those who are oppressing them. As you might have noticed, these guys aren't discriminating at all in Iraq...Muslims/Westerners/Asians alike, they're killing them all, because they're supporting an American occupation, directly or indirectly, however peaceful they may personally be. This is their viewpoint and the excuse they make when it's pointed out that killing innocent people is forbidden. This was the same exact reasoning Bin Laden used in his supposed 'letter to the American people' that was sent out last year...that Americans, by allowing their government to take the actions it did, are complicit and therefore not innocent.

I can see your point how the possibility is that they hate how western culture has infiltrated their lives and they see that as a threat to Islamic fundamentalism...but it's very minor compared to everything else that has happened in the region since British colonialism and our Cold War machinations and insignificant in my experience.

Griffith · October 30, 2004

Now that was an awesome post, and I thank you for not being harsher on me considering your first-hand knowledge of the situation. ^_^;

The only thing I have to add to my point is that while foreign policy may be the issue for the typical Middle Easterner, it's not necessarily going to make a difference to those who actually attack the United States and others. I don't blame them for attacking, or the people of the Middle East for celebrating when they're successful in their attacks, and I know many of the “soldiers” are exercising their right to defend themselves from those they see as their oppressors. But, as far as the extremist attackers go, particularly the men at the top, there's no way to know what their standard of non-oppression is, or when they'll stop, as you say, using that as an excuse for killing people. We can’t trust that if we compromise our positions and “give in to demands,” that we won’t still be attacked by rogue groups that still feel we haven’t done enough. I’m sure there are similar reservations about us, and with extremists on both sides of the struggle for “peace”, none wanting to back down or trust that the other…

Hey, if the World can’t figure out the answer, I certainly don’t have one. But it looks like the policy on both sides right now is to kill each other and let God and Allah sort it out.

Venus · October 31, 2004

"Griffith No More!" said:
Hey, if the World can’t figure out the answer, I certainly don’t have one. But it looks like the policy on both sides right now is to kill each other and let God and Allah sort it out.

the best post Ive'd read in this community in regards to this forsaken war...
you have my respect Griff... so don't fuck it up

;)

DarkShurikn · October 31, 2004

"Griffith No More!" said:
people are assholes.

I thought I was the only one thinking that..

trenchteam · November 2, 2004

"Griffith No More!" said:
, the main one being: people are assholes.

That makes the most sense out of all this chaos. Seriously.

Griffith · November 2, 2004

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html

Wow, another home run for Osama, I think he's above Nader in the polls (he's a lesser evil in any case)! And notice there's nothing in that article from the administration denying the truth of what he's saying. ;D

I love that picture too...

"I told you so, America."

Vampire_Hunter_Bob · November 2, 2004

"Griffith No More!" said:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html

So he attacked the United States to make us bankrupt? Gee, he attacked us, which forced us to kick the shit out of the country helping him [a country that was officially Muslim] then saying how he was doing that in-defense of Muslim countries. Osama so far has brought more hardship on Muslims indirectly then most people have directly. Gee what a flip flopper.

MaN · November 2, 2004

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Gee what a flip flopper.

Wow I can't believe that there would come a day when people would be quoting Bush... bice way to tie this to the election campaign!

I think the people in US are nice but they have been until recently oblivious of how the US policies are affecting them right now. It really is the way some of you have said it. The people back home hate America because of the government and its flip-flopping and partial use of force blah blah...

Griffith dude! I agree that you can't just wipe Israel of the face of the earth but US weilds a lot of power right now and they seem to do whatever they want (look at iraq) so we can pressure israel if we wanted... but I guess then liberating the peole of 'iraqistan' would be hard to sell to the world. Its just amazing that governments here do not realize that America's unilateral support of Israel is the singlemost important issue to all Muslims, in this country and abroad. I would say even more than Iraq... that will sort itself out... like Vietnam... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

I am naturalized but my ideas aren't I guess. :-\ and well Berkeley is as left as it gets ;D

xechnao · November 3, 2004

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
So he attacked the United States to make us bankrupt? Gee, he attacked us, which forced us to kick the shit out of the country helping him [a country that was officially Muslim] then saying how he was doing that in-defense of Muslim countries. Osama so far has brought more hardship on Muslims indirectly then most people have directly. Gee what a flip flopper.

"It is the Oil, Stupid!"

by Joseph Clifford
The Russians got into their Vietnam right after we got out of ours? Isn't that strange?

We supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians? Isn't that strange?

As late as 1998 the US was paying the salary of every single Taliban official in Afghanistan? Isn't that strange?

There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi Arabia, but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil out. Isn't that strange?

UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000 mile long pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea. Isn't that strange?

UNOCAL spent $10,000,000,000 on geological surveys for pipeline construction, and very nicely courted the Taliban for their support in allowing the construction to begin. Isn't that strange?

All of the leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with UNOCAL in 1998. Isn't that strange?

1998-1999 the Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country and awarded the pipeline project to a company from Argentina. Isn't that strange?

John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no pipeline until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was established. Isn't that strange?

1999-2000 The Taliban became the most evil people in the world. Isn't that strange?

Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Isn't that strange?

9/11 WTC disaster.
Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the hijackers came from Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?

Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying it?s a "secret". Isn't that strange?

Taliban offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden if we showed them some proof. We refused; we bombed. Isn't that strange?

Bush said: "This is not about nation building. It's about getting the terrorists." Isn't that strange?

We have a new government in Afghanistan. Isn't that strange?

The leader of that government formerly worked for UNOCAL. Isn't that strange?

Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to deal with that new government, who formerly was the "chief consultant to UNOCAL". Isn't that strange?

The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil? Isn't that strange?

Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an oil company before going to Washington. Isn't that strange?

George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group" specializing in huge oil investments around the world. Isn't that strange?

Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before gong to Washington. Isn't that strange?

Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after Condoleezza. Isn't that strange?

Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate Haliburton before becoming VP. Isn't that strange?

Haliburton gave Cheney $34 Million dollars as a farewell gift when he left Haliburton. Isn't that strange?

Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business. Isn't that strange?

There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the Caspian Sea area. Isn't that strange?

The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we will support the construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline. Isn't that strange?

President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karrzai, (Afghanistan -Unocal) announce agreement to build proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to Pakistan via Afghanistan. (Irish Times 02/10/02) Isn't that strange?

"It?s the Oil, Stupid!"
Mr. Joseph Clifford contributed above article to Media Monitors Network (MMN) from James Town, Rhode Island, USA

Vampire_Hunter_Bob · November 3, 2004

xechnao said:
"It is the Oil, Stupid!"

Yeah sure whatever. ::)

waqas · November 3, 2004

Vampire_Hunter_Bob said:
Yeah sure whatever. ::)

There are those who disagree with you. Here's a link to an interview with an Iraq vet who was told by one of his senior officers that "You’re not going to make Iraq safe for democracy ... You are going for one reason alone: oil...".

Here's the full article:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/11/10_400.html

Vampire_Hunter_Bob · November 3, 2004

waqas said:
There are those who disagree with you. Here's a link to an interview with an Iraq vet who was told by one of his senior officers that "You’re not going to make Iraq safe for democracy ... You are going for one reason alone: oil...".

Here's the full article:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2004/11/10_400.html

I don't disagree about Iraq, but as far as Afghanistan goes we went there to get Bin Laden. I'll stick to that.

Griffith · November 4, 2004

"We Need the Oil, Stupid!"

Oh wait, I forgot, the World can run on positive feelings and happy thoughts! ;D

xechnao · November 4, 2004

"Griffith No More!" said:
"We Need the Oil, Stupid!"

Who is "we"?
World could run with fewer oil, but this would be against the profits of some right now

Griffith · November 4, 2004

xechnao said:
Who is "we"?
World could run with fewer oil, but this would be against the profits of some right now

The United States (all that matters to me or should matter to the President).

As for who profits, I do for one. I get the benefit of cars, plastics, food, medical care, manufacturing, R&D, modern technology, and everthing else (too many to name)that I wouldn't (and you wouldn't) have without oil. So Bush and his buddies were smart enough to know the World runs on oil and now they get to profit from it, and he can make sure of that as President (as well as getting to run everything else in God damned the World). Hell, I'm jealous too.

Aazealh · November 4, 2004

"Griffith No More!" said:
I get the benefit of cars

Cars could run without oil just fine, if the various technologies that allow to do it weren't being kept in some Swiss stronghold somewhere by some Big Oil Companies.

"Griffith No More!" said:
plastics, food, medical care, manufacturing, R&D, modern technology, and everthing else (too many to name)that I wouldn't (and you wouldn't) have without oil.

That's like 0.01% of the international oil consumption. Fuel takes up the rest.

"Griffith No More!" said:
So Bush and his buddies were smart enough to know the World runs on oil and now they get to profit from it

Smart enough to keep things as they are to earn more and more money, because who fucking cares what will happen in 50 years ? He'll be dead already, sitting right next to God and stuff.

Griffith · November 4, 2004

Aazealh said:
Smart enough to keep things as they are to earn more and more money, because who fucking cares what will happen in 50 years ? He'll be dead already, sitting right next to God and stuff.

Right-o

Vote Osama in '04?

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