Jumping fish

I would like to ask if you find a conection among the "jumping fish" entry in the glossary section and the event of a "jumping" fish that Guts cut in half with a sword in a cascade, while forcing his vision off...

Would this also have to do with Godo's remarks upon Guts' mistake on focusing on the sword of vengence while failing to watch for and see other things? (for example Caska?)

And something else:
If moon symbolizes the ideal world, ain't this further evidence that the moonchild was created by Caska's consciousness while she approached on the astral realm (ocean)?
If this is true, does this mean that Caska's ego could find anchoring points of existence in the ideal world? After all she seems to have lost some of it in the physical world ;D
 
SaiyajinNoOuji said:
To lazy to link it but there is already a topic on the whole jumping fish metaphore.  8)

Oh, thanks
I' ve done a search now and found it
Anyway, although I hadn't check those threads before, this one is kind of on a different question...a bit
Aaz could link them together anyway 
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
xechnao said:
I would like to ask if you find a conection among the "jumping fish" entry in the glossary section and the event of a "jumping" fish that Guts cut in half with a sword in a cascade, while forcing his vision off...

No, I don't think it relates.

xechnao said:
Would this also have to do with Godo's remarks upon Guts' mistake on focusing on the sword of vengence while failing to watch for and see other things? (for example Casca?)

I don't think it does, Godot just tells Guts that he's mistaken on what his priorities are.

xechnao said:
If moon symbolizes the ideal world, ain't this further evidence that the moonchild was created by Casca's consciousness while she approached on the astral realm (ocean)?
If this is true, does this mean that Casca's ego could find anchoring points of existence in the ideal world? After all she seems to have lost some of it in the physical world ;D

I also don't think this has to do with the Jumping Fish analogy, I'd rather relate it to the layers of the world problem. From what we know of it though, Casca shouldn't be able to attain the Ideal part of the world while being alive.

xechnao said:
Anyway, although I hadn't check those threads before, this one is kind of on a different question...a bit
Aaz could link them together anyway

The threads are indeed different, hence the different sections they are in. So I'll let them like that I think.

Anyway, the Encyclopedia entry isn't correct (as I told Walter last week).

Skull Knight ponders that Guts, like him, is "like a jumping fish in a flowing river that can obscure the moon's reflection on the water below."
The space between these two would be the Astral world.

These parts are wrong, or at least just an assumption for the second one. As for correct stuff:

Slan states about Skull Knight during the Occultation that a Jumping Fish cannot alter the flow of the river. She means that even though Skull Knight succeeds in acting against or without following causality, he always falls back to the river eventually, can't escape it, and can't really affect it.

Skull Knight is the Fish, Causality is the River.

Skull Knight then tells Guts in Albion that this world is like the moon's shadow reflected on the water, and that he might not just be a shadow reflected on the surface of the water but a fish creating ripples.

It implies that Guts can affect the events of the world, and not only undergo them. This is shown in episode 166 (Jumping Fish) when Isidro and the others succeed in saving Casca from the stake.

You might note that it would mean the Ideal world is the moon, quite untouchable for a fish, and that no matter how much you stir the water, the moon's image comes back as the same in the end, irremediably.

Hope that clears some things up.
 
Aazealh said:
I also don't think this has to do with the Jumping Fish analogy, I'd rather relate it to the layers of the world problem.
Yes, this is where I relate it too...I posted here because of this being mentioned in the jump fish entry

Aazealh said:
Slan states about Skull Knight during the Occultation that a Jumping Fish cannot alter the flow of the river. She means that even thought Skull Knight succeeds in acting against or without following causality, he always falls back to the river eventually, can't escape it, and can't really affect it.

Skull Knight is the Fish, Causality is the River.

Skull Knight then tells Guts in Albion that this world is like the moon's shadow reflected on the water, and that he might not just be a shadow reflected on the surface of the water but a fish creating ripples.

It implies that Guts can affect the events of the world, and not only undergo them. This is shown in episode 166 (Jumping Fish) when Isidro and the others succeed in saving Casca from the stake.

You might note that it would mean the Ideal world is the moon, quite untouchable for a fish, and that no matter how much you stir the water, the moon's image comes back as the same in the end, irremediably.

Hope that clears some things up.

So, are you saying that Guts has kinda more affecting possibility on the world *or the base of reference of causality* than Skullknight
Something like saying that Guts is a free willed man -one that still has his choices to be seen- in contrast with Skullknight who should be just a shadow or a mere principle of the world
 

Aazealh

Administrator
Staff member
xechnao said:
Yes, this is where I relate it too...I posted here because of this being mentioned in the jump fish entry

Ok, would be better in another, more specific thread though (there are several on the subject I think).

xechnao said:
Something like saying that Guts is a free willed man -one that still has his choices to be seen- in contrast with Skullknight who should be just a shadow or a mere principle of the world

Well, no... Where did you see that? Skull Knight and Guts are the same here, both are "fish" that manage to have an impact on things, SK more than Guts until now. Slan calls SK a "jumping fish", and SK tells Guts he might be a fish creating ripples and not a mere shadow.

There are just two slightly different and nuanced references and I tried to explain the two.
 
Aazealh said:
There are just two slightly different and nuanced references and I tried to explain the two.

I think I see it now
For Sk is the jumping while for Gutts the ripples
A fish that jumps doesn't necessarily create lots of ripples (if it ends very gently in the water) while a fish that creates ripples doesn't necessarily need to jump (if it moves very abruptly, even bellow the surface he can create ripples too)
 
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