Author Topic: The "od" in Guts  (Read 2411 times)

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Offline Colt

The "od" in Guts
« on: June 08, 2006, 04:47:31 PM »
Hiya there... hehe, im new at this as you can see... but the most important thing is, that we all are true fans of BERSERK!!! (long live K.M.)


Right, i just wanted to ask you people, what do you think abut the internal force of Guts, using the termns of Schierke... the "od" apparently it is the hate, and most of all, the vengeance feeling burning within Guts...

we also know that the apostles were once humans, weak in both, mental and spiritual ways, so, they can only reborn as apostles afther they draw all these pathetic feelings aside.

The god hand members, although they represent the strongest demon kings among all, they probably were as weak and desperate as Grifith was at the moment of the eclipse.

and now my question (hehe sry...) The "od" in Guts represents a powerfull feeling, constantly fed by the wish of survival and revenge of Guts, so, that means (at least is what i think) that Guts will never use his Beherit..

... Is it this "od" even more strong than the Beherit it self, and more intriguer, is it more than the god hand members??????
"The less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice"

Offline IsolatioN

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Re: The "od" in Guts
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2006, 06:35:22 PM »
I don't think anyone can really know for sure until it happens. As I see it, Guts' inner turmoil is what powers him onwards. Not only to restore his limbs, and Casca's mind, but to allow the Band of the Hawk to be avenged, so to speek.

But that urge to get revenge could be so powerfull that Guts is willing to almost "blindly" pursue any thing that will allow him to get a better chance at defeating the God Hand.

I don't really get what your asking, though. Is Guts' will power strong enough for him not to become an apostle? I think so. Either way, we don't know if those who are branded can even become apostles. Personally, I don't think Guts would ever become an apostle since it goes against what he's been fighting so hard for. And while he definetly has a strong will power, that alone won't be able to defeat the God Hand. My guess is in the future he'll get more "power ups" like the armor, that will give him a better chance.

Meh, just me sort of rambling, someone probably is going to come in and correct everything I said hehe. Thats just how I see it anyways, but I still don't really get what your asking.

Online Walter

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Re: The "od" in Guts
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2006, 06:37:04 PM »
Welcome to the forums Colt :guts:

we also know that the apostles were once humans, weak in both, mental and spiritual ways, so, they can only reborn as apostles afther they draw all these pathetic feelings aside.
Sorry, but that's an overgeneralization.  Your definition doesn't apply to the Count, who even as an Apostle was unable to let go of his love for his daughter.  And what do you mean by "weak in both mental and spiritual ways" ?  I think Locus and Irvine among others would take offence at that.  :puck: And calling urges for humanity "pathetic" ?  Are you some kind of psychopath?  :serpico:

and now my question (hehe sry...) The "od" in Guts represents a powerfull feeling, constantly fed by the wish of survival and revenge of Guts, so, that means (at least is what i think) that Guts will never use his Beherit..

... Is it this "od" even more strong than the Beherit it self, and more intriguer, is it more than the god hand members??????
What you saw of Guts' od when Schierke was "inside" him was under the influence of the Beast.  That being the case, it was a little biased towards revenge and all those negative traits the Beast tends to draw out.  In the end, it was his drive to protect Casca that woke him from the Beast's jaws. It's an even stronger devotion than those afformentioned urges. 

For what you're really asking, a more direct question would be "does Guts have a strong will?" And the answer is obviously yes. It's even been noted by Apostles and God Hand on several occasions.  Bringing Od into it is a little indirect, I think. It's certainly too unclear and indirect to compare to God Hand members.

I don't think anyone can really know for sure until it happens. As I see it, Guts' inner turmoil is what powers him onwards. Not only to restore his limbs,
Restore his limbs? Where'd you get that idea?

But that urge to get revenge could be so powerfull that Guts is willing to almost "blindly" pursue any thing that will allow him to get a better chance at defeating the God Hand.
Apparently not, since Guts has been devoted to protecting Casca since volume 17.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline IsolatioN

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Re: The "od" in Guts
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2006, 07:03:58 PM »
Haha, Well I really don't know. I really shouldn't be hanging out over in Speculation Nation anyways since I've really only read up to 15.. :carcus:
« Last Edit: June 09, 2006, 01:19:10 AM by IsolatioN »

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The "od" in Guts
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2006, 09:24:24 PM »
Hey Colt, welcome! :badbone:

the "od"  apparently it is the hate, and most of all, the vengeance feeling burning within Guts... [...] Is it this "od" even more strong than the Beherit it self, and more intriguer, is it more than the god hand members?

You're mistaken about what Od is, so let me explain it briefly. Have you ever heard of the concept of Ki, the universal life force present in everything in the universe? Basically, that's what the Od is in Berserk. Everything has an Od. Places, people, spirits, objects, etc. Guts has an Od, Schierke, Casca, Isidro, and the average guy also do. The Qliphoth had one, as does the Berserk's armor. It isn't the manifestation of hate or vengeance, and the "burning" you're referring to is actually related to the Berserk's Armor more than to Guts himself. The Od of the armor is very dangerous, that's why it itself is a dangerous device. I'll quote you what SK tells Guts on the beach about it:

"The Od that resides in that armor is like a flame that never burns out. Even if you hold if off, it will still burn. And any chance it gets, it will easily become a massive flame."

So as you can see, it's rather specific. Besides like Walter said there's the fact it triggers the bad feelings in Guts more than anything else (related to battle and all that), through the Beast of Darkness. In reality Guts' Od isn't all about hate or revenge, but when he fights these emotions are brought forth and with the armor on they become overwhelming, which is when he loses control of himself.

we also know that the apostles were once humans, weak in both, mental and spiritual ways, so, they can only reborn as apostles afther they draw all these pathetic feelings aside.

Like Walter said that's an over-generalization. We don't know about the background of the vast majority of apostles, and while they all must have been vulnerable when they made their choice, I don't think Zodd (for example) was a pansy as a human.

that means (at least is what i think) that Guts will never use his Beherit.

There are various debates about this already. Like it's been said your point is basically that Guts has an iron will and wouldn't fall so low that he'd use the beherit. It's an easy but pertinent point, but keep in mind that Griffith (again, for example) wasn't originally weak-minded, he was broken during the events leading to the Occultation. Theorically the same could apply to Guts (Casca dying, etc). Anyway I don't think Guts will use his beherit to become an apostle, and if you want to read more on the topic don't hesitate to search for other threads on the question.

Not only to restore his limbs

Hahah sorry but that's a funny one dude, I think you might have used the wrong word here. :guts:

I don't really get what your asking, though.

Well no wonder if you've just read up to volume 15.

Offline IsolatioN

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Re: The "od" in Guts
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2006, 01:20:00 AM »
Yeah yeah yeah, heh, I better get outta here before I embarrass myself any more.  :guts:

Offline Colt

Re: The "od" in Guts
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2006, 01:53:09 AM »
hehe thx, quite a view from all of you...

so, the "od" is like a ki, or chi, i never see it that way, but now it makes most of sense...

but i guess that my point was a bit misunderstood, i was just saying that maybe, the power of the armor made a simbiosis with the strong will of Guts, especially with his wish for vengeance, and i was asking about that result, "the true Berserk form of the armor", (dont forget the fact, that it only can take form throug Guts life form) what will happen then, when the armor and Guts himself get into the vortex again, the "od" be unleashed in its true form???
"The less secure a man is, the more likely he is to have extreme prejudice"

Offline Aazealh

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Re: The "od" in Guts
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2006, 04:10:53 AM »
so, the "od" is like a ki, or chi, i never see it that way, but now it makes most of sense...

Don't hesitate to check the Berserk Encyclopedia's Glossary if you're looking for definitions of terms like this one.

i was just saying that maybe, the power of the armor made a simbiosis with the strong will of Guts, especially with his wish for vengeance, and i was asking about that result, "the true Berserk form of the armor", (dont forget the fact, that it only can take form throug Guts life form)

Well, the armor adapts to its user. When Guts first wore it the helmet's shape changed after a short while to reflect his... "personality" let's say. If it was someone else the armor would take another form but its powers would be the same. Guts isn't the only one to be able to use it, and he's not the only one through which the armor can express its full power either. Since its last owner died wearing it I think it's pretty clear anybody will end up being overwhelmed by its Od.

Basically with him the armor is associated with the Beast of Darkness, and when he loses control it's shown through the Beast, his inner demon. Another man would have a different relation with it, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be able to use the "true power" of the armor. Once again, it's the trick with it and the reason it's dangerous: you can hardly use it without losing control of yourself, you'll become berserk and end up fighting to death, attacking friends and foes alike. If it only worked with Guts it'd be useless (I doubt the dwarves foresaw his birth or anything like that).

what will happen then, when the armor and Guts himself get into the vortex again, the "od" be unleashed in its true form???

Hmm, I think you misused the word Vortex here, you'll need to clarify what you meant to get an answer. The armor's Od doesn't have a true form, like I said previous it's just like an everlasting flame. Give it the smallest reason and it'll burn with rage. It's not sentient, just a very dangerous (and magical) piece of equipment.