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Offline puella

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about elves
« on: March 19, 2002, 12:05:03 AM »
Puck has been in the manga from the first volume but we're somewhat likely to ignore Puck's important role in berserk. :'(
Elfhelm is nearer.
I thnk it's time to get deep into Elves more than ever.
(maybe it's just me :P)

1)Once Miura said "Elves have no gender"
then what are these?

                                          
puck(he) is always naked                            'she' is well-dressed


2) I think Elves are spiritual entities like Godhand as we saw Farnese couldn't notice Puck in vol.17.
then I guess Puck may be 5,673 years-old with a young boy-looking forever.    ::)
Here's my second question "can elves be killed or die?"

3)Griffith took Godhand for his rebirth and Guts took an elf as his company.
Is there any implication or relationship it can give us? what do you think?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2002, 11:15:52 PM by puella »

Offline *Gyom*

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Re: about elves
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2002, 02:59:50 AM »
1) perhaps is there no gender, but just classes : so puck would be a warrior-like and the 'she' another class like intellectual, wizard... it's just an idea that wiil surely end up with helfheim ^^

2)i do not think they can die, but rather they can disappear , leave from the world

3)godhand brings death and elves bring health, so maybe there is an antithesis applied to guts and griffith
guts would be a yang representant whereas griifith would be a yin, since guts is rageful and griffith quite quiet
moreover i think opposites attract themselves, therefore darkguts with lightpuck, 'light'griffith with darkgodhand
of course it's very basic and schematized, and i don't really think miura is a victor hugo-like writer ( so to say hyperbole and antithesis principaly )

elves are very intersting...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline *Gyom*

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Re: about elves
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2002, 04:42:21 AM »
hum...i don't like to doublepost, but i want to post sthg about the elves ; i think they are apparented to the welsh tylwyth teg, i found a site about them explaining a couple points that seem known ( seen in berserk ) of mine :

In appearance the Tylwyth Teg are small in stature with golden hair, a common trait in many fairies. They were thought to live under hollow hills and in deep crevices, and to frequent ancient places such as Bronze Age Barrows or cromlechs. ( beginning of lost children ...)

Like other fairy folk they often interacted with mortals in the past and it was possible to gain a fairy wife although they always longed to return to their own people. According to many stories time in their realm passed much faster than in ours, a day in their realm could be a year or a hundred years in ours. This difference could prove disastrous for any Mortals returning from the fairy realm. (remember pikaf ? )

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline puella

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Re: about elves
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2002, 04:57:19 AM »
Quote
therefore darkguts with lightpuck, 'light'griffith with darkgodhand

your two post are great! interesting! amazing! and cool 8)
I'm very satisfied.
but I don't understand "light Griffith with dark Godhand" ???
could you explain it more?

I think Puck will play a great role in completing Guts' revenge on Griffith.don't laugh at me~
I get to wonder if Puck knew or met Skully(not sure) quite a while ago,why doesn't he know anything about Godhand?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline *Gyom*

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Re: about elves
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2002, 09:04:15 AM »
Quote

your two post are great! interesting! amazing! and cool 8)
I'm very satisfied.

well...huh...it's not that greeat, moreover it made a long time i haven't posted an intersting post ^^

Quote
but I don't understand "light Griffith with dark Godhand"  
could you explain it more?

i was sure you'll point this out, it's a little confused and i made this link because of the rest of the whole thing : indeed we have noticed since a long time that griffith is the white hawk (  and guts the dark one ) , many things in him make him 'of light', and godhand is dark because idea was created on the base of negative human feelings
Quote
I think Puck will play a great role in completing Guts' revenge on Griffith.don't laugh at me~
I get to wonder if Puck knew or met Skully(not sure) quite a while ago,why doesn't he know anything about Godhand?

i agree , puck, since he's here since tome 1 ( or guts kuroi kenshi part oif life ) has a grand role, and i hope this will be defined as soon as possible, so to say in helfheim^^ but i also think the path to helfheim will not be as easy as they expect ( though there is puck with them... ) by the way, i wonder what will happen there cause it is possible that the time problem occurs with guts band too ... how many years would have been passed after they'll live helfeim, and what about griffth's army/midland etc..
about skullknight and puck, perhaps they know each other because of their nature, non-human, and seeing that godhand are ethereal, and SK / Puck physical, a certaine barrier create some distance between them
in fact, i'll replace my pseudo-taoist theory ^^
helfheim is the place where the good people live, a place on earth ( or under ?)where human people have a way to enter ( so it'll be the yang )
eclipse/ethereal world is the place where the godhand ( dark/bad people created from negative feelings, i repeat on purpose) inhabit, and if human peole have a way to enter, they have no way to escape ... and live ( so it'll be the yin, but the term is not that important )
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Walter

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Re: about elves
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2002, 09:27:05 AM »
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1)Once Miura said "Elves have no gender"
then what are these?

Well even though Elves have no gender, maybe some of them just like to wear dresses? Just because someone/thing wears a dress does not declare it a female. Or maybe you've never been to San Francisco?  :D
Quote

2) I think Elves are spiritual entity like Godhand as we saw Farnese couldn't notice Puck in vol.17.
then I guess Puck may be 5,673years-old looking young boy forever.  ::) my second question "can elves be killed or die?"

Well that would be nice if they were spiritual entities, however, check out volume 17. Puck is able to move Farnese's lip  ;D
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3)Griffith took Godhand for his rebirth and Guts took an elf as his company.
Is there any implication or relationship it can give us? what do you think?

I, personally am going to stick with just the superficial elements of having a contrast between two ideas.

Good posts!!
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Offline Vermillion

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Re: about elves
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2002, 10:45:52 AM »
Quote
2) I think Elves are spiritual entity like Godhand as we saw Farnese couldn't notice Puck in vol.17.
then I guess Puck may be 5,673years-old looking young boy forever.  ::) my second question "can elves be killed or die?"


People not having the ability of seeing elves may have more to do with being blinded by a closed-minded form of thinking. But then again those hoodlums at the very beginning of Volume 1 didnt seem to be brimming of open-mindliness(is that a word??).

I wonder if Griffith can see elves. We all know that Judeau saw them but how about good ole' reborn Griffith?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline *Gyom*

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Re: about elves
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2002, 01:55:43 PM »
hey, my last post has made a thought grow in my mind : will the time problem in Elfhelm occur or not : how long it will last in helfheim with how long it will last elsewhere ?
i seem confused, so : will the time be equivalent in Elfhelm and out of Elfhelm ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline roberto999

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Re: about elves
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2002, 02:22:34 PM »
Quote

well...huh...it's not that greeat, moreover it made a long time i haven't posted an intersting post ^^

i was sure you'll point this out, it's a little confused and i made this link because of the rest of the whole thing : indeed we have noticed since a long time that griffith is the white hawk
White is it not the coulor of death in japanese folklore?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline Walter

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Re: about elves
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2002, 02:24:13 PM »
Quote
I wonder if Griffith can see elves. We all know that Judeau saw them but how about good ole' reborn Griffith?

If you'll remember Griffiths speech in volume 6: "Gods, devils, theyre the same to me"
and compare that against why Puck says that Elves can't be seen by certain people in volume 17, you'll see that Griffith should (theoretically) be able to see elves just fine.
Quote
hey, my last post has made a thought grow in my mind : will the time problem in Elfhelm occur or not : how long it will last in helfheim with how long it will last elsewhere ?
i seem confused, so : will the time be equivalent in Elfhelm and out of Elfhelm ?

But why should time pass differently? What evidence is there ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline *Gyom*

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Re: about elves
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2002, 02:41:38 PM »
it's in the faq

Pikaf listened to the story and then decided to go home...But it had changed. What had been only moments in the Misty Valley, had been hundreds of years in reality

also according to faery's legends
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline puella

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Re: about elves
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2002, 03:26:25 PM »
another two questions arise from this forum.

1) white vs. black

I always think about this. Of course, Guts represents Black and Griffith white in the light of their appearance.
Godhand and Femto definitely represent black or dark.
Godhand and elves, the former is dark and the latter is light.
can you remember the title of episode 194?
"wings of the light and darkness"
I think this is the best which can describe two guys' color.
I mean, ehem, both have the two, light and darkness, at the same time.
However, I think Guts' final color will be "white of lightness"(yang according to Lliug) while Griffith "black of darkness"(yin)

2) time and space of Elves

Lliug pointed out a very crucial issue.
Considering Pikaf's story,

Quote

Pikaf listened to the story and then decided to go home...But it had changed. What had been only moments in the Misty Valley, had been hundreds of years in reality


should we consider it just a legend or it's just about Misty Valley?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline Walter

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Re: about elves
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2002, 04:24:21 PM »
Quote
it's in the faq

Pikaf listened to the story and then decided to go home...But it had changed. What had been only moments in the Misty Valley, had been hundreds of years in reality

also according to faery's legends

Thats a fairy tale...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Offline puella

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Re: about elves
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2002, 05:33:03 PM »
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Thats a fairy tale...

yup.
but just think. Consdering Elfhelm is the only place where the branded can hide themselves from evil things, I think it would be good if Elfhelm has some special time and space like Godhand exist in another world.
Maybe I have too much thought on this. but....

Quote

I wonder if Griffith can see elves. We all know that Judeau saw them but how about good ole' reborn Griffith?

good hit.
Suppose reborn Griffith can't see elves, what do you say? ::)


Offline *Gyom*

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Re: about elves
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2002, 03:47:52 AM »
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Thats a fairy tale...

it is.
puck is also a fairy tale ( from the welsh pwca apparented to the ellylldan sort of elves ) , so miura must know these welsh mythologies ( in fact there is a pooka in ireland but very different ), and i'm almost sure he knew the time problem in tylwyth teg's valley when he wrote the pikaf story : then why not applying this phenomenon to 'our' elves ?

and to roberto, i don't know if white is color if death in japanese folklore, but the fact is berserk is not in japan but in an occidental world
moreover i have put griffith in "yin" which is death whereas griffith is the _white_ hawk

Offline Walter

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Re: about elves
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2002, 09:45:41 AM »
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it is.
puck is also a fairy tale ( from the welsh pwca apparented to the ellylldan sort of elves ) , so miura must know these welsh mythologies ( in fact there is a pooka in ireland but very different ), and i'm almost sure he knew the time problem in tylwyth teg's valley when he wrote the pikaf story : then why not applying this phenomenon to 'our' elves ?

Now, Im not saying Im buying the logic you're using here...because honestly its not sufficient evidence to suggest that there is a time lapse between the two places...HOWEVER:

It would be an excellent way to move Guts and party ~215 years into the future (one more year until...) And in my opinion, it would make paralleling Gaiserics fate a whole lot more plausible, IF that's what Miura is intending to do.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »
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Re: about elves
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2002, 01:52:51 PM »
Quote

Now, Im not saying Im buying the logic you're using here...because honestly its not sufficient evidence to suggest that there is a time lapse between the two places...HOWEVER:

It would be an excellent way to move Guts and party ~215 years into the future (one more year until...) And in my opinion, it would make paralleling Gaiserics fate a whole lot more plausible, IF that's what Miura is intending to do.


i didn't say i was right, i agree it's not sufficient,but i just find this idea intersesting, instead of guts getting a supernatural weapon there
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline puella

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Re: about elves
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2002, 03:49:29 PM »
I think "time lapse" is interesting for Elfhelm itself but not much needed for Guts.
I wonder if Miura really has his own elf theory. I mean "does Miura have a good scheme for elves?"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline roberto999

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Re: about elves
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2002, 03:58:32 PM »
Quote
Puck has been in the manga from the first volume but we're somewhat likely to ignore Puck's important role in berserk. :'(
Elfhelm is nearer.
I thnk it's time to get deep into Elves more than ever.
(maybe it's just me :P)

1)Once Miura said "Elves have no gender"
then what are these?

                                          
puck(he) is always naked                            'she' is well-dressed


2) I think Elves are spiritual entities like Godhand as we saw Farnese couldn't notice Puck in vol.17.
then I guess Puck may be 5,673 years-old with a young boy-looking forever.  ::)
Here's my second question "can elves be killed or die?"

3)Griffith took Godhand for his rebirth and Guts took an elf as his company.
Is there any implication or relationship it can give us? what do you think?
honestly Puck do not seem much of a male to me and he lacks a very important part (strange that they notice the shortage in Zodd and not in Puck) however if you say that Puck is male he is certanly so (evidence don't count much on this board).
Essentialy Puck is to Guts what Sancho Panza is to don Quixote, that is he is the other face of the same coin. In other words he see the word in opposite and complementary way to Guts and each is incomplete without the other. Nowadays, it is true, with the intrusion , often untimely, of other characters, and the "character developement" that is the involution of Guts his importance has lessened.
It is true that Farnese could not see him, but,on the other hand, the guys that employied him as a bulleye in the first episode could too well and they did not seemed to me of the spiritual type. Perhaps that of Farnese was simply refusal to see things differently from her usual frame of mind i.e. elves don't exist because the church don't admit their existence, so she was not able to see elves.
I don't know how much time the elves live, I seem to remember that Miura, in a interview  said that they have a short life span, but I could be wrong on that, certanly  Puck fears too much death especially in battle for him to be impossible to kill.  
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Offline Vermillion

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Re: about elves
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2002, 04:26:51 PM »
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I think "time lapse" is interesting for Elfhelm itself but not much needed for Guts.
I wonder if Miura really has his own elf theory. I mean "does Miura have a good scheme for elves?"


I'm sure he does have an idea of how elves will take part. Whatever it is, it'll probable change as time goes on.

Quote

I don't know how much time the elves live, I seem to remember that Miura, in a interview  said that they have a short life span, but I could be wrong on that, certanly  Puck fears too much death especially in battle for him to be impossible to kill.  

Well, we know they can drown. Remember what was in the jar back in Volume 1 when Guts and Puck were talking with Vargas?

Quote


'she' is well-dressed


LOL!! Well dressed??...you call see-through clothing well dressed??
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Offline puella

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Re: about elves
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2002, 07:41:00 PM »
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LOL!! Well dressed??...you call see-through clothing well dressed??

haha~ I think she has a good sense of fahion comparing to other females'(except Charlotte and queen) poor costumes in terms of womanly outfit.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

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Re: about elves
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2002, 04:30:43 AM »
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haha~ I think she has a good sense of fahion comparing to other females'(except Charlotte and queen) poor costumes in terms of womanly outfit.



it's funny, because there's so much difference between her and puck, see their eyes, their hair, their wings too...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline puella

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Re: about elves
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2002, 04:46:14 AM »
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Essentialy Puck is to Guts what Sancho Panza is to don Quixote, that is he is the other face of the same coin. In other words he see the word in opposite and complementary way to Guts and each is incomplete without the other.

couldn't agree with it more 8)

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I don't know how much time the elves live, I seem to remember that Miura, in a interview  said that they have a short life span, but I could be wrong on that, certanly  Puck fears too much death especially in battle for him to be impossible to kill.  

yeah, Miura did say like that. this makes me confused because it is the exact opposite of my assumption Elves won't die or get old.
Miura said Elves can't live long. what does it mean? ::)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »

Offline roberto999

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Re: about elves
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2002, 03:53:09 PM »
The elves of Miura are not the elves of Tolkien nor of legends. He was inspired by them true, but afterwards he modified their caracteristics to suit his universe. Every author do that.
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Re:  about elves
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2002, 03:54:28 AM »
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The elves of Miura are not the elves of Tolkien nor of legends. He was inspired by them true, but afterwards he modified their caracteristics to suit his universe. Every author do that.

it doesn't prevent to dream about it, no ?
i really wonder what's going to happen in Elfhelm,make it marvellous, miura !
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 11:00:00 PM by 1031209200 »