Author Topic: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil  (Read 4780 times)

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Offline Lithrael

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Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« on: August 21, 2008, 04:38:31 PM »
Musing on the recent episodes...  For Griffith, everything has gone perfectly.  Beautifully.  Swimmingly.  Amazingly so, even considering his super powers and super charisma and super allies.  He's been cool as a cucumber.

Wouldn't this moment, of culmination of prophecy, expecting the ultimate badass impossible victory...  be a fantastic moment for a reversal of fortune for Griffith? 

Idea's plans trump Griffith's, with the defeat of Ganishka leaving the Falcon totally fucked over, and the world dripping with Darkness...  And Griffith's personality going through another transformation as he falls, once again, from the pinnacle of glory.

Naturally this is wild monkeys-from-butt speculation but what a cool direction for the story to go...

Offline Madam President

Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 04:42:49 PM »
That would make me :ganishka: so damn hard!

Offline Ramen4ever

Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 04:58:58 PM »
Musing on the recent episodes...  For Griffith, everything has gone perfectly.  Beautifully.  Swimmingly.  Amazingly so, even considering his super powers and super charisma and super allies.  He's been cool as a cucumber.

Wouldn't this moment, of culmination of prophecy, expecting the ultimate badass impossible victory...  be a fantastic moment for a reversal of fortune for Griffith? 

Idea's plans trump Griffith's, with the defeat of Ganishka leaving the Falcon totally fucked over, and the world dripping with Darkness...  And Griffith's personality going through another transformation as he falls, once again, from the pinnacle of glory.

Naturally this is wild monkeys-from-butt speculation but what a cool direction for the story to go...

I don't see how this could happen. Where does Griffith and the Idea's plans conflict? We don't even fully know the Idea of Evil's plans. In fact we don't even know Griffith's plan. Getting your own kingdom is hardly a final goal.. especially when your an immortal Godhand member with an unknown life expectancy.

Although Griffith getting screwed over would be very interesting I don't think it should happen. My reason being the sacrifices. Griffith sacrificed quite a lot to get to where he is right now and if his goal comes crashing down without Guts being involved.. well I think it would cheapen the old hawk members deaths.



avidwriter

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2008, 05:58:37 PM »
Yes and no. He'll get his just not yet. Only one person I think can bring him down to his knees... :guts:

Offline Walter

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2008, 06:10:02 PM »
I don't really see how a "world dripping with darkness" would be a negative thing for a demon lord like Griffith. If youve been paying attention to the discussions in the last few episode threads, it's probably what he's been planning all along.

Anyway, it's long been predicted that there could be some reversal of fortune during this event, like Ganishka leaving his mark on Griffith permanently. I don't expect any downfall though.
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2008, 08:26:54 PM »
Well of course a world of gooey evil could be right in line with what Griffith wants, but I assume there are some kinds of gooey evil that he would like and other kinds of gooey evil that he would not like.  I don't see any particular reason that the Idea of Evil would care - that it would not use even the God Hand as mere tools towards its ends...  Though of course it's never been implied that Griffith's goals are not perfectly in line with the Idea's goals. 

I did say it was a half baked idea.     :void:

Offline Walter

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2008, 08:49:41 PM »
Regardless of the final implications of the abyss pouring out into the world, it's farfetched to me to believe that Griffith didn't see this coming. Take my hand as I walk on Deductive Reasoning Blvd.

Rakshas knew about Ganishka's apostle chamber, and after that, it's nearly certain that Griffith knew of it. That being the case, Griffith goaded Ganishka into a corner by challenging him to a decisive battle, knowing  Ganishka would desparately try to tip the scales in his favor by going over the edge and using the chamber on himself. Which of course, brings about our current predicament.

But we're still on the same page that this is still a very dangerous situation. It wouldn't be much of an impressive show without the fate of not only Wyndham, but STATE OF THE WORLD at stake. I'm even willing to concede that there will be collateral damage done on both sides of the court as a result of this attack. But ultimately, I just don't think it's anything Griffith can't handle, because he had already foreseen this possibility and could plan accordingly (he even brought the Allied troops to witness his moment of glory).
:femto: :slan: :ubik:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2008, 07:54:50 AM »
I don't see any particular reason that the Idea of Evil would care - that it would not use even the God Hand as mere tools towards its ends...  Though of course it's never been implied that Griffith's goals are not perfectly in line with the Idea's goals.

Well the members of the God Hand are tools pretty much, but they're the best ones the Idea of Evil has. And it's taken a long, long time to create and assemble them. Destroying them instead of working intelligently would make no sense from a practical viewpoint. Basically, Griffith and the others were created so that they'd fit in the plan. Therefore, it seems logical to me to expect their desires to align with the grander goal rather than to conflict with it.

And I agree with Walter that Griffith saw the current events coming. Not only that but he probably deliberately made it happen (as he was supposed to). I think Locus' ominous words in episode 291 are particularly important here: "This kind of trifle affairs that goes on in this world, it is meaningless already. Soon the morning will come. The true sun will illuminate the world." Sonia echoed this when she confirmed what had been foretold volumes ago: that the principles of the world are about to end. The rules are going to change. It's in that light that the rest should be put. The castle, the kingdom, they're secondary to this huge change that will probably only benefit to the Idea of Evil and the God Hand.

From then on it isn't hard to speculate that Ganishka was engineered specifically so he'd do what he just did, and that the whole war was nothing but a mean to get him to do it. With Griffith acting as the triggering factor on behalf of his master. And the fact it perfectly coincides with his own personal goals isn't a coincidence. :idea:

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2008, 09:28:52 PM »
Yeah, I do understand Griff has most likely been aware of everything going on and planned on it.  I was just thinking that defeating Ganishka might have effects he didn't predict.  But I had indeed forgotten that Idea has put a lot of work into Griff and it would be foolish of it to waste all that.  Thanks, Aaz.   :void:

It looks like we (and older discussions) agree that defeating Ganishka may indeed have effects that are less than 100% sunshine and roses for Griffith.  But yeah..  I guess picturing him as full-on fallen was a bit much.

(I'd still like to see it.  :guts:)

Xem

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2008, 10:03:19 PM »
<3 I'm full of half-baked ideas, though I'm hesitant to share them with most of the less-forgiving SK'ers around. :( I'm certainly not the brightest bulb around here, and I have no problem being humble about that.

However! I still hold to the idea that perhaps we'll see at least one huge defeat on the side of the neo-Hawks in this battle. As for Griffith himself though, I don't really see it. For him, being untouchable seems important to the story, at least for the duration of this arc.

It's pretty clear the Age of Darkness is finally upon us with the defeat of Ganishka, what that spells for Griffith's character is definitely something I like to theorize about. As we saw during the Eclipse, he was pretty upset about the fact that he'd had walked on so many fallen comrades to get his dream to come true. Only after some "persuasion" did he accept the fact that somewhere in his mind he had known that was his destined path. I found that conflict especially interesting. Griffith's dream has always been something of a boy's fantasy, and the reality of it isn't what he's expected. Though we're shown that he's fully accepted the consequences that must ensue for his dream to become a reality, perhaps he'll be upset once again that the reality doesn't live up to the dream. I could see that leading to some sort of "downfall".

 :???:

Offline Lithrael

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 01:57:45 AM »
<3 I'm full of half-baked ideas, though I'm hesitant to share them with most of the less-forgiving SK'ers around. :(
 

Aw, well, yeah they're unforgiving about silly ideas, but as long as one does not take it personally all is generally well.   :casca:

Quote from: Deci
Though we're shown that he's fully accepted the consequences that must ensue for his dream to become a reality, perhaps he'll be upset once again that the reality doesn't live up to the dream. I could see that leading to some sort of "downfall".
 

That would be cooool  :serpico:

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2008, 08:14:36 AM »
<3 I'm full of half-baked ideas, though I'm hesitant to share them with most of the less-forgiving SK'ers around. :( I'm certainly not the brightest bulb around here, and I have no problem being humble about that.

Well there's no problem with people posting their ideas, however ludicrous they are (alright, I'll admit that there's a limit but I think it's hard to reach). When there are problems it's usually because people are oversensitive about their theories being disproven or even just disagreed with. If you have no qualms with being told you're wrong when you actually are, things should be fine.

However! I still hold to the idea that perhaps we'll see at least one huge defeat on the side of the neo-Hawks in this battle. As for Griffith himself though, I don't really see it. For him, being untouchable seems important to the story, at least for the duration of this arc.

Well I don't know about that. What defeat could they possibly suffer at this point? They're obviously not going to attack Ganishka, and he's pretty much the last threat they'll have to face before winning the war. In fact Griffith is already in the process of fighting him one on one, so I just don't see how the Neo-Band of the Hawk could suffer any huge defeat without Griffith being involved.

As we saw during the Eclipse, he was pretty upset about the fact that he'd had walked on so many fallen comrades to get his dream to come true. Only after some "persuasion" did he accept the fact that somewhere in his mind he had known that was his destined path. I found that conflict especially interesting. Griffith's dream has always been something of a boy's fantasy, and the reality of it isn't what he's expected. Though we're shown that he's fully accepted the consequences that must ensue for his dream to become a reality, perhaps he'll be upset once again that the reality doesn't live up to the dream. I could see that leading to some sort of "downfall".

But that was the old Griffith, and in the end he did come to accept the need to pile on dead people to get to his dream. Since then he's become something else so it's hard for me to imagine him being upset. With the knowledge of the world he now has, how could he not know what he's going to get? And as Femto, he must have had time to reflect on what his dream meant in the past and would mean in the future. It's an age-old and rather tough question, albeit an interesting one: what will Griffith do when he becomes king? How will he act or react? In all honesty I don't think it can be predicted with any kind of certainty. We just don't know enough about who he is now and what the world will be like to be able to tell.

And I can't wait to see it! :guts:

Xem

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2008, 08:07:35 PM »
Well there's no problem with people posting their ideas, however ludicrous they are (alright, I'll admit that there's a limit but I think it's hard to reach). When there are problems it's usually because people are oversensitive about their theories being disproven or even just disagreed with. If you have no qualms with being told you're wrong when you actually are, things should be fine.

Yea I understand this, it's been a while since I've posted on forums, and in all honesty they used to be more political/religious forums, so I guess you could say I'm somewhat used to being in a defensive stance. Criticism isn't something I have a problem with, so all should be well. :) At least here we all agree about one thing. Berserk is the best!

Well I don't know about that. What defeat could they possibly suffer at this point? They're obviously not going to attack Ganishka, and he's pretty much the last threat they'll have to face before winning the war. In fact Griffith is already in the process of fighting him one on one, so I just don't see how the Neo-Band of the Hawk could suffer any huge defeat without Griffith being involved.

I suppose I'm thinking more collateral damage. For one Ganishka is just so huge, and we can already see that he's capable of walking and breathing blasts of fire, I think it's possible others might be forced to be involved. Also, defeating Ganishka could be like setting off a bomb, and with so many people so close, I think it's possible to have some unexpected injuries. Or maybe I just don't want to see Ganishka go down easy, I've grown attached to the big guy.  :judo:

But that was the old Griffith, and in the end he did come to accept the need to pile on dead people to get to his dream. Since then he's become something else so it's hard for me to imagine him being upset. With the knowledge of the world he now has, how could he not know what he's going to get? And as Femto, he must have had time to reflect on what his dream meant in the past and would mean in the future. It's an age-old and rather tough question, albeit an interesting one: what will Griffith do when he becomes king? How will he act or react? In all honesty I don't think it can be predicted with any kind of certainty. We just don't know enough about who he is now and what the world will be like to be able to tell.

And I can't wait to see it! :guts:

Agreed, but even with all the knowledge of the world he obtained, does he truly realize what it's going to be like to be a King, scratch that, THE King? Especially after the Age of Darkness is in full swing. I just don't see it turning out the way he had dreamed it would (however that is). Let's hope Griffith wasn't very careful with what he wished for I say, and the walls of his psyche come tumbling down.  :guts:

Offline Guts' intestines

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2008, 09:06:23 PM »
Quote
Posted by: Deci Posted on: September 03, 2008, 03:07:35 PM
I suppose I'm thinking more collateral damage. For one Ganishka is just so huge, and we can already see that he's capable of walking and breathing blasts of fire, I think it's possible others might be forced to be involved. Also, defeating Ganishka could be like setting off a bomb, and with so many people so close, I think it's possible to have some unexpected injuries. Or maybe I just don't want to see Ganishka go down easy, I've grown attached to the big guy.   


So do you think that Ganishka will fall on some of Griffith's men, or try to take them with him in some sort of way as he's dying?

Xem

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2008, 03:40:54 AM »


So do you think that Ganishka will fall on some of Griffith's men, or try to take them with him in some sort of way as he's dying?

Err, no? :)

I'm saying that Ganishka could easily run in a havoc breathing fire and causing massive global destruction forcing other neo-Hawks to intervene. And if he detonates massive evil upon the world when he dies, some people might seriously get hurt.

Offline Shadax

Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2008, 03:36:41 PM »
If you have no qualms with being told you're wrong when you actually are, things should be fine.


With how unpredictable this series is, it's anyones guess what's going to happen and the most ludicrous idea is just as plausible as the most obvious one at this point.



The god hands are tools and they were all shaped into what they are, but since the apocalypse is at hand, there is just as much to be said for the theory that even a main toy of the Idea like Griffith will get slighted by it because it's needed to set in motion whatever the ultimate goal of the idea is or something. Not to likely, but something like this could happen. Guess we will just have to wait a couple of decades to find out :P

Offline Aazealh

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Re: Half baked thought regarding Griffith and the Idea of Evil
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2008, 10:26:35 AM »
With how unpredictable this series is, it's anyones guess what's going to happen and the most ludicrous idea is just as plausible as the most obvious one at this point.

No, the most ludicrous idea is usually not as plausible as the most obvious one. There are often elements in the manga that allow people to guess what future turns the series will take to some extent. That's why the most ludicrous ideas have never come true.