Berserk Redux: A Fanedit of the Golden Age and the '97 anime

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
ApostleBob said:
If only there was a version of the movies that preserved all the character development and plot while retaining modern animation... :slan:
Your project is well-intentioned and I commend you for going through the effort, but let's be honest here: it's got many problems, some inherent to how it's being done (hacking and pasting two different things together) and the rest lying with the source material you're using. Either way, it can't be said that it "preserves all the character development and plot" as you can find it in the manga, and since it's a "recut" it shouldn't be compared to a proper, fully-financed adaptation of the story.
 
Vodnak said:
Not to their discredit, but I viewed some of it and I wasn't particularly impressed.
I welcome feedback, but this is really vague. What about it was disappointing? :???:

Vodnak said:
An entirely new series should be created to fully remedy the persistent problems within the 1997 anime and the movies for that matter. Again the likelihood of that is slim and none, there seems to be no interest whatsoever in adapting Berserk into an Anime for a 2nd go around.
You mean a third time. The Golden Age has been animated twice now between the movies and the anime. I agree with you that they are not likely to remake this section again in a new series. I wish they had done a better job. That was the purpose of creating a fan edit. To fix the flaws in both since we're not likely getting another go around.

Instead of wishing for something that will never be, I took action to remedy it. I'm sorry you didn't enjoy it.

Aazealh said:
Your project is well-intentioned and I commend you for going through the effort, but let's be honest here: it's got many problems, some inherent to how it's being done (hacking and pasting two different things together) and the rest lying with the source material you're using.
Can you elaborate? It sounds like you're saying that what you didn't like was that I used the movies and TV shows as source material and that I edited them together. That is the project by definition. If this is the case, you don't like the idea of the project, regardless of how it is approached, correct? There would be no way it could be cut together that would be satisfying because the source is tainted in your eyes.

Or maybe I'm mistaken and your issue is that the art styles and aspect ratio of the two sources are different? If the contrast of the two jumps out at you, I could see that as being distracting. Unfortunately, outside of some color correction that I've done, that's out of my hands.

Aazealh said:
Either way, it can't be said that it "preserves all the character development and plot" as you can find it in the manga, and since it's a "recut" it shouldn't be compared to a proper, fully-financed adaptation of the story.
Then I'll add the disclaimer that it preserves as much character development and plot as the source material allows. Between the two sources, that's quite a bit. Almost all of the Golden Age, but it does exclude Wyald, the Bakiraka, the circumstances of Skullknight's appearance, and Silat at the tournament. Nothing I can do there. It's much closer to the manga though.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
ApostleBob said:
Can you elaborate? It sounds like you're saying that what you didn't like was that I used the movies and TV shows as source material and that I edited them together. That is the project by definition. If this is the case, you don't like the idea of the project, regardless of how it is approached, correct? There would be no way it could be cut together that would be satisfying because the source is tainted in your eyes.
Well dude, this is a thread about speculation regarding the next possible movie in the Berserk Film Project, and you replied to a complaint about the movies by implying that you'd fixed it all with your fan edit. I'm just saying that no, you didn't fix it all, far from it. That mere suggestion seems rather pretentious to me, precisely because it's impossible to take two flawed sources (the TV series and the movies) and combine them into one "perfect" offering. So it's not your fault or anything and that doesn't lessen what you're doing with your project, but I honestly don't see the point in comparing your work to a hypothetical "properly done" OVA series like what Walter was talking about.

ApostleBob said:
Or maybe I'm mistaken and your issue is that the art styles and aspect ratio of the two sources are different? If the contrast of the two jumps out at you, I could see that as being distracting.
Well yeah man, that as well obviously and the dub that's also terrible, and so on. Anyway this is completely off-topic. Let's please keep this thread about the next movie in the Berserk Film Project, if needed we can talk about your redux project in its own dedicated thread.
 
Aazealh said:
Well dude, this is a thread about speculation regarding the next possible movie in the Berserk Film Project, and you replied to a complaint about the movies by implying that you'd fixed it all with your fan edit. I'm just saying that no, you didn't fix it all, far from it. That mere suggestion seems rather pretentious to me, precisely because it's impossible to take two flawed sources (the TV series and the movies) and combine them into one "perfect" offering. So it's not your fault or anything and that doesn't lessen what you're doing with your project, but I honestly don't see the point in comparing your work to a hypothetical "properly done" OVA series like what Walter was talking about.
I apologize for the tangent, and I'd be happy to discuss what you didn't feel was fixed or addressed in the Redux thread. Can't say I agree with your premise, and I don't believe I or anyone has called them "perfect," but I have no problem saying that they are better and more complete than what we have.

Aazealh said:
Anyway this is completely off-topic. Let's please keep this thread about the next movie in the Berserk Film Project, if needed we can talk about your redux project in its own dedicated thread.
I didn't mean to sidetrack the discussion, but it seemed relevant to what Walter was saying about the movies not giving characters or story room to breath.

I too, hope we get a properly done OVA series and hope it takes it's time and opens with the Black Swordsman. It would be interesting to see how Miura's old art style would be updated and handled. I still feel like we've barely scratched the surface in these animations as to what makes Berserk such a compelling narrative. The themes of vengeance, betrayal, and determination are only hinted at thus far. Not to mention some of it's most iconic imagery of the Dragon Slayer, the apostles, and berserker armor.
 

Sammoniac

You taffers!
I will definitely give these a try when all movies are completed. The sheer amount of effort that you put into this convinced me. This is a very respectable project and, on top of that, its apparently drawing new members into the forum. Keep it up man, I'm looking forward to watch the whole thing! :ubik:
 
The fourth chapter is underway right now. Probably a day or so away. Definitely the darkest. It will correct a lot of the eclipse omissions and will include a part of the Black Swordsman. Between the two sources, there is an excellent story to be viewed. Stay tuned!
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
ApostleBob said:
Can't say I agree with your premise, and I don't believe I or anyone has called them "perfect," but I have no problem saying that they are better and more complete than what we have.
I didn't say you called them perfect. However, you did say it is "a version of the movies that preserved all the character development and plot while retaining modern animation", which just isn't the case. I don't feel like going through a list but surely you must know that the TV series footage you insert does not "retain modern animation" and that not all plot points or character development from the manga is translated to your project. That's all really.

ApostleBob said:
It would be interesting to see how Miura's old art style would be updated and handled.
Just like his old art style was "updated" in the movies or TV series: by replacing it altogether with something generic. That's pretty much inevitable, and the same would happen with his current art style.

ApostleBob said:
I still feel like we've barely scratched the surface in these animations as to what makes Berserk such a compelling narrative.
I agree.
 
Aazealh said:
I didn't say you called them perfect. However, you did say it is "a version of the movies that preserved all the character development and plot while retaining modern animation", which just isn't the case. I don't feel like going through a list but surely you must know that the TV series footage you insert does not "retain modern animation" and that not all plot points or character development from the manga is translated to your project. That's all really.
I amended what I said earlier to "preserves as much character development and plot as the source material allows" which I think is fair. As far as the TV footage not being modern animation, I thought that was inherently understood by the description of the project. Of course I can't reanimate these parts. I'm an editor not a disney animator. I was referring to the inclusion of much of the movies, which is modern quality. Obviously the project is a hybrid and if that turns you off... Sorry, but that's the project by definition.

Aazealh said:
Just like his old art style was "updated" in the movies or TV series: by replacing it altogether with some generic. That's pretty much inevitable, and the same would happen with his current art style.
I think the movies' animation got better as it went along. They may have progressed some of the techniques they were complaining were difficult such as combing CG for armor with 2D animation.
 
ApostleBob said:
The fourth chapter is underway right now. Probably a day or so away. Definitely the darkest. It will correct a lot of the eclipse omissions and will include a part of the Black Swordsman. Between the two sources, there is a n excellent story to be viewed. Stay tuned!
I may have been harsh in the comment I made before, so I am looking forward to see this next part. Best of luck to you and I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.
 
Vodnak said:
I may have been harsh in the comment I made before, so I am looking forward to see this next part. Best of luck to you and I'll definitely keep an eye out for it.
No worries. If there areas that you feel could be improved upon in the edit, let me know.

Bad news. I recieved the fun message "This application has unexpectedly quit" after a six hour editing session last night. I was able to recover a bit of my work, but it looks like I need to be saving more regularly. The next chapter will be delayed a bit until I get another free day to do-over the remaining pieces. Ugh.
 
I enjoyed your efforts in doing this project, that takes a hell of a lot more dedication and time that I could ever apply to something, so I tip my hat to you. Good call on using the dub version of both of these since both versions use the same voice cast unlike the Japanese versions it makes it slightly less jarring, even though I prefer the Japanese cast in both cases.

I do wonder how you are going to handle the eclipse though. Both are very different from each other, especially the last scenes where Griffith has his way with Casca, you mentioned your use of the 97 anime version of the love scene in the previous installment because it was more tasteful are you planing to do the same during this scene in the fourth installment since it is less graphic? My opinion is that, even though the 97 anime was less raunchy the anime movies graphic depiction of what Griffith does to Casca is probably to more manga faithful and involved depiction of the two instances...though Casca looks more like she is legitimately getting raped in the 97 anime version.
 

Aazealh

そうはいかぬ
Staff member
Heavenly Maiden said:
though Casca looks more like she is legitimately getting raped in the 97 anime version.
Which is why the TV series' version is the more faithful one. The level of "graphicness" depicted doesn't matter nearly as much as to how it is being conveyed.
 
The fourth and final chapter! And oh boy is it dark! The Hawks camp being attacked by the Apostles. A well paced rescue from Wyndham, full of doom and gloom. A proper unabridged Eclipse with a convincing vision of young Griffith. Judeau's last words. No fan fic about Guts almost stabbing Femto. The Black Swordsman. This movie is black as midnight.



URL: https://vimeo.com/90751558​



Notable changes include:
-Color correction to match the animation styles of the two formats, especially during Eclipse sequence
-Brightening Anime Eclipse sequences in which no detail could previously be seen.
-Hundreds of minor cuts to make conversation flow more naturally
-Removal of most voice over and redundant dialogue throughout
-Removal of many background characters' commentary (Not all)
-Altered opening credits to be minimal and create an ominous tone
-Re-Replaced the Succubus Apostle in the woods with the Snake Baron for accuracy and because the scale was inconsistant with how she is portrayed later on.
-Restored The Hawk captains sneaking through the Wyndham cemetary
-Restored the passage through underground tunnels as well as commentary from Guts
-Restored the Hawk camp being attacked by Apostles with Rickert being the sole survivor.
-Inserted cameo of Skull knight to intervene on Rickerts behalf.
-Restored the approach to the Tower of Rebirth and breaking in
-Restored Griffith's creepy monologue in prison before the Hawks rescue him
-Restored the Guts attacking the Midland soldiers outside the Tower including the arrogant captain
-Restored Casca wiping blood off a crazed Guts
-Brightened the escape from the city and pursuit
-Added Gut's lines when the raiders want to leave with him about alwaysrealizing what he has after it's gone.
-Restored the original Behelit awakening animation
-Restored Ubik explaining the Behelit in more detail including that the Apostles all used them
-Replaced Guts realization of what Apostles are with flashback from Zodd battle.
-Restored some of Void's lines before the alter is raised
-Integrated a lot of the Anime into Griffith's boyhood vision, as the movie version isn't persuasive
-Restored more Godhand dialogue after the vision
-Replaced some of the flashback clips before Griffith sacrifices
-Replaced a shot of the hand closing around Griffith with the anime as it is more poignant
-Restored shots of Apostles beginning transformation over music from movie OST
-Restored Judeau escaping on horseback with Casca, getting wounded and horse eaten.
-Restored "Murder" soundtrack from anime for pacing
-Restored Judeau's last lines
-Restored Casca being assaulted by apostles after her sword breaks
-Restored Guts seening apostles manhandling Casca and fighting to get to her before Femto is born
-Slight edits to the rape to be less pornographic. It's still disturbing as hell.
-Edited Guts's attempt to attack Femto so that he is not able to push his way through. Comes off now as if Femto is toying with him.
-Removed credits between Black Swordsman suit up. Goes right into it now.
-Intercut movie and anime Black Swordsman suit up.
-Included final sequence of Guts tracking down an Apostle who is raiding a town. It is not the whole Black Swordsman episode, but rather just the climax for pacing reasons. It is meant to show the beginning of Guts quest for vengeance as the Black Swordsman and give a bit more closure.
-Included a note in credits that the story continues on in the manga

CONTINUITY NOTE:
Due to merging two different sources of the same story, there are certain inevitable continuity errors. This edit focuses on character, story, and pacing over the continuity of wardrobe, art style, or minor details. These continuity errors are known and remain by choice.

Total Running time: 110 minutes

Final disclaimer: This fan-edit is for educational purposes only. I own all of this source media in a commercially available format and do not endorse piracy in any way. ALL RIGHTS BELONG TO WARNER BROTHERS, STUDIO 4ºC, VIZ MEDIA, VAP, AND MEDIA BLASTERS. Viewers should own a commercially available version of the film and television show prior to viewing this fan-edit.
 
Heavenly Maiden said:
I enjoyed your efforts in doing this project, that takes a hell of a lot more dedication and time that I could ever apply to something, so I tip my hat to you. Good call on using the dub version of both of these since both versions use the same voice cast unlike the Japanese versions it makes it slightly less jarring, even though I prefer the Japanese cast in both cases.

I do wonder how you are going to handle the eclipse though. Both are very different from each other, especially the last scenes where Griffith has his way with Casca, you mentioned your use of the 97 anime version of the love scene in the previous installment because it was more tasteful are you planing to do the same during this scene in the fourth installment since it is less graphic? My opinion is that, even though the 97 anime was less raunchy the anime movies graphic depiction of what Griffith does to Casca is probably to more manga faithful and involved depiction of the two instances...though Casca looks more like she is legitimately getting raped in the 97 anime version.
I missed this before. You're right that a big reason for choosing the Dub was consistency among voice actors. It made the switch back and forth a little more seamless. It also doesn't hurt that I'm an English speaker and it seems to fit the European setting better.

I'd love to hear your take on how the Eclipse was handled. It's where a large amount of the effort went. For the rape, I decided to go with the new films as they seem more faithful to the manga, and because it's really uncomfortable to watch (as is the intention of the scene) I felt like the 97 anime gave you an idea of what's occurring but isn't putting you in the helpless position of Guts and Casca. I did edit it a little bit where I felt a shot was holding too long here or there for taste reasons, but it's still very graphic. I also removed most of Guts taking so long to react when Femto starts molesting her. It made him appear thick in the head for taking so long to react.
 
Speaking of the dub, am I the only one who thought it was a marked improvement over the original anime? I know that's something of a backhanded compliment considering how shoddy it was, but from what I caught of Movie #2, the cast definitely raised their game. Whether it's down to better direction, the actors having more experience, or the expectation of dubbing a theatrical release, I don't know.
 

Kompozinaut

Sylph Sword
Doc said:
Speaking of the dub, am I the only one who thought it was a marked improvement over the original anime? I know that's something of a backhanded compliment considering how shoddy it was, but from what I caught of Movie #2, the cast definitely raised their game. Whether it's down to better direction, the actors having more experience, or the expectation of dubbing a theatrical release, I don't know.
I didn't think so. I thought they were worse. It has been awhile since I watched the anime, but I thought Guts and Casca were as cringe-worthy as ever. I thought the movie script was weaker. Maybe rose-tinted glasses and my general disappointment with the story quality of the movies didn't allow me to appreciate the voice acting properly?
 
Delta Phi said:
I didn't think so. I thought they were worse. It has been awhile since I watched the anime, but I thought Guts and Casca were as cringe-worthy as ever. I thought the movie script was weaker. Maybe rose-tinted glasses and my general disappointment with the story quality of the movies didn't allow me to appreciate the voice acting properly?
I don't know, I got the impression with the '97 anime that a lot of the dub cast were kind of dicking around and didn't take the source material seriously which reflected in their performances and was underlined by the (admittedly hilarious) outtakes. I'm not suggesting this is a Grade A dub by any means, but of what I heard it was a little more polished and less cringeworthy than previous form.
 
Delta Phi said:
I didn't think so. I thought they were worse. It has been awhile since I watched the anime, but I thought Guts and Casca were as cringe-worthy as ever. I thought the movie script was weaker. Maybe rose-tinted glasses and my general disappointment with the story quality of the movies didn't allow me to appreciate the voice acting properly?
I agree that the movie script was much weaker especially waht they chose to cut and how they abridged some of the dialogue. A lot of character was lost. However I thought the voice actors had matured quite a bit in their performances. One of the more interesting comparisons is the Voice actor who played Griffith. Age brought out a much deeper voice for him. While cutting back and forth in some scenes, especially his dialogue with Gennon at Doldrey, it became very pronounced. I ended up re-cutting the whole sequence with the anime voices with the movie footage because the movie version attempts to to a data dump on their history that's really clunky. It worked out well in the end.
 
ApostleBob said:
I'd love to hear your take on how the Eclipse was handled. It's where a large amount of the effort went. For the rape, I decided to go with the new films as they seem more faithful to the manga, and because it's really uncomfortable to watch (as is the intention of the scene) I felt like the 97 anime gave you an idea of what's occurring but isn't putting you in the helpless position of Guts and Casca. I did edit it a little bit where I felt a shot was holding too long here or there for taste reasons, but it's still very graphic. I also removed most of Guts taking so long to react when Femto starts molesting her. That never sit right with me in the movie and made me think Guts was stupid for taking so long to react.
you did a good job, and yes I am glad you took out the bit whjere Guts stands there watching Griffith molest Casca like a dimwitted asshole. That pissed me off so much I growled at the tv screen when I first saw it. At any rate what version of the movie did you get? Because I am starting to wonder if I some how saw an edited version of the third movie because I never saw some of the clips that I saw of this one. Like a ip close shot of Femto's penis pumping into Casca for example...
 
Heavenly Maiden said:
At any rate what version of the movie did you get? Because I am starting to wonder if I some how saw an edited version of the third movie because I never saw some of the clips that I saw of this one. Like a ip close shot of Femto's penis pumping into Casca for example...
Sorry I missed this. I used the Japanese Blu Ray for the footage and the American Blu Ray for the dub. The Japanese Blu Ray was reported to by uncensored and slightly more graphic for the eclipse, which was the direction I wanted to take it. I then synced it with the English dub.

As a little bonus, I was messing around with the footage and put together a short little bit about the Age of Darkness. Enjoy!

https://vimeo.com/102198879
 
ApostleBob said:
One of the more interesting comparisons is the Voice actor who played Griffith. Age brought out a much deeper voice for him. While cutting back and forth in some scenes, especially his dialogue with Gennon at Doldrey, it became very pronounced.
I personaly felt like Griffith's V.A was trying to hard to sound sinister in a smooth "trying to be subtle about it, but not really" kind of way. Where as in the old 97 version he just came off as overly dramatic or painfully monotone. I think he was trying to do "subtle evil" because that was he was probably directed or told was what Griffith's character is all about but it came off too...much?
 
Doc said:
Speaking of the dub, am I the only one who thought it was a marked improvement over the original anime? I know that's something of a backhanded compliment considering how shoddy it was, but from what I caught of Movie #2, the cast definitely raised their game. Whether it's down to better direction, the actors having more experience, or the expectation of dubbing a theatrical release, I don't know.
Hi, I'm new here. But yeah, I was not a fan of dubs until I watched the Berserk dub. Though I hated the voices from the beginning. The scenes from the middle to end of the Golden Age were top notch IMO. I prefer watching the 97 eclipse dubbed mostly because Marc Diraison as Guts really brings out the fearful yet maddening tone out of him. The final scream at the end really brings out what I felt near the end of the Golden Age arc. Overall, everyone was good. But the movie brought them to a whole new level. Though I'm okay with the replacment of Corkus. Yet the downfall was the script in the movie indefinently. But with this Fanedit, it solved most of my problems. :ubik:

I can enjoy the japanese dub to. I adored Guts Seiyuu in the series and games as well. But with the movies..........It was totally dull. Even a non japanese listening person can hear them just reading along the script without any, "umph!" Guts sounded like a teen traped in a mans body. He is basically a medival conan batman, man his tone up! :guts: Griffith's tone felt like a calm Leorio from HunterXHunter. Close but no cigar compared to Kevin T. Collins. His line, "I find you fasinating." brought 10000 more chills down my spine from the sense of obssesion. :griffnotevil: And Casca's seiyuu had a mumbled and confused tone, more like a stereotyped tsundere. Carolyn Keranen felt like a badass mix of Monica Rial and Luci Christian. She was getting as much power as she could out of the script with each line of dialouge. With a sure fire tone in that she felt she was in control. :casca:

So the victor goes the english dub IMO. But with reading the manga, most of the exitement comes from my imagination. I wish they gone, "Berserk" with Guts cry in the final scene before the Skull Knight in the eclipse. He did elevate his scream after each one compared to the emo spoony experiment cry from the japanese dub. But I was thinking a mindless man possesed in anger but fearful of his life trying to rip his way out of the demons clutches. Not crying. So the best voice acting goes to my brain :void:

Hope I didn't offend and hope I can make good posts in the future :ganishka:
 
I really enjoyed this project you did ApostleBob it made the movies seem slightly more bearable and it was the first time I seen the new movies in it's dubbed form. I am glad you chose the english dub for your project rather than the japanese one.

In my opinion the new japanese cast for the movies do not compare to the original voice cast from the Berserk anime series. I really liked Nobutoshi Canna as Guts in 97 anime series alot better than the new guy they got. I know some people have complained that Nobutoshi Canna voice does not fit Guts but I thought he did a good job with him, he has this very raw almost guttural quality to his voice that I really liked. Same for Casca's voice actress in the 97 anime Yuko Miyamura. To me she is the definite Casca voice and I hear her voice in my head when I read the manga. I read someone say in another thread on here that her voice was too shrill but I disagree. I like the take Yuko Miyamura did on Casca's voice in the 97 anime because it was both feminine sounding without sounding too girly, but appropriately tough. This is an important quality for Casca because I feel that japanese actresses, when voicing a tough or warrior type female character tend to pitch their voices to low and come off sounding kind of mannish I really dislike that when it happens. Like a female character can't sound tough unless she sounds like a guy whose voice is about to change. And the voice actress for Casca in the movie absolutely does this and it was a turn off for me.

That is why I am glad that you went with the english dub cast and I appreciate that the 97 anime cast was brought back. I prefere the japanese voice cast to the dub actors but they were not bad. I think they have all improved over time and I honestly do not mind Marc Diraison and Carrie Keranen as Guts and Casca respectively. It was kind of fun how with your project I could see side by side how they did their performances from years ago and now and how they have changed things up and/or improved. Kevin T. Collins as Griffith has changed alot and I am still undecided on how I feel about his performance. Whoever said that he was trying a bit too hard in trying sound "subtle" while being evil hit the mark. Not sure how I feel about it.

You have alot of motivation to go and do something like this I am really impressed with your efferts on threading the two versions together into one in as most seemless and coherent manner the two source materials would allow. I enjoyed watching these very much and I think you did a great job with trying to make the saturation and music match up. Your editing skills are pretty good...what sort of editing software did you use? It also makes me think that the movies should have been four or more to cover the the material. I sort of wish though that you could have been able to squeeze in the scene where Casca, fatigued, drops to her knees, and Guts tough talks her. It is one of my favorite Guts+Casca moments, but I understand to make it flow smoothly you probably had to sacrifice that. Good job.
 
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