Is Daiba an Apostle?
- Thread starter Kagami
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Kagami said:
Ganishka can't really be compared to Griffith, he's "just" an apostle himself. I don't think other apostles would follow him like they follow Griff, especially not since he opposes him.
Kagami said:So whuddya think? Magician or Apostle?
I very highly doubt him to be an apostle. He just looks like a high-level Kushan caster: more powerful than the others and leading troops but still one of Ganishka's pawns. Besides we know for sure he has magic powers (most likely thanks to Ganishka's fog), so also being an apostle would be a bit much IMHO.
Malachai said:
Why? Daiba would still be dependant of Ganishka's magic no matter what, and we already know that Ganishka has captured apostles (see the creation of the Daka). I don't think it's even worth wondering about anyway.
Malachai said:Maybe Ganishka has found something different than an apostle/behelit for power? (magic)/whateverelse.
I think it's pretty clear that Ganishka didn't get all of his power from being an apostle, that was even a source of disdain when he addressed Locus and his men. He's a sorcerer, and Daiba's one of his subordinates, having been bestowed magic powers by Ganishka himself.
Aazealh said:
Do you think that the hookah that was seen with Daiba might have something else going on with it? Like how Kaii from Lone Wolf and Cub got night-hawks hooked on his Opium and made them his slaves? Or perhaps is it how he gets his source of Ganishka mist? Just wondered that, because there certainly was a lot of mist hanging around the room where he was smoking. If this was the case, then one could possibly see how another apostle would team up with Ganishka over a god-hand member. It wouldn't really be a matter of picking sides, but it would be due to an addiction.
Kagami said:
I think that's it, obviously. Just a stylish way to get his fog "fix", but it's not like he's addicted to it (at least, nothing hints at Ganishka's mist being addictive). That's the source of his power, and we've seen that the casters all have sentient fog inside of them (taking Ganishka's shape while escaping after their death), so I imagine he'd want to stay in contact with it as much as possible to enhance his powers. He could probably just inhale it from the ambient air if needed.
Kagami said:
I really don't think that's the case, that'd be a bit far-fetched to me actually.
N
Ng51386
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If Ganishka is able to go up against Griffith, why is it that it seems almost inconcievable that another apostle can? It's not that they apostles dont have a free will, they all chose to aide Griffith.
There is one other apostle who wants to kill him, but not yet, and that's Rakshas. Not sure what's up with him exactly, but he appears to be loyal to Griffith, but at the same time wants to kill him. What makes Ganishka so different from the rest of the apostles?
There is one other apostle who wants to kill him, but not yet, and that's Rakshas. Not sure what's up with him exactly, but he appears to be loyal to Griffith, but at the same time wants to kill him. What makes Ganishka so different from the rest of the apostles?
These interrogations would fit better in one of the Ganishka threads, but anyway:
Ganishka has something to lose and enough power to make it worth trying to oppose Griffith?
It's not like every apostle is an emperor, rules a huge kingdom and has immense powers apart from those the God Hand bestowed him. He is unique in almost every aspect: power, personality, social status, resources, charisma, goals, etc. Besides, apostles have a free will but they're also not "chosen" randomly, they fit in a plan orchestrated by a higher being (the Idea of Evil). They can do whatever they want, but what they want is easy to influence using causality. In that regard, Ganishka serves a necessary goal which is to be Griffith's ruthlessly cruel opponent (making Griffith look even better by comparison).
Think about Zodd's encounter with the Falcon of Light. He stood up, and he learned his lesson. No matter how long it takes, Ganishka will eventually learn his.
Ng51386 said:
Ganishka has something to lose and enough power to make it worth trying to oppose Griffith?
It's not like every apostle is an emperor, rules a huge kingdom and has immense powers apart from those the God Hand bestowed him. He is unique in almost every aspect: power, personality, social status, resources, charisma, goals, etc. Besides, apostles have a free will but they're also not "chosen" randomly, they fit in a plan orchestrated by a higher being (the Idea of Evil). They can do whatever they want, but what they want is easy to influence using causality. In that regard, Ganishka serves a necessary goal which is to be Griffith's ruthlessly cruel opponent (making Griffith look even better by comparison).
Think about Zodd's encounter with the Falcon of Light. He stood up, and he learned his lesson. No matter how long it takes, Ganishka will eventually learn his.
gahhh how could i forget about how the daka are created?! *goes off into a lonely corner with a knife*
hmmm...the mist does seem to be important. Perhaps it is akin to the 'daka-effect' that ganishka can get people so (assumedly)powerful?
what i mean to say is, the mist is part of him, so when you inhale parts of it you take part of an apostle within your being?
Afterall, it does seem like ganishka is responsible for the creation of all these sorcerors.
hmmm...the mist does seem to be important. Perhaps it is akin to the 'daka-effect' that ganishka can get people so (assumedly)powerful?
what i mean to say is, the mist is part of him, so when you inhale parts of it you take part of an apostle within your being?
Afterall, it does seem like ganishka is responsible for the creation of all these sorcerors.
Malachai said:
I don't think it's that simple (not like the Count and Zondark for example), it's probably more subtle and complicated. He has a variety of powers that he skillfully combines, so being an apostle might play a role, but as far as the fog is concerned I think it's mostly about magic. I also don't quite get the essence of your Daka comparison but I'm afraid you could be mistaken about it (as their creation process is really very specific and hardly comparable to anything else).
Malachai said:
I'm sure he is.
i meant to imply that by being involved physically with any sort of apostle (drinking their blood, being born from an apostle parent, etc.) changes you physically...which would tie in with what i said earlier about the mist being part of ganishka.
as for why i think that the mist might be part of ganishka, i reference his form, and the night raid on midland's castle. In the raid, if you're in the mist, he knows where you are.
of course, this can also be explained by some sort of spell...which is a relatively more plausable explaination.
as for why i think that the mist might be part of ganishka, i reference his form, and the night raid on midland's castle. In the raid, if you're in the mist, he knows where you are.
of course, this can also be explained by some sort of spell...which is a relatively more plausable explaination.
Malachai said:
Well that's complete speculation. As far as we know some apostles can transform people into their servants and give them some power, making them into pseudo-apostles. Examples of this are Zondark, Rochine's guardians and her "children", or the goat guy and Mozgus. The method used was always different in these cases, and none involved things as trifle as drinking blood (being born from an apostle is currently unheard of, so it's just impossible to comment on it). I doubt drinking blood or eating part of an apostle would be enough to give somebody special powers (Guts might have done both anyway
), I think the apostle has to initiate it, to be willing to transfer some of his power (and each has his own way to do it apparently, though we don't know whether they all can do this or not).Malachai said:
The fog is strongly tied to him, that's not the question. Now like you said yourself, it's much more plausible for it to be the result of magic (at least for magic to be the dominant element, since being an apostle may very well also play a role), and I think it's clear the effects it has on people are different from the usual pseudo-apostle transformation (i.e. Zondark again, or Mozgus, etc).
Herald of Yama
"It is pure Potential"
Perhaps this is a bad comparison, but I was thinking it might be somewhat like the Vorlons in 'Babylon 5': they take a small piece of their conciousness, break it off, tuck it safely away inside somebody, then use that person as their eyes and ears. And, if things go wrong, they're still able to utilise their freaky psionic powers even with just a fragment of their conciousness. This might also explain the loyalty of the Kushan casters; Ganishka could just kill them from the inside out.
Well, I've been playing Sword of the Berserk lately, and I think that a comparison (or contrast, more likely) with the Mandragora/Plant Apostle might be due. Like with Zondark (and Mozgus, I believe), the Mandragorans retained little, if any, individual will and intellect. However, these Kushan casters seem to be in full control of their wills and minds. This means that every time that we know an apostle has put a bit of themselves into another, the will of the apostle has been predominant.
I can only say from what evidence that I've seen that Daiba is most likely not an apostle or even apostle-spawn, but something else of Ganishka's devious creation.
I can only say from what evidence that I've seen that Daiba is most likely not an apostle or even apostle-spawn, but something else of Ganishka's devious creation.