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Berserk => Berserk Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Hitoshura on April 24, 2017, 11:43:46 AM

Title: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Hitoshura on April 24, 2017, 11:43:46 AM
Quote from: ANN
Retailers Amazon Japan, Rakuten, and Gamers! are all listing that Kentarou Miura's Berserk manga will get a novel that will ship on June 23 titled Berserk: Honō Ryū no Kishi (Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight).

The retailers list Makoto Fukami and Miura as the authors. Fukami is the series composition writer for the new Berserk series that premiered last year, as well as the continuation that premiered on April 7. Fukami also wrote the script for the Psycho-Pass television anime series and film, and the Resident Evil: Vendetta film. He is also a novelist known for the Young Gun Carnival light novel series.

Source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/daily-briefs/2017-04-24/retailers-list-berserk-novel-by-anime-scriptwriter-makoto-fukami/.115211
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2017, 12:37:20 PM
I'm not to sure what to think about that... Do you think it'll be new material or is that some other kind of adaptation? Thoughts/clues?
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 12:55:51 PM
Really curious to know more about this novel in order to determine if it has any merit. Specifically eager to know if it will be canon or not and what Miura's involvement has been in its creation. If if it's just some side thing from Makoto Fukami "based on" Berserk then it's as relevant as the recent anime adaptations. A curiosity at best.

But if it's canon and Miura contributed heavily then it implies a lot for the future of the series. For example the past of some characters (Grunbeld, Locus, Rakshas, Irvine... and more) might be told through novels and skipped in the manga, which would be very regrettable in my opinion.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2017, 01:01:28 PM

But if it's canon and Miura contributed heavily then it implies a lot for the future of the series. For example the past of some characters (Grunbeld, Locus, Rakshas, Irvine... and more) might be told through novels and skipped in the manga, which would be very regrettable in my opinion.

As much as I like back story, like you said, I'd rather have them in the manga (for multiple reasons) than in a light novel. I'm still curious to know more though.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 01:05:47 PM
As much as I like back story, like you said, I'd rather have them in the manga (for multiple reasons) than in a light novel. I'm still curious to know more though.

To be honest if Miura were to outsource the backstories it would feel like a betrayal to me. But let's reserve judgment until we know more.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: RaffoBaffo on April 24, 2017, 01:06:30 PM
A Novel by the person in charge of the Series Composition of the 2016 Anime.

Well...let's see.

[BTW I'm thinking of a Grunbeld-centric Novel, for obvious reasons]
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Cyrus Jong on April 24, 2017, 01:10:04 PM
I'm too burned out on shitty Berserk non-manga media to get excited. We got a crappy anime and a crappy game within a year of each other. Who's to say that this is going to be any better? Especially if it was written by one of the hacks involved with the recent show. Oh, Miura may be credited as one of the authors, but what exactly does that mean? That he actually was involved with the writing, that they're basing the story off of some plot details he gave out, or are they just plugging his name in for authenticity's sake? Or is it just a mistake by the retailers or ANN? Miura was credited as writing the third episode of the anime, and considering what a train wreck that was, it's not enough to fill me with confidence.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2017, 01:24:03 PM
I'm too burned out on shitty Berserk non-manga media to get excited. We got a crappy anime and a crappy game within a year of each other. Who's to say that this is going to be any better? Especially if it was written by one of the hacks involved with the recent show. Oh, Miura may be credited as one of the authors, but what exactly does that mean? That he actually was involved with the writing, that they're basing the story off of some plot details he gave out, or are they just plugging his name in for authenticity's sake? Or is it just a mistake by the retailers or ANN? Miura was credited as writing the third episode of the anime, and considering what a train wreck that was, it's not enough to fill me with confidence.

Well as Aaz said, no need to jump to any conclusion right now. We have no detail at all as to what to expect. But I'm a little bit like you on the subject though. I hope it's not gonna be something lame as a "companion" book.

The only thing that would make me interested is if it's by Miura himself.

And again as Aaz said, it'd feel like a betrayal if we got  some background stories in another format.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 01:33:27 PM
Well as Aaz said, no need to jump to any conclusion right now. We have no detail at all as to what to expect. But I'm a little bit like you on the subject though. I hope it's not gonna be something lame as a "companion" book.

The only thing that would make me interested is if it's by Miura himself. And again as Aaz said, it'd feel like a betrayal if we got  some background stories in another format.

On the contrary, you should hope it's a lame companion book that serves as a meaningless (and therefore harmless) side story to coincide with the end of the anime, which will show Grunbeld's appearance at Flora's mansion. A push into light novels to make more money off the franchise and/or extend its reach, like the recent anime and game.

To me, the best case scenario is that this recounts something without much importance about Grunbeld and that Miura's billed as an author because he's the original artist and also because he'll have done some illustrations for it. That's the best case scenario because it has no impact on the main product: the manga. The worst case scenario is that Miura has decided to speed things up and is doing so by outsourcing parts of the story to other authors (and I am not impressed by Makoto Fukami's resume), in which case this is only the first books of many. To me that would be hugely disappointing.

Either way, this week's Young Animal issue should have all the information we need, assuming natalie.mu (http://natalie.mu/) doesn't reveal it first.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2017, 02:00:41 PM

To me, the best case scenario is that this recounts something without much importance about Grunbeld and that Miura's billed as an author because he's the original artist and also because he'll have done some illustrations for it. That's the best case scenario because it has no impact on the main product: the manga.

Either way, this week's Young Animal issue should have all the information we need, assuming natalie.mu (http://natalie.mu/) doesn't reveal it first.

Well my first guess as to why his name is on it was exactly that : he's the original Creator and needs to be credited if this is gonna be a "side story" by someone else.

If it's your best case scenario that's gonna happen, it'd be nice to get new illustrations for that little story.

We'll know soon enough anyway.

My most important thing for the moment right now is the new episode this week anyway.  :guts:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Sancho on April 24, 2017, 02:12:06 PM
I really hope it won't involve anything related to the current plot or any relevant character, i'd prefer that everything would be shown in the manga.
But that title is ominously hinting too much on Grunbeld  :magni: Especially considering that almost every apostle has a potentially tragic past, involving a sacrifice of a loved one, and set in an amazingly built fantasy world, than any shallow writer with no intention of coming up with ideas on his own would be eager to "take inspiration from" (copy).

Does anyone know, forgive the ignorance, who had the final choice on this matter? Is it Miura who agreed on the creation of this project or is it Hakusensha who decided everything without giving him choice. In that case Miura might have agreed to assist the writer just to avoid the novel would result in a disaster, since he didn't have a choice anyway.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on April 24, 2017, 02:17:28 PM
We've wondered for years how and when Miura might reveal the backstories of some of these big characters, including the major apostles, the God Hand, and of course Skull Knight. With the appearance of this novel, we might have our answer. And if so, that would be ... an unprecedented low point for the series. I think this is pretty evident, but just to be clear: Such stories should be revealed in the pages of the manga, not some new supplementary work being penned by a contract writer. Furthermore, there is no guarantee this work would be translated for international fans.

But like Aazealh said, we'll need more info to be sure. Right now all we have is the title, our overactive imaginations, and our sensibilities as fans having endured some poor adaptations in recent years. Best-case scenario, it's a fragment of Grunbeld's life after he became an apostle — filler material. Worst-case scenario, this book tells his life before he became an apostle, leading up to his sacrifice — in a book that's coming out in less than two months.

What worries me is that if Miura was trying to merchandise Berserk in small novels, there are a number of avenues he could take that wouldn't disrupt the flow of reveals, stepping on the toes of Berserk. What about Judeau's backstory? He's a fan favorite. People would devour that book happily, and it would be inconsequential to the ongoing series. Pippin's a popular character, too. And hey, maybe not the smartest decision, but I personally would buy a PALLET of novels about Corcas' life before the Falcons.

But why embark on Grunbeld (and really, he's one of a group, so there's an implication that there will be more of these) if not to tell the primary story of consequence about the character? And if that is indeed the plan, how would such a reveal be woven into the manga after the fact?

It's a very confusing move with big implications about the rest of the series. OR it's just merchandising that we will laugh about in a few months.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 02:27:10 PM
I really hope it won't involve anything related to the current plot or any relevant character, i'd prefer that everything would be shown in the manga.

But that title is ominously hinting too much on Grunbeld  :magni:

Oh the book is 100% certain to be about Grunbeld, there's zero doubt about it. But yeah, to have important parts of his story be told elsewhere than in the manga would be seriously disappointing. I'd rather have a one episode flashback in the manga (like for Ganishka) than a co-written book like this for the backstory of his sacrifice.

Does anyone know, forgive the ignorance, who had the final choice on this matter? Is it Miura who agreed on the creation of this project or is it Hakusensha who decided everything without giving him choice. In that case Miura might have agreed to assist the writer just to avoid the novel would result in a disaster, since he didn't have a choice anyway.

No idea, but I imagine Miura would have a say in the matter, especially regarding the content of the book.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Theozilla on April 24, 2017, 03:06:29 PM
If the novel is indeed a canonical in depth from Miura, perhaps the logic for not including it in the manga is that the story/information being conveyed just doesn't have a place that would naturally fit in with the narrative flow? Perhaps (again going with the assumption that this is manga-canonical/significant, and not a marketing tie-in) Miura is viewing this light novel story as serving a similar function/role as JRR Tolkien's Appendices served for The Lord of the Rings? (or like the various Gaiden novels for Guin Saga, or the many short stories Ursula K. Le Guin wrote for her Earthsea series?)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Salem on April 24, 2017, 04:02:18 PM
If the novel is indeed a canonical in depth from Miura, perhaps the logic for not including it in the manga is that the story/information being conveyed just doesn't have a place that would naturally fit in with the narrative flow?

This is my line of thought.  Look at all of the characters throughout the years and how many have backstories vs how many we want?  There is no conceivable way for the manga to throw all or even half without disrupting the story.  This may very well be as simple as giving an option to know about more apostles.  I don't want the current falcons bogged down to one or two pages a character.    As long as the story is good and Miura at the helm, obviously it'll all be ok.  Too many times the expectations vs. the approach from the actual author become unhinged in an echo chamber, sometimes more passionate than reality and disappointment is blown out of proportion. 
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 04:48:42 PM
If the novel is indeed a canonical in depth from Miura, perhaps the logic for not including it in the manga is that the story/information being conveyed just doesn't have a place that would naturally fit in with the narrative flow?

It's really hard for me to believe that Miura would think some parts of the story could be both important (i.e. canon and meaningful) and also not have their place in the narrative flow of the manga. And to the point of offloading them to another author, in another format? Even harder to believe. And just to be clear I'm talking about Grunbeld's backstory here. His final fight and subsequent death would probably be a good, easy place to interweave it, and it wouldn't take a volume to tell the tale.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2017, 04:51:10 PM
And just to be clear I'm talking about Grunbeld's backstory here. His final fight and subsequent death would probably be a good, easy place to interweave it, and it wouldn't take a volume to tell the tale.

To be honest, that's what I'd like to see... in the manga preferably.  :ubik:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Tama on April 24, 2017, 05:54:33 PM
I'm hoping for the best like everyone else  and that it's something like a filler novel that doesn't pertain too much to the manga and isn't a shortcut to the actual series. I'd be sad if that's not the case as I was also looking forward to seeing some of these characters backstories in detailed art, especially the god hand and Griffiths army. I won't jump to conclusions though, and at least we'll get a sense of what's to come soon.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Theozilla on April 24, 2017, 06:18:19 PM
Another thing this light novel reminds me of are the Fullmetal Alchemist Light Novels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fullmetal_Alchemist_light_novels) which were written by another author collaborating with Hiromu Arakawa, which while not an "official" part of the manga were still done in a way that they were canon-compliant with the manga, sorta like how the Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage story had Miura contributing to it. So maybe it'll end up of being something similar to that level of narrative significance. A story about Grunbeld Miura had a passing interest in making but didn't deem important enough to be part of the manga?
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 06:26:40 PM
Another thing this light novel reminds me of are the Fullmetal Alchemist Light Novels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fullmetal_Alchemist_light_novels) which were written by another author collaborating with Hiromu Arakawa, which while not an "official" part of the manga were still done in a way that they were canon-compliant with the manga

As far as I know that's the standard these days for this kind of merchandising. And that'd be perfectly fine so long as it doesn't detract from the actual story as told by the manga. I think this is what most (all?) of us here are hoping for.

how the Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage story had Miura contributing to it.

Miura didn't just "contribute" to the story of the Dreamcast game, he wrote it entirely by himself. And he originally planned for it to tie in with the manga, but the story had evolved in a different direction by the time it caught up and so it fell into a sort of limbo (not really canon, but canon-compliant, like you said). Of note is that he also did the character design (original concept art) for all characters and enemies in the game.

So maybe it'll end up of being something similar to that level of narrative significance. A story about Grunbeld Miura had a passing interest in making but didn't deem important enough to be part of the manga?

That's the best case scenario, yes. Although I still find it hard to believe Miura was the one to pitch the idea. I think it's more likely that publishing a light novel was planned as part of the marketing effort around the series (along with the new anime, new game, etc.) and that he gave the writer some pointers about the characters/world.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Theozilla on April 24, 2017, 06:32:57 PM
Miura didn't just "contribute" to the story of the Dreamcast game, he wrote it entirely by himself. And he originally planned for it to tie in with the manga, but the story had evolved in a different direction by the time it caught up and so it fell into a sort of limbo (not really canon, but canon-compliant, like you said). Of note is that he also did the character design (original concept art) for all characters and enemies in the game.
Oh thanks for the clarification (I wasn't sure because the wikipedia entry of the game listed Tsuyoshi Tamai under the writing credits for the game as well).
Also I forgot/didn't realize that the Dreamcast game actually came out before Miura had finished the Conviction Arc in the manga (I wonder if fans felt the game spoiled the climax of the Conviction Arc when it came out at the time?). I wonder how much else Miura changed/revised during that period of time (late 90s/early 2000s) since wasn't there also some promotional calendar art that had Azan traveling with Guts and co.? (that also hinted at Schierke joining eventually?)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 06:45:30 PM
Oh thanks for the clarification (I wasn't sure because the wikipedia entry of the game listed Tsuyoshi Tamai under the writing credits for the game as well).

I don't know the exact details, but I imagine that guy took care of specific bits of dialogue and some of the less important scenes while Miura wrote the overall plot and key scenes. You can feel it in the tone of the game, which is very close to that of the manga. In fact I'd say it's the most faithful piece of merchandise we've had for the series. If you're interested in learning more about it I really recommend the Berserk Visual & Story File (an artbook that was made about it that also contains comments from Miura and the full script of the game).

Also I forgot/didn't realize that the Dreamcast game actually came out before Miura had finished the Conviction Arc in the manga (I wonder if fans felt the game spoiled the climax of the Conviction Arc when it came out at the time?).

I think it was done cleverly enough that they were left with more questions than answers. At the time the game came out in Japan, the prepublication was almost done with volume 19. That means two full volumes worth of content remained until the Conviction arc ended. But the game doesn't actually reveal much. The player knows Guts managed to escape with Casca and Puck, obviously, but that's it. The most revealing part comes from Guts' dialogue with Zodd, where he mentions the idea of recruiting apostles for "the Falcon", to which Guts responds by asking if he wants to create an army of monsters. That's actually a hint at what happens in volume 22, which is where/when the game's storyline was originally supposed to take place. The biggest clue to the Incarnation ceremony, on the other hand, comes when Balzac summons the God Hand. Only four of them appear, Femto being absent.
Of course, the biggest spoiler of them all is probably when Casca, briefly regaining her mind, tells Guts she was having "a bad dream". 17 years later and we're finally seeing that dream. :slan:

I wonder how much else Miura changed/revised during that period of time (late 90s/early 2000s) since wasn't there also some promotional calendar art that had Azan traveling with Guts and co.? (that also hinted at Schierke joining eventually?)

Those are different, unrelated changes. But yes, some details of the story evolve as it is being written, even though there is an overarching plan. That's not limited to that part of the story.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2017, 06:51:28 PM
If you're interested in learning more about it I really recommend the Berserk Visual & Story File (an artbook that was made about it that also contains comments from Miura and the full script of the game).

Is that one hard to find? I'd be interested in checking it out. (I got the illustrated files last year and was really happy to have new stuff to check out by Miura, but I did not read it in it's entirety)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 07:15:09 PM
Is that one hard to find? I'd be interested in checking it out. (I got the illustrated files last year and was really happy to have new stuff to check out by Miura, but I did not read it in it's entirety)

It's been out of print for over a decade, but it can be ordered used from Amazon.co.jp, just follow this link. (https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BB%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AF%E3%83%93%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A5%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB-%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BCFILE-%E5%8D%83%E5%B9%B4%E5%B8%9D%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%AE%E9%B7%B9%E7%AF%87-%E5%96%AA%E5%A4%B1%E8%8A%B1%E3%81%AE%E7%AB%A0-%E4%B8%89%E6%B5%A6-%E5%BB%BA%E5%A4%AA%E9%83%8E/dp/4592731697/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1493064777&sr=1-1&keywords=%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BB%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AF+%E5%8D%83%E5%B9%B4%E5%B8%9D%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%AE%E9%B7%B9%E7%AF%87+%E5%96%AA%E5%A4%B1%E8%8A%B1%E3%81%AE%E7%AB%A0%E3%83%93%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A5%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%EF%BC%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BCFILE)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 24, 2017, 07:33:35 PM
It's been out of print for over a decade, but it can be ordered used from Amazon.co.jp, just follow this link. (https://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BB%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AF%E3%83%93%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A5%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB-%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BCFILE-%E5%8D%83%E5%B9%B4%E5%B8%9D%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%AE%E9%B7%B9%E7%AF%87-%E5%96%AA%E5%A4%B1%E8%8A%B1%E3%81%AE%E7%AB%A0-%E4%B8%89%E6%B5%A6-%E5%BB%BA%E5%A4%AA%E9%83%8E/dp/4592731697/ref=sr_1_1?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1493064777&sr=1-1&keywords=%E3%83%99%E3%83%AB%E3%82%BB%E3%83%AB%E3%82%AF+%E5%8D%83%E5%B9%B4%E5%B8%9D%E5%9B%BD%E3%81%AE%E9%B7%B9%E7%AF%87+%E5%96%AA%E5%A4%B1%E8%8A%B1%E3%81%AE%E7%AB%A0%E3%83%93%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A5%E3%82%A2%E3%83%AB%EF%BC%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%83%BC%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BCFILE)

Thank you very much. I shall investigate that!
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Handmade on April 24, 2017, 08:48:40 PM
Aw man, I hope it'll be a light novel like the Fate Stay Night one, and every day/cycle change I can look forward, as Guts, to the meal segments eating with all me pals! I'll love the sound files of utensils lightly rapping on dishes to a pensive violin track, a fire crackling in the background, while Farnese talks about her day of magic training, ever critical of herself. Ho ho, I see her 2D artwork has switched to a blushing palette. She's so modest. But I see Serpico is anxious to hear everyone's opinion on the soup! It's true, he did work quite hard on it while I was training on trees this afternoon. You've come a long way, my friend, and I can trust you in a pinch, but I've still got to keep my eye on you! And Casca, what dinner isn't complete without a horrific cat hiss at me or you choking on your food. You know, it's times like these I remember the greatness of our epic romance, what it was, what it has become, and what it can--oh my! The rice from this new rice cooker is so GOOD!
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 24, 2017, 08:59:01 PM
Aw man, I hope it'll be a light novel like the Fate Stay Night one

Sorry to ruin your hilarious post but you're referring to a visual novel, which is not quite the same thing. As a matter of fact we don't even know if this book will be a light novel, the shop listings just say "novel". I just have a hard type imagining it as a 500 pages book, but who knows at this point.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on April 24, 2017, 09:48:19 PM
This wouldn't be the first time Miura dropped massive spoilers into spin off media, but with Miura as co writer, I'm confident the novel will at least be interesting. I would love if they wrote a fictional history compendium for Berserk, like A World of Ice and Fire, but it's never going to happen.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Cyrus Jong on April 24, 2017, 09:58:37 PM
This is my line of thought.  Look at all of the characters throughout the years and how many have backstories vs how many we want?  There is no conceivable way for the manga to throw all or even half without disrupting the story.

How? Why? Berserk has never shied away from character backstories. If anything, flashbacks are a very common element used to add depth to the world. We've seen the backstories for the Count, Guts, Casca, Jill, Rosine, Farnese, Serpico, the bird torturer, the Beherit Apostle, and Ganishka, and all of those flowed nicely into the narrative IMO. I don't see why more would automatically disrupt the story. If Miura is willing to go into detail on the pasts for one-shot or even outright incidental characters, then I think those that have a bigger and longer-lasting presence in the story, like Griffith's lieutenants or the God Hand, can get the same.

Quote
Too many times the expectations vs. the approach from the actual author become unhinged in an echo chamber, sometimes more passionate than reality and disappointment is blown out of proportion.

And too many times, other writers just muck things up because they don't have the talent, imagination, or intelligence of the original creator, resulting in works that don't match in quality, tone or theme. And that's assuming they don't violate the canon or continuity in any way. It's why a lot of company-owned franchises, like what you'll find in comic books and video games, tend to become messes. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Besides, you don't need another writer involved to keep you from falling into an echo chamber; you just need some people who can look objectively at your drafts and tell you what does and doesn't work.

And while this may not always be the case, do you really think this Makoto Fukami guy is going to add some quality material to the Berserk mythos, when he's been involved with a project that can't even get Miura's existing story right?
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Salem on April 25, 2017, 12:56:07 AM
How? Why? Berserk has never shied away from character backstories. If anything, flashbacks are a very common element used to add depth to the world. We've seen the backstories for the Count, Guts, Casca, Jill, Rosine, Farnese, Serpico, the bird torturer, the Beherit Apostle, and Ganishka, and all of those flowed nicely into the narrative IMO. I don't see why more would automatically disrupt the story. If Miura is willing to go into detail on the pasts for one-shot or even outright incidental characters, then I think those that have a bigger and longer-lasting presence in the story, like Griffith's lieutenants or the God Hand, can get the same.

And too many times, other writers just muck things up because they don't have the talent, imagination, or intelligence of the original creator, resulting in works that don't match in quality, tone or theme. And that's assuming they don't violate the canon or continuity in any way. It's why a lot of company-owned franchises, like what you'll find in comic books and video games, tend to become messes. Too many cooks spoil the broth. Besides, you don't need another writer involved to keep you from falling into an echo chamber; you just need some people who can look objectively at your drafts and tell you what does and doesn't work.

And while this may not always be the case, do you really think this Makoto Fukami guy is going to add some quality material to the Berserk mythos, when he's been involved with a project that can't even get Miura's existing story right?

As far as Fukami goes, hell no.  If he is given free reign over this it'll be a laughable mess.  The point I'm making and going off of the 60% of the story being done, (from Miuras own mouth) the audacity as fans for all of or even most of the characters to get back stories at this point, it's a ludicrous thought.  No one wants to point this out and just follow in order as a yes man.  That's fine, fit in, I get it.  For myself, I find this approach silly.  Miura will do what he wants.  He isn't oblivious to the anime in 2016/2017.  If he really has no problem with that man taking his characters where he wants, who are we as readers to say?  At the end of the day it's Kentaros baby, whether or not the fans think it up to snuff in some regards, is in all actuality, irrelevant.  Should the story take a turn or get handed to imbeciles, a few will feel their  time was wasted.  I'll hold my reserves till then and hope for the best. 

Grunbeld is my favorite apostle.  I know Zodd takes the cake for most, but I'm curious of his personal fall into being such a beast of an apostle.  Perhaps his story is beyond a short few pages that would be worthy of a short novel.  I would personally relish an opportunity to read it. Regardless, when this "novel" is out, I hope to check it out.   

If the God hand do not in any way get a sizable or reasonable fleshed out episode or chapter for themselves, that is where I will draw a line in the sand and feel truly let down.  Kentaro could pull off a few pages for each, but I do hope for more.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on April 25, 2017, 01:32:12 AM
the audacity as fans for all of or even most of the characters to get back stories at this point, it's a ludicrous thought.

I think you're really exaggerating the amount of characters that still have backstories yet to be shown.  And it is well within Miura's capabilities to pull them off with what's left of the story, especially given how he's handled these things in the past.  It's hardly ludicrous.  And how much backstory do we really need for Grundbeld anyway? 
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on April 25, 2017, 01:32:59 AM
The point I'm making and going off of the 60% of the story being done, (from Miuras own mouth) the audacity as fans for all of or even most of the characters to get back stories at this point, it's a ludicrous thought. 

That was in 2009, and he said 60-70%.  Anyway, it's ludicrous, why? Because you can't personally envision it? Just what I'd expect from a NO man.  :ganishka:

There aren't THAT many apostles / God Hand that require their origins to be explained (one could even argue that Locus, Grunbeld and Rakshas' origins have already been teased out -- such that not much more would be required).

When it comes to flashbacks, I never expect to get much more than Ganishka or the Count were treated to -- one dedicated scene that lasts less than an episode. Miura's proven time after time that he can tell an incredible story in a few focused panels. For Locus, Rakshas, Irvine, Grunbeld, and Zodd; and Slan, Conrad, Ubik -- these could all get a few pages worth of flashbacks and it'd be perfectly fine (as it always has been). Skull Knight and Void are a different circumstance, because their origin could be tied to the actual history of the world, so I'd expect a bit more. Two-part episode maybe?

That's what, 10 characters? Am I missing anybody big? I don't think the challenge for Miura lies in the number of flashbacks. It's a matter of how they're punctuated throughout the rest of the story -- striking the right balance. But that sounds like child's play honestly, considering the other challenges he has ahead of him.

Quote
No one wants to point this out and just follow in order as a yes man.  That's fine, fit in, I get it. For myself, I find this approach silly.

I find your outsider attitude silly. Are you the only one who gets it? Do you watch Infowars?

Quote
Miura will do what he wants.  He isn't oblivious to the anime in 2016/2017.  If he really has no problem with that man taking his characters where he wants, who are we as readers to say?  At the end of the day it's Kentaros baby, whether or not the fans think it up to snuff in some regards, is in all actuality, irrelevant. 

Well, thanks for the advice, but this is a forum where Berserk fans talk about Berserk. This is a big development, and we're sharing our thoughts about it. Did you really post here to complain about us doing that?

Quote
Grunbeld is my favorite apostle.  I know Zodd takes the cake for most, but I'm curious of his personal fall into being such a beast of an apostle.  Perhaps his story is beyond a short few pages.  That would be worthy of a short novel I would personally relish an opportunity to read.  Regardless, when this "novel" is out, I hope to check it out.   

Who isn't curious...? But the proper place for such a character reveal is in the pages of the manga, not a supplementary work that's merely "co-authored" by the series creator.

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If however the Godhand do not in any way get a sizable or reasonable fleshed out episode or chapter for themselves

A whole chapter?!

Quote
that is where I will draw a line in the sand and feel truly let down.

Maybe you should listen to your own advice then, because according to you, your opinion about the story really doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Salem on April 25, 2017, 01:42:46 AM
Nearly all of the band of the hawk, Rakshas and what, all of the new falcons?  Flora, The God Hand, possibly a robust and thorough explanation of the IOE should he go that direction, other apostles, Silat, Boscone, everyone on elfhelm of significance.  Plenty more.  It's not as if that will never happen in the manga.  Acting as if it will or even could is unrealistic and obsessive to a degree which will leave many bummed out.  It shouldn't, it simply won't happen should the story really be where it is. So in what regard is that not ludicrous?   It's only a big deal to the community because of who is part of the novel, or in a nightmare scenario, who will ruin the character for publicity if Miura thinks it's not as big of a deal as we do?  Look at the track record of non manga material and assure me this isn't the direction we're headed.

Walter, I don't really have anything to argue with in regards to your response.  You run the site.  Anything else would be surprising.  Idk what info wars is.  The simple point is what we westerners surmise as a whole has no bearing in any way with how this turns out.  If I'm the only one to say why all the OH NOOO, that's fine.

BTW, I will always argue with you since no one wants to.  I do however appreciate the thorough dedication you and a few others attribute across the board. The time and fortitude alone command respect and the constant 0 bullshit is on another level.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on April 25, 2017, 01:54:31 AM
Nearly all of the band of the hawk, Rakshas and what, all of the new falcons?  Flora, The God Hand, possibly a robust and thorough explanation of the IOE should he go that direction, other apostles, Silat, Boscone, everyone on elfhelm of significance.

Wow, that is quite a list! Boscone, though? I mean, don't get me wrong -- big Boscone fan here. But I can tell you his story. He was a very accomplished warrior who rose in rank to become the general of the Tudor forces. Were you waiting for more, all these years?   (https://youtu.be/LeG_judrcOA?t=1m12s)

In all seriousness, your list is a tad on the chubbier end, don't you think? I've already addressed most of these, but for many others, I like to think that Miura respects his readers enough to piece out some of the bits themselves. So, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but I'm not sure there's much left to reveal about characters like Silat or Flora; the latter of which is admittedly missing a chunk of her life, but it's likely being held  for a reveal that ties-in with Skull Knight's past.

"Everyone on Elfhelm of significance" is an off-the-deep-end request that no one but you is expecting. And "other apostles" like... who exactly would necessitate a backstory? Volkov? I'm good. Wyald? Way past dead. Cobra apostle? I can see it, and I'm not terribly interested. Who else, the chicken man? Schnoz (he may not get a story, but his dance will live FOREVER (http://skullknight.net/schnozdance))?

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It's not as if that will never happen in the manga.

All of these? Probably never will happen, no.  And fair warning, I picked up the domain BosconeTheUntoldStory.com.

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Acting as if it will or even could is unrealistic and obsessive to a degree which will leave many bummed out.

I agree, explaining all of those in several "episodes and or chapters" as you prescribe is rather  unrealistic. However, that's an exaggeration of the precedent set for flashbacks in Berserk. You're complaining about something that doesn't even exist.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Salem on April 25, 2017, 02:00:24 AM
Wow, that is quite a list! Boscone...? I mean, don't get me wrong -- big Boscone fan here. But I can tell you his story. He was a very accomplished warrior who rose in rank to become the general of the Tudor forces. Were you waiting for more, all these years?   (https://youtu.be/LeG_judrcOA?t=1m12s)

In all seriousness, your list is a tad on the chubbier end, don't you think? I've already addressed most of these, but I like to think that Miura respects his readers enough to piece out some of the bits themselves. So, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but I'm not sure there's much left to reveal about some of these, including Silat and Flora, who is admittedly missing a tiny chunk of her life, but it's likely to be revealed as a tie-in with Skull Knight's past. "Everyone on Elfhelm of significance" is an off-the-deep-end request that no one but you is expecting. And "other apostles" like... who exactly? Volkov? I'm good.

All of these? Probably never will happen, no.  And fair warning, I picked up the domain BosconeTheUntoldStory.com.

I agree, explaining all of those in several "episodes and or chapters" as you prescribe is rather  unrealistic. However, that's an exaggeration of the precedent for flashbacks in Berserk. You're complaining about something that doesn't even exist.

I don't care whatsoever should these back stories come to fruition.  Simply stating there is plenty open for us to conclude.  However, would a few short stories OVERSEEN by Miura be amazing?  A ton of characters listed be something I would want?  Absolutely.  If it's the man in charge of the current anime and truly canon, maybe I'd just guess my own back story.  If I'm the only one that exaggerates the opposite extreme, we'll see the middle, eh?  :)  On top of that, I think one episode would suffice the entire God hand. Chapter would be reaching, yes. We would eat it up though.   

You devil you.  Picking up that domain.  We both know that one is over and done with.  Let me know when it's finished.  :beast:  I have little doubt I'll indulge and be swept off my feet.

Ok, I just clicked that first link and admit I chuckled.  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Cyrus Jong on April 25, 2017, 03:10:49 AM
As far as Fukami goes, hell no.  If he is given free reign over this it'll be a laughable mess.  The point I'm making and going off of the 60% of the story being done, (from Miuras own mouth) the audacity as fans for all of or even most of the characters to get back stories at this point, it's a ludicrous thought.  No one wants to point this out and just follow in order as a yes man.  That's fine, fit in, I get it.  For myself, I find this approach silly.  Miura will do what he wants.  He isn't oblivious to the anime in 2016/2017.  If he really has no problem with that man taking his characters where he wants, who are we as readers to say?  At the end of the day it's Kentaros baby, whether or not the fans think it up to snuff in some regards, is in all actuality, irrelevant.  Should the story take a turn or get handed to imbeciles, a few will feel their  time was wasted.  I'll hold my reserves till then and hope for the best. 

Grunbeld is my favorite apostle.  I know Zodd takes the cake for most, but I'm curious of his personal fall into being such a beast of an apostle.  Perhaps his story is beyond a short few pages that would be worthy of a short novel.  I would personally relish an opportunity to read it. Regardless, when this "novel" is out, I hope to check it out.   

If the God hand do not in any way get a sizable or reasonable fleshed out episode or chapter for themselves, that is where I will draw a line in the sand and feel truly let down.  Kentaro could pull off a few pages for each, but I do hope for more.

You didn't explain at all how or why going into the history of some characters would disrupt the flow of the story. All you're doing is setting up a strawman, exaggerating the expectations of those you disagree with. Where the hell has anyone said they want to hear the backstory of every Tom, Dick, and Jane in Berserk? No one here, that's for sure, and I most certainly haven't either; I even mentioned the characters I think deserve, and always expected, to be explored in the same way others before them have. And frankly, most of the previous flashbacks we've been treated to were not really all that long either. Casca got a couple of episodes, Rosine's was split between two separate episodes that covered 13 pages total, Ganishka's past was covered in half an episode, and the bird dude got even less than that. And that was enough for them. I honestly don't expect the pasts for most of the God Hand or the notable Apostles in the Band of the Falcon to warrant any more than that either.

I like Grunbeld too, he's an interesting guy with a lot of questions hanging over him (which I believe is intentional on Miura's part), as is the case for the rest of the notable Apostles in the Falcons, but I don't want his background to be relegated to some side material written by a twit who neither I nor you trust; I want him to be explored in the manga by the master himself. And we don't even know how much involvement Miura has with this, or if his involvement is enough; Miura was described by Kurosu as working with the anime "top to bottom," and we know how well that turned out. Either Miura just doesn't have the chops to properly oversee things, or the people involved are just throwing his name around and exaggerating his involvement to give them legitimacy. Either way doesn't lead to a free pass.

And there's of course another concern that I have: regardless of the book's quality, will anyone outside Japan even get it? Berserk is niche enough as it is, and I don't know if the publishers are going to think it'll be worth the effort to export.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2017, 07:09:30 AM
Miura will do what he wants.  He isn't oblivious to the anime in 2016/2017.  If he really has no problem with that man taking his characters where he wants, who are we as readers to say?  At the end of the day it's Kentaros baby, whether or not the fans think it up to snuff in some regards, is in all actuality, irrelevant.  Should the story take a turn or get handed to imbeciles, a few will feel their  time was wasted.  I'll hold my reserves till then and hope for the best.

I find your logic pretty puzzling here. Yes, obviously Miura does whatever he wants. Don't you say. But if he outsources important parts of the story to someone whose work isn't "up to snuff" and it suffers as a result, then as readers we have the right to be disappointed and unhappy. I don't know about you, but personally I like Berserk because of the extremely high quality of its storytelling and art. So the possibility that said quality could be jeopardized matters to me. Also, for someone who speaks of the audacity of fans, I find it pretty audacious of you to refer to Miura by his first name. You guys childhood friends or something?

However, would a few short stories OVERSEEN by Miura be amazing? [...] If it's the man in charge of the current anime and truly canon, maybe I'd just guess my own back story.

Miura was also said to have "overseen" the 2016 anime, which Makoto Fukami worked on. We all know the result. So his name being mentioned here is absolutely not a guarantee of anything. For now the best thing we can do is to wait for more information.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Salem on April 25, 2017, 11:19:47 AM
We do have a right to be disappointed, but what will this do exactly to recycle the concern?  We have no voice or say in what he does.  Referring to someone by their first name rub you wrong?  Cultural differences, respect, what is it?  No different than a last name to me, especially with my first name. Reading my previous posts regarding this, if Fukami is in charge more so than Miura, the quality will not be there.  At least it's not attached to the manga.  It's very possible the idea was pitched and our beloved author didn't have any plans to tell the story and just let it go. 
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 25, 2017, 12:08:40 PM
We do have a right to be disappointed, but what will this do exactly to recycle the concern?

Recycle the concern? What does that even mean? :???: I'm sorry but I have a hard time understanding your point here, and it's not just this sentence...
In return it seems you have a hard time understanding other people's point as well, so I'll rephrase it. We're worried this book might suck (because there is little doubt that Fukami is the main writer), but not just that. We're also worried that we won't get Grunbeld's backstory in the manga because of it. Which would blow. It means we would get Fukami's shitty version of it and not Miura's.

Of course, it's just empty speculation because we have no details on the book at this point, which is why I don't think we should be talking about it for now. But it's also what a discussion forum is for: share our thoughts and opinions.

We have no voice or say in what he does.

That's obvious and no one is saying otherwise. We can however share our thoughts and opinions about it.

Referring to someone by their first name rub you wrong?  Cultural differences, respect, what is it?

Well uh, that's not the most appropriate way to refer to someone you don't know and have no relationship with, no. And it's definitely a big no-no in Japan specifically. But I just pointed it out because you were talking about the "audacity" of other fans and I felt it was ironic you were engaging in such audacious behavior yourself.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Salem on April 25, 2017, 12:46:14 PM
 :ganishka:  I truly love your rebuttals and I'm only saying this in response to the constant doom in gloom.  Many are obsessing to the point that this very well may turn into (at least the adaptation side) a "Lost" kind of letdown when all is said and done.  What we view Berserk as may not be as serious as the one putting it on paper, hence the lack of hesitation to hand over a character I find fantastic to someone who would be more likely to helm another gangnam style music video.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NightCrawler on April 26, 2017, 09:22:43 PM
Storytellers outsourcing parts of their stories to peripheral material is not only lazy, but lame.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on April 26, 2017, 10:10:13 PM
Storytellers outsourcing parts of their stories to peripheral material is not only lazy, but lame.

It sounds more like a spinoff of a tertiary character than a "part of the story" though. As Aaz pointed out, even the game Miura wrote specifically as part of the story ended up in a grey zone, and I don't think there's any such area here.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Tabris on April 26, 2017, 10:28:25 PM
I'm going to wait on completely judging this until I know exactly what the hell this is.

But speaking what little I do know now, I don't see the point. Miura can create an amazing backstory in a few pages. An outsourced story seems lame. That being said I hope it's good I guess.

Most things outside of the manga itself have been pretty meh though.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NightCrawler on April 27, 2017, 04:51:03 AM
It sounds more like a spinoff of a tertiary character than a "part of the story" though. As Aaz pointed out, even the game Miura wrote specifically as part of the story ended up in a grey zone, and I don't think there's any such area here.

There's a point to be made for the quality of all these recent adaptations in different media diluting the Berserk brand. In comparison, the DC game or the 97 anime are masterworks (mainly because of Miura's involvement).
So far the manga hasn't dipped in quality, but the longer breaks make it easy to assume that Miura is in the Berserk game for life. I don't know how much control he has over the property outside of the manga, but it seems that he's just saying yes to every other project and cashing in. The increased popularity of the series attracted more garbage/cheap third-party content, and even though i don't consume it, it's not pleasant to witness.
Are we becoming more forgiving because we choose to believe that Berserk will never be influenced by all that bears it's name in it's periphery? Miura's involvement on those early adaptations/side stories, kinda show that he had a sort of preciousness towards the Berserk name that doesn't seem to exist nowadays.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on April 27, 2017, 05:23:12 AM
There's a point to be made for the quality of all these recent adaptations in different media diluting the Berserk brand.

Oh, for sure, but that's a given when it comes to the expansion of any brand, and I think the expansion is the point, and there's some logical reasons for that, not all of which are detrimental. To be continued...

In comparison, the DC game or the 97 anime are masterworks (mainly because of Miura's involvement).

In my estimation it's actually incredible how bad Berserk-related media is today; it's so much bad luck and bad timing it's like a curse! I mean, the '97 anime is like some classic of the form compared to this current shit, and the movies are somehow relatively tolerable by comparison (at least they had some animation =)! Even Berserk video games suck dick now. It's disheartening, especially for a fan that's looked jealously upon lesser, yet more celebrated, series and thought, "Why not Berserk? It should be so great!" I guess the moral is be careful what you wish for, and be grateful for and satisfied with the manga being great, which is all we had to lose here in the first place...

So far the manga hasn't dipped in quality, but the longer breaks make it easy to assume that Miura is in the Berserk game for life. I don't know how much control he has over the property outside of the manga, but it seems that he's just saying yes to every other project and cashing in. The increased popularity of the series attracted more garbage/cheap third-party content, and even though i don't consume it, it's not pleasant to witness. Are we becoming more forgiving because we choose to believe that Berserk will never be influenced by all that bears it's name in it's periphery? Miura's involvement on those early adaptations/side stories, kinda show that he had a sort of preciousness towards the Berserk name that doesn't seem to exist nowadays.

First, I actually don't think he's "in it for life," at least not by choice or in a cynical way. But let's consider all you said and put it together: Miura has benefactors, publishers or "investors" to please one way or another, and he's producing "first party" content at a decreased rate while maintaining high quality and ridiculous standards for a long-running serialized comic with a single author and modest staff. He furthermore doesn't have time for every side project, let alone this many, as when Berserk was smaller and there was, like, two. So, even without truly knowing the dynamics at play, it's possible, even probable, all this Berserksploitation crap that's more popular than ever is basically subsidizing the continuation of the manga at such a quality. I don't like the cesspool surrounding Berserk any more than you do, but if it's helping keep it afloat in its current form I'll take that deal rather than have him compromise what's important. Anyway, I'm not saying Miura is some victim here or Berserk would hit the skids without this stuff, but I think it makes sense, makes things better/easier for him to do his work on his terms, and he doesn't have the time to play arbiter to everything or the inclination to be some raging creative dickhead about it.

I think this is easier to compartmentalize for a child of Star Wars (it always comes back to STAAAR WAAARS :ganishka:). The Manga is to the Original Trilogy what everything else is to the EU, and this latest animation is like The Prequels. Yes, quite unpleasant to witness, even if one knows not to consume it, but unlike that scenario at least there's fresh and continual payoff to reward and invigorate purists that have the good taste to stick with the manga and ignore the noise surrounding it. Now that's a far rarer and pleasant thing to witness.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: ApostleBob on April 27, 2017, 04:14:26 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we still get a Grunbeld backstory in the manga as well, in the same form we often get for characters like Rosine and The Count. Maybe not a full episode dedicated, but maybe a few pages. The novel may just be an expanded version of such a backstory, filled with details and backstory that is unnecessary for a comic medium. I wonder how much more world building will be covered in such a novel.

Would a novel like this that is essentially canon be a part of the Patreon translation project? It certainly seems like a worthy candidate, even if it were just an abridged version. The implications it may have for the world of Berserk and the characters could be interesting.

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 27, 2017, 04:39:17 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if we still get a Grunbeld backstory in the manga as well, in the same form we often get for characters like Rosine and The Count. Maybe not a full episode dedicated, but maybe a few pages. The novel may just be an expanded version of such a backstory, filled with details and backstory that is unnecessary for a comic medium. I wonder how much more world building will be covered in such a novel.

That would make sense if the story was first told in the manga and the novel came out afterwards, but that's not the case here. And that's what could be problematic: the fact the manga might have to conform to the merchandise and not the other way around.

Would a novel like this that is essentially canon be a part of the Patreon translation project?

Definitely not.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: ApostleBob on April 27, 2017, 07:03:47 PM
Definitely not.

Well here's hoping they translate it into english then. :sad:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Delta Phi on April 27, 2017, 08:49:13 PM
Well here's hoping they translate it into english then. :sad:

Dark Horse did/does publish Vampire Hunter D, so there's a chance they might pick this up, but considering their history with Berserk, translating an entire novel might 1) take forever, and 2) never actually happen.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: RaffoBaffo on April 27, 2017, 10:23:38 PM
I already know I'm gonna end up with the Japanese Novel, just for the [eventual] illustrations of Miura  :troll:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: osamamii on April 28, 2017, 07:53:00 AM
hello, well today they released two photos:
1- is the cover art for volume 39 ( which is amazing )
2- the other one is for the upcoming novel, and you were right all along guys, it's about Grunbeld.
If Miura alone wrote the story it would have been exciting news for all of us. ( at least that's the case for me )
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 28, 2017, 11:11:30 AM
Here's the relevant info for those interested.

Quote from: http://natalie.mu/comic/news/230701
「小説 ベルセルク 炎竜の騎士」のタイトルで、北方の小国の守護者・グルンベルドのオリジナルストーリーを書き上げる。三浦による描き下ろしの挿絵も掲載される。

It is, as we feared, about Grunbeld's origin story ("the protector of a small northern country"). The book is written by Makoto Fukami and will feature illustrations by Kentarou Miura.

(http://cdn2.natalie.mu/media/comic/1704/0428/extra/news_xlarge_berserk_g.jpg)

hello, well today they released two photos:
2- the other one is for the upcoming novel, and you were right all along guys, it's about Grunbeld.
If Miura alone wrote the story it would have been exciting news for all of us. ( at least that's the case for me )

Of course it was about Grunbeld, there was absolutely no doubt that would be the case given the title. Also, the illustration above is nothing new, it was done for the Trading Card Game over 10 years ago. However I do believe that the book will also feature original illustrations.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 28, 2017, 11:42:07 AM
Damn it, now I'm gonna have an internal battle whether I should buy this shit or not. I'd do it for the illustrations but other then that... It would be impossible for me to read it for a while. So I hope at least to have new illustrations.. I'll wait a bit and see what it looks like when it comes out.

Thx for the heads up.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 28, 2017, 12:10:01 PM
Damn it, now I'm gonna have an internal battle whether I should buy this shit or not. I'd do it for the illustrations but other then that... It would be impossible for me to read it for a while. So I hope at least to have new illustrations.. I'll wait a bit and see what it looks like when it comes out.

I expect Miura will have briefed Fukami on the key parts of the story, but it's definitely not going to have the level of quality we are used to. The fact Miura provided original illustrations for the backstory also strongly legitimizes it. Therefore, even if we get something in the manga down the line (which could be years from now), this will remain the reference. I can't say that I am satisfied with this turn of events. I almost wish Grunbeld would land at Skellig in episode 351, just so there'd be some sense to this beyond a tie-in with the anime...

And as for whether or not we'll get an official release of the book in English (with the usual mediocre quality we've come to expect), I wouldn't venture myself to make a guess.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on April 28, 2017, 12:49:55 PM
I almost wish Grunbeld would land at Skellig in episode 351, just so there'd be some sense to this beyond a tie-in with the anime...


This, would be great indeed. Though I fear the reason is for the latter.  :farnese:

And as for whether or not we'll get an official release of the book in English (with the usual mediocre quality we've come to expect), I wouldn't venture myself to make a guess.

Hence my internal conflict. I'll probably get it for the drawings anyway since we all know the art is awesome.  :guts:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NightCrawler on April 28, 2017, 07:04:56 PM
(...)

I prefer to believe your reasoning, that all this side stuff is fuel for the main thing, but yeah, it ain't pretty, especially for us older fans, that got sucked into the manga on the shoulders of higher quality adaptations. I can't even imagine anyone wanting to read Berserk after watching these latest godawful animations.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on April 28, 2017, 07:41:41 PM
it ain't pretty, especially for us older fans, that got sucked into the manga on the shoulders of higher quality adaptations. I can't even imagine anyone wanting to read Berserk after watching these latest godawful animations.

I can't even watch them and I've been a fan for like 17 years! It's cold comfort that the '97 anime, which also got me into the series, looks a lot better now than it was once regarded when it was just it vs. the manga.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on April 28, 2017, 07:48:45 PM
This, would be great indeed. Though I fear the reason is for the latter.  :farnese:

I didn't really mean it in a hopeful way. Like I said earlier in the thread, I read Berserk for its masterful storytelling first and foremost. So I do not want, under any circumstance whatsoever, to see that storytelling be offloaded to someone other than Kentarou Miura. But it's what's going on here. And to me that's the first real, serious blow against Berserk in the fifteen or so years that I've been following the series.

And the fear I expressed early on in this thread is still very tangible: that this isn't a one shot, that it's only the beginning. What's next? The Skull Knight? Zodd? Written by whatever third rate guy is willing to give it a shot? I am not happy about this. To be honest I'm very disappointed. Of course we still don't have many details so there are ways this outlook could change, but I feel like the writing is on the wall. I may be wrong, but I don't believe Miura would have greenlit this book without meaning for it to have some legitimacy.

I'll probably get it for the drawings anyway since we all know the art is awesome.  :guts:

Actually I'm curious about that. The official press release (http://berserk-anime.com/news/index01050000.html) says it will have "a lot of illustrations by Miura", but it also calls this a "novelization" and the online shops categorize it as a standard novel and not a "light novel" so far. Makes me wonder what format it will take. Wait and see, I guess.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on May 01, 2017, 03:41:22 PM
Of course, of course. I'm the type to wait a bit and see the results before rushing to get it. Especially when it's not completely done by Miura himself.

But I agree with you. I might not have been into the serie for as long as you, but I'm all down to get my info about the characters I like from the creator himself rather then a sketchy second or third party writer.

And to be honest I'd prefer it in the manga for obvious reasons stated somewhere above.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on May 01, 2017, 06:55:47 PM
Quote from: http://berserk-anime.com/news/index01050000.html
また、39巻の発売と同時に『ベルセルク』初のノベライズ『小説ベルセルク炎竜の騎士』が登場!
新生鷹の団・グルンベルドの物語を深見真(TVアニメ『ベルセルク』シリーズ構成)が書き上げる完全オリジナルストーリー。三浦建太郎描き下ろしイラストも満載!

小説ベルセルク炎竜の騎士
小説:深見真原作:三浦建太郎
B6判・定価:本体780円+税
6月23日発売白泉社刊

There are some details from the press release (above) that I didn't mention earlier but that I believe are worth posting about.

The book will be in a B6 format, meaning the same size as a volume of the manga. Like I said before, the book has been continuously referred to as a novel (小説) and not a light novel (ライトノベル) so far.
The press release also specifically says the book is a "fully original story by Makoto Fukami". It lists Fukami as author of the book while Miura is credited as the author of the work it's based on.
The announcement does however say that the book will feature numerous illustrations by Miura. How many that actually means is unknown.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on May 01, 2017, 07:17:43 PM
The press release also specifically says the book is a "fully original story by Makoto Fukami". It lists Fukami as author of the book while Miura is credited as the author of the work it's based on.

Whew, thanks for looking into that. Suddenly things are not so ambiguous about Miura's level of involvement. Seems like the novel is shaping up to be "based on a panel by Kentarou Miura."
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Tama on May 01, 2017, 08:57:32 PM
This is unfortunate, hopefully this won't set a precedent for things to come, but like Aazealh said it's a real possibility. I'd be curious to know if the reason for this is because Miura feels he doesn't have enough time presently or in the future, to create these backstories for the side characters. Or if it's more about marketing the anime and other merchandise that's recently come out. Either way I hope at the very least character's like Skull Knight will be in manga form, he's such a important and mysterious figure through out the story and I've always looked forward to seeing it drawn and told solely by Miura.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on May 01, 2017, 09:29:40 PM
I'd be curious to know if the reason for this is because Miura feels he doesn't have enough time presently or in the future, to create these backstories for the side characters.

Like I said earlier on in the thread, I don't think Grunbeld's backstory would take up too much time for him to tell. In fact, like Walter just mentioned, so far the book sounds like it's based on a single panel from the manga.

(http://www.aazealh.net/Divers/Grunbeld_The-Book.jpg)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Kaladin on May 01, 2017, 10:29:54 PM
The illustrations alone will be worth the purchase. From your guys' knowledge, has this Makoto Fukami written anything notable from the past? i guess it doesn't really matter because this will most than likely not get localized.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on May 02, 2017, 03:05:22 PM
I'm looking forward to its 2020 translation. So long as the author doesn't make any canon destroying mistakes I don't mind.

And the fear I expressed early on in this thread is still very tangible: that this isn't a one shot, that it's only the beginning. What's next? The Skull Knight? Zodd? Written by whatever third rate guy is willing to give it a shot? I am not happy about this.

The fact that they're starting with Grunbeld and not Zodd I think implies that they're not going to novelize Zodd's origin story, it's likely to just be the elite war demons, Locus, Grunbeld, Rakshas and Irvine.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on May 02, 2017, 03:28:44 PM
The fact that they're starting with Grunbeld and not Zodd I think implies that they're not going to novelize Zodd's origin story, it's likely to just be the elite war demons, Locus, Grunbeld, Rakshas and Irvine.

Are you saying that if they were going to do Zodd, they'd have started with him because he's a more popular character? That's not very convincing. They probably don't have every step of this novel plan scripted out. The decision to do Grunbeld first may have been opportunistic. Perhaps Fukami had an idea about Grunbeld's past, because he was the one in charge of the anime script, and he decided to embark on this novel project. Even at this early stage, I think there's a very real possibility of novels for many other characters, including Zodd.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Sancho on May 02, 2017, 05:37:41 PM
Are you saying that if they were going to do Zodd, they'd have started with him because he's a more popular character? That's not very convincing. They probably don't have every step of this novel plan scripted out. The decision to do Grunbeld first may have been opportunistic. Perhaps Fukami had an idea about Grunbeld's past, because he was the one in charge of the anime script, and he decided to embark on this novel project. Even at this early stage, I think there's a very real possibility of novels for many other characters, including Zodd.

It's true that there could be other novels after this for other apostles like Locus (let's hope not though), but i doubt it would feature Zodd. He's one of the most iconic character of the series, one of the fated final enemy for Guts, after Griffith, and very likely he's going to die in that last battle. I find hard to imagine that Miura, or anyone at Hakusensha who work as manager or editor for Berserk would allow his backstory to be revealed outside the manga. Let alone Skull Knight. I think we can rest easy for at least both of them.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on May 02, 2017, 06:31:47 PM
It's true that there could be other novels after this for other apostles like Locus (let's hope not though), but i doubt it would feature Zodd. He's one of the most iconic character of the series, one of the fated final enemy for Guts, after Griffith, and very likely he's going to die in that last battle. I find hard to imagine that Miura, or anyone at Hakusensha who work as manager or editor for Berserk would allow his backstory to be revealed outside the manga. Let alone Skull Knight. I think we can rest easy for at least both of them.

Let's use a time machine and go back 2 weeks. I find your house and kick down your door and tell you: MARTY!!!!!! Instead of being revealed in the pages of the manga, Grunbeld's backstory would come to light in a novel NOT written by Kentarou Miura, used as a marketing arm to promote the series in the wake of the new anime?

Sounds crazy, right? Who would think that's okay? Well, it's happening, and now there's precedent.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on May 02, 2017, 06:34:44 PM
So long as the author doesn't make any canon destroying mistakes I don't mind.

So you won't mind if it's just plain mediocre? Hard for me to understand that attitude.

The fact that they're starting with Grunbeld and not Zodd I think implies that they're not going to novelize Zodd's origin story, it's likely to just be the elite war demons, Locus, Grunbeld, Rakshas and Irvine.

It doesn't imply anything. You're straight-up guessing without anything to base it on.

It's true that there could be other novels after this for other apostles like Locus (let's hope not though), but i doubt it would feature Zodd. He's one of the most iconic character of the series, one of the fated final enemy for Guts, after Griffith, and very likely he's going to die in that last battle. I find hard to imagine that Miura, or anyone at Hakusensha who work as manager or editor for Berserk would allow his backstory to be revealed outside the manga. Let alone Skull Knight. I think we can rest easy for at least both of them.

See above. There's no ground for your confidence. Grunbeld isn't an unimportant character. Maybe there won't be another novel after this. Maybe there will be more. And if there are, it's not at all unlikely that they'll be about fan favorites, because that's what sells.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Eluvei on May 02, 2017, 09:29:19 PM
The fact Miura provided original illustrations for the backstory also strongly legitimizes it.

Can't believe I'm saying this, but as much as I like seeing new Miura art, I wish they'd just use some of the extremely ugly stills from the new anime series for this thing, and slap a "based on the anime" sticker on the cover.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on May 02, 2017, 09:40:42 PM
(http://www.skullknight.net/images/grunbeld-what.gif)

LONG AGO, IN A NORTHERN COUNTRY... THERE WAS A BOY WITH BRIGHT RED HAIR.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on May 02, 2017, 09:40:51 PM
Can't believe I'm saying this, but as much as I like seeing new Miura art, I wish they'd just use some of the extremely ugly stills from the new anime series for this thing, and slap a "based on the anime" sticker on the cover.

Same, although my real wish is that it didn't exist to begin with.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on May 02, 2017, 11:11:40 PM
Well, the fact that it is a relatively minor character like Grunbeld, more famous for his position and outsized appearance than anything intrinsically interesting about him (I mean, his fight with Guts confirmed he's kind of a bore), rather than like fucking Zodd, who Miura clearly has a lot invested in, or even someone like Rakshas who has personality galore, gives me relief that this is just some side crap Miura didn't care much about anyway. Otherwise I don't think Miura would have ceded the real estate if he intended to use it. I don't think all Apostles, especially now, need to get an arc. There isn't going to be a Grunbeld chapter focusing on an extended confrontation between him and Guts and their personalities (he had his moment). I think he's closer to cannon fodder than main attraction in the battles to come.

"HO HO HO, WE MEET AGAIN BLACK SWORDSMA*BLAAARRRGGGGLLLE*"

 :guts: "Is Zodd around?"

Of course, this could just be wishful thinking, and if this proves a success, a bad precedent in either case (stay tuned for the Berserk: The Night of the Moonlight Knight novel!). :carcus:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on May 03, 2017, 05:14:39 AM
Well, the fact that it is a relatively minor character like Grunbeld, more famous for his position and outsized appearance than anything intrinsically interesting about him (I mean, his fight with Guts confirmed he's kind of a bore) [...] I think he's closer to cannon fodder than main attraction in the battles to come.

Wow, you're harsh man! I really like Guts' fight with Grunbeld (including the way Guts calls out his bullshit attitude), and it's obviously an important moment in the story. We're not going to get an entire volume of content about him to be sure, but I don't think their rematch will be over in four panels either, as a side show for something else. I expect it to take place at another memorable time in the story and to not just be a walk in the park. That's sort of what the first confrontation promised as it ended.

You do raise a good point though. Given his screen time and role in the story, would Miura dedicate half an episode to a flashback of Grunbeld's past? Would he spend a page on it? Half a page? One panel? Does he already have an outline of his final fight and has decided there's nothing more to say? One would think so, given this book.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Tama on May 03, 2017, 06:05:26 AM
LONG AGO, IN A NORTHERN COUNTRY... THERE WAS A BOY WITH BRIGHT RED HAIR.

Ugh, I'm really glad I stopped watching season 2 after a few episodes. Imagine if that was the image in the book.  :magni:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Menosgade on May 03, 2017, 11:19:50 AM
(http://www.skullknight.net/images/grunbeld-what.gif)

LONG AGO, IN A NORTHERN COUNTRY... THERE WAS A BOY WITH BRIGHT RED HAIR.

Well they wanted to make an intimidating Grunbeld. They did, he's ugly af.
But definitively not as good as a decent animation, non-pastel textures and proper illumination would do.

Ps. Now I noticed that instead of making a more consistent overall look, they use these ugly pastel textures for skin and also attempt to give a realistic look to metal. Look how completely different his neck armour is from his face. At least it seems consistent with the background.

Well, the fact that it is a relatively minor character like Grunbeld, more famous for his position and outsized appearance than anything intrinsically interesting about him (I mean, his fight with Guts confirmed he's kind of a bore), rather than like fucking Zodd, who Miura clearly has a lot invested in, or even someone like Rakshas who has personality galore, gives me relief that this is just some side crap Miura didn't care much about anyway. Otherwise I don't think Miura would have ceded the real estate if he intended to use it. I don't think all Apostles, especially now, need to get an arc. There isn't going to be a Grunbeld chapter focusing on an extended confrontation between him and Guts and their personalities (he had his moment). I think he's closer to cannon fodder than main attraction in the battles to come.

I think that's an unfair statement. Zodd appears much earlier in the story, basically all of Griffith's relevant apostles are new, except the obvious Zodd. That fight shows clearly Grunbeld's attitude as a honourful and loyal warrior towards his master. I had a lot of fun with that fight, it was very good to introduce the Berserk Armour and show how Guts could tear apart a top apostle if in control of the armour. :daiba:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on May 03, 2017, 04:49:26 PM
To clarify, I'm not saying Grunbeld's contributions, particularly that fight, have been boring, but that he comes off as a prideful knight and not much more, and unfortunately the best case scenario in light of this novelization is that he stays that way and is somewhat expendable, otherwise...

Anyway, just another fun way this book can color one's perceptions!
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on May 06, 2017, 07:18:18 PM
Are you saying that if they were going to do Zodd, they'd have started with him because he's a more popular character? That's not very convincing. They probably don't have every step of this novel plan scripted out. The decision to do Grunbeld first may have been opportunistic. Perhaps Fukami had an idea about Grunbeld's past, because he was the one in charge of the anime script, and he decided to embark on this novel project. Even at this early stage, I think there's a very real possibility of novels for many other characters, including Zodd.

Maybe, but I have a more cynical idea of what transpired, some publishing company that likes money probably approached Miura about spin off novels,  :zodd: or  :badbone: may have been suggested because of their popularity, Miura refuses because he doesn't want major spoilers revealed, and they had to settle with a Grunbeld spin off.

Let's use a time machine and go back 2 weeks. I find your house and kick down your door and tell you: MARTY!!!!!! Instead of being revealed in the pages of the manga, Grunbeld's backstory would come to light in a novel NOT written by Kentarou Miura, used as a marketing arm to promote the series in the wake of the new anime?

Sounds crazy, right? Who would think that's okay? Well, it's happening, and now there's precedent.

For a jobber henchman sure, but for someone like Zodd, a popular character that has been shrouded in mystery since the beginning, it's harder to believe Miura would reveal his back story.

We already have small clues hinting to why the elite war demons became apostles, but we don't know anything about Zodd's life before he became an apostle, or how far his relationship with  :badbone:  goes. I guess my point is Miura has more to lose by spoiling Zodd's past. 

So you won't mind if it's just plain mediocre? Hard for me to understand that attitude.

Sword of Beserk was mediocre, but I still enjoy it, I find the SG arc mediocre, but I still like it, I'd prefer if the novel was great, but I'll be glad to get anything.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on May 06, 2017, 08:45:49 PM
Sword of Beserk was mediocre, but I still enjoy it, I find the SG arc mediocre, but I still like it, I'd prefer if the novel was great, but I'll be glad to get anything.

Sword of Berserk was very good at the time and its story has aged well, especially recently, and I think any awkwardness at that time was due to the localization and it taking place in a future context (and what's the "SG arc?" If it's the Sea God that's not an arc, but a relatively small part of the current one). Anyway, I don't get being glad to get anything, good or bad. I'd rather wait for something good or not waste the opportunity (like what's happened with the second rate anime). I'm pretty sure we'd all be thrilled if Miura was writing a novel, Berserk or not, but what do I care if this guy writes a Berserk fanfic?
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on May 06, 2017, 09:54:15 PM
Maybe, but I have a more cynical idea of what transpired, some publishing company that likes money probably approached Miura about spin off novels,  :zodd: or  :badbone: may have been suggested because of their popularity, Miura refuses because he doesn't want major spoilers revealed, and they had to settle with a Grunbeld spin off.

Same as before: you're just guessing. The book is being published by Young Animal Comics.

Sword of Beserk was mediocre

I'll have to disagree with that. Back when it was released (1999) it had some very nice graphics, and its soundtrack was pretty damn good as well. Its story is also both solid as a standalone product while remaining 100% faithful to the manga. So much so that it actually hinted at plot developments years before they took place. It's not without faults if you take it in a vacuum, especially with regards to the gameplay, but as a Berserk game it's the best we've had and most likely the best we'll ever get.

I find the SG arc mediocre, but I still like it

There's no "SG arc", like Griff said. And I somehow doubt I'd find the reasoning behind that opinion very convincing, but whatever.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on May 08, 2017, 05:04:23 PM
Same as before: you're just guessing. The book is being published by Young Animal Comics.

I know, which is why I used the words "I think" and "my opinion".

Sword of Berserk was very good at the time and its story has aged well, especially recently, and I think any awkwardness at that time was due to the localization and it taking place in a future context (and what's the "SG arc?" If it's the Sea God that's not an arc, but a relatively small part of the current one). Anyway, I don't get being glad to get anything, good or bad. I'd rather wait for something good or not waste the opportunity (like what's happened with the second rate anime). I'm pretty sure we'd all be thrilled if Miura was writing a novel, Berserk or not, but what do I care if this guy writes a Berserk fanfic?

I'm not rooting for it to be bad, but I'm not losing any sleep over Griffith's henchman's backstory pre sacrifice not being as good as it was in my imagination, it's fluff and it doesn't affect the main story. I don't think anything will be as bad as the anime, that cannot be enjoyed even on a superficial level.

I'll have to disagree with that. Back when it was released (1999) it had some very nice graphics, and its soundtrack was pretty damn good as well. Its story is also both solid as a standalone product while remaining 100% faithful to the manga. So much so that it actually hinted at plot developments years before they took place. It's not without faults if you take it in a vacuum, especially with regards to the gameplay, but as a Berserk game it's the best we've had and most likely the best we'll ever get.

Apart from the :???: spoilers, I've got nothing against the story, I agree with a lot of your points, it's the execution that I didn't like.


There's no "SG arc", like Griff said. And I somehow doubt I'd find the reasoning behind that opinion very convincing, but whatever.

The Sea God story then, I'm used to calling it an arc. My complaints are the same as most of those who don't like the side story.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Salem on May 08, 2017, 05:10:38 PM
Apart from the :???: spoilers, I've got nothing against the story, I agree with a lot of your points, it's the execution that I didn't like.

I'm gonna assume you played this sometime in the last few years.  I played it the year it came out and thought it was quite amazing, minus the save system.  I wouldn't dive into Berserk until years later.  Assuming you did play it now vs then, that's not a very fair statement considering we're talking the Sega Dreamcast and when many played it early 2000.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on May 08, 2017, 05:44:51 PM
it's fluff and it doesn't affect the main story.

I hope you're right, but I already see a cynical erosion of at least our perception in that regard...

The Sea God story then, I'm used to calling it an arc. My complaints are the same as most of those who don't like the side story.

This is what I'm talking about. I made the point because an "Arc" in Berserk is typically 80-100+ episodes, the exception being the Black Swordsman Arc, and this is important because that's a huge and varied amount of story that something like the Sea God is only a small part of (the beginning of the Elf Island Chapter of the Fantasia Arc) and shouldn't be compared to an Arc's worth of plotting.

More to the point, what part of it is a "side story" or what's side material in general? Is the assassination of Julius a side story? Is the entire Golden Age arc flashback a side story? By such rigid standards it's not strictly the Black Swordsman story we started with, resumed, and continue now (it sure enriches it though, huh =). So, aside from the fact that pretty much any part of Guts' adventures is by default the main story (whether he's fighting Zodd, a tree, or a Sea God), what in the relatively small Sea God portion is not of consequence? Guts' time on the ship developing relationships with his companions? Guts' continuing struggle with the beast armor and the appearance of the superior being/moonlight boy during the battle? Casca's and Guts' interactions in the above scenarios (!)? Isma's introduction to the main cast? A battle with an old god establishing this new world where Guts was pretty much going to sacrifice himself only to be saved by his reliable companions/family? Seems like a lot of things of significance throughout that small 20-some episode sampling, which also deals directly or indirectly with a Sea God, rather than a "side story." Feel free not to enjoy it (though you also said you liked it), but I wouldn't allow the dumb complaints of "most of those who don't like the side story" to represent your opinion, let alone curate what's objectively important or not in the series.

So yeah, I hope we're not too quick to write off anything we don't immediately think deeply on as fluff, or that fluff merchandise has us judging the whole series by such standards.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Hitoshura on June 05, 2017, 08:33:00 AM
A Books Kinokuniya poster shows the novel cover on the bottom right.
(http://i.imgur.com/FvXrUAw.jpg)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 05, 2017, 08:54:04 AM
Thanks Hitoshura. The cover looks Ok to me, though it's hard to tell from such a tiny picture.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 05, 2017, 10:20:09 AM
They seem to have put the horrible new edges on that too... The cover looks interesting though. Even though we can see it that much as Aaz inted out. Thx for posting that.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on June 05, 2017, 02:20:10 PM
Thanks Hitoshura. The cover looks Ok to me, though it's hard to tell from such a tiny picture.
They seem to have put the horrible new edges on that too... The cover looks interesting though. Even though we can see it that much as Aaz inted out. Thx for posting that.

The cover looks pretty cool, and is pretty cool since it's a full color painting of what, I assume, is what Grunbeld looked like when he was a human being. It would fit right in with the manga volumes too... which is exactly what I don't like about it. Too close for comfort. Like, is this supposed to be a canon part of the series? Is Berserk now a two author work? (http://www.skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif) I certainly don't think so, but this will confuse the issue and blur the lines to more casual observers, which seems to be the aim. :miura:

Of course, considering that "put yourself in the world of Berserk" promotion, the covers don't seem to be sacrosanct anymore. My reaction to all this is pretty much the picture of that dude put on the cover of volume 39. ":isidro:" :ganishka:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on June 05, 2017, 02:33:56 PM
The inclusion of the borders strikes me as an attempt to lend this an air of legitimacy alongside the volumes, which is more than a little annoying.

The young Grunby cover is neat, and will probably remain the coolest part of this whole endeavor.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 05, 2017, 02:56:21 PM

The young Grunby cover is neat, and will probably remain the coolest part of this whole endeavor.

You think we could order the cover only?  :ganishka:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Kaladin on June 05, 2017, 10:21:31 PM
Seems to be in the same boat as the guidebook, the cover is the best part and is enough reason to buy it.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 14, 2017, 02:13:26 PM
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOBK-2091535

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on June 14, 2017, 04:14:46 PM
I think I'd rather buy a second copy of volume 38 to show my support instead.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 14, 2017, 04:30:54 PM
I think I'd rather buy a second copy of volume 38 to show my support instead.
Well, at this point:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/NEOBK-2091534
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Mangetsu on June 15, 2017, 08:31:06 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCUwqhYUwAAomzg.jpg)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Kaladin on June 15, 2017, 09:54:39 AM
Grunbeld's Helmet looks soooooo badass  :isidro:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 15, 2017, 10:56:20 AM
I'm sooo tempted to get that damn book only for it's cover! But I think I'll refrain myself and got vol 39 only with the new episode. I wouldn't be able to read it anyway. :serpico:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Tabris on June 15, 2017, 01:06:30 PM
As apprehensive of the light novel, I'm still pretty intrigued about it. At least the cover is cool if anything.

Also, volume 39 if there's any changes (pages removed, added, changed etc). Looks friggin beautiful though.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Hitoshura on June 20, 2017, 09:19:28 AM
Direct scan.
(http://i.imgur.com/9AIG3VW.jpg)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Mangetsu on June 22, 2017, 05:28:50 PM
Seems to be the first 2 pages of the novel http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/trial.html

One of the illustrations and a small description about the content in japanese

https://ddnavi.com/news/383536/a/

(https://ddnavi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/0ccd126b93fcbd8125d7502a4a040b9a.jpg)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Kaladin on June 22, 2017, 11:08:44 PM
Nice Catch!

Young grunbeld is one sexy bastard.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on June 22, 2017, 11:35:15 PM
Seems to be the first 2 pages of the novel http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/trial.html

One of the illustrations and a small description about the content in japanese

https://ddnavi.com/news/383536/a/

(https://ddnavi.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/0ccd126b93fcbd8125d7502a4a040b9a.jpg)

This would have been great in the manga... :sad:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Skeleton on June 23, 2017, 02:42:34 AM
This would have been great in the manga... :sad:

Agreed.  :sad:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on June 23, 2017, 03:17:39 AM
If this really is a "fully original story by Makoto Fukami" and it's supposed to be canon...  I don't think I even wanna fucking know about it.   :rickert:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Femto96 on June 23, 2017, 05:38:24 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/aoimarumaru/status/878037915720220672

Apparently there's going to be a new Berserk announcement next month on the 16th. What do you think it could be? 

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Demon Knight on June 23, 2017, 06:42:06 AM
I hope it's not SE3 of the terrible anime...
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Kaladin on June 23, 2017, 07:31:15 AM
If this really is a "fully original story by Makoto Fukami" and it's supposed to be canon...  I don't think I even wanna fucking know about it.   :rickert:

Is this the same writer that did psycho pass? that series is fucking horrible, hopefully it's someone different.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aoimarumaru/status/878037915720220672

Apparently there's going to be a new Berserk announcement next month on the 16th. What do you think it could be? 



Probably another anime, what else could it be? I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Femto96 on June 23, 2017, 07:55:22 AM


Probably another anime, what else could it be? I hope I'm wrong.


Yeah most likely, or maybe it's a new novel for another character?
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Kaladin on June 23, 2017, 08:56:31 AM
Yeah most likely, or maybe it's a new novel for another character?

To be honest with you, I'd prefer to see these stories in the manga told by Miura himself, i don't want this novel thing to continue. Even though Miura is probably giving them direction, i still don't like the idea of someone other than him writing about these characters.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2017, 09:57:22 AM
If this really is a "fully original story by Makoto Fukami" and it's supposed to be canon...  I don't think I even wanna fucking know about it.   :rickert:

It has already been established that it is an original story by Makoto Fukami. There is no doubt about it. And given that Miura is illustrating it, I find it hard to dismiss the idea that it is canon.

https://mobile.twitter.com/aoimarumaru/status/878037915720220672

Apparently there's going to be a new Berserk announcement next month on the 16th.

Are you sure about that? This woman just says she got the Berserk promotional newspaper this morning. Then adds she'll have to read it.
Then she greets her followers. Then says there might be good news next month. Then wishes them a good day.

It's not clear that the news she mentioned is Berserk-related (might be about her own affairs). The newspaper page she posted doesn't mention anything about it.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Mangetsu on June 23, 2017, 01:43:17 PM
These are the illustrations from the novel. http://imgur.com/a/xUXkB

Credits go to Ryu Osaka
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Tabris on June 23, 2017, 01:53:23 PM
Well the illustrations are cool as fuck at least.

Hopefully the writing matches it. I for one, dig Psycho Pass for the most part. But it doesn't come close to Miura. I can't help but feel there'll be a compromise in story quality for this. I very much want to be wrong here but I just don't see why Miura didn't do it in the manga when the time was right.

Or maybe he intended this all along? I kind've doubt it but there must be some reason for this. Either way, I'm sure I'll enjoy the novel and will be happy to have it in my hands eventually. But it's likely still going to be a let down in comparison to a solid episode or so of Miura's manga style.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on June 23, 2017, 02:00:39 PM
It has already been established that it is an original story by Makoto Fukami. There is no doubt about it. And given that Miura is illustrating it, I find it hard to dismiss the idea that it is canon.

It wasn't that I was doubting it, but voicing my disgust at the official backstory of a character actually being written by some hack anime writer.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2017, 02:38:14 PM
The illustrations are neat, though of course I would have preferred this to be depicted in the manga. It remains to be seen whether the novel format brought any additional depth to this back story.

It wasn't that I was doubting it, but voicing my disgust at the official backstory of a character actually being written by some hack anime writer.

Yeah, well, we did that in April already, but sure, I understand.
Only time will tell if that was a one-time thing or if there's more to come.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 23, 2017, 02:46:11 PM
I'm still tempted to get it just to be able to hold the illustrations in my hands but I'll probably wait, for this is not a priority for me at the moment. Who knows, we might get good review of that book...  :schierke: (I hope at least, it'd be the only positive thing about the book other then the illustrations.)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Eluvei on June 23, 2017, 03:02:53 PM
Sucks that it's in this context, but those are my favorite illustrations Miura has produced in a long time. So beautiful.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 23, 2017, 03:58:02 PM
The artworks are absolutely magnificent. I'm glad to have ordered a copy along with my volume 39 and Young Animal.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 23, 2017, 03:59:26 PM
The artworks are absolutely magnificent. Glad I ordered a copy along with my volume 39 and Young Animal.

Damn you! I almost ordered the three of them. I bailed and got only the young animal and volume 39.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: The Beast of Darkness on June 23, 2017, 04:16:42 PM
Damn you! I almost ordered the three of them. I bailed and got only the young animal and volume 39.

And now you're regretting.  :iva:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2017, 04:20:52 PM
And now you're regretting.  :iva:

On the other hand, he's already seen the pictures and at least he isn't encouraging them to make more of these books.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 23, 2017, 04:32:37 PM
On the other hand, he's already seen the pictures and at least he isn't encouraging them to make more of these books.

And now you're regretting.  :iva:

You both have a point, but I'm leaning more towards Aaz point since like he said, I've seen them already thx to Ryu Osaka and Mangetsu's post! Still... they won't be in my hands and I refuse to print them for the sake of having them.  :guts:

It won't be the first time I'd like to have Berserk illustrations that are not in the manga and that I can't get my hands on.  :sad:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on June 23, 2017, 05:56:06 PM
The illustrations are awesome indeed; pretty much all big, iconic glamour shots reserved for important moments, and kind of a like a highlight reel from some bizarro alternate version of Berserk with Grunbeld as the main character. Weird, but cool, if not for...

And given that Miura is illustrating it, I find it hard to dismiss the idea that it is canon.

(http://www.skullknight.net/images/gutsbarf.gif)

No. NO! I REFUSE TO ACCEPT IT!! :mozgus:

Hey, he helped with the animes and stuff, doesn't mean their changes are canon... this is an argument, right? :judo:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 23, 2017, 06:36:35 PM
Hey, he helped with the animes and stuff, doesn't mean their changes are canon... this is an argument, right? :judo:

It's the argument I try to make in my mind, along with "Oh, well the Dreamcast game was supposed to be canon but in the end it wasn't really" and "Miura wrote Charles' story for the PS2 game but it wasn't meant to be canon".
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Femto96 on June 23, 2017, 09:04:53 PM


Are you sure about that? This woman just says she got the Berserk promotional newspaper this morning. Then adds she'll have to read it.
Then she greets her followers. Then says there might be good news next month. Then wishes them a good day.

It's not clear that the news she mentioned is Berserk-related (might be about her own affairs). The newspaper page she posted doesn't mention anything about it.

No sorry, I'm not.  It got posted on Reddit as well so I thought it might have been true but I guess not.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Mangetsu on June 23, 2017, 09:34:16 PM
Sucks that it's in this context, but those are my favorite illustrations Miura has produced in a long time. So beautiful.

I agree man. I love the raw hatching. It's looks dirty, but in a very good way. The drawn horses look so good
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on June 23, 2017, 10:52:15 PM
These are the illustrations from the novel. http://imgur.com/a/xUXkB

Credits go to Ryu Osaka

Love his chariot, I'd hate to be chased by that sight  :magni:. as implied by Mule, Grunbeld's beherit seems to have been activated by his mortal wounds on the battlefield, although I didn't expect Grunbeld's sacrifice to be a female friend. In the last image Grunbeld, also seems to be wreaking vengeance against his comrade after sacrificing the girl, and the female knight in the other three pictures appears to be dead or unconscious, makes me wonder what enmity has torn these characters apart. I do hope Miura doesn't gloss over any of this when Grunbeld's past is revealed in the manga.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: RaffoBaffo on June 23, 2017, 11:15:21 PM
Love his chariot, I'd hate to be chased by that sight  :magni:. as implied by Mule, Grunbeld's beherit seems to have been activated by his mortal wounds on the battlefield, although I didn't expect Grunbeld's sacrifice to be a female friend. In the last image Grunbeld, also seems to be wreaking vengeance against his comrade after sacrificing the girl, and the female knight in the other three pictures appears to be dead or unconscious, makes me wonder what enmity has torn these characters apart. I do hope Miura doesn't gloss over any of this when Grunbeld's past is revealed in the manga.
Actually I think the girl died, and he sacrificed the other two.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Cyrus Jong on June 24, 2017, 01:04:06 AM
Looking at these illustrations almost makes me forget my trepidation for the book. Almost. The illustrations are great, and it's fun to try and imagine what the story surrounding them could be. But I'm quite certain they're the best thing about it, and I'm still disappointed that this all has to be revealed to us in a novel written by a guy whose work so far has only filled me with white frothing rage. Best I can hope for is that it won't suck balls and that Miura will incorporate the story (or at least what worked in it, or what he envisioned it would be like) into the manga when the time is right. Or that he'll just ignore it and do his own thing, changing Grunbeld's history completely in the process. Either way, this had better be the last Berserk novel we see, as well as the definitive end for this merchandising push that's by and large only produced trash.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Skeleton on June 24, 2017, 02:38:39 AM
I love Miura's illustrations, especially the walrus knights (talk about a Northern country!) and the Nordic designs incorporated into the clothes/armor of Grunbeld's friends.

Even though I agree an episode in the manga would've been better, I appreciate that we can infer the backstory solely from the illustrations without having to read the novel. The illustrations taken together are almost like a small episode itself, one Miura created outside the main story to satisfy our backstory curiosity. It's not preferable, but thinking of it like that makes it palatable to me.

But then again, I felt the backstory information we got in the manga was sufficient.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Smith on June 24, 2017, 01:44:57 PM
I am not sure why, but inferring from the illustration, Grunbeld seem to be Guts in another parallel universe where he was chosen to be the one to do the sacrifice instead.


The panel where she hold the dying girl kind of resemblance the 13th volume cover of Berserk.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Lord Skanderbeg on June 24, 2017, 03:00:59 PM
Why is everybody so butthurt ? Anything Berserk related is gold.Also Grunbeld seems a very cool guy. He is like the "Apostle Guts". I hope he will play an important role in the main storyline too.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Demon Knight on June 24, 2017, 06:07:55 PM
Since Grunbeld is my favorite apostle. I pretty much would like to read this novel... even if it's not written by Miura but still would like to read it
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Menosgade on June 24, 2017, 08:16:19 PM
Looking at these illustrations almost makes me forget my trepidation for the book. Almost. The illustrations are great, and it's fun to try and imagine what the story surrounding them could be. But I'm quite certain they're the best thing about it, and I'm still disappointed that this all has to be revealed to us in a novel written by a guy whose work so far has only filled me with white frothing rage. Best I can hope for is that it won't suck balls and that Miura will incorporate the story (or at least what worked in it, or what he envisioned it would be like) into the manga when the time is right. Or that he'll just ignore it and do his own thing, changing Grunbeld's history completely in the process. Either way, this had better be the last Berserk novel we see, as well as the definitive end for this merchandising push that's by and large only produced trash.

I agree with not having more, but I guess this won't really be incorporated in the main story. Maybe we could see some reference to the story developed in the novel, but not really seeing it being "changed". Grunbeld is an important apostle in Femto's army now, the past doesn't change his role today. Since he made the sacrifice, we can assume he doesn't really have something important to go back to. The pact is made :idea:

Why is everybody so butthurt ? Anything Berserk related is gold.

Well personally I can't say these illustrations aren't exciting. They're pretty damn good. However, it's not up to the illustrator, Miura, also author to Berserk, to write the novel, as it wasn't to consult/direct our recent Berserk anime. And, unfortunately, the anime's head writer is also this novel's writer, justifying our precaution. So not many people arround here will agree with "Anything Berserk related is gold". Also, mind your manners.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NightCrawler on June 24, 2017, 09:12:28 PM
I just saw the illustrations and didn't read any post after it, and even though they're beautiful, i find all of this quite sad.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on June 26, 2017, 03:53:42 PM
Not really spoiling much here, but but the first four of the God Hand members are mentioned by name when Grunbelds beherit summons them. DUN DUN DUUUN
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on June 26, 2017, 04:30:14 PM
Not really spoiling much here, but but the first four of the God Hand members are mentioned by name when Grunbelds beherit summons them. DUN DUN DUUUN

Neat. It's where I expected this to have taken place in the general timeline of Berserk (Within the past 216 years).
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: GORDOL on June 26, 2017, 11:45:41 PM
Female soldier friend is called Sigur(has feelings for Grunbeld), black-haired girl is Benedict and male soldier friend is Edvard(has feelings for Sigur).

Basically:

Edvard is encouraged by their jealous king and the Tudor general to betray Grunbeld, this throws their family(the girls) in danger. Grunbeld finds himself in mortal danger when the Beherit activates with his blood. The first 4 God Hand appear and he sacrifices his friends(they were willingly sacrificed). The apostle Grunbeld eats Edvard, burns the Tudor general to ashes and then goes after his king.

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on June 27, 2017, 12:01:02 AM
Female soldier friend is called Sigur(has feelings for Grunbeld), black-haired girl is Benedict and male soldier friend is Edvard(has feelings for Sigur).

Basically:

Edvard is encouraged by their jealous king and the Tudor general to betray Grunbeld, this throws their family(the girls) in danger. Grunbeld finds himself in mortal danger when the Beherit activates with his blood. The first 4 God Hand appear and he sacrifices his friends(they were willingly sacrificed). The apostle Grunbeld eats Edvard, burns the Tudor general to ashes and then goes after his king.


Thank you. Podcast prophecy fulfilled.  :badbone:

Also a few things seem off about the description here. It's unclear to me whether you copied this summary from elsewhere, or you read it and summarized the book yourself (in which case, bravo!) -- I just hope Fukami himself didn't get this stuff wrong...

* Beherits don't activate with blood. They activate when their owner is at their most desperate moment, responding to "the crying/wailing of the soul." Blood is often present on the Beherit incidentally, but there are instances shown where no blood is present and it activates anyway (namely, the Count).

* Beherit-apostle aside, calling something a "willing sacrifice" is anomalous, to say the least.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: GORDOL on June 27, 2017, 02:10:53 AM
Thank you. Podcast prophecy fulfilled.  :badbone:

Also a few things seem off about the description here. It's unclear to me whether you copied this summary from elsewhere, or you read it and summarized the book yourself (in which case, bravo!) -- I just hope Fukami himself didn't get this stuff wrong...

* Beherits don't activate with blood. They activate when their owner is at their most desperate moment, responding to "the crying/wailing of the soul." Blood is often present on the Beherit incidentally, but there are instances shown where no blood is present and it activates anyway (namely, the Count).

* Beherit-apostle aside, calling something a "willing sacrifice" is anomalous, to say the least.

Found 2 spoiler sets and combined them(that's why I edited for a more accurate version). Regarding the blood: it's the way it was written(グルンベルド自身も命の危機にさらされた時にグルンベルドの血でベヘリットが発動。). On the sacrifice portion I guess Grunbeld didn't want to sacrifice his family initially but they saw it as the only way out of the dire situation and convinced him to do the deed.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on June 27, 2017, 02:21:24 AM
Regarding the blood: it's the way it was written(グルンベルド自身も命の危機にさらされた時にグルンベルドの血でベヘリットが発動。). On the sacrifice portion I guess Grunbeld didn't want to sacrifice his family initially but they saw it as the only way out of the dire situation and convinced him to do the deed.

If this is true, this is highly inconsistent with the way things work in the series.  The sacrifice just doesn't work this way.  Not a good sign....
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on June 27, 2017, 02:30:58 AM
Found 2 spoiler sets and combined them(that's why I edited for a more accurate version). Regarding the blood: it's the way it was written(グルンベルド自身も命の危機にさらされた時にグルンベルドの血でベヘリットが発動。).

Whew, crisis averted then. It sounds like the summarizer simply put emphasis on the wrong thing. That text says he was bloody AND dying,  which is consistent with  how Beherits function.

Would you mind posting the full Japanese text summary, for posterity?

Quote
On the sacrifice portion I guess Grunbeld didn't want to sacrifice his family initially but they saw it as the only way out of the dire situation and convinced him to do the deed.

Grunbeld begrudgingly became an apostle in order to exact some righteous revenge? That's not very evil, particularly if the sacrificed were "willing." Something is off here... And the "family" are the ... Girls, you said? If they were sacrificed, then why is Sigur's body visible on the page where Grunbeld is an apostle? It'd have been taken by the Vortex upon her death.

I'm still willing to bet the original summarizer is simply off the mark here on the details, but it's an unpleasant feeling.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: GORDOL on June 27, 2017, 02:40:09 AM
グルンベルドを嫌う(嫉妬している)自国の公王と敵であるチューダーの将軍に唆されたグルンベルドの親友に裏切られてグルンベルドの身内が危機にされされます。
グルンベルド自身も命の危機にさらされた時にグルンベルドの血でベヘリットが発動。
四人のゴッドハンドが降臨し、グルンベルドは身内を生贄に捧げます。(身内もそれを望んでいた為)
転生したグルンベルドは裏切った親友を食らい、チューダーの将軍を焼き尽くし、公王の元へ…。

It didn't make much sense to me but then I found the character names and that Sigur liked Grunbeld and Edvard liked Sigur. The thing is this summary uses plural for his friends but the images shows him holding the black-haired girl with the Beherit activated and then his apostle form towering over Edvard and downed Sigur. We will know soon.

EDIT: found more spoilers and more in-depth character descriptions. Still doesn't answer how the sacrifice went.

Characters:
グラント大公国

グルンベルド・アールクヴィスト: 主人公 炎竜騎士団の団長

父は早くに戦死

オイフェミア・アールクヴィスト:

グルンベルド・アールクヴィストの母:元名門貴族で北方海洋狩猟民族出身でチェダー兵に殺された。

キルステン: 齢60のグラント大公国の大将軍

大柄の白髪で肩幅も広く首も太い顔中に戦傷があり身が細い

ホーコン: グラント大公国の大公

エドヴァルド: グラント大公国 大公の息子で炎竜騎士団の福団長

フルド: エドヴァルドの母、公妃

シグル: ヨハンセン家の娘で炎竜騎士団、炎竜重装歩兵団の騎士団長

ルドヴィック: 銀狼 ベネディクトと何時もともにいる狼

ベネディクテ: 盲目の巫女(火竜の巫女)

マテウシュ: 影手の一党のリーダー(グラント大公国の隠密・暗殺者)


チューダー軍

アベカシス: チューダー軍の将軍

Story spoilers:

始まりは、島国のグラント大公国の首都、ノルドキャピティで

女性の惨殺死体が衛兵に発見されたところから物語が始まっていきます。

死体は3体あり、すべて美人ばかり・・・

大将軍のキルステンはこう推測する

「わしの勘さえ確かならば、この犯人は高貴な人物よ」と


話は14年前までさかのぼる

グルンベルドが14歳の少年の時

喧嘩の後に森で一人の少女と銀色の狼とと出会い

盲目の少女(ベネディクテ)から火竜と
呼ばれるようになり森を抜けると人影はなかった。

「グルンベルド」の画像検索結果
それから数日後、
チューダー帝国にグルンベルドの住む村が占領され

その時にグルンベルドの母は
勇敢に立ち向かい殺害された。

捕虜収容所に送られたグルンベルドは
そこで、エドヴァルド、シグルと出会う

4年の歳月がたち収容所の
軍事訓練で体調3メートルのトラと戦うことになった3人

戦いの場に、グリンベルドの
愛用の武器となる人が持てるような大きさではない戦槌を手にし

トラをその戦槌で砕いた腹の中から
ベヘリットを手に入れる事となる。

それと同時にグラント公国の
キルステンの軍によってチューダー軍から解放された。

4年後にはグルンベルドは
騎士となり十年にわありチューダー軍と渡り合ってきた

その後グルンベルドは
グラント公国とチューダー軍の策略にはまり

挟み撃ちにあい死に至る寸前に
ベヘリットにより召喚されゴット・ハンドの4人にあい

生贄をささげ、人なざる者となり
グラント公国内のチューダーの拠点をすべて焼き尽くし

火竜が国を救ったと、おとぎ話として語り継がれた

グルンベルドは巫女の言葉どうり
光の鷹を探すためミッドランドを旅していた。

So:
-Black-haired girl is blind and the maiden of the fire dragon
-Grunbeld and friends were captured by the Tudor army and made prisoners
-Grunbeld finds his Beherit inside the beast he killed in that picture
-Grunbeld returns to his country, becomes apostle and liberates the country in his fire dragon form becoming a legend.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 27, 2017, 06:55:34 PM
Haven't had time to really check the summaries Gordol posted, however I have received the book and for info it's 182 pages long (not counting the superfluous stuff) and is indeed a light novel (which wasn't 100% sure given how they've been advertising it).

There is also one more illustration than what has been posted so far, bringing the total to 10 plus the cover. I'm not going to post a picture of the drawing, but it depicts Benedikte (the proper spelling for the girl's name) dressed in a light robe and performing a ritual/dance of some kind.

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 27, 2017, 08:35:48 PM
Neat! Thanks for the updates Aaz! I don't have to say it again but I'll still do; it's always appreciated!  :ubik:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: llafnwod on June 27, 2017, 09:01:55 PM
It has already been established that it is an original story by Makoto Fukami. There is no doubt about it. And given that Miura is illustrating it, I find it hard to dismiss the idea that it is canon.

As depressing as the thought is, I'm trying to imagine what the novel being "canon" would even mean in terms of the manga.

"Guts! You and I are not so different, which you'd know if you'd read BERSERK®: The Flame Dragon Knight, available now at CDJapan and Amazon.co.jp!"

-Grunbeld returns to his country, becomes apostle and liberates the country in his fire dragon form becoming a legend.

This is interesting. Something I've wondered about the Berserk world is how the existence of apostles wasn't more well known before the eclipse; given how many legends have grown around monsters in our own world, one would think even a handful of witnesses/survivors of transformed apostles would be enough to get the word out and people wouldn't be so surprised to encounter someone like Wyald or Zodd.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 27, 2017, 09:07:34 PM
As depressing as the thought is, I'm trying to imagine what the novel being "canon" would even mean in terms of the manga.

"Guts! You and I are not so different, which you'd know if you'd read BERSERK®: The Flame Dragon Knight, available now at CDJapan and Amazon.co.jp!"

Come on, let's not exaggerate things.

Something I've wondered about the Berserk world is how the existence of apostles wasn't more well known before the eclipse; given how many legends have grown around monsters in our own world, one would think even a handful of witnesses/survivors of transformed apostles would be enough to get the word out and people wouldn't be so surprised to encounter someone like Wyald or Zodd.

Well it's not like there aren't any tales of monsters (and other fantasy creatures such as elves) in Berserk, that much is established early on (for example when Zodd is introduced in volume 5). It's just that they aren't that common in the more populated areas.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Hitoshura on June 27, 2017, 09:14:24 PM
Here's the missing page that Aazelh was talking about.

http://imgur.com/Wm0HpAc

Source: Ryu Osaka
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: llafnwod on June 27, 2017, 09:26:39 PM
Well it's not like there aren't any tales of monsters (and other fantasy creatures such as elves) in Berserk, that much is established early on (for example when Zodd is introduced in volume 5). It's just that they aren't that common in the more populated areas.

That's true, but I think it supports my point. Guts' visceral (hehe) reaction to Zodd's transformation isn't just fear (already uncommon for him), but the feeling that such a thing is impossible. That's an understandable reaction for someone living in our world, where beings like that really are just stories, but in Berserk's world, with folks like Grunbeld around and (apparently, according to this summary) well-known, one would think Judeau would just be like "Yeah, I mean, there's a knight in the North who literally turns into a fire-breathing dragon".

Godot's reaction to the order to make a sword capable of killing a dragon wasn't to make a practical, excellent sword like his contemporaries, it was to make a colossal thing impossible to wield for a human - a fantastic weapon for a fantastic opponent. Guts picks it up when nothing else will do, and uses a sword that shouldn't be wieldable against enemies that shouldn't exist.

That's my feeling, anyway. It doesn't really bother me, but I think it's fun to muse on.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 27, 2017, 09:41:58 PM
(apparently, according to this summary)

It seems to me that your entire train of thought is based on an interpretation (the fact Grunbeld showed himself in his apostle form to tons of people who lived to tell about it) that I think should be taken with a grain of salt. I believe the wiser course of action is to not upend what had been established until now before we get more details. And even then, really, this remains a side-story from a third party, so whatever discrepancies it might contain should be viewed with skepticism in my opinion.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: AlexLastres on June 28, 2017, 02:15:58 PM
http://imgur.com/a/8hf8K

Made some HQ scans of the illustrations. Enjoy  :guts:
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on June 28, 2017, 02:43:53 PM
really, this remains a side-story from a third party, so whatever discrepancies it might contain should be viewed with skepticism in my opinion.

Now you're talkin'. :guts:

It's the Berserk EU, folks! Let's deal with it... by putting it over there somewhere. No, not there. In that corner. Behind those boxes. But if we have to acknowledge it, however it fits in the bigger picture, I do hope it's at least good. I didn't imagine that Grunbeld had made his name so prominently after his transformation, but I suppose it makes sense. I figured like others he was already famous for his heroics, and perhaps that's still the case, and allegedly fell in battle (at least that's what I recall from Mule's encounter with him). Kinda lame if you couldn't even make your name pre-Apostle, Grunny. :daiba:

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: volatilecurry on June 28, 2017, 06:09:42 PM
I don't mind the existence of this thing as much as a lot of others seem to. I'm personally not interested in reading the back story of every one of the main apostles within the manga, I'd kind of prefer that stuff be off to the side and only consumed if/when you choose to do so. That said, if this thing is as polarizing as it sounds (sacrifices offering themselves up? What?) then that'll be very annoying. I'm eagerly awaiting a more thorough summary once those capable have the chance to put the time into this thing.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on June 28, 2017, 07:31:22 PM
I'm personally not interested in reading the back story of every one of the main apostles within the manga, I'd kind of prefer that stuff be off to the side and only consumed if/when you choose to do so.

I'm eagerly awaiting a more thorough summary once those capable have the chance to put the time into this thing.

I'm not really sure what to make of your opinion. You seem to want to know about the origins of the apostles, but just not in the manga? Why...? Have they been obtrusive to you in the past? I think that Miura's kind of a master at compressed storytelling when he puts his mind, using just a few panels (Rochine), a few pages at most (Count, Ganishka) to convey what could have been volumes of information. There's no reason he can't, and won't still, do that in the manga moving forward.

If I'm playing devil's advocate, maybe your concern is that as the story propels forward, with so many apostles still on the stage, the story would be slowed down by a series of flashbacks, so that they'd be executed in a perfunctory manner. Well, I'd just say I don't think there's precedence to have that concern, given how the backstories have been laid out in the past. I think Miura is going to space out his big fights in keeping with these characters.  Novels or not, killing Locus, Grunbeld and Rakshas in the span of a handful of episodes in some cataclysmic fight wouldn't be very satisfying, I don't think.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on June 28, 2017, 07:41:04 PM
Yeah, it's the other way around; I wouldn't want manga material outsourced to third party books, but its not like Miura was going to bog down the manga with novels worth of character biographies anyway (at least not these chatacters =). The best case for something like this is that it's superfluous, supplemental, and we weren't going to get it in the manga anyway, or at least not in such detail. The scary thing about Grunbeld is he's a "live" character and we didn't know if/when/how we would get his backstory or how this affects that. Did Miura already have something in mind? Did he give the author bullet points to follow and final approval because he would be employing those facts at the appropriate point in the manga? Are these then "spoilers," or conversely, are we expected to know it? Would Miura have done more or less on it in the manga if not for the book? How else could the existence of the book influence the manga? It just raises a lot of questions. A book on Wyald: The Enjoyment & Excitement Knight on the other hand, would be more easily embraced for a number of reasons. =)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: jackson_hurley on June 28, 2017, 07:55:53 PM
The scary thing about Grunbeld is he's a "live" character and we didn't know if/when/how we would get his backstory or how this affects that.

A book on Wyald: The Enjoyment & Excitement Knight on the other hand, would be more easily embraced for a number of reasons. =)

Can't argue with that logic.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Oburi on June 28, 2017, 08:11:22 PM
When in doubt, I refer to the rule of thumb.

Always trust in Miura
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Demon Knight on June 28, 2017, 08:51:22 PM
I would really love to know the story of Zodd
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on June 28, 2017, 09:32:41 PM
I would really love to know the story of Zodd

And that's how you would want to read it? In a fucking novel written by some random guy? What a dismal thought.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Griffith on June 28, 2017, 09:47:10 PM
Just wait until this happens:

Quote
"Established! Established! Skull Knight's character has been established. ♪ ヽ(´ ▽ `)/ "

 :magni:

The most riveting part of the book ordeal might be watching Aaz walk this tight rope while occasionally shaking his fists in rage. For his sake, I hope the book isn't too demeaning to the source material. Maybe Miura really did hand over story points the guy had to follow like the new Star Wars EU books. Berserk is just getting too big for us purist types.

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Rupert Sinclair on June 28, 2017, 10:02:13 PM
Maybe Miura really did hand over story points the guy had to follow

This is the really big question to me, are these actually Miura's concepts or is this just Makoto Fukami fan-fiction.  At least if this is just a novelized version of Miura's story we can take the basic facts seriously.  I really wish we had a way of knowing for sure.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Demon Knight on June 29, 2017, 12:15:07 AM
And that's how you would want to read it? In a fucking novel written by some random guy? What a dismal thought.
Who the hell said that.I would like to see it in the manga  written by Miura
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on June 29, 2017, 12:31:58 AM
I would really love to know the story of Zodd
Who the hell said that.I would like to see it in the manga  written by Miura

Alert: You're in the novel thread.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NCHaskew on July 04, 2017, 12:36:14 AM
Out of curiosity, has anyone found a fan translation online? I'd love to actually read the story--i've only seen 11 out of the 167 pages
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on July 04, 2017, 01:12:56 AM
Out of curiosity, has anyone found a fan translation online? I'd love to actually read the story--i've only seen 11 out of the 167 pages

A fan translation of the novel would be pirating the novel. You're just going to have to wait for an official release, or satisfy yourself with the summaries.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NCHaskew on July 04, 2017, 03:49:19 AM
A fan translation of the novel would be pirating the novel. You're just going to have to wait for an official release, or satisfy yourself with the summaries.

That's fair--though a funny thing to hear from someone on a site where people discuss the latest chapters--whereas official release-wise, we're just now getting Volume 38.
Regardless, what do you folks think the odds are of us getting an official release in the US? Light novels seem kind of uncommon here. I don't think Dark Horse has ever done one. Then again, Berserk is apparently their top-seller, so I could see it going either way.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on July 04, 2017, 05:30:22 AM
That's fair--though a funny thing to hear from someone on a site where people discuss the latest chapters--whereas official release-wise, we're just now getting Volume 38.

We actually buy the issues of Young Animal in which Berserk's episodes are prepublished. We have a step by step guide on how to do it, too. What's not funny though is some random dude coming over and asking us to translate a book for him, and then getting pissy when we don't.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NCHaskew on July 04, 2017, 05:46:25 PM
We actually buy the issues of Young Animal in which Berserk's episodes are prepublished. We have a step by step guide on how to do it, too. What's not funny though is some random dude coming over and asking us to translate a book for him, and then getting pissy when we don't.

I apologize if I seemed pissy--I legitimately thought it was an odd thing to hear on the internet. I was unaware that Young Animal did English publications since it looks like it's a local thing. Now that I know, I'd be interested in investing because, like all of you, I love Berserk and want to support the release. If we never get an English release of this book, I imagine I'll invest in the Japanese release, but it would be nice to actual know the story.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on July 04, 2017, 07:39:04 PM
I apologize if I seemed pissy--I legitimately thought it was an odd thing to hear on the internet.

Yeah I can hear that, however we've always promoted the idea that people should support the author of a work if they're going to call themselves fans of it.

I was unaware that Young Animal did English publications since it looks like it's a local thing.

It doesn't, it's in Japanese. We do our own translations on the side as a way to allow discussion (and also because other translations aren't very accurate). It's not perfect, but it works.

If we never get an English release of this book, I imagine I'll invest in the Japanese release, but it would be nice to actual know the story.

That's understandable. No idea whether it will come out stateside or not, but I'm sure an exhaustive summary will emerge eventually (I personally don't have time for it right now, nor much interest). A member called Gordol already posted some information a few days ago.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: NCHaskew on July 04, 2017, 09:51:18 PM
Well, that's awesome! This site is even better than I had hoped. I'm too used to younger anime forums, where everyone's like "go to this manga site!" Glad to see there's one where people actually promote official releases--especially for Berserk.

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I expect the Grunbeld novel to be average at best, but I'm annoyingly a completionist xD I played through Sword of the Berserk to get the full story.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Oburi on July 05, 2017, 12:39:12 PM
Oh, and don't get me wrong, I expect the Grunbeld novel to be average at best, but I'm annoyingly a completionist xD I played through Sword of the Berserk to get the full story.

It's not like it was a bad game. It was pretty awesome for it's time.

Funny I played Sword of the Berserk when first came out in the states in 2000. Technically that was my introduction to Berserk.  I didn't watch the 97 anime until a few years later and for some reason didn't connect the two until a few more years later when I started the manga.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Aazealh on July 05, 2017, 01:22:43 PM
Oh, and don't get me wrong, I expect the Grunbeld novel to be average at best, but I'm annoyingly a completionist xD I played through Sword of the Berserk to get the full story.

Hah, I have three versions of the DC game: Japanese edition, US edition and UK edition (the one I originally played). Like Oburi said, it was actually a great game when it came out, had top notch production value. As far as I'm concerned it is the best merchandise Berserk has ever got, and I'd much prefer to get a remake of it than another Musou turd.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: RaffoBaffo on July 06, 2017, 04:12:36 PM
(https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19748587_10203523065634474_6575685329691793303_n.jpg?oh=1e362d4a96089e7b2c0afc97e84ba8ac&oe=5A107A17)
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: volatilecurry on July 11, 2017, 07:38:31 PM
I'm not really sure what to make of your opinion. You seem to want to know about the origins of the apostles, but just not in the manga? Why...? Have they been obtrusive to you in the past? I think that Miura's kind of a master at compressed storytelling when he puts his mind, using just a few panels (Rochine), a few pages at most (Count, Ganishka) to convey what could have been volumes of information. There's no reason he can't, and won't still, do that in the manga moving forward.

If I'm playing devil's advocate, maybe your concern is that as the story propels forward, with so many apostles still on the stage, the story would be slowed down by a series of flashbacks, so that they'd be executed in a perfunctory manner. Well, I'd just say I don't think there's precedence to have that concern, given how the backstories have been laid out in the past. I think Miura is going to space out his big fights in keeping with these characters.  Novels or not, killing Locus, Grunbeld and Rakshas in the span of a handful of episodes in some cataclysmic fight wouldn't be very satisfying, I don't think.

Maybe I should have elaborated a bit more in my original post. Back stories haven't been obtrusive in the past and while I agree that the "back story gauntlet" that you describe in your second paragraph would be less than desirable, I don't think Miura is going to disappoint us now. He has yet to disappoint me on just about anything as of yet.

What I meant to say is; the length of the novel and amount of detail that (I assume, having not read it) it goes into are beyond the scope of what I'd like to see in the manga for most characters. For Skull Knight or Isidro or someone vital to the cast, I'll gladly take an entire episode (or two or three?!) dedicated to them -- if Miura has that much to say about them, that is. But I do not want to see that much for Grunbeld, Locus, Irvine, etc. A brief flashback of a few pages or even just a couple of text bubbles that explain where they come from is enough for most of them in my opinion. From there, if you want more, I think a novel or a one-shot about the character that stands beside the manga is appropriate. American comics do this all the time and it's not an issue there. This isn't all that typical in manga but I personally don't have a problem with the practice in general.

What I do take issue with is if said side material contradicts the source material or if it opens up plot holes that the source material doesn't address. If Miura gave the author of the novel an outline of what the story is about, and then checked it for consistency (or at least had someone check it for him) then this shouldn't be an issue. I don't know if that's the case with this novel, and based on the summary provided above, I'm a bit worried that the author had more free reign than we might like... But again, I'll wait until have a more detailed summary before jumping to conclusions.

The ideal scenario may lie somewhere in between -- with the manga giving us the vital bits of the back story and then letting the character really shine in their own stand alone tale that goes beyond the scope of what should have been included in the manga. Think "The History of Trunks" from Dragon Ball Z. Trunks was a main character for a rather long story arc (often separated into two arcs, actually) and was massively influential to the story of that time. His back story was elaborated on within the original series, but he was given even more back story in his own standalone movie. Similarly, "Bardock - Father of Goku" was a standalone movie that gave a full back story on a character that wasn't originally mentioned in the manga, but was later referenced briefly after the success of the movie. Maybe Berserk would benefit most from a scenario like one of these.

All that being said, I echo the concern that others have had about merchandising the series too much at the expense of the manga. If Skull Knight's story isn't explained in the manga at all (beyond the little bits we have so far) and is instead sold as a standalone novel or something written by a third party, then I wouldn't be too happy and I think the manga would suffer as a result of it.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on July 12, 2017, 01:21:41 AM
What I meant to say is; the length of the novel and amount of detail that (I assume, having not read it) it goes into are beyond the scope of what I'd like to see in the manga for most characters.

Well, we were never going to get that amount of detail, because that's not how Miura writes. And even though the format of a novel affords more room to develop that story, I don't personally care what someone other than Miura has to say about that world. Even if this does bear the official license, it will never amount to more than a novelty, excuse the pun.

Quote
For Skull Knight or Isidro or someone vital to the cast, I'll gladly take an entire episode (or two or three?!) dedicated to them -- if Miura has that much to say about them, that is. But I do not want to see that much for Grunbeld, Locus, Irvine, etc. A brief flashback of a few pages or even just a couple of text bubbles that explain where they come from is enough for most of them in my opinion.

We're back to a weird place again -- the presumption that the backstory Miura had originally planned for those characters would feel bloated. It's never been the case before, why would it be different moving forward? This novel exists purely for merchandising reasons. It's unlikely Grunbeld's story was ever going to be excessively long, because there's just no precedent for it. Ganiskha was a far more consequential character, and he got about a half episode. The beherit-apostle's origin was a bit longer, a full episode, give or take, but no complaints from fans for its length that I'm aware of. 

Quote
From there, if you want more, I think a novel or a one-shot about the character that stands beside the manga is appropriate.

Maybe if it didn't spoil the reveal Miura was going to do eventually, at a natural place for the story. But this novel has already taken that possibility away. That's a pretty key factor in people's reception to this thing.

Quote
American comics do this all the time and it's not an issue there.

American comics are a different industry with a dramatically different (shittier) way of telling stories. The characters in US comics exist to serve as ageless, interminable banners for their brands, not to tell a story with a clear beginning and an ending. It's inconsequential what a side novel brings to the table, because those characters have their universes reset every 5 years after being passed between a handful of writers.

Also, light novels do exist for manga. They're not uncommon, and they seem to vary in degrees from controversial to benign.

Quote
What I do take issue with is if said side material contradicts the source material or if it opens up plot holes that the source material doesn't address. If Miura gave the author of the novel an outline of what the story is about, and then checked it for consistency (or at least had someone check it for him) then this shouldn't be an issue. I don't know if that's the case with this novel, and based on the summary provided above, I'm a bit worried that the author had more free reign than we might like... But again, I'll wait until have a more detailed summary before jumping to conclusions.

Miura has taken every opportunity to stand behind this thing, which is particularly striking knowing his lack of dedicated involvement in other recent projects. His name is on the cover, he provided original art (which is awesome), and he praised the "establishment of Grunbeld's story" in the recent YA comment. If he wasn't proud of it, or his involvement was minimal, we'd likely have gotten the simple "please buy the new Berserk thing!" comment that we often saw in relation to the movies.

That being said, we will likely never know the specifics of what transpired between he and the writer. I think there are some safe assumptions though. Miura has been very protective of Berserk, so I have a hard time believing he placed his entire trust in the writer to flesh out Grunbeld's story. He probably had pointers from Miura about the overall thrust. There's also a pretty safe bet about why this thing was created, and thus, how fans should weigh it in their minds. Given the recent animation, it would make sense if this novel was born as a merchandising ploy, using a character that had recently taken the spotlight.

What I can't reconcile throughout this whole thing is what Miura was thinking about the audience at large, the international fans, which he is keenly aware of. It sure seems like an irresponsible merchandising choice, made without much thought for how the overall story of Berserk is assimilated. There's zero guarantee we'll ever get the novel officially translated. So what are we to do, and how are we to treat this thing? It's an uncomfortable place to be for fans. The fact that we've gotten a hastily assembled summary has changed nothing in that regard, as we expected.

Quote
The ideal scenario may lie somewhere in between -- with the manga giving us the vital bits of the back story and then letting the character really shine in their own stand alone tale that goes beyond the scope of what should have been included in the manga.

Again, that sounds less problematic if the novel came out sometime after the origin story's reveal in the manga. That isn't what happened though, so the whole thing has a stigma attached to it. 

Quote
Think "The History of Trunks" from Dragon Ball Z. Trunks was a main character for a rather long story arc (often separated into two arcs, actually) and was massively influential to the story of that time. His back story was elaborated on within the original series, but he was given even more back story in his own standalone movie. Similarly, "Bardock - Father of Goku" was a standalone movie that gave a full back story on a character that wasn't originally mentioned in the manga, but was later referenced briefly after the success of the movie. Maybe Berserk would benefit most from a scenario like one of these.

I don't think there's much to compare between Berserk and Dragon Ball Z.

Quote
If Skull Knight's story isn't explained in the manga at all (beyond the little bits we have so far) and is instead sold as a standalone novel or something written by a third party, then I wouldn't be too happy and I think the manga would suffer as a result of it.

Understatement of the millennium.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: volatilecurry on July 12, 2017, 07:58:46 PM
Miura has taken every opportunity to stand behind this thing, particularly knowing his lack of dedicated involvement in other recent projects. His name is on the cover, he provided original art (which is awesome), and he praised the "establishment of Grunbeld's story" in the recent YA comment. If he wasn't proud of it, or his involvement was minimal, we'd likely have gotten the simple "please buy the new Berserk thing!" comment that we often saw in relation to the movies.

That being said, we will likely never know the specifics of what transpired between he and the writer. I think there are some safe assumptions though. Miura has been very protective of Berserk, so I have a hard time believing he placed his entire trust in the writer to flesh out Grunbeld's story. He probably had pointers from Miura about the overall thrust. There's also a pretty safe bet about why this thing was created, and thus, how fans should weigh it in their minds. Given the recent animation, it would make sense if this novel was born as a merchandising ploy, using a character that had recently taken the spotlight.

What I can't reconcile throughout this whole thing is what Miura was thinking about the audience at large, the international fans, which he is keenly aware of. It sure seems like an irresponsible merchandising choice, made without much thought for how the overall story of Berserk is assimilated. There's zero guarantee we'll ever get the novel officially translated. So what are we to do, and how are we to treat this thing? It's an uncomfortable place to be for fans. The fact that we've gotten a hastily assembled summary has changed nothing in that regard, as we expected.

There's no doubt in my mind that this thing is simply the "merchandising ploy" that you describe. I'd have a hard time believing it's something that Miura personally thought up and planned around. My question is how much of a say Miura has on such things. Could he have outright said "no" to something like this? Depending on the contract in question, at least in other industries, the author of the source material may have little to no say over something this whatsoever. But I don't know the nature of Miura's relationship with the rights holders.

My assumption with the recent anime itself is that he had little involvement in the choosing of the studio or the outcome of the product -- I'd guess that he agreed to have the series animated, signed some paperwork, and enjoyed whatever minimal involvement they allowed him while the suits handled the rest. But how far does something like his reach? Do they need to ask his permission to have light novels made? Or did they approach him and say "We're making this, what material do you have that we can use?", or something to that effect? This may be another thing that we'll simply never know the details of, but I think the answer to these questions is pretty important.

For example; if Miura's permission to make the light novel was required, then that means this project has his blessing up and down. He approved of it to begin with and regardless of how much involvement he had in making it, his stamp of approval is on it. But if his permission was not required and it was happening regardless of what he contributed, then that's a bit of a different story. Sure his name would be on the thing and his stamp of approval would be there, but that stamp of approval may be superficial. He could be totally unhappy about the existence of the thing and the end result, but is forced to put on a happy face and support it openly due to contractual obligations.

I'm just spitballing possible scenarios here. I'm very curious about how all this goes behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on July 13, 2017, 12:55:44 AM
There's no doubt in my mind that this thing is simply the "merchandising ploy" that you describe. I'd have a hard time believing it's something that Miura personally thought up and planned around. My question is how much of a say Miura has on such things. Could he have outright said "no" to something like this? Depending on the contract in question, at least in other industries, the author of the source material may have little to no say over something this whatsoever. But I don't know the nature of Miura's relationship with the rights holders.

We don't know, and likely never will, but I'll go back to what I said earlier: If it was something he didn't give two shits about, he likely wouldn't have contributed as much to it.

Quote
My assumption with the recent anime itself is that he had little involvement in the choosing of the studio or the outcome of the product -- I'd guess that he agreed to have the series animated, signed some paperwork, and enjoyed whatever minimal involvement they allowed him while the suits handled the rest.

I agree in part, but as written, it doesn't align with what we were told about how Studio 4C had to pitch their pilot to Miura, who had rejected other attempts over the years. There's no mention in that little anecdote about having to pitch it to Hakusensha. In that scenario, it's entirely possible that the publisher may have been interested in an animation, but wanted to get Miura's blessing before doing anything. After that point, his involvement is a bit nebulous.

Quote
For example; if Miura's permission to make the light novel was required, then that means this project has his blessing up and down.

That is the assumption that I'm going with.

Quote
He approved of it to begin with and regardless of how much involvement he had in making it, his stamp of approval is on it.

We don't need to surmise this — his illustrations and his name on the cover are a sufficient stamp of approval.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on July 13, 2017, 11:14:00 AM
I'm ambivalent to the idea of Grunbeld becoming an anti hero apostle that saved his people, part of being an apostle is severing your ties to humanity, apostles don't help people. After all, how does Grunbeld feel about flooding his old homeland with hordes of monsters?
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Doc on July 13, 2017, 06:56:05 PM
I'm ambivalent to the idea of Grunbeld becoming an anti hero apostle that saved his people, part of being an apostle is severing your ties to humanity, apostles don't help people. After all, how does Grunbeld feel about flooding his old homeland with hordes of monsters?

Well, like the rest of Griffith's generals, Grunbeld is more morally ambiguous compared to your typical apostle.

Assuming this is an accurate synopsis, of course.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on July 14, 2017, 06:39:50 PM
I'm ambivalent to the idea of Grunbeld becoming an anti hero apostle that saved his people, part of being an apostle is severing your ties to humanity, apostles don't help people. After all, how does Grunbeld feel about flooding his old homeland with hordes of monsters?

The deeper we went with the initial summary that was posted, the less it held up. I wouldn't put too much stock into it, particularly details like this.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: MrFlibble on July 14, 2017, 07:03:20 PM
The deeper we went with the initial summary that was posted, the less it held up. I wouldn't put too much stock into it, particularly details like this.

Indeed, I hope it's fake.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: puella on July 14, 2017, 07:57:30 PM
In my opinion, it's not good to show interest for this novel, unless you want to see it happen again.
It's already selling pretty well. Japanese readers seem to be moderately satisfied with it in general, and many are expecting that more are to come, unfortunately...
Asian people are familiar with this kind of merchandising when movies, manga and the like are successful.

I have the book of course but I decided not to read it. I just checked the end out of curiosity.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Death May Die on July 16, 2017, 01:19:37 PM
Question, I know there was a few illustrations provided with the book. Is it by chance like the manga where there is sometime a illustration poster within it? Because shamelessly I would like to buy the novel if there was.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Walter on July 16, 2017, 01:31:09 PM
Question, I know there was a few illustrations provided with the book. Is it by chance like the manga where there is sometime a illustration poster within it? Because shamelessly I would like to buy the novel if there was.

The illustrations are interspersed throughout the book -- no  posters.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: residentgrigo on July 16, 2017, 06:48:04 PM
Aaz already confirmed my initial question if this is a LN or not, as Fukami wrote wrote such in the past. His confirmation basically killed any last interest for me. A few good LNs do exist (Baccano) but they are ultimately a very cheap way to start a franchise, as the fluffy conversation style plots can easily be turned into manga/anime scripts. Someone would have turned this one into an OVA if the anime didn´t bomb so hard is my guess.

The utterly talentless Makoto Fukami is the much harder strike No.2. I frankly despise him but i will admit that his middling anime work is better than his soft-core manga porn. Amazon.jp reviews even seem to be optimistic enough, with the LN being deemed a breezy yet explicit done-in-one read. One reviewer even called the prose appropriate for elementary school readers, if it wasn´t for all the sex and gore :ganishka: . It´s kinda nice that the spin-off turned out to be harmless in the end!
 I don´t want more, especially if we can´t get Neo Falcon one-of manga by YA´s Shizuya Wazarai or Kouji Mori. Such would get an immediate approval from me, as long as Miura gets proper story credit.
Or a "real" book and Berserk now has its first entry, outside of merch, that doesn´t target (young) adults. An interesting decision, yet this is hardly the first child inappropriate LN and the pachinko machine targets way older people than the manga, so all male markets are now served by YA. Insert Space Balls joke about merch [here].

I can live with the LN being apocryphal, as the mostly dreadful Star Wars EU used to be, or part of canon, even if the 3rd act seems a bit… off, as this is just a random Grunbeld story. His dead friends could be shown or be hinted at in let´s say a dying moment in the manga. The Dreamcast Mandragora had a cameo too for example. We´ll soon see where we will end up regarding spin-offs but Miura brought his A game for the illustrations. These are the best looking Berserk splash pages pages since Vol.34. They certainly lessen the blow.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: m on July 17, 2017, 02:41:58 PM
In my opinion, it's not good to show interest for this novel, unless you want to see it happen again.

I don't think I could agree more with this sentiment, the tricky part is how far to take it. In the end to me it came down to not buying the book at all, even though the illustrations alone were probably worth it. In this instance I ended up deciding that I wouldn't want to contribute sending a message asking for more of these novels. Oh, wait...

It's already selling pretty well.

Perhaps it is too late and the message has already been sent and received.  :sad:

Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: IncantatioN on July 17, 2017, 03:57:54 PM
Yeah m, it's pretty tricky. I wasn't sure myself whether I should buy it or not. I'd be buying it for the art in the cover (of young Grunbeld) and the illustrations within. Can't translate the written text, so there's no incentive when it comes to reading it and if isn't written by Miura then I'm not really interested in the text. Walter raised valid points in his discussion on the previous page. As of now, I'm on the bend whether to own it or not.
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: Nildin on August 17, 2017, 12:17:08 PM
I'm not sure if you can take it as an indicator for an English translation, but it seems that a German translation is possible.

Asked on the German panini forum an official answered, that a release of the novel in Germany is "most likely yes" possible. And they also seem to look into a German version of the new character guidebook. Source: https://www.paninishop.de/forum/index.php?thread/8610-fragen-an-die-redaktion-vol-ii/&postID=1886017#post1886017
Title: Re: Berserk: The Flame Dragon Knight novel
Post by: DreadnoughtDT on August 19, 2017, 11:00:15 AM
I can't deny I'm a little disappointed that this is happening to my favorite corundum-covered dragon, of all Apostles. :/